dimitrig said:

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GBear4Life said:

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dimitrig said:

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GBear4Life said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Hell, we should be ready now but that required the federal government making a commitment to test and mask production and they just said private sector will fix it.

---

How would more masks and a commitment to testing (what is a "lack of commitment to testing"?) make opening now justifiable

---

When we can buy N95 respirators at a reasonable price then we have enough masks. I will even go so far as to define a reasonable price as $5 per mask. Before this mess a box of 20 was $20 at Home Depot.

When everyone who wants to be tested can be tested and we make it mandatory to test everyone that a person who is positive comes into contact with then we have a commitment to testing.

---

lol so SIP indefinitely then?

Again, how is testing a key variable in lifting SIP? Obviously more testing = more data which is always better than less data.

It's not medicine. It doesn't change the prescribed behavior. If you have flu like symptoms, the direction is to isolate. If you test positive, the direction is the same. If you're really sick, you go to the hospital whether you're confirmed positive or not. The direction is already for people to operate as though they are infected if they're sick. Most people who have it are toughing it out at home (I mean who wants to go get tested around sick people just to confirm you might have it?). For asymptomatic, it doesn't matter. They're not getting tested whether tests are available or not.

Again, this is why the militant SIPers are absurd and more and more people are getting wise to it.

---

No, not SIP indefinitely. Is it that hard to manufacture masks and tests? If so, this country is in bad shape.

Testing is a key variable because it means that when you go to a restaurant and the waiter tests positive then the entire staff can be tested and everyone who was dining there that night can be tested as well. If any of those people test positive you test the people they came into contact with as well. That is how you "open up the economy" safely. If China and Korea can do that why can't we?

---

Holy sh*t by the time you trace everybody and everbody you've got a chain 1,000 miles long.

So the waiter is sick -- they isolate them. By the time you test to confirm she's sick, everybody she'd been in contact with at work and at home and in public have contacted dozens of others. It (potentially) spreads faster than the ability to test for it, meaning the infected come into contact with too many people.

AunBear89 said:

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bearister said:

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This has been posted multiple times:

Harvard researchers: U.S. needs 20 million COVID-19 tests a day to reopen | Boston.com


https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/04/27/havard-roadmap-pandemic-resilience-coronavirus

---

That's it - we're screwed. With this clown-car administration running things, we'll be lucky to get 20,000 tests a day.

---

You have no idea what you're talking about, which is why you never bother to add anything.

OaktownBear said:

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The federal government hasn't forced anything. It is funny that you claim 3M ramped up production...

---

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/28/3m-ramps-up-production-of-masks-to-meet-coronavirus-demand.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/3m-ramps-up-n95-respirator-production-amid-global-coronavirus-outbreak.html

https://www.massdevice.com/honeywell-3m-ramp-up-n95-face-masks-production/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/3m-ceo-on-n95-masks-demand-exceeds-our-production-capacity-11585842928

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-03-25/3m-doubled-production-of-n95-face-masks-to-fight-coronavirus

ONe of the worst flu seasons a few years ago led to 80,000 deaths. COVID deaths, presuming the death toll is accurate, is at over 50,000 in less than 3 months. The death rates of both the flu and corona are pretty sloppy but they are likely similar, within a 0.1-0.3% variation. If there's 1M confirmed cases, there are surely cases equality a multiple of that number.

If the flu caused 150k deaths, would we shut down economy? 200k?And what if the death rate remained the same by estimates? Or were different?

Unit2Sucks said:

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OaktownBear said:

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For instance. There is zero reason to have your corporate lawyers sitting in an office.

---

I'm also a corporate lawyer and would say this pandemic would help me bolster the argument that I can work remotely in a future job that otherwise would want me on premise, but I wouldn't go so far as to say there's "zero reason".

First and foremost - in person discussions still have some value and can drive efficiency. I find it much less stressful to have someone pop over and ask me a quick question when I'm available than having people constantly pinging me on slack or trying to schedule meetings that could be easily addressed with a quick touch base. I feel less efficient now than when I am in office. You really have to adapt your practices to get the most out of remote work. I have long felt that the inefficiency from remote work is more than made up for in the time I save by not commuting.

I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time working remotely. Before this whole thing went down, I had been remote 2-3 days a week.

---

zero reason may be an exaggeration. But let me ask you about that efficiency that you gain and that reduced stress. How much is it really saving you? Say you have what is a short for the Bay Area half hour commute. Do you really save even close to an hour by popping over for a quick question rather than email, slack or zoom? (I know you said this, but I think you are overestimating the degree of any increased efficiency by even implying it is in the ballpark). And when you pop over or they pop over, do you get that answer and go or a lot of the time is it "Hey Joe. How are the kids. Yeah, mine are great. Blah Blah Blah. Hey let me bounce this idea off you. Hey thanks. Oh man did you see the DB Wilcox pulled in yesterday? How about the Niners draft picks. Okay, well I guess I better get back to work.

Because HR studies are showing more and more and have for years that any feared lack of productivity from workers being home unsupervised is outstripped by watercooler conversations and long lunches. I'm not saying there aren't good things about working at the office, but I'm not buying that the net trade offs are worth it in terms of productivity. I'd also say that a lot of what you are talking about you view as a benefit because you "learned how to work" in that environment. People who didn't won't miss it.

And I don't have to answer my email or phone, but I can't really tell someone not to come into my office. I actually used to have that problem with a few coworkers who liked to go around shooting the breeze.

Honestly, for many things the efficiency is a no brainer. What I would say is ACTUALLY missed is it is one more thing that socially isolates us.

And further, it opens up the possibility that the most qualified person to be in your group may be in Boston or somewhere else.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

For instance. There is zero reason to have your corporate lawyers sitting in an office.

---

I'm also a corporate lawyer and would say this pandemic would help me bolster the argument that I can work remotely in a future job that otherwise would want me on premise, but I wouldn't go so far as to say there's "zero reason".

First and foremost - in person discussions still have some value and can drive efficiency. I find it much less stressful to have someone pop over and ask me a quick question when I'm available than having people constantly pinging me on slack or trying to schedule meetings that could be easily addressed with a quick touch base. I feel less efficient now than when I am in office. You really have to adapt your practices to get the most out of remote work. I have long felt that the inefficiency from remote work is more than made up for in the time I save by not commuting.

I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time working remotely. Before this whole thing went down, I had been remote 2-3 days a week.

---

My experience is the same as Unit 2. And as am ex-real estate/bond lawyer and now real estate guy. sometimes you have top get out and kick dirt, do field meetings, and meet with subordinates for motivational purposes.

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

For instance. There is zero reason to have your corporate lawyers sitting in an office.

---

I'm also a corporate lawyer and would say this pandemic would help me bolster the argument that I can work remotely in a future job that otherwise would want me on premise, but I wouldn't go so far as to say there's "zero reason".

First and foremost - in person discussions still have some value and can drive efficiency. I find it much less stressful to have someone pop over and ask me a quick question when I'm available than having people constantly pinging me on slack or trying to schedule meetings that could be easily addressed with a quick touch base. I feel less efficient now than when I am in office. You really have to adapt your practices to get the most out of remote work. I have long felt that the inefficiency from remote work is more than made up for in the time I save by not commuting.

I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time working remotely. Before this whole thing went down, I had been remote 2-3 days a week.

---

zero reason may be an exaggeration. But let me ask you about that efficiency that you gain and that reduced stress. How much is it really saving you? Say you have what is a short for the Bay Area half hour commute. Do you really save even close to an hour by popping over for a quick question rather than email, slack or zoom? (I know you said this, but I think you are overestimating the degree of any increased efficiency by even implying it is in the ballpark). And when you pop over or they pop over, do you get that answer and go or a lot of the time is it "Hey Joe. How are the kids. Yeah, mine are great. Blah Blah Blah. Hey let me bounce this idea off you. Hey thanks. Oh man did you see the DB Wilcox pulled in yesterday? How about the Niners draft picks. Okay, well I guess I better get back to work.

Because HR studies are showing more and more and have for years that any feared lack of productivity from workers being home unsupervised is outstripped by watercooler conversations and long lunches. I'm not saying there aren't good things about working at the office, but I'm not buying that the net trade offs are worth it in terms of productivity. I'd also say that a lot of what you are talking about you view as a benefit because you "learned how to work" in that environment. People who didn't won't miss it.

And I don't have to answer my email or phone, but I can't really tell someone not to come into my office. I actually used to have that problem with a few coworkers who liked to go around shooting the breeze.

Honestly, for many things the efficiency is a no brainer. What I would say is ACTUALLY missed is it is one more thing that socially isolates us.

And further, it opens up the possibility that the most qualified person to be in your group may be in Boston or somewhere else.

---

I mow people that chose to sneak into to work to reduce stress. Dealing with energetic kids that are no longer working off energy except when pounding each other or having drama with their parents is not a stress release.

GBear4Life said:

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dimitrig said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

OaktownBear said:

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Hell, we should be ready now but that required the federal government making a commitment to test and mask production and they just said private sector will fix it.

---

How would more masks and a commitment to testing (what is a "lack of commitment to testing"?) make opening now justifiable

---

When we can buy N95 respirators at a reasonable price then we have enough masks. I will even go so far as to define a reasonable price as $5 per mask. Before this mess a box of 20 was $20 at Home Depot.

When everyone who wants to be tested can be tested and we make it mandatory to test everyone that a person who is positive comes into contact with then we have a commitment to testing.

---

lol so SIP indefinitely then?

Again, how is testing a key variable in lifting SIP? Obviously more testing = more data which is always better than less data.

It's not medicine. It doesn't change the prescribed behavior. If you have flu like symptoms, the direction is to isolate. If you test positive, the direction is the same. If you're really sick, you go to the hospital whether you're confirmed positive or not. The direction is already for people to operate as though they are infected if they're sick. Most people who have it are toughing it out at home (I mean who wants to go get tested around sick people just to confirm you might have it?). For asymptomatic, it doesn't matter. They're not getting tested whether tests are available or not.

Again, this is why the militant SIPers are absurd and more and more people are getting wise to it.

---

No, not SIP indefinitely. Is it that hard to manufacture masks and tests? If so, this country is in bad shape.

Testing is a key variable because it means that when you go to a restaurant and the waiter tests positive then the entire staff can be tested and everyone who was dining there that night can be tested as well. If any of those people test positive you test the people they came into contact with as well. That is how you "open up the economy" safely. If China and Korea can do that why can't we?

---

Holy sh*t by the time you trace everybody and everbody you've got a chain 1,000 miles long.

So the waiter is sick -- they isolate them. By the time you test to confirm she's sick, everybody she'd been in contact with at work and at home and in public have contacted dozens of others. It (potentially) spreads faster than the ability to test for it, meaning the infected come into contact with too many people.

---

That is why we try to limit the exposure by not opening everything up at once. China put 40,000 people to work doing contact tracing. 40,000 people for, say, a year at $100K each would cost $4B dollars. Let change that by an order of magnitude because of the cost of the testing and specialized software or equipment required and make it $40B. The US just spent $4T and we still have just a fledgling ability to test and trace. I think China got that one right and, remember, China only opened up the country AFTER they had the capability. We are opening our country up first - and we have already spent $4T! Was it on masks, tests, contact tracing? No, it was to prop up business. Which country is supposed to be capitalist again?

I rarely agree with Elon Musk but here you go

hanky1 said:

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I rarely agree with Elon Musk but here you go

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What a dump! Does every car in Texas leak oil?! Look at those parking spots!

Dedicated to the citizenry of Georgia demanding reopening.

bearister said:

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Dedicated to the citizenry of Georgia demanding reopening.

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If only Gavin Newscum were their governor they could get their wish!

dimitrig said:

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What a dump! Does every car in Texas leak oil?! Look at those parking spots!

---

ohh yeahh. (click expands on desktop)

> I hated creeps like this when they were the New Left 50 years ago, and I hate them when they're the New Right today.


yeahbut,, where's good ol' timey 'murican PoliceBrutality when needed, huh? huh??

LMK5 said:

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Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

It's all going according to plan for Sweden. Sure, some people will die in the short term, but then they will be the only country in the world with immunity and they will plunder the rest of Europe like in old times ushering in a new Viking Age.

dimitrig said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

It's all going according to plan for Sweden. Sure, some people will die in the short term, but then they will be the only country in the world with immunity and they will plunder the rest of Europe like in old times ushering in a new Viking Age.

---

Ha! How are they going to do any plundering after all their fat and diabetic senior citizens are culled from their population? Bet they never thought about that!

Big C said:

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dimitrig said:

---

It's all going according to plan for Sweden. Sure, some people will die in the short term, but then they will be the only country in the world with immunity and they will plunder the rest of Europe like in old times ushering in a new Viking Age.

---

Ha! How are they going to do any plundering after all their fat and diabetic senior citizens are culled from their population? Bet they never thought about that!

---

....I'm just glad I walked every street and alleyway in Europe with a back pack on when I was 21....

Air travel will never be the same after coronavirus - Axios


https://www.axios.com/future-air-travel-coronavirus-bcee181c-1d3a-4305-992d-053d5c80a909.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top

If you're going to reopen your state's economy, it doesn't seem sage to hide the number of deaths due to the coronavirus.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-curtails-reporting-of-coronavirus-death-numbers-by-county-medical-examiners-173503327.html

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And here I thought the marriage was on sound footing. Who knew?

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You state your case as if the lockdown comes for free. It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. After all, if you mine the data hard enough ....

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

---

Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

---

Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

---

Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

BearChemist said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

---

Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

---

Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

---

BearChemist said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

---

Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

---

Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

---

Huh? Is that all you have? Saying that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe is disinformation? They're in the same boat as everyone else. What I clearly was asking in the post was why isn't their situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown. Since you're chiming in why don't you tell us why the protests are here, not in Stockholm, dude.

LMK5 said:

---

BearChemist said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

---

Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

---

Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

---

Huh? Is that all you have? Saying that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe is disinformation? They're in the same boat as everyone else. What I clearly was asking in the post was why isn't their situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown. Since you're chiming in why don't you tell us why the protests are here, not in Stockholm, dude.

---

Are you gaslighting or what? That's all Unit2Suck in his post. Read before you post, don't be like GB4L.

LMK5 said:

---

BearChemist said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

---

Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

---

Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

---

Huh? Is that all you have? Saying that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe is disinformation? They're in the same boat as everyone else. What I clearly was asking in the post was why isn't their situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown. Since you're chiming in why don't you tell us why the protests are here, not in Stockholm, dude.

---

A lot of what social distancing is supposed to do is create extra time for hospitals and governments to increase capacity and stockpile the necessary supplies. Unlike the USA, Sweden had high capacity and a strong stockpile before the disease reached them, thus their situation did not necessitate the need to shelter in place.

BearChemist said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

BearChemist said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

---

I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

---

Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

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But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

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Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

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Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

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Huh? Is that all you have? Saying that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe is disinformation? They're in the same boat as everyone else. What I clearly was asking in the post was why isn't their situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown. Since you're chiming in why don't you tell us why the protests are here, not in Stockholm, dude.

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Are you gaslighting or what? That's all Unit2Suck in his post. Read before you post, don't be like GB4L.

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C'mon chemist. I have no idea what gaslighting is. This forum doesn't need another Unit2Sucks who evades questions and instead throws technical forum rules jargon around when he's challenged. Why don't you just answer the question?: Why isn't Sweden's situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown? Why are the protests here and not in Stockholm?

golden sloth said:

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LMK5 said:

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BearChemist said:

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LMK5 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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LMK5 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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LMK5 said:

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Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

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I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

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Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

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So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

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But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

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Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

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Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

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Huh? Is that all you have? Saying that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe is disinformation? They're in the same boat as everyone else. What I clearly was asking in the post was why isn't their situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown. Since you're chiming in why don't you tell us why the protests are here, not in Stockholm, dude.

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A lot of what social distancing is supposed to do is create extra time for hospitals and governments to increase capacity and stockpile the necessary supplies. Unlike the USA, Sweden had high capacity and a strong stockpile before the disease reached them, thus their situation did not necessitate the need to shelter in place.

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True, but that's already been done here. The Navy hospital ships are leaving and ventilators are being sent elsewhere. Hospitals have excess capacity. Are you saying Newsom and company are moving the goalposts? Could you please sight an article that mentions that Sweden's approach was justified by their health officials because they had a strong medical stockpile? Everything I've read said it was only because of their chief epidemiologist's feeling of how best to fight the disease.

LMK5 said:

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BearChemist said:

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LMK5 said:

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BearChemist said:

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LMK5 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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LMK5 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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LMK5 said:

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Sweden is no longer the favored child of the MSM. They've gone their own way on this and they've now become the redheaded stepchild. Their health score, according to covidly.com is a "7." The US just went from a "6" to a "7" this morning. The notable difference? No lockdown in Sweden. Their ability to live while we hunker down really bothers some people. No one wants to give them any credit for attaining the same results without the economic damage the locked down nations are experiencing. We should wonder why.

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I assume you just haven't had time to update us, but covidly has since downgraded both Sweden and the US from 7 to 6. Would like to understand what you think this means LMK5 and whether this should shed some light on what you consider to be a successful management by Sweden of the pandemic.

Just a reminder that Sweden is about the size of the Bay Area and they just had another triple digit death day whereas we are averaging 5 deaths per day.

While we are talking about Sweden would also be great to have LMK5 explain to us how Sweden's economy is doing. According to this article (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html), things don't look so good. But we need to withhold judgment until LMK5 weighs in since he seems to have a pretty good handle on things.

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Did I just hear of an impending divorce? Has the left now ostracized Sweden after upholding them as a paragon of virtue for decades? And hear I thought the marriage was on sound footing.

Don't you find it interesting that they have the same health score as us without a lockdown? How can it even be close? I though that if someone was going by the science and data that meant that we would all be doing the same thing. Numbers don't lie, right? Is their chief epidemiologist missing something that's right in front of him? Are the Swedes protesting in front of his house?

You keep talking about deaths, as if that's the only stat to look at. OK, I'll play along. New Jersey is smaller than Sweden, is in lockdown, and they've had 457 deaths in the last 24 hours. OK your turn.

You think the lockdown comes for free? It doesn't. If your job security was tenuous, trust me, your views would suddenly become more balanced. Do you care that kids aren't in school where they belong? Do you care that millions are unemployed? Do you care about increased child abuse and domestic violence? How about obesity and alcoholism? How about lack of available medical care for serious conditions? All are prices for the lockdown that CNN won't dare to mention. And the best you can do is say that we're winning because Sweden has more deaths than the Bay Area? You're out of order, counselor.

What needs to be explained is how, without a lockdown, Sweden isn't having a catastrophe. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it, somewhere. If you mine the data hard enough ....

---

So much disinformation from you. As always it's unclear whether you are doing so purposefully or if you are another victim of Tucker Carlson.

First - the "love affair" with Sweden as I understand it related to their social safety net, which is even more valuable during a pandemic. If anything has changed, it's republicans once again showing that their ideology is paper thin. The "left" can still criticize a country's leaders for making poor decisions, regardless of their approval for the country's social platform.

Do you have evidence that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe or economic devastation from a lockdown? Healthwise, they are predicted to have 4x the per capita death totals of Italy and Spain. They are predicted to have 7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden. Economically, they are seeing devastation which isn't surprising since they have taken measures. All mass gatherings are banned. High schools and colleges are closed. Restaurants are social distancing. According to the Swedish "expert" on Tucker Carlson last night, Sweden has accepted that COVID isn't going away anytime soon and that they will have to deal with it for the long haul and basically that their economy will have long-term repercussions.
Have Republicans accepted that? Has LMK5?

Please explain to me how this is positive news for Sweden's approach:

Quote:

---

But one thing is clear: Keeping its economy "open" wasn't enough to spare Sweden a recession. In fact, the Swedish economy is shrinking just as rapidly as its neighbors. Finland and Denmark, both of which imposed lockdowns, will see their economies contract by 6 percent and 6.5 percent, respectively, this year, according to recent IMF projections. Sweden's central bank released two estimates for the nation's 2020 GDP this week: In the more optimistic scenario, the Riksbank expects growth to fall by 6.9 percent; under less rosy assumptions, it anticipates a 9.7 percent contraction.

---

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Why don't you point out exactly where my disinformation is. Not something that differs from your predictions or opinion. Disinformation only.

---

Dude, he highlighted that sentence.

---

Huh? Is that all you have? Saying that Sweden isn't having a catastrophe is disinformation? They're in the same boat as everyone else. What I clearly was asking in the post was why isn't their situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown. Since you're chiming in why don't you tell us why the protests are here, not in Stockholm, dude.

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Are you gaslighting or what? That's all Unit2Suck in his post. Read before you post, don't be like GB4L.

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C'mon chemist. I have no idea what gaslighting is. This forum doesn't need another Unit2Sucks who evades questions and instead throws technical forum rules jargon around when he's challenged. Why don't you just answer the question?: Why isn't Sweden's situation far worse than ours since they don't have a lockdown? Why are the protests here and not in Stockholm?

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You are really dense. Unit2sucks does not agree with you on the statement "Sweden's situation is not far worse than ours." Look at the death per capita stats first, would you?

Once you do that, then consider the healthy care affordability difference between US and Sweden. A more straightforward comparison should be between Sweden and its neighboring countries (do you know who they are, anyway?). Post those numbers here, then people may believe that you want a civil conversation.

LMK5 said:

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Everything I've read said it was only because of their chief epidemiologist's feeling of how best to fight the disease.

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Feelings? You really think they made their decision based on someone, anyone's FEELINGS? And what would be a catastrophe if not: "7x the death totals of California, a state that is 4x the size of Sweden"

No leadership and no plan: is Trump about to fail the US on coronavirus testing?


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/donald-trump-us-coronavirus-testing?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

bearister said:

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No leadership and no plan: is Trump about to fail the US on coronavirus testing?


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/donald-trump-us-coronavirus-testing?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

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Has Trump ever succeeded at anything? I guess he won the Presidential election, but it's not a resounding success when one receives 4M fewer votes. Did his game show get good ratings? If so, maybe he has that.