Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

Much of Europe has screwed up the vaccine rollout and they have a big problem with vaccine hesitancy and I'm happy to call them idiots for that. I am going to hesitate to compare them negatively on their latest surge because for most of the pandemic our surges have followed theirs by several weeks and we are starting to see upticks that they saw several weeks ago. I have some hope that our better vaccine rollout and the fact that we have had longer to do it before the variants started ramping up is going to prevent us from following them this time. I'll feel a lot better about it if we don't see a bigger surge in the next month. The primary reason I talk about America instead of France is that I am American and what French officials do is irrelevant to me.

I'm not sure about your point on the stadiums. The criticism of Texas was selling to full capacity. Sounds like you agree that a middle ground approach is warranted. I don't know about everywhere, but the Oakland A's are selling to 25% capacity (the joke being that is normal anyway)

Many of the Bay Area schools are back at some level. They should be. I thought SF was going back, but I've lost track. Frankly they have bigger problems with that school board and I don't think you will find much support for them here. But anyway- point is the Bay Area is opening up more and more as we have moved into better tiers. The schools are largely driven by some teachers/unions being asshats than any giv health regulations

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

You know LMK was just waiting for OC's number to get ever so slightly better so he could pull that out of his butt.

---

LMK5 said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

Much of Europe has screwed up the vaccine rollout and they have a big problem with vaccine hesitancy and I'm happy to call them idiots for that. I am going to hesitate to compare them negatively on their latest surge because for most of the pandemic our surges have followed theirs by several weeks and we are starting to see upticks that they saw several weeks ago. I have some hope that our better vaccine rollout and the fact that we have had longer to do it before the variants started ramping up is going to prevent us from following them this time. I'll feel a lot better about it if we don't see a bigger surge in the next month. The primary reason I talk about America instead of France is that I am American and what French officials do is irrelevant to me.

I'm not sure about your point on the stadiums. The criticism of Texas was selling to full capacity. Sounds like you agree that a middle ground approach is warranted. I don't know about everywhere, but the Oakland A's are selling to 25% capacity (the joke being that is normal anyway)

Many of the Bay Area schools are back at some level. They should be. I thought SF was going back, but I've lost track. Frankly they have bigger problems with that school board and I don't think you will find much support for them here. But anyway- point is the Bay Area is opening up more and more as we have moved into better tiers. The schools are largely driven by some teachers/unions being asshats than any giv health regulations

---

Yes, I agree that stadium capacities should be ramped up. Full capacity is a little dicey, but you know what, if all goes well in Arlington others will follow. Why I can't go see an NCAA baseball game is beyond me. Just don't call me for donations when the shortfall hits you in the forehead Mr. Athletic Director.

What I especially resent is the primitive behavior of the UC campuses, especially UCLA and Cal. What a lost opportunity this was for UC to be innovative and show the way. Instead, they padlocked everything and shut the students out of all facilities and activities--while demanding full price. I see other schools providing limited library service, setting up covered areas for studying and wifi access, having in-person classes, and doing what they can to normalize the college experience as much as possible. Not UCLA and Cal. They've got to show you how draconian they can be and show the students and parents who's boss, while the "fundraising" machinery gets put into overdrive. Did I happen to mention they are still demanding full price?

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

Much of Europe has screwed up the vaccine rollout and they have a big problem with vaccine hesitancy and I'm happy to call them idiots for that. I am going to hesitate to compare them negatively on their latest surge because for most of the pandemic our surges have followed theirs by several weeks and we are starting to see upticks that they saw several weeks ago. I have some hope that our better vaccine rollout and the fact that we have had longer to do it before the variants started ramping up is going to prevent us from following them this time. I'll feel a lot better about it if we don't see a bigger surge in the next month. The primary reason I talk about America instead of France is that I am American and what French officials do is irrelevant to me.

I'm not sure about your point on the stadiums. The criticism of Texas was selling to full capacity. Sounds like you agree that a middle ground approach is warranted. I don't know about everywhere, but the Oakland A's are selling to 25% capacity (the joke being that is normal anyway)

Many of the Bay Area schools are back at some level. They should be. I thought SF was going back, but I've lost track. Frankly they have bigger problems with that school board and I don't think you will find much support for them here. But anyway- point is the Bay Area is opening up more and more as we have moved into better tiers. The schools are largely driven by some teachers/unions being asshats than any giv health regulations

---

Yes, I agree that stadium capacities should be ramped up. Full capacity is a little dicey, but you know what, if all goes well in Arlington others will follow. Why I can't go see an NCAA baseball game is beyond me. Just don't call me for donations when the shortfall hits you in the forehead Mr. Athletic Director.

What I especially resent is the primitive behavior of the UC campuses, especially UCLA and Cal. What a lost opportunity this was for UC to be innovative and show the way. Instead, they padlocked everything and shut the students out of all facilities and activities--while demanding full price. I see other schools providing limited library service, setting up covered areas for studying and wifi access, having in-person classes, and doing what they can to normalize the college experience as much as possible. Not UCLA and Cal. They've got to show you how draconian they can be and show the students and parents who's boss, while the "fundraising" machinery gets put into overdrive. Did I happen to mention they are still demanding full price?

---

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/06/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

You know LMK was just waiting for OC's number to get ever so slightly better so he could pull that out of his butt.

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

You know LMK was just waiting for OC's number to get ever so slightly better so he could pull that out of his butt.

---

Gentlemen, as you know, it ain't how you start it's how you finish. Sorry to pass you up in the home stretch LOL.

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

You know LMK was just waiting for OC's number to get ever so slightly better so he could pull that out of his butt.

---

Gentlemen, as you know, it ain't how you start it's how you finish. Sorry to pass you up in the home stretch LOL.

---

This is the worst sports analogy ever. It's more like getting blown out in the first half and then winning the fourth quarter by one point and crowing about it.

Guess what: the points from the first half still count.

---

LMK5 said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

Much of Europe has screwed up the vaccine rollout and they have a big problem with vaccine hesitancy and I'm happy to call them idiots for that. I am going to hesitate to compare them negatively on their latest surge because for most of the pandemic our surges have followed theirs by several weeks and we are starting to see upticks that they saw several weeks ago. I have some hope that our better vaccine rollout and the fact that we have had longer to do it before the variants started ramping up is going to prevent us from following them this time. I'll feel a lot better about it if we don't see a bigger surge in the next month. The primary reason I talk about America instead of France is that I am American and what French officials do is irrelevant to me.

I'm not sure about your point on the stadiums. The criticism of Texas was selling to full capacity. Sounds like you agree that a middle ground approach is warranted. I don't know about everywhere, but the Oakland A's are selling to 25% capacity (the joke being that is normal anyway)

Many of the Bay Area schools are back at some level. They should be. I thought SF was going back, but I've lost track. Frankly they have bigger problems with that school board and I don't think you will find much support for them here. But anyway- point is the Bay Area is opening up more and more as we have moved into better tiers. The schools are largely driven by some teachers/unions being asshats than any giv health regulations

---

Yes, I agree that stadium capacities should be ramped up. Full capacity is a little dicey, but you know what, if all goes well in Arlington others will follow. Why I can't go see an NCAA baseball game is beyond me. Just don't call me for donations when the shortfall hits you in the forehead Mr. Athletic Director.

What I especially resent is the primitive behavior of the UC campuses, especially UCLA and Cal. What a lost opportunity this was for UC to be innovative and show the way. Instead, they padlocked everything and shut the students out of all facilities and activities--while demanding full price. I see other schools providing limited library service, setting up covered areas for studying and wifi access, having in-person classes, and doing what they can to normalize the college experience as much as possible. Not UCLA and Cal. They've got to show you how draconian they can be and show the students and parents who's boss, while the "fundraising" machinery gets put into overdrive. Did I happen to mention they are still demanding full price?

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

You know LMK was just waiting for OC's number to get ever so slightly better so he could pull that out of his butt.

---

Gentlemen, as you know, it ain't how you start it's how you finish. Sorry to pass you up in the home stretch LOL.

---

This is the worst sports analogy ever. It's more like getting blown out in the first half and then winning the fourth quarter by one point and crowing about it.

Guess what: the points from the first half still count.

---

calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

Much of Europe has screwed up the vaccine rollout and they have a big problem with vaccine hesitancy and I'm happy to call them idiots for that. I am going to hesitate to compare them negatively on their latest surge because for most of the pandemic our surges have followed theirs by several weeks and we are starting to see upticks that they saw several weeks ago. I have some hope that our better vaccine rollout and the fact that we have had longer to do it before the variants started ramping up is going to prevent us from following them this time. I'll feel a lot better about it if we don't see a bigger surge in the next month. The primary reason I talk about America instead of France is that I am American and what French officials do is irrelevant to me.

I'm not sure about your point on the stadiums. The criticism of Texas was selling to full capacity. Sounds like you agree that a middle ground approach is warranted. I don't know about everywhere, but the Oakland A's are selling to 25% capacity (the joke being that is normal anyway)

Many of the Bay Area schools are back at some level. They should be. I thought SF was going back, but I've lost track. Frankly they have bigger problems with that school board and I don't think you will find much support for them here. But anyway- point is the Bay Area is opening up more and more as we have moved into better tiers. The schools are largely driven by some teachers/unions being asshats than any giv health regulations

---

Yes, I agree that stadium capacities should be ramped up. Full capacity is a little dicey, but you know what, if all goes well in Arlington others will follow. Why I can't go see an NCAA baseball game is beyond me. Just don't call me for donations when the shortfall hits you in the forehead Mr. Athletic Director.

What I especially resent is the primitive behavior of the UC campuses, especially UCLA and Cal. What a lost opportunity this was for UC to be innovative and show the way. Instead, they padlocked everything and shut the students out of all facilities and activities--while demanding full price. I see other schools providing limited library service, setting up covered areas for studying and wifi access, having in-person classes, and doing what they can to normalize the college experience as much as possible. Not UCLA and Cal. They've got to show you how draconian they can be and show the students and parents who's boss, while the "fundraising" machinery gets put into overdrive. Did I happen to mention they are still demanding full price?

---

Well you are lucky that you kids did not get into stanfraud!

---

LMK5 said:

---

calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

Much of Europe has screwed up the vaccine rollout and they have a big problem with vaccine hesitancy and I'm happy to call them idiots for that. I am going to hesitate to compare them negatively on their latest surge because for most of the pandemic our surges have followed theirs by several weeks and we are starting to see upticks that they saw several weeks ago. I have some hope that our better vaccine rollout and the fact that we have had longer to do it before the variants started ramping up is going to prevent us from following them this time. I'll feel a lot better about it if we don't see a bigger surge in the next month. The primary reason I talk about America instead of France is that I am American and what French officials do is irrelevant to me.

I'm not sure about your point on the stadiums. The criticism of Texas was selling to full capacity. Sounds like you agree that a middle ground approach is warranted. I don't know about everywhere, but the Oakland A's are selling to 25% capacity (the joke being that is normal anyway)

Many of the Bay Area schools are back at some level. They should be. I thought SF was going back, but I've lost track. Frankly they have bigger problems with that school board and I don't think you will find much support for them here. But anyway- point is the Bay Area is opening up more and more as we have moved into better tiers. The schools are largely driven by some teachers/unions being asshats than any giv health regulations

---

Yes, I agree that stadium capacities should be ramped up. Full capacity is a little dicey, but you know what, if all goes well in Arlington others will follow. Why I can't go see an NCAA baseball game is beyond me. Just don't call me for donations when the shortfall hits you in the forehead Mr. Athletic Director.

What I especially resent is the primitive behavior of the UC campuses, especially UCLA and Cal. What a lost opportunity this was for UC to be innovative and show the way. Instead, they padlocked everything and shut the students out of all facilities and activities--while demanding full price. I see other schools providing limited library service, setting up covered areas for studying and wifi access, having in-person classes, and doing what they can to normalize the college experience as much as possible. Not UCLA and Cal. They've got to show you how draconian they can be and show the students and parents who's boss, while the "fundraising" machinery gets put into overdrive. Did I happen to mention they are still demanding full price?

---

Well you are lucky that you kids did not get into stanfraud!

---

True. I would have said no at twice the price anyway.

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

To me, the sad sights are the stadiums that are needlessly empty. Like in any battle, somebody has to be the first to poke their head out of the foxhole and lead the way. It sure ain't gonna be a Californian. Never heard of the Daytona 500, or the Super Bowl, or the resulting celebration leading to an outbreak, and we certainly would have heard about it if it occurred.

---

What are you talking about? I know that Trump taught you to think of everything as a war against people who aren't Republicans, but that's not literally true. We aren't in a war, we are dealing with risk.

In the 80's did you tell people that we were in a war with AIDS and that somebody had to stop wearing condoms to lead the way? When people realized Asbestos was cancerous, did you tell people dealing with friable asbestos to stop wearing marks and PPE to lead the way? What about for smoking? What about for any other known health risks that can be readily dealt with?

I'm not happy about the fact that people can't resume pre-pandemic life yet, but what makes me really said is the 500k American excess deaths in 2020 alone and the ~200k more that have died so far this year. Rather than pretending that this is a literal war where we are fighting against a real enemy for a specific cause, we should treat this as it actually is: a public health emergency that demands coordinated, reasonable precautions. Every time a population group chooses to forgo precautions, it increases the chances COVID will flourish in that community. Because we are collectively half-assing it as a country, due in large part to our American culture, COVID has remained too big of a problem for too long.

So rather than feeling sad because stadiums have been fallow for 12 months, how about we focus on what it will take to allow stadiums to be safely packed as soon as possible. The answer has always been to defeat the pandemic, not to just pretend it doesn't exist. Difficult real-world problems often require self-sacrifice and hard work. I know that is anathema to much of our country, but we needed to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, not enough of us have and we are where we are.

Before this is all said and done we are likely to lose in the neighborhood of 1m Americans to this pandemic (assuming that the vaccines actually work as well as we think they do and the pandemic doesn't become an evergreen public health problem), and most of those deaths will have been unnecessary.

---

Americans are doing plenty. Why don't you rag on the French and Italians since they have been so irresponsible that they have to go into full lockdown? Why is the invective always aimed at Americans?

There is a middle ground. We can have people at sporting events. A full house isn't the best idea right now. You need to ramp up and see how it goes first. But empty stadiums? Where's the science for that? You're in SF where kids can't even go to school. Is that in the name of safety? Really? There's no way to bring kids to school safely, even though the CDC has been saying so for months? That's primitive behavior.

We need to be much more innovative and yes, courageous. There are ways to make life more normal and be safe at the same time. We've paid enough of a price being oppressed by people who have a lifelong need to lord over others and have disguised it under the cloak of safety.

Rib-jab alert: OC is kicking NorCal butt in terms of Covid performance: https://public.tableau.com/profile/ca.open.data#!/vizhome/COVID-19CasesDashboardv2_0/CaseStatistics

---

I'm not ragging on the French and Italians because I don't live in France or Italy. I don't look to Europe for leadership here. There were people here who lauded their use of HCQ - I didn't. Rather than focusing on people who've done worse (which seems to be a favorite loser fallback), why don't you recognize that Asia has done much better? Why do you think it is that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have done so well comparatively? Did they get out of the foxhole first? I don't know about you, but I aspire to do as well as I can, not just better than the biggest losers.

You've been making the same baseless calls for a return to normalcy for about 12 months now. You never favored public health measures to control the spread. You started a thread noting how jealous you were of Arizona. This was like several surges ago. You are the bad idea jeans guy from the SNL 80's skit.

As for OC vs the Bay Area, as usual you fail to make an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare on a close to reasonable way, you would look at San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Contra Costa and Marin. As far as I can tell, OC has had more than 2x the deaths per capita as any of those counties.

Based on everything you've posted in the last 12 months about COVID, it's pretty clear you don't care about public health. Any sacrifice is too much for you. I think you would be happier in Arizona, Texas, Florida or perhaps one of the Dakotas. There are plenty of places in this country where individual freedom trumps any collective responsibility. Many people consider that to be the very core strength of our American culture. I think it's clearly been a liability in facing the pandemic.

---

The OC vs. Bay Area thing is ridiculous. So for one week when cases are way down everywhere they have a slightly better case rate and that is kicking butt when overall they have a lot more deaths per capita than the highest Bay Area county.

---

You know LMK was just waiting for OC's number to get ever so slightly better so he could pull that out of his butt.

---

Gentlemen, as you know, it ain't how you start it's how you finish. Sorry to pass you up in the home stretch LOL.

---

bearister said:

---

Data: CSSE Johns Hopkins University. Map: Andrew Witherspoon/Axios


https://images.axios.com/srgV_REkvwOy6sPfzkj4EjOwuhY=/0x81:2000x1206/1920x1080/2021/04/08/1617873900517.jpg

Hundreds of sellers are offering false and stolen vaccine cards on Etsy, eBay, Facebook and Twitter, the N.Y. Times reports (subscription):

Sellers are asking "$20 to $60 each, with a discount on bundles of three or more. Laminated ones cost extra."
Axios



*I just saw a fake one that says Shocky1 on it.

---

dajo9 said:

---

There is clearly some weather component to the virus. If you look at infection rates of the last 7 days, of the highest 21 states, they are all winter weather states except for one - Florida (11th highest infection rate). Currently California ranks 48th (as in 3rd lowest infection rate). More research and analysis is needed of how the weather affects the virus. And it probably isn't even the weather affecting the virus, but rather the weather affecting human behavior. There is no outdoor dining in New Jersey in February. New Jersey ranks #2, only behind Michigan, #1. The next highest warm weather state is South Carolina at #22. The best states with wintery weather have very low population densities (Kansas, New Mexico).

Too much focus is placed on governance and not enough on these other uncontrollable factors. The state governances we should be looking at are the states that are outliers (good and bad) relative to their weather and population density norms.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html#states

---