Here are my own personal indicators of what needs to happen before I am willing to go back into the office or integrate into society in any normal way (in no particular order):

1. Testing needs to be available to anyone who wants it FOR FREE or extremely cheap

2. I can buy all the PPE I need easily and cheaply

3. Disinfectants like Lysol and hand sanitizer are cheap and plentiful

4. Staples like rice and toilet paper are cheap and plentiful

As long as I am not sure if I have had the virus, I cannot obtain PPE to protect myself and my family, and I can't obtain even basic essentials then I am staying right where I am and doing what I am doing. Period.

If Trump (or anyone else) wants to say that the economy is ready to open then prove it to me. If I am paying $50 for 36 rolls of toilet paper (which I just did, including shipping) and I can't buy hand sanitizer or a N95 mask at a reasonable price then it is clear this economy is not ready.

FIREFAUCI

MAGA

Bobodeluxe said:

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FIREFAUCI

MAGA

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You're a hater, Bobo.

tRump can tell Californians that every day at noon they have to pull their pants down around their ankles and spin in a circle......and we are as likely to follow that directive as tRump telling us it is time to open up our economy again. In Newsom We Trust. When we need any sh@it from Fat Ba$tard we'll squeeze his head. He is like the kid on your Little League team that is 0 for 50 at the plate and anoints himself team leader in the dugout.

okaydo said:

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Not a lot of substantial business experience either. Basically Ross and Mnucian, and ?? (Ivanka/Jerrod is nepotism). No one even outside the executive branch. Maybe a Governor? Health expert? Federal reserve type to coordinate monetary policy? NO TV Producers? W-T-F?

I have a hard time thinking that anyone will really pay attention to what this gang comes up with. Right now there are two professional government teams coming up with plans to reopen the country. The first is Cuomo along with his neighboring statements. The second is Newsom in California.

I tend to think that the governors are going to work together to build a sort of shadow interstate government (what you may call a "federal" government in the absence of one, imagine that). That should work out pretty well and give people confidence that a functional government can operate to keep people safe while allowing the economy to restart.

It's a shame that our pre-existing federal government is completely ill-equipped to do so, but there's nothing that can be done about that until the first Tuesday in November.

okaydo said:

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Would you trust any of these idiots to make life and death decisions for you, your spouse, your kids, or your elderly parents? If they are so sure about it being safe to open things up then let them sit in the Mt. Sinai Emergency Room without a mask for 12 hours and then we can talk about opening things up.

BearNIt said:

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okaydo said:

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Would you trust any of these idiots to make life and death decisions for you, your spouse, your kids, or your elderly parents? If they are so sure about it being safe to open things up then let them sit in the Mt. Sinai Emergency Room without a mask for 12 hours and then we can talk about opening things up.

---

Wait, you mean this wasn't another one of those funny Okaydo jokes?!?

Good grief.

Trump was in rare form this afternoon at his briefing: It's all about the blame game. What an ass.

Big C said:

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Trump was in rare form this afternoon at his briefing: It's all about the blame game. What an ass.

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bearister said:

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Who are those four different women? Pretty sure the one on the bottom right is our beloved First Lady...

Internet slams Trump's 'completely unhinged' press conference as president loses control | Raw Story


https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/internet-slams-trumps-completely-unhinged-press-conference-as-president-loses-control/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rawstory.com/2020/04/internet-slams-trumps-completely-unhinged-press-conference-as-president-loses-control/amp/

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I have a hard time thinking that anyone will really pay attention to what this gang comes up with. Right now there are two professional government teams coming up with plans to reopen the country. The first is Cuomo along with his neighboring statements. The second is Newsom in California.

I tend to think that the governors are going to work together to build a sort of shadow interstate government (what you may call a "federal" government in the absence of one, imagine that). That should work out pretty well and give people confidence that a functional government can operate to keep people safe while allowing the economy to restart.

It's a shame that our pre-existing federal government is completely ill-equipped to do so, but there's nothing that can be done about that until the first Tuesday in November.

---

and you forgot Abbot in Texas who is just going to drop the lockdown soon, when he thinks he should.

I'm surprised Newsom is being so aggressive on reopening, but they may reflect the vision of we started lockdowns, and we can be ahead of everyone coming out. I'm wondering if just as there was pressure to be ultra safe when things went south in March, there now is pressure to prove you were right to drop restrictions early.

bearister said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I have a hard time thinking that anyone will really pay attention to what this gang comes up with. Right now there are two professional government teams coming up with plans to reopen the country. The first is Cuomo along with his neighboring statements. The second is Newsom in California.

I tend to think that the governors are going to work together to build a sort of shadow interstate government (what you may call a "federal" government in the absence of one, imagine that). That should work out pretty well and give people confidence that a functional government can operate to keep people safe while allowing the economy to restart.

It's a shame that our pre-existing federal government is completely ill-equipped to do so, but there's nothing that can be done about that until the first Tuesday in November.

---

and you forgot Abbot in Texas who is just going to drop the lockdown soon, when he thinks he should.

I'm surprised Newsom is being so aggressive on reopening, but they may reflect the vision of we started lockdowns, and we can be ahead of everyone coming out. I'm wondering if just as there was pressure to be ultra safe when things went south in March, there now is pressure to prove you were right to drop restrictions early.

---

I don't know why you would think that Newsom being aggressive on announcing a plan to reopen means that he is rushing to reopen. I think it will show that he and the other governors are being strategic and thoughtful about how to reopen and how to communicate to their constituents.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect there will be several gates and that anyone who can WFH will still be WFH through the end of May, if not longer. Giving people enough runway to plan for reintegration is good governance.

Let's see what they announce tomorrow.

" When somebody is president of the United States, the authority is total," he [tRump] said."

Trump on the defensive: A White House coronavirus briefing becomes a campaign rally


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/13/trump-defense-coronavirus-briefing-becomes-campaign-rally/2986422001/
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2986422001?__twitter_impression=true

Was this foreshadowing or what:

Unit2Sucks said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I have a hard time thinking that anyone will really pay attention to what this gang comes up with. Right now there are two professional government teams coming up with plans to reopen the country. The first is Cuomo along with his neighboring statements. The second is Newsom in California.

I tend to think that the governors are going to work together to build a sort of shadow interstate government (what you may call a "federal" government in the absence of one, imagine that). That should work out pretty well and give people confidence that a functional government can operate to keep people safe while allowing the economy to restart.

It's a shame that our pre-existing federal government is completely ill-equipped to do so, but there's nothing that can be done about that until the first Tuesday in November.

---

and you forgot Abbot in Texas who is just going to drop the lockdown soon, when he thinks he should.

I'm surprised Newsom is being so aggressive on reopening, but they may reflect the vision of we started lockdowns, and we can be ahead of everyone coming out. I'm wondering if just as there was pressure to be ultra safe when things went south in March, there now is pressure to prove you were right to drop restrictions early.

---

I don't know why you would think that Newsom being aggressive on announcing a plan to reopen means that he is rushing to reopen. I think it will show that he and the other governors are being strategic and thoughtful about how to reopen and how to communicate to their constituents.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect there will be several gates and that anyone who can WFH will still be WFH through the end of May, if not longer. Giving people enough runway to plan for reintegration is good governance.

Let's see what they announce tomorrow.

---

Became the language he used is somewhat skitzo from what he was saying two days ago, before Abbott and even Cuomo starting to talk about reopening. It seems like a race to reopen when there is such an abrupt transition. But yes, we will see tomorrow.

Eh! I still dont think everything reopens until June/ July, or it reopens for a brief period before being shut down again. There is a reasonable fear of the second spike, and I think a lot of people are over eager to jump the gun on this, leading governors to delay reopening the economy.

golden sloth said:

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Eh! I still dont think everything reopens until June/ July, or it reopens for a brief period before being shut down again. There is a reasonable fear of the second spike, and I think a lot of people are over eager to jump the gun on this, leading governors to delay reopening the economy.

---

The governors and others can say whatever they want but it is the people that will decide. I think it is only recently that people became fearful enough, although I still see people wandering around outside like everything is normal. The numbers will start to get better and that will cause some optimism but do you see yourself doing the following (masks or no masks) any time soon? :

1. Sitting on an airplane next to a bunch of strangers?

2. Going to a play, movie, sporting event? Concert? Cruise? Casino? Even whale watching?

3. Going to the gym or playing a team sport? Even hiking, climbing, biking will be impacted.

4. Going to a bar or restaurant?

5. Allowing your child back into a classroom or daycare?

6. Sitting in a cubicle at work and having to use shared facilities (restroom, cafeteria, conference rooms)?

7. Going out to shop at retail stores for non-essentials?

8. Visiting a day spa or even a barber?

9. Spending time at a hotel?

We are still very, very far from people being comfortable with those activities. At least I am. Some of it can be made up for in other ways such as online sales or teleconferencing. Some of it won't be. The prediction that the economy will return to 80% of normal sounds right, which means a 20% loss short-term. That is massive. When people hear "reopening the economy" are they thinking "a return to normal" or "a START of a long, slow return to normal?"

wifeisafurd said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I have a hard time thinking that anyone will really pay attention to what this gang comes up with. Right now there are two professional government teams coming up with plans to reopen the country. The first is Cuomo along with his neighboring statements. The second is Newsom in California.

I tend to think that the governors are going to work together to build a sort of shadow interstate government (what you may call a "federal" government in the absence of one, imagine that). That should work out pretty well and give people confidence that a functional government can operate to keep people safe while allowing the economy to restart.

It's a shame that our pre-existing federal government is completely ill-equipped to do so, but there's nothing that can be done about that until the first Tuesday in November.

---

and you forgot Abbot in Texas who is just going to drop the lockdown soon, when he thinks he should.

I'm surprised Newsom is being so aggressive on reopening, but they may reflect the vision of we started lockdowns, and we can be ahead of everyone coming out. I'm wondering if just as there was pressure to be ultra safe when things went south in March, there now is pressure to prove you were right to drop restrictions early.

---

Newsom and the other (Democratic) governors are sending a message that Trump doesn't decide when the economy reopens. It's their decision.

Which was the topic of today's press briefing.

And yet Trump still thinks he has ultimate power.

And so what will happen is Trump will order the economy opened. Newsom and his fellow Dem governors won't comply. Trump will punish those states in some way. Newsom & Co. will sue the federal government. And the U.S. Supreme Court will vote 5-4 in favor of Trump, saying 10th amendment doesn't apply.

okaydo said:

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Newsom and the other (Democratic) governors are sending a message that Trump doesn't decide when the economy reopens. It's their decision.

Which was the topic of today's press briefing.

And yet Trump still thinks he has ultimate power.

And so what will happen is Trump will order the economy opened. Newsom and his fellow Dem governors won't comply. Trump will punish those states in some way. Newsom & Co. will sue the federal government. And the U.S. Supreme Court will vote 5-4 in favor of Trump, saying 10th amendment doesn't apply.

---

Can the LWNJs make up their minds?

First it's DTs fault for not wielding his power of states to force them to SIP (a power he doesn't have). When called out on this, many LWNJs back pedaled with the "he should be strongly encouraging states to SIP". Now it's DTs fault if he wields the power he doesn't have instead of yielding to states on SIP.

GBear4Life said:

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okaydo said:

---

Newsom and the other (Democratic) governors are sending a message that Trump doesn't decide when the economy reopens. It's their decision.

Which was the topic of today's press briefing.

And yet Trump still thinks he has ultimate power.

And so what will happen is Trump will order the economy opened. Newsom and his fellow Dem governors won't comply. Trump will punish those states in some way. Newsom & Co. will sue the federal government. And the U.S. Supreme Court will vote 5-4 in favor of Trump, saying 10th amendment doesn't apply.

---

Can the LWNJs make up their minds?

First it's DTs fault for not wielding his power of states to force them to SIP (a power he doesn't have). When called out on this, many LWNJs back pedaled with the "he should be strongly encouraging states to SIP". Now it's DTs fault if he wields the power he doesn't have instead of yielding to states on SIP.

---

Nobody is criticizing Trump for not forcing people to shelter in place.

wifeisafurd said:

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okaydo said:

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Not a lot of substantial business experience either. Basically Ross and Mnucian, and ?? (Ivanka/Jerrod is nepotism). No one even outside the executive branch. Maybe a Governor? Health expert? Federal reserve type to coordinate monetary policy? NO TV Producers? W-T-F?

---

And you voted for that nepotism.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I have a hard time thinking that anyone will really pay attention to what this gang comes up with. Right now there are two professional government teams coming up with plans to reopen the country. The first is Cuomo along with his neighboring statements.

---

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Big C said:

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Wait, you mean this wasn't another one of those funny Okaydo jokes?!?

---

There are funny Okaydo jokes?

dimitrig said:

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5. Allowing your child back into a classroom or daycare?

---

You mean like from January 1-March 13? Plenty of opportunities for my daughter to catch something those last couple of weeks of school in March. Have yet to hear of any of the students being sick.

Quote:

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6. Sitting in a cubicle at work and having to use shared facilities (restroom, cafeteria, conference rooms)?

7. Going out to shop at retail stores for non-essentials?

8. Visiting a day spa or even a barber?

9. Spending time at a hotel?

---

These are all silly. As in any time of outside the house activity I've been engaging in since the shelter in place order came down, I maintain space, wash my hands after I get home.

Shopping at retail stores = shopping at supermarkets. No difference in risk factor.

Afraid to get my hair cut? Are you joking? What exactly am I worried about? That they're going to cough on me while I'm in the chair?

Spending time at a hotel. You mean like the hotels where they put up citizens coming back into the country in Australia to keep them quarantined from the rest of the population?

The only thing that would genuinely concern me right now is being in a confined space with a bunch of people like an elevator or a rock concert or a spring break beach or something like that. Any place where it's possible to keep distance from people is much less concerning to me. And anyone who pretends that some of those situations aren't happening every day right now is lying to themselves.

PwC's survey of U.S. chief financial officers shows 26% anticipate layoffs at their companies, a marked increase from two weeks ago when the survey found only 16% expected layoffs, Axios Markets editor Dion Rabouin writes.

"There's a growing realization that ... controlling the virus is simply going to take longer than we thought," Tim Ryan, U.S. chairman and senior partner at PwC, told Axios during a media call Monday.
PwC found 82% of CFOs are now focused on reducing costs, compared to 62% in March (most companies' No. 1 cost is their employees). Axios

Professor Henry Higgins said:

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dimitrig said:

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5. Allowing your child back into a classroom or daycare?

---

You mean like from January 1-March 13? Plenty of opportunities for my daughter to catch something those last couple of weeks of school in March. Have yet to hear of any of the students being sick.

Quote:

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6. Sitting in a cubicle at work and having to use shared facilities (restroom, cafeteria, conference rooms)?

7. Going out to shop at retail stores for non-essentials?

8. Visiting a day spa or even a barber?

9. Spending time at a hotel?

---

These are all silly. As in any time of outside the house activity I've been engaging in since the shelter in place order came down, I maintain space, wash my hands after I get home.

Shopping at retail stores = shopping at supermarkets. No difference in risk factor.

Afraid to get my hair cut? Are you joking? What exactly am I worried about? That they're going to cough on me while I'm in the chair?

Spending time at a hotel. You mean like the hotels where they put up citizens coming back into the country in Australia to keep them quarantined from the rest of the population?

The only thing that would genuinely concern me right now is being in a confined space with a bunch of people like an elevator or a rock concert or a spring break beach or something like that. Any place where it's possible to keep distance from people is much less concerning to me. And anyone who pretends that some of those situations aren't happening every day right now is lying to themselves.

---

You have your own risk posture and I have mine. I can't control if other people engage in risky behaviors or not, but I don't consider any of these activities essential and I won't be engaging in them anytime soon. Trust me when I say I am not alone in that.

dimitrig said:

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golden sloth said:

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Eh! I still dont think everything reopens until June/ July, or it reopens for a brief period before being shut down again. There is a reasonable fear of the second spike, and I think a lot of people are over eager to jump the gun on this, leading governors to delay reopening the economy.

---

The governors and others can say whatever they want but it is the people that will decide. I think it is only recently that people became fearful enough, although I still see people wandering around outside like everything is normal. The numbers will start to get better and that will cause some optimism but do you see yourself doing the following (masks or no masks) any time soon? :

1. Sitting on an airplane next to a bunch of strangers?

2. Going to a play, movie, sporting event? Concert? Cruise? Casino? Even whale watching?

3. Going to the gym or playing a team sport? Even hiking, climbing, biking will be impacted.

4. Going to a bar or restaurant?

5. Allowing your child back into a classroom or daycare?

6. Sitting in a cubicle at work and having to use shared facilities (restroom, cafeteria, conference rooms)?

7. Going out to shop at retail stores for non-essentials?

8. Visiting a day spa or even a barber?

9. Spending time at a hotel?

We are still very, very far from people being comfortable with those activities. At least I am. Some of it can be made up for in other ways such as online sales or teleconferencing. Some of it won't be. The prediction that the economy will return to 80% of normal sounds right, which means a 20% loss short-term. That is massive. When people hear "reopening the economy" are they thinking "a return to normal" or "a START of a long, slow return to normal?"

---

I can only speak for myself, and I'm in good health and in my 30s so I'm not a high risk candidate. The reason I have been social distancing is to protect others in case I'm a carrier. Nonetheless, here is my response to your statements:

1. I cant wait to travel again and I'll probably hop on a plane within a month after lockdown ends. I figure prices will be cheap and traffic will be light, meaning if you are willing accept the risk it is a great time to travel. Particularly if you want to see those really crowded tourist attractions with space to actually move.

2. I dont do plays, movies, concerts, etc. Anyway so this doesn't apply.

3. I cant wait to start playing soccer again.

4. I want to go to a bar, but they aren't fun until there are other people around, so I'll have to wait and see on this.

5. Dont have kids.

6. I hate working from home, and am eager to be in the office and eating with my lunch buddies everyday.

7. I dont retail shop, I shop online and I am eagerly waiting when I can start receiving deliveries again.

8. I need a haircut in a bad way, but I'm also lazy about those things, so although I'm not against the barber, I may not do it immediately.

9. If I travel I'd stay at a hotel, I dont have any issues with it. Again I'm not high risk, so I'm not overly concerned.

Point being, i think 'the people' are going to have a wide array of responses. Some will stay home, others will go out, some will be in the middle, we aren't going to have some sort of unified response from 'the people'.

golden sloth said:

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Point being, i think 'the people' are going to have a wide array of responses. Some will stay home, others will go out, some will be in the middle, we aren't going to have some sort of unified response from 'the people'.

---

My opinion is that enough people will choose to stay home or otherwise alter their activity such that the economy will not be "normal."

I am not surprised that people in their 20s and 30s would be the first to engage in risky activities because they are ALREADY engaging in them. However, I don't need some millenial getting me sick because he wanted to take advantage of the low air fares to Singapore.

Honestly, I had a friend ask me "Should I feel bad for shopping for low international air fares right now? They are so cheap!" The irony is that she's a smoker over age 50.

....and tRump will still raw dog.

dimitrig said:

---

The governors and others can say whatever they want but it is the people that will decide. I think it is only recently that people became fearful enough, although I still see people wandering around outside like everything is normal. The numbers will start to get better and that will cause some optimism but do you see yourself doing the following (masks or no masks) any time soon? :

1. Sitting on an airplane next to a bunch of strangers?

2. Going to a play, movie, sporting event? Concert? Cruise? Casino? Even whale watching?

3. Going to the gym or playing a team sport? Even hiking, climbing, biking will be impacted.

4. Going to a bar or restaurant?

5. Allowing your child back into a classroom or daycare?

6. Sitting in a cubicle at work and having to use shared facilities (restroom, cafeteria, conference rooms)?

7. Going out to shop at retail stores for non-essentials?

8. Visiting a day spa or even a barber?

9. Spending time at a hotel?

We are still very, very far from people being comfortable with those activities. At least I am. Some of it can be made up for in other ways such as online sales or teleconferencing. Some of it won't be. The prediction that the economy will return to 80% of normal sounds right, which means a 20% loss short-term. That is massive. When people hear "reopening the economy" are they thinking "a return to normal" or "a START of a long, slow return to normal?"

---

I think you're basically right. The economy will never be "back to normal" fully until there is a vaccine that is accessible.

Businesses will open up but there will be far less demand to use them for many many months at least. Most likely it will grow incrementally, slowly, in so far as the media narrative on the virus being relatively in check.

Some of these lost jobs aren't coming back -- at least anytime soon, certainly not just because the economy is opened up. I think more jobs will be converted to remote permanently as employers realize these people don't need to be in the office everyday.

Professor Henry Higgins said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Not a lot of substantial business experience either. Basically Ross and Mnucian, and ?? (Ivanka/Jerrod is nepotism). No one even outside the executive branch. Maybe a Governor? Health expert? Federal reserve type to coordinate monetary policy? NO TV Producers? W-T-F?

---

And you voted for that nepotism.

---

Repetitive, tired and stupid is no way to go through life. Try saying something meaningful for a change.