Unit2Sucks said:

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dimitrig said:

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sycasey said:

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dimitrig said:

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sycasey said:

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dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

For vaccinated people, the hospitalization rate for COVID is well below the typical rate for the flu. I never stopped myself from going to restaurants and movies because of the flu.

I understand the larger societal issues that arise from community spread, so I will follow guidelines around indoor masking and whatnot, but let's not overstate the risks to vaccinated people. This is really about getting more people vaccinated ASAP.

sycasey said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

For vaccinated people, the hospitalization rate for COVID is well below the typical rate for the flu. I never stopped myself from going to restaurants and movies because of the flu.

I understand the larger societal issues that arise from community spread, so I will follow guidelines around indoor masking and whatnot, but let's not overstate the risks to vaccinated people. This is really about getting more people vaccinated ASAP.

---

I don't think the flu is the right reference point because we have a long history with the flu and there are a lot fewer unknowns. Also people like you and me with young children don't have the luxury of isolating ourselves from the unvaccinated. My reasonable concerns about COVID have everything to do with protecting my community right now and almost nothing to do with my personal health and safety.

EDIT: Also, in case this is interesting to anyone, there was only one reported flu death for a child this past flue season, vs about 200 per year before that. Increased flu vaccination along with the measures we took to somewhat control COVID essentially eliminated the flu this year.

Being fully vaccinated reduces infection from the SARS-CoV-2 virus and resulting transmission. It SIGNIFICANTLY reduces symptomatic COVID and it GREATLY reduces hospitalization and death from COVID.

How many fully vaccinated people under, say, 80, who are also not "walking underlying conditions" will have been hospitalized or died from COVID in 2021? Then, compare that number with the numbers for other causes of hospitalization and death, taking into account the percentage of Americans who were fully vaccinated.

Then you have a reasonable risk assessment. I will still cheerfully take recommended masking-type precautions in public, so as not to come off like some Republican d*****, but I'm feeling pretty safe right now. Hell, hundreds of people die every year from whatever you can think of. All you can do is play the odds and avoid the riskiest of risks.

Also, the people out there who are unvaccinated SHOULD BE VACCINATED (except for under-12 and a few others). After a year and a half of this crap, I don't really feel like coddling the unvaccinated anymore, nor do they want me to.

Unit2Sucks said:

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sycasey said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

For vaccinated people, the hospitalization rate for COVID is well below the typical rate for the flu. I never stopped myself from going to restaurants and movies because of the flu.

I understand the larger societal issues that arise from community spread, so I will follow guidelines around indoor masking and whatnot, but let's not overstate the risks to vaccinated people. This is really about getting more people vaccinated ASAP.

---

I don't think the flu is the right reference point because we have a long history with the flu and there are a lot fewer unknowns. Also people like you and me with young children don't have the luxury of isolating ourselves from the unvaccinated. My reasonable concerns about COVID have everything to do with protecting my community right now and almost nothing to do with my personal health and safety.

EDIT: Also, in case this is interesting to anyone, there was only one reported flu death for a child this past flue season, vs about 200 per year before that. Increased flu vaccination along with the measures we took to somewhat control COVID essentially eliminated the flu this year.

---

Even for unvaccinated kids . . . the rates of hospitalization seem to be in the ballpark of the flu. If unvaccinated adults weren't also out there spreading the disease around there wouldn't be much concern about what happens to them. That said, if community spread goes up, you're going to see more kids in the hospital too, so I get the need for regulations to curb spread.

But again, for vaccinated adults and young kids the risks are just not that great. Almost the entire issue is with unvaccinated adults.

Also, dimitrig should get his second shot and be fully vaccinated. There is literally no better step you can take to help prevent spread of COVID-19.

sycasey said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

For vaccinated people, the hospitalization rate for COVID is well below the typical rate for the flu. I never stopped myself from going to restaurants and movies because of the flu.

I understand the larger societal issues that arise from community spread, so I will follow guidelines around indoor masking and whatnot, but let's not overstate the risks to vaccinated people. This is really about getting more people vaccinated ASAP.

---

I don't think the flu is the right reference point because we have a long history with the flu and there are a lot fewer unknowns. Also people like you and me with young children don't have the luxury of isolating ourselves from the unvaccinated. My reasonable concerns about COVID have everything to do with protecting my community right now and almost nothing to do with my personal health and safety.

EDIT: Also, in case this is interesting to anyone, there was only one reported flu death for a child this past flue season, vs about 200 per year before that. Increased flu vaccination along with the measures we took to somewhat control COVID essentially eliminated the flu this year.

---

Even for unvaccinated kids . . . the rates of hospitalization seem to be in the ballpark of the flu. If unvaccinated adults weren't also out there spreading the disease around there wouldn't be much concern about what happens to them. That said, if community spread goes up, you're going to see more kids in the hospital too, so I get the need for regulations to curb spread.

But again, for vaccinated adults and young kids the risks are just not that great. Almost the entire issue is with unvaccinated adults.

Also, dimitrig should get his second shot and be fully vaccinated. There is literally no better step you can take to help prevent spread of COVID-19.

---

Sure but more and more kids are already ending up in hospitals.

Dear God. https://t.co/Sd6FSJnIAV

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) August 13, 2021

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

For vaccinated people, the hospitalization rate for COVID is well below the typical rate for the flu. I never stopped myself from going to restaurants and movies because of the flu.

I understand the larger societal issues that arise from community spread, so I will follow guidelines around indoor masking and whatnot, but let's not overstate the risks to vaccinated people. This is really about getting more people vaccinated ASAP.

---

I don't think the flu is the right reference point because we have a long history with the flu and there are a lot fewer unknowns. Also people like you and me with young children don't have the luxury of isolating ourselves from the unvaccinated. My reasonable concerns about COVID have everything to do with protecting my community right now and almost nothing to do with my personal health and safety.

EDIT: Also, in case this is interesting to anyone, there was only one reported flu death for a child this past flue season, vs about 200 per year before that. Increased flu vaccination along with the measures we took to somewhat control COVID essentially eliminated the flu this year.

---

Even for unvaccinated kids . . . the rates of hospitalization seem to be in the ballpark of the flu. If unvaccinated adults weren't also out there spreading the disease around there wouldn't be much concern about what happens to them. That said, if community spread goes up, you're going to see more kids in the hospital too, so I get the need for regulations to curb spread.

But again, for vaccinated adults and young kids the risks are just not that great. Almost the entire issue is with unvaccinated adults.

Also, dimitrig should get his second shot and be fully vaccinated. There is literally no better step you can take to help prevent spread of COVID-19.

---

Sure but more and more kids are already ending up in hospitals.

Dear God. https://t.co/Sd6FSJnIAV

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) August 13, 2021

---

Yes, this is due to community spread getting out of hand in some locations, because of unvaccinated adults. If the numbers go up across the board, they go up among kids as well. This is why I'm not objecting to new public-health guidelines/restrictions.

But to any individual kid, the new variant is not especially more dangerous.

Several counties across the U.S. have temporarily suspended school because of a surge in coronavirus cases among students and faculty early in the academic year. https://t.co/EOmngyJV7r

— Axios (@axios) August 13, 2021

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You have to be a complete moron to believe ABC or any Democrat party propaganda news. https://t.co/VhCxzec9tq

— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) August 13, 2021

There's no Covid in Chicago apparently.

I was just going to post this:

Chicago's top doctor says Lollapalooza was not the COVID-19 superspreader that some people feared it might be. https://t.co/CvzgwPq0SR

— KTVU (@KTVU) August 13, 2021

I didn't approve of it but it required a vax card or test to get in. If you put a gun to my head and made me attend that or Sturgis, I would prefer to play the odds at that concert. But then again those ladies of Sturgis look like players.

BearForce1, no relation to me, would have preferred Sturgis, you know, with the leather and all.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

---

The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations.

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe.

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

---

I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. Imagine that.

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

---

The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations.

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe.

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

---

I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. Imagine that.

---

Absolutely agree that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is vaccination. No doubt about it. Pfizer, even with waning protection, still protects 17 out of 20 vs those unvaccinated.

Completely disagree with any implication that these vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease. These misleading facts make it difficult to enforce mask wearing at my work, despite county ordinance. Yesterday, I asked an employee to pull his mask back up while in a conference room meeting with 5 other people. He told me he couldn't spread what he doesn't have because he is vaccinated.

Only people that pay attention realize there are still dangers if vaccinated.

---

Agreed. It's unfortunate how difficult it is to communicate challenging public health messages to the public, particularly when there is so much irresponsible disinformation out there.

I didn't say that the vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease by the way, I jut reported that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people. I'm sure the current percentage is higher but risk isn't absolute. For the small number of immuno compromised people it could be much higher. For those who already had COVID and are vaccinated it could be lower. Underlying conditions also have an impact.

And of course even mild cases of COVID can have long-term implications for the infected. Not to mention the risk of spreading to children who aren't yet eligible for vaccination.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

---

The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations.

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe.

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

---

I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. Imagine that.

---

Absolutely agree that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is vaccination. No doubt about it. Pfizer, even with waning protection, still protects 17 out of 20 vs those unvaccinated.

Completely disagree with any implication that these vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease. These misleading facts make it difficult to enforce mask wearing at my work, despite county ordinance. Yesterday, I asked an employee to pull his mask back up while in a conference room meeting with 5 other people. He told me he couldn't spread what he doesn't have because he is vaccinated.

Only people that pay attention realize there are still dangers if vaccinated.

---

Agreed. It's unfortunate how difficult it is to communicate challenging public health messages to the public, particularly when there is so much irresponsible disinformation out there.

I didn't say that the vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease by the way, I jut reported that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people. I'm sure the current percentage is higher but risk isn't absolute. For the small number of immuno compromised people it could be much higher. For those who already had COVID and are vaccinated it could be lower. Underlying conditions also have an impact.

And of course even mild cases of COVID can have long-term implications for the infected. Not to mention the risk of spreading to children who aren't yet eligible for vaccination.

---

Since we are talking about the current risk of breakthrough infection and severe disease in vaccinated people, what is the point of reporting that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people? You are spreading factual, but misleading information.

As for being difficult to provide public messaging to the public due to misleading information (your point), the truth as you have just demonstrated, is that the public health authorities are spreading misleading information for public policy reasons. For example, the vaccines were 99.5% effective against severe disease. This holds for months to encourage vaccination. Suddenly, they are 85% effective in July. The media is slow to report this as encouraging vaccination is still the message. Suddenly, once the push is boosters and staying safe, the public health authorities and media are vocal about the 85%.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMReWoTjW/

Oh boy

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

---

The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations.

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe.

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

---

I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. Imagine that.

---

Absolutely agree that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is vaccination. No doubt about it. Pfizer, even with waning protection, still protects 17 out of 20 vs those unvaccinated.

Completely disagree with any implication that these vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease. These misleading facts make it difficult to enforce mask wearing at my work, despite county ordinance. Yesterday, I asked an employee to pull his mask back up while in a conference room meeting with 5 other people. He told me he couldn't spread what he doesn't have because he is vaccinated.

Only people that pay attention realize there are still dangers if vaccinated.

---

Agreed. It's unfortunate how difficult it is to communicate challenging public health messages to the public, particularly when there is so much irresponsible disinformation out there.

I didn't say that the vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease by the way, I jut reported that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people. I'm sure the current percentage is higher but risk isn't absolute. For the small number of immuno compromised people it could be much higher. For those who already had COVID and are vaccinated it could be lower. Underlying conditions also have an impact.

And of course even mild cases of COVID can have long-term implications for the infected. Not to mention the risk of spreading to children who aren't yet eligible for vaccination.

---

Since we are talking about the current risk of breakthrough infection and severe disease in vaccinated people, what is the point of reporting that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people? You are spreading factual, but misleading information.

As for being difficult to provide public messaging to the public due to misleading information (your point), the truth as you have just demonstrated, is that the public health authorities are spreading misleading information for public policy reasons. For example, the vaccines were 99.5% effective against severe disease. This holds for months to encourage vaccination. Suddenly, they are 85% effective in July. The media is slow to report this as encouraging vaccination is still the message. Suddenly, once the push is boosters and staying safe, the public health authorities and media are vocal about the 85%.

---

Why do you keep saying 99.5%? Did I use that number? Did someone else? I just said 0.5% of hospitalizations were breakthrough infections according to the NYT for the stated period. That's not the same thing as 99.5% effective because it doesn't account for vaccination rates changing over the period. I think the effectiveness against severe disease had always been communicated in the mid 90's. Obviously a combination of Delta and waning has changed that. There are other relevant factors like age and whether you are immuno compromised.

You seem to be spinning things to fit your agenda.

---

Stating that only .05% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda.

---

Incredibly disingenuous to ignore all of the context I provided around the data. I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, but it's still weak.

Also it's not 0.05%. Orders of magnitude make a difference.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

---

The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations.

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe.

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

---

I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. Imagine that.

---

Absolutely agree that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is vaccination. No doubt about it. Pfizer, even with waning protection, still protects 17 out of 20 vs those unvaccinated.

Completely disagree with any implication that these vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease. These misleading facts make it difficult to enforce mask wearing at my work, despite county ordinance. Yesterday, I asked an employee to pull his mask back up while in a conference room meeting with 5 other people. He told me he couldn't spread what he doesn't have because he is vaccinated.

Only people that pay attention realize there are still dangers if vaccinated.

---

Agreed. It's unfortunate how difficult it is to communicate challenging public health messages to the public, particularly when there is so much irresponsible disinformation out there.

I didn't say that the vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease by the way, I jut reported that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people. I'm sure the current percentage is higher but risk isn't absolute. For the small number of immuno compromised people it could be much higher. For those who already had COVID and are vaccinated it could be lower. Underlying conditions also have an impact.

And of course even mild cases of COVID can have long-term implications for the infected. Not to mention the risk of spreading to children who aren't yet eligible for vaccination.

---

Since we are talking about the current risk of breakthrough infection and severe disease in vaccinated people, what is the point of reporting that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people? You are spreading factual, but misleading information.

As for being difficult to provide public messaging to the public due to misleading information (your point), the truth as you have just demonstrated, is that the public health authorities are spreading misleading information for public policy reasons. For example, the vaccines were 99.5% effective against severe disease. This holds for months to encourage vaccination. Suddenly, they are 85% effective in July. The media is slow to report this as encouraging vaccination is still the message. Suddenly, once the push is boosters and staying safe, the public health authorities and media are vocal about the 85%.

---

Why do you keep saying 99.5%? Did I use that number? Did someone else? I just said 0.5% of hospitalizations were breakthrough infections according to the NYT for the stated period. That's not the same thing as 99.5% effective because it doesn't account for vaccination rates changing over the period. I think the effectiveness against severe disease had always been communicated in the mid 90's. Obviously a combination of Delta and waning has changed that. There are other relevant factors like age and whether you are immuno compromised.

You seem to be spinning things to fit your agenda.

---

Stating that only .05% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda.

---

Incredibly disingenuous to ignore all of the context I provided around the data. I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, but it's still weak.

Also it's not 0.05%. Orders of magnitude make a difference.

---

Stating that only .5% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda.

I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, and it's weak.

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss?

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID.

Is it a lot in the abstract? Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID.

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination.

---

There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. How many are breakthroughs? Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. Is it?

---

If I could find that data I would share it. Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked.

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent.

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time.

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now.

---

The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations.

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe.

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

---

I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. Imagine that.

---

Absolutely agree that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is vaccination. No doubt about it. Pfizer, even with waning protection, still protects 17 out of 20 vs those unvaccinated.

Completely disagree with any implication that these vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease. These misleading facts make it difficult to enforce mask wearing at my work, despite county ordinance. Yesterday, I asked an employee to pull his mask back up while in a conference room meeting with 5 other people. He told me he couldn't spread what he doesn't have because he is vaccinated.

Only people that pay attention realize there are still dangers if vaccinated.

---

Agreed. It's unfortunate how difficult it is to communicate challenging public health messages to the public, particularly when there is so much irresponsible disinformation out there.

I didn't say that the vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease by the way, I jut reported that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people. I'm sure the current percentage is higher but risk isn't absolute. For the small number of immuno compromised people it could be much higher. For those who already had COVID and are vaccinated it could be lower. Underlying conditions also have an impact.

And of course even mild cases of COVID can have long-term implications for the infected. Not to mention the risk of spreading to children who aren't yet eligible for vaccination.

---

Since we are talking about the current risk of breakthrough infection and severe disease in vaccinated people, what is the point of reporting that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people? You are spreading factual, but misleading information.

As for being difficult to provide public messaging to the public due to misleading information (your point), the truth as you have just demonstrated, is that the public health authorities are spreading misleading information for public policy reasons. For example, the vaccines were 99.5% effective against severe disease. This holds for months to encourage vaccination. Suddenly, they are 85% effective in July. The media is slow to report this as encouraging vaccination is still the message. Suddenly, once the push is boosters and staying safe, the public health authorities and media are vocal about the 85%.

---

Why do you keep saying 99.5%? Did I use that number? Did someone else? I just said 0.5% of hospitalizations were breakthrough infections according to the NYT for the stated period. That's not the same thing as 99.5% effective because it doesn't account for vaccination rates changing over the period. I think the effectiveness against severe disease had always been communicated in the mid 90's. Obviously a combination of Delta and waning has changed that. There are other relevant factors like age and whether you are immuno compromised.

You seem to be spinning things to fit your agenda.

---

Stating that only .05% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda.

---

Incredibly disingenuous to ignore all of the context I provided around the data. I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, but it's still weak.

Also it's not 0.05%. Orders of magnitude make a difference.

---

Stating that only .5% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda.

I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, and it's weak.

---

You obviously have an aversion to reality as evidenced by your continued misrepresentation of my statements but that's nothing new for you. I expect you to continue to become more desperate in your lies to promote your agenda because with each passing day the uncertainty that you had hoped to rely on for your false and misleading claims is diminished.

The mRNA vaccines are safe and effective. They've saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US and may save millions more. Everyone eligible should get one if they want to reduce their risk of hospitalization and death. If they would prefer to sacrifice themselves on an alter of unfounded fear and partisan idiocy, they should listen to people like you.

Do not fly any American Airlines flights their plane cleaners have tested for it and or been exposed ( households with confirmed positive) and are still working smh

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig is not fully vaccinated. He's had one shot.

If you're fully vaccinated you should be fine to live your life with minor precautions.

---

I think you (and a lot of other people, too, to be fair) are overconfident in the protections that the vaccine affords you.

---

What protections do you think I think it gives me?

Also, have you gotten your second shot yet?

---

There are plenty of breakthrough cases that have gotten people sick and even landed them in the hospital.

---

You sure about that boss? %A0

According to the CDC, around 2,000 fully vaccinated individuals under the age of 65 have been hospitalized with COVID. %A0We don't have the exact breakout, but around 20-25% of all breakthrough hospitalizations/deaths (including 65+ crowd) are for asymptomatic cases or are considered unrelated to COVID. %A0So perhaps 1500-1700 total cases thus far of fully vaccinated Americans under 65 who have had serious cases of COVID. %A0

Is it a lot in the abstract? %A0Or in a relative sense?

According to the CDC, about 75% of the 167 million fully vaccinated Americans are under 65, or about 125 million. %A0So we are talking about 1 to 1.5 out of every 100k fully vaccinated Americans under 65 having been hospitalized for COVID. %A0

Right now we are averaging 10k new hospital admissions every day. %A0Almost all of those are for non-vaccinated Americans. %A0 So to put things in perspective, around half the country is vaccinated and EVERY SINGLE DAY five times as many unvaccinated Americans are being admitted to the hospital for COVID as have all vaccinated Americans combined over the past several months since we started vaccinating people. %A0That seems like a pretty strong endorsement for vaccination. %A0

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There are 10k Covid Hospitalizations per day, per your post. %A0How many are breakthroughs? %A0Why is one set of data cumulative, yet the other current? %A0It would be much easier to analyze the data if it were consistent.

There were 709 deaths yesterday, how many were breakthroughs? %A0There is no reason why this shouldn't be available. %A0Is it?

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If I could find that data I would share it. %A0Unfortunately our health data infrastructure is horrible so I had to cobble together my data from different CDC sources, which I linked. %A0

My understanding is that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are for immune compromised people (including 65+). %A0 What that translates into in terms of daily numbers I could only speculate but I doubt it would be more than a few percent. %A0

The NYT has a page where they show how it's going in each state: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html

As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time. %A0

Infection numbers are far rosy for vaccines right now. %A0

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The California number at the end of your post is great, but 100% irrelevant for many reasons. %A0Most people were fully vaccinated in May or later, so cumulative data before vax or during peak immunity, most of which is pre-Delta, is irrelevant.

There is no reason why your sources, such as the CDC, can provide up to date accumulated data on breakthrough cases over all, up to date accumulated data on breakthrough hospitalizations and daily hospitalizations, yet fail to provide daily breakthrough hospitalizations. %A0

For example, why does your California number show 99.5% effectiveness against serious illness: answer: timeframe. %A0

Also, just like how the vast majority of breakthrough hospitalizations are for those 65+, the vast majority of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+ as well.

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I agree with you in wanting more relevant data.

I don't agree that the "vast majority" of unvaccinated hospitalizations are for those 65+. %A0It seems that 18-49 make up the biggest proportion. %A0The (obvious) reason is because people over 65 have the highest vaccination rates. %A0See here for CDC data showing age cohorts over time: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

The impact of vaccines is quite obvious as the 65+ cohort shrinks as a percentage of total hospitalizations with each subsequent period. %A0Turns out that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is whether you've been vaccinated or not. %A0Imagine that. %A0

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Absolutely agree that the biggest risk factor for hospitalizations is vaccination. %A0No doubt about it. %A0Pfizer, even with waning protection, still protects 17 out of 20 vs those unvaccinated. %A0

Completely disagree with any implication that these vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease. %A0These misleading facts make it difficult to enforce mask wearing at my work, despite county ordinance. %A0Yesterday, I asked an employee to pull his mask back up while in a conference room meeting with 5 other people. %A0He told me he couldn't spread what he doesn't have because he is vaccinated. %A0

Only people that pay attention realize there are still dangers if vaccinated.

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Agreed. %A0It's unfortunate how difficult it is to communicate challenging public health messages to the public, particularly when there is so much irresponsible disinformation out there. %A0

I didn't say that the vaccines protect 99.5% against severe disease by the way, I jut reported that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people. %A0I'm sure the current percentage is higher but risk isn't absolute. %A0For the small number of immuno compromised people it could be much higher. %A0For those who already had COVID and are vaccinated it could be lower. %A0Underlying conditions also have an impact. %A0

And of course even mild cases of COVID can have long-term implications for the infected. %A0 Not to mention the risk of spreading to children who aren't yet eligible for vaccination. %A0

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Since we are talking about the current risk of breakthrough infection and severe disease in vaccinated people, what is the point of reporting that 0.5% of hospitalizations in CA since vaccinations started have been vaccinated people? You are spreading factual, but misleading information.

As for being difficult to provide public messaging to the public due to misleading information (your point), the truth as you have just demonstrated, is that the public health authorities are spreading misleading information for public policy reasons. %A0For example, the vaccines were 99.5% effective against severe disease. %A0This holds for months to encourage vaccination. %A0Suddenly, they are 85% effective in July. %A0The media is slow to report this as encouraging vaccination is still the message. %A0Suddenly, once the push is boosters and staying safe, the public health authorities and media are vocal about the 85%.

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Why do you keep saying 99.5%? Did I use that number? Did someone else? I just said 0.5% of hospitalizations were breakthrough infections according to the NYT for the stated period. %A0That's not the same thing as 99.5% effective because it doesn't account for vaccination rates changing over the period. %A0I think the effectiveness against severe disease had always been communicated in the mid 90's. %A0 Obviously a combination of Delta and waning has changed that. %A0There are other relevant factors like age and whether you are immuno compromised. %A0

You seem to be spinning things to fit your agenda.

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Stating that only .05% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda. %A0

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Incredibly disingenuous to ignore all of the context I provided around the data. %A0I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, but it's still weak. %A0

Also it's not 0.05%. %A0Orders of magnitude make a difference. %A0

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Stating that only .5% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated is spinning things to fit your agenda.

I know you feel you need to do this to advance your agenda, and it's weak. %A0

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You obviously have an aversion to reality as evidenced by your continued misrepresentation of my statements but that's nothing new for you. %A0 I expect you to continue to become more desperate in your lies to promote your agenda because with each passing day the uncertainty that you had hoped to rely on for your false and misleading claims is diminished. %A0

The mRNA vaccines are safe and effective. %A0They've saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US and may save millions more. %A0Everyone eligible should get one if they want to reduce their risk of hospitalization and death. %A0If they would prefer to sacrifice themselves on an alter of unfounded fear and partisan idiocy, they should listen to people like you. %A0

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There is zero misrepresentations of your statements. %A0You stated that only .5% of hospitalizations have been vaccinated in a conversation about current risks for those vaccinated. %A0You were being misleading.

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False, that's not even close to what happened, but you thrive on misinformation so I'm not surprised you would misrepresent the conversation.

In the relevant exchange, I cobbled together some data from the CDC to provide some context on what was going on.%A0 This was in response to dimitrig's claim regarding the number of breakthrough hospitalizations.%A0%A0 You lamented the quality of the data, which I agreed with.%A0 You asked for consistent data (eg cumulative or current, but not a mix of the two) and I responded that it's hard to locate but that I able to find a somewhat relevant NYT article which posted state by state data.%A0 I then said the following: "As you can see, in California about 0.5% of all hospitalizations since vaccinations began are breakthrough cases but that doesn't show how it may be changing over time. "

For you to now pretend like I came up out of the blue and said 0.5% (or 0.05% as in your prior uncorrected post) without any context is pretty much your stock and trade now.%A0 You don't have any strong arguments so you just twist what other people say and you provide your own false or misleading claims.%A0%A0

When I find better data, I will post it.%A0 What I would like to see is data showing hospitalizations and deaths across different age cohorts for both vaccinated and unvaccinated.%A0 In a perfect world, we would be able to cut it by immuno compromised status, because that appears to be a significant risk factor, but I doubt we will have that level of detail.

19 Covid cases in Contra Costa County hospitals on May 14. 204 today. Cases have been trending down lately because of indoor mask mandate.

bearister said:

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19 Covid cases in Contra Costa County hospitals on May 14. 204 today. Cases have been trending down lately because of indoor mask mandate.

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Masks don't work.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR8S66WG/

dimitrig said:

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bearister said:

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19 Covid cases in Contra Costa County hospitals on May 14. 204 today. Cases have been trending down lately because of indoor mask mandate.

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Masks don't work.

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Haha. I love that the biggest proclaimers of the "masks don't work" mantra are the Basket of Deplorables that have never worn them.

dimitrig said:

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bearister said:

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19 Covid cases in Contra Costa County hospitals on May 14. 204 today. Cases have been trending down lately because of indoor mask mandate.

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Masks don't work.

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Masks work. They are not for the wearer but those around you.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

Stay safe.

What is clear is that "breakthrough" cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. "There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated," says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government. "One of the big stories from Israel [is]: 'Vaccines work, but not well enough.'"

"A longer gap between doses of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine leads to higher overall antibody levels than a shorter gap, a British study found on Friday, but antibody levels are not sustained for long after the first dose.

The study might help inform vaccination strategies against the Delta variant, which reduces the effectiveness of a first dose of the vaccine even though two doses are still protective, and one author said that Britain's eight-week gap was a "sweet spot" against Delta.

The authors emphasised that either dosing schedule produced a strong antibody and T-cell response in the study of 503 healthcare workers.

"For the longer dosing interval ... neutralising antibody levels against the Delta variant were poorly induced after a single dose, and not maintained during the interval before the second dose," the authors of the study, which is being led by the University of Oxford, said.

"Following two vaccine doses, neutralising antibody levels were twice as high after the longer dosing interval compared with the shorter dosing interval."

Neutralising antibodies are thought to play an important role in immunity against the coronavirus, but are not the whole picture, with T-cells also playing a part.

The study found overall T-cell levels were 1.6 times lower with a long gap compared with the short dosing interval of 3-4 weeks, but that a higher proportion were "helper" T-cells, which support long-term immune memory, with the long gap.

"While we tend to emphasise neutralising antibodies as a measure of the immune response ... cellular immunity, which is harder to measure, is also likely to be very important," said Peter English, former chair of the BMA Public Health Medicine Committee.

The findings, issued as a pre-print, support the view that, while a second dose is needed to provide full protection against Delta, delaying that dose might provide more durable immunity, even if it is at the cost of protection in the short-term.

Last December, Britain extended the interval between vaccine doses to 12 weeks, although Pfizer warned there was no evidence to support a move away from a three-week gap.

Britain now recommends an eight-week gap between vaccine doses to give more people high protection against Delta more quickly, while still maximising immune responses in the longer term.

"I think the eight-week (interval) is about the sweet spot," Susanna Dunachie, joint chief investigator on the study, told reporters.

(Source: Spacing Pfizer COVID shots boosts antibody levels in long-term study)