BearGoggles said:

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mdstastrn37 said:

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I'm an LA native that went to Cal at the same time JG was playing, never had a football team to root for until he was drafted by the Rams, went all in as a fan during his run as QB, then adopted a second team after the Lions trade. I have watched almost all of his snaps in his collegiate and pro career.

The amount of negative baggage that sticks to him is really baffling to me. If you were to erase the names and rooting allegiances of fans and replace his name with the likes of Burrow or Lawrence and analyze the first 7 years of a career, the narrative would be completely different.

He had 7 horrendous games as a starter at the end of 2016 with the worst offensive coaching in the league, turned around the whole narrative in 2017 with McVay the next year as a Pro Bowler with top 8 QB play consistently throughout the season, led an historic offense in 2018 when his top two offensive weapons were healthy/available (Kupp injured late in the season, then Gurley basically cooked in the playoffs), went to New Orleans on the road in the championship game and gutted out an improbable win.

In 2019 Gurley was a borderline practice squad player due to injury and they had a bottom 3 offensive line, yet they managed a winning record barely missing the playoffs. In 2020 the line still sucked (I don't care what PFF says), and they made it to the playoffs, he won a playoff game with a surgically repaired thumb, but didn't have enough to win in Lambeau the following game.

Skipping over the past two years with the Lions, knowing what we know about how it has developed, the stigma attached to him is still insane to me.

The only reasons I can think of is because he doesn't "look" like a traditional beefy QB, and that the height of predictions and social media regarding quarterback drafting/busts was when sports Twitter became a thing in 2016. All of those narratives stuck and people can't get rid of them.

---

A lot of it has to do with the way McVay aggrandized himself and scapegoated Goff. McVay is a jerk.

And let's talk about character. Goff handles MASSIVE adversity in his early years at Cal and first year with the Rams. Gets traded in stunning (and humiliating) fashion, maintains his positivity, invests in his new team/community, and contributes to the shocking turnaround and cultural change of a long moribund Lions franchise, absorbing lots of lumps along the way. Never complains, always classy and accountable.

Meanwhile, McVay threatens to quit because he's encountered adversity/failure and has run out of people to blame. Absolute lack of character to be pulling this crap every offseason.

In the right system, with the right players around him, Goff is a very good qb. Maybe not elite, but certainly good enough to win a super bowl. Detroit has done a great job of building a dominant OL and complimentary scheme. They need to continue adding on defense and they should be set up for a great run - I'll be watching as long as Goff is there.

---

I totally agree with you on the overall sentiment, but McVay will and should be a Rams legend. When he was all in developing Goff along with Zac Taylor and Matt LafLeur they were a force.

The problem is that JG did not have a consistent OC there with him because teams were poaching their coaching talent left and right, and at the same time McVay wanted to expand his role beyond just being an offensive specialist head coach. I was a sickly obsessed Rams fan throughout those years, and listened to countless hours of practice/mid-week/postgame interviews of the players from 2016-2020, and the veterans talked about McVay wanting to take more control of all sides of the ball, especially defensively. He delegated the day-to-day development to his really talented coordinators, but lost sight of being hands on of what he does best, leaving Goff to have to reset damn near every year with new OC leadership.

philbert said:

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I watched the postgame show on Amazon one Thursday (think it was the one where the Rams won with Mayfield at QB). The former Rams OT (Andrew W.) said McVay regretted not giving feedback to Goff on what he thought he was doing wrong vs just getting angry at him for not doing what he wanted. So McVay might be a great playcaller and offensive schemer, but sounds like he was actually a terrible coach.

Hope Goff can keep his current OC for at least another year.

---

I am not surprised by this at all. Don't want to repeat myself too much, but as a hardcore Rams fan listening to radio coaches interviews etc. every week, I was sometimes surprised by the amount of trivial reporting and minutia McVay was on top of all the time (stuff like viral posts, outside feedback on his team and beyond). He strikes me as as a guy that is really good because he is obsessive to a fault, especially when it comes to his own image and team.

It's no wonder the guy is so burnt out. I don't think he can turn off internal and external feedback despite being at the top of his profession. Belichick and Andy Reid can, but McVay is cursed as a high strung alpha millennial that does not know how to detach from real life and social media pressures.

I will also add that Brad Holmes has the personability of Les Snead with 5 times the scouting talent, so I am happy JG is with the guy who drafted him and knows how to build around his skill set. Dude is a stud GM.

BearGoggles said:

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mdstastrn37 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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mdstastrn37 said:

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I'm an LA native that went to Cal at the same time JG was playing, never had a football team to root for until he was drafted by the Rams, went all in as a fan during his run as QB, then adopted a second team after the Lions trade. I have watched almost all of his snaps in his collegiate and pro career.

The amount of negative baggage that sticks to him is really baffling to me. If you were to erase the names and rooting allegiances of fans and replace his name with the likes of Burrow or Lawrence and analyze the first 7 years of a career, the narrative would be completely different.

He had 7 horrendous games as a starter at the end of 2016 with the worst offensive coaching in the league, turned around the whole narrative in 2017 with McVay the next year as a Pro Bowler with top 8 QB play consistently throughout the season, led an historic offense in 2018 when his top two offensive weapons were healthy/available (Kupp injured late in the season, then Gurley basically cooked in the playoffs), went to New Orleans on the road in the championship game and gutted out an improbable win.

In 2019 Gurley was a borderline practice squad player due to injury and they had a bottom 3 offensive line, yet they managed a winning record barely missing the playoffs. In 2020 the line still sucked (I don't care what PFF says), and they made it to the playoffs, he won a playoff game with a surgically repaired thumb, but didn't have enough to win in Lambeau the following game.

Skipping over the past two years with the Lions, knowing what we know about how it has developed, the stigma attached to him is still insane to me.

The only reasons I can think of is because he doesn't "look" like a traditional beefy QB, and that the height of predictions and social media regarding quarterback drafting/busts was when sports Twitter became a thing in 2016. All of those narratives stuck and people can't get rid of them.

---

A lot of it has to do with the way McVay aggrandized himself and scapegoated Goff. McVay is a jerk.

And let's talk about character. Goff handles MASSIVE adversity in his early years at Cal and first year with the Rams. Gets traded in stunning (and humiliating) fashion, maintains his positivity, invests in his new team/community, and contributes to the shocking turnaround and cultural change of a long moribund Lions franchise, absorbing lots of lumps along the way. Never complains, always classy and accountable.

Meanwhile, McVay threatens to quit because he's encountered adversity/failure and has run out of people to blame. Absolute lack of character to be pulling this crap every offseason.

In the right system, with the right players around him, Goff is a very good qb. Maybe not elite, but certainly good enough to win a super bowl. Detroit has done a great job of building a dominant OL and complimentary scheme. They need to continue adding on defense and they should be set up for a great run - I'll be watching as long as Goff is there.

---

I totally agree with you on the overall sentiment, but McVay will and should be a Rams legend. When he was all in developing Goff along with Zac Taylor and Matt LafLeur they were a force.

The problem is that JG did not have a consistent OC there with him because teams were poaching their coaching talent left and right, and at the same time McVay wanted to expand his role beyond just being an offensive specialist head coach. I was a sickly obsessed Rams fan throughout those years, and listened to countless hours of practice/mid-week/postgame interviews of the players from 2016-2020, and the veterans talked about McVay wanting to take more control of all sides of the ball, especially defensively. He delegated the day-to-day development to his really talented coordinators, but lost sight of being hands on of what he does best, leaving Goff to have to reset damn near every year with new OC leadership.

---

McVay may be a good offensive coach, but he's a lousy person and has terrible character for the reasons I stated. Quitting because you had a bad season? He's also arrogant and like the ancient Greeks, Rams front office hubris has been their downfall with a lot of the decision making (e.g., using second round picks to draft a 5th string receiver (Atwell) or rb (Akers) rather than building an OL to help Goff).

If McVay has been such a great coach, how come he's never been able (or willing) to develop a backup qb? Contrast the Rams with SFO/Shanahan (who I think is a great head coach). SFO's rookie third or fourth string backup played better than the rams backups who have been universally awful under McVay. When Stafford predictably got hurt due to the porous OL, why wasn't there a decent backup?

In terms of your post, I think it rings partly true. But at the end of the day, Goff played pretty damn well and when things went wrong, McVay scapegoated the guy rather than say drafting a OT to replace Whitworth which would have put Goff in a position to succeed.

The rams went all in to win a SB - they did so good for them. Stafford played well. But they've also drafted stupidly and now, when its time to pay the bill, McVay wants to bail?

And FWIW, I grew up a die hard rams fan until they moved to St. Louis which broke my fandom. Was lukewarm when they moved back, but jumped on board when they drafted Goff. But screw McVay - I think he's a huge jerk. Go Chargers!

---

I think this is the pitfall of having a young head coach.

McVay wanted to have the glory of being the QB. Of course, he didn't outright say it. But he basically made it look like he was playing Madden with Goff that Goff was a brainless arm. I remember Sunday Night Football would on more than one occasion, shrink the screen when Goff was throwing and show a little box with McVay's face as Cris Collinsworth celebrated McVay's genius whispering in Goff's ears.

And since McVay was very media friendly and very "humble," the media promoted a narrative that made it seem like 75% of the Goff being great was McVay and 90% of Goff being terrible was on Goff.

And what could Goff do? Reporters would literally ask him about the accusations that he was a brainless arm (they wouldn't put it in those terms). And Goff would humbly say something along the lines of "I don't care...as long as we're winning."

And the thing is McVay is truly valuable to Goff's career. He did indeed save it. Goff can't complain about McVay. Goff was coming from a rookie season where the offensive coordinator has a total of 4 games experience calling plays and a QB coach with 1 year experience. McVay realized that and quickly surrounded Goff with experience.

Because of Goff's improvement, he was viewed as mediocre QB that McVay made to look good.

I remember early in Goff's 2nd (breakout) season, ESPN's Bill Barnwell wrote an article about how since McVay is so good at making an ordinary QB look extraordinary, they should dump Goff when he gets expensive and draft a new QB to make great and repeat the cycle every few years.

I think Goff's relationship with McVay ended up being a toxic one. Because Goff could never be his own man. His success would always have little to do with him. Maybe that affected his play toward the end. Maybe it was the new contract. Who knows?

Goff ended up with the Lions in a similar situation that he had his first year with the Rams: his offensive coordinator Anthony Lynn, despite having been a head coach and despite briefly serving as an interim offensive coordinator, had very little playcalling experience. Then Goff ended up with Mark Brunell as his QB coach. Despite Brunell having played QB in the NFL, he had been coaching high school for a decade.

Things improved late last season when Ben Johnson replaced Lynn. Johnson may not be experienced, but he is good at calling plays. But you sort of get the sense from people in certain parts of the media that, it's not Goff who's been terrific, it's Johnson.
Also, I don't think Goff gets enough credit for his leadership qualities. As said above, Goff doesn't "look the part."

Anyways, I'm glad Goff got out of the Lions. And he looks grateful for it, too. He needed to establish himself and make it clear that he was his own man and not a brainless arm.

BearGoggles said:

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mdstastrn37 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

mdstastrn37 said:

---

I'm an LA native that went to Cal at the same time JG was playing, never had a football team to root for until he was drafted by the Rams, went all in as a fan during his run as QB, then adopted a second team after the Lions trade. I have watched almost all of his snaps in his collegiate and pro career.

The amount of negative baggage that sticks to him is really baffling to me. If you were to erase the names and rooting allegiances of fans and replace his name with the likes of Burrow or Lawrence and analyze the first 7 years of a career, the narrative would be completely different.

He had 7 horrendous games as a starter at the end of 2016 with the worst offensive coaching in the league, turned around the whole narrative in 2017 with McVay the next year as a Pro Bowler with top 8 QB play consistently throughout the season, led an historic offense in 2018 when his top two offensive weapons were healthy/available (Kupp injured late in the season, then Gurley basically cooked in the playoffs), went to New Orleans on the road in the championship game and gutted out an improbable win.

In 2019 Gurley was a borderline practice squad player due to injury and they had a bottom 3 offensive line, yet they managed a winning record barely missing the playoffs. In 2020 the line still sucked (I don't care what PFF says), and they made it to the playoffs, he won a playoff game with a surgically repaired thumb, but didn't have enough to win in Lambeau the following game.

Skipping over the past two years with the Lions, knowing what we know about how it has developed, the stigma attached to him is still insane to me.

The only reasons I can think of is because he doesn't "look" like a traditional beefy QB, and that the height of predictions and social media regarding quarterback drafting/busts was when sports Twitter became a thing in 2016. All of those narratives stuck and people can't get rid of them.

---

A lot of it has to do with the way McVay aggrandized himself and scapegoated Goff. McVay is a jerk.

And let's talk about character. Goff handles MASSIVE adversity in his early years at Cal and first year with the Rams. Gets traded in stunning (and humiliating) fashion, maintains his positivity, invests in his new team/community, and contributes to the shocking turnaround and cultural change of a long moribund Lions franchise, absorbing lots of lumps along the way. Never complains, always classy and accountable.

Meanwhile, McVay threatens to quit because he's encountered adversity/failure and has run out of people to blame. Absolute lack of character to be pulling this crap every offseason.

In the right system, with the right players around him, Goff is a very good qb. Maybe not elite, but certainly good enough to win a super bowl. Detroit has done a great job of building a dominant OL and complimentary scheme. They need to continue adding on defense and they should be set up for a great run - I'll be watching as long as Goff is there.

---

I totally agree with you on the overall sentiment, but McVay will and should be a Rams legend. When he was all in developing Goff along with Zac Taylor and Matt LafLeur they were a force.

The problem is that JG did not have a consistent OC there with him because teams were poaching their coaching talent left and right, and at the same time McVay wanted to expand his role beyond just being an offensive specialist head coach. I was a sickly obsessed Rams fan throughout those years, and listened to countless hours of practice/mid-week/postgame interviews of the players from 2016-2020, and the veterans talked about McVay wanting to take more control of all sides of the ball, especially defensively. He delegated the day-to-day development to his really talented coordinators, but lost sight of being hands on of what he does best, leaving Goff to have to reset damn near every year with new OC leadership.

---

McVay may be a good offensive coach, but he's a lousy person and has terrible character for the reasons I stated. Quitting because you had a bad season? He's also arrogant and like the ancient Greeks, Rams front office hubris has been their downfall with a lot of the decision making (e.g., using second round picks to draft a 5th string receiver (Atwell) or rb (Akers) rather than building an OL to help Goff).

If McVay has been such a great coach, how come he's never been able (or willing) to develop a backup qb? Contrast the Rams with SFO/Shanahan (who I think is a great head coach). SFO's rookie third or fourth string backup played better than the rams backups who have been universally awful under McVay. When Stafford predictably got hurt due to the porous OL, why wasn't there a decent backup?

In terms of your post, I think it rings partly true. But at the end of the day, Goff played pretty damn well and when things went wrong, McVay scapegoated the guy rather than say drafting a OT to replace Whitworth which would have put Goff in a position to succeed.

The rams went all in to win a SB - they did so good for them. Stafford played well. But they've also drafted stupidly and now, when its time to pay the bill, McVay wants to bail?

And FWIW, I grew up a die hard rams fan until they moved to St. Louis which broke my fandom. Was lukewarm when they moved back, but jumped on board when they drafted Goff. But screw McVay - I think he's a huge jerk. Go Chargers!

---

McVay is a brilliant tactician/strategist but a horrible coach in that he does not develop talent. In fact, he bankrupted the future of the Rams by trading away young talent and draft choices. (He is George Allen on steroids.) McVay is no idiot; he knows he mortgaged the team's future and his reputation will tarnish if he doesn't jump ship. And, as some have noted, he is running out of scapegoats.

FWIW, I was also a diehard Rams fan until Georgia took them across the Orange curtain. And I hated them when they went to St. Louis. I supported them when they returned and became a big fan (again) when they drafted Goff. Now, I cheer when they lose (though I was hoping they would beat Seattle last weekend for obvious reasons).

Go Packers!
Go Lions!
Go Chargers!
Go Giants (when Webb is playing)!

southseasbear said:

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BearGoggles said:

---

mdstastrn37 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

mdstastrn37 said:

---

I'm an LA native that went to Cal at the same time JG was playing, never had a football team to root for until he was drafted by the Rams, went all in as a fan during his run as QB, then adopted a second team after the Lions trade. I have watched almost all of his snaps in his collegiate and pro career.

The amount of negative baggage that sticks to him is really baffling to me. If you were to erase the names and rooting allegiances of fans and replace his name with the likes of Burrow or Lawrence and analyze the first 7 years of a career, the narrative would be completely different.

He had 7 horrendous games as a starter at the end of 2016 with the worst offensive coaching in the league, turned around the whole narrative in 2017 with McVay the next year as a Pro Bowler with top 8 QB play consistently throughout the season, led an historic offense in 2018 when his top two offensive weapons were healthy/available (Kupp injured late in the season, then Gurley basically cooked in the playoffs), went to New Orleans on the road in the championship game and gutted out an improbable win.

In 2019 Gurley was a borderline practice squad player due to injury and they had a bottom 3 offensive line, yet they managed a winning record barely missing the playoffs. In 2020 the line still sucked (I don't care what PFF says), and they made it to the playoffs, he won a playoff game with a surgically repaired thumb, but didn't have enough to win in Lambeau the following game.

Skipping over the past two years with the Lions, knowing what we know about how it has developed, the stigma attached to him is still insane to me.

The only reasons I can think of is because he doesn't "look" like a traditional beefy QB, and that the height of predictions and social media regarding quarterback drafting/busts was when sports Twitter became a thing in 2016. All of those narratives stuck and people can't get rid of them.

---

A lot of it has to do with the way McVay aggrandized himself and scapegoated Goff. McVay is a jerk.

And let's talk about character. Goff handles MASSIVE adversity in his early years at Cal and first year with the Rams. Gets traded in stunning (and humiliating) fashion, maintains his positivity, invests in his new team/community, and contributes to the shocking turnaround and cultural change of a long moribund Lions franchise, absorbing lots of lumps along the way. Never complains, always classy and accountable.

Meanwhile, McVay threatens to quit because he's encountered adversity/failure and has run out of people to blame. Absolute lack of character to be pulling this crap every offseason.

In the right system, with the right players around him, Goff is a very good qb. Maybe not elite, but certainly good enough to win a super bowl. Detroit has done a great job of building a dominant OL and complimentary scheme. They need to continue adding on defense and they should be set up for a great run - I'll be watching as long as Goff is there.

---

I totally agree with you on the overall sentiment, but McVay will and should be a Rams legend. When he was all in developing Goff along with Zac Taylor and Matt LafLeur they were a force.

The problem is that JG did not have a consistent OC there with him because teams were poaching their coaching talent left and right, and at the same time McVay wanted to expand his role beyond just being an offensive specialist head coach. I was a sickly obsessed Rams fan throughout those years, and listened to countless hours of practice/mid-week/postgame interviews of the players from 2016-2020, and the veterans talked about McVay wanting to take more control of all sides of the ball, especially defensively. He delegated the day-to-day development to his really talented coordinators, but lost sight of being hands on of what he does best, leaving Goff to have to reset damn near every year with new OC leadership.

---

McVay may be a good offensive coach, but he's a lousy person and has terrible character for the reasons I stated. Quitting because you had a bad season? He's also arrogant and like the ancient Greeks, Rams front office hubris has been their downfall with a lot of the decision making (e.g., using second round picks to draft a 5th string receiver (Atwell) or rb (Akers) rather than building an OL to help Goff).

If McVay has been such a great coach, how come he's never been able (or willing) to develop a backup qb? Contrast the Rams with SFO/Shanahan (who I think is a great head coach). SFO's rookie third or fourth string backup played better than the rams backups who have been universally awful under McVay. When Stafford predictably got hurt due to the porous OL, why wasn't there a decent backup?

In terms of your post, I think it rings partly true. But at the end of the day, Goff played pretty damn well and when things went wrong, McVay scapegoated the guy rather than say drafting a OT to replace Whitworth which would have put Goff in a position to succeed.

The rams went all in to win a SB - they did so good for them. Stafford played well. But they've also drafted stupidly and now, when its time to pay the bill, McVay wants to bail?

And FWIW, I grew up a die hard rams fan until they moved to St. Louis which broke my fandom. Was lukewarm when they moved back, but jumped on board when they drafted Goff. But screw McVay - I think he's a huge jerk. Go Chargers!

---

McVay is a brilliant tactician/strategist but a horrible coach in that he does not develop talent. In fact, he bankrupted the future of the Rams by trading away young talent and draft choices. (He is George Allen on steroids.) McVay is no idiot; he knows he mortgaged the team's future and his reputation will tarnish if he doesn't jump ship. And, as some have noted, he is running out of scapegoats.

FWIW, I was also a diehard Rams fan until Georgia took them across the Orange curtain. And I hated them when they went to St. Louis. I supported them when they returned and became a big fan (again) when they drafted Goff. Now, I cheer when they lose (though I was hoping they would beat Seattle last weekend for obvious reasons).

Go Packers!
Go Lions!
Go Chargers!
Go Giants (when Webb is playing)!

---

This is a bit off-topic, but related: Why the hell didn't Kronke build SoFi to be rain-proof?

SoFi Stadium was built as an indoor/outdoor stadium but the floor is entirely too slippery tonight in the rain. Multiple people are slipping and falling and having to be helped out on stretchers. pic.twitter.com/j7awcw8Q8E

— Arash Markazi (@ArashMarkazi) January 10, 2023

okaydo said:

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SoFi Stadium was built as an indoor/outdoor stadium but the floor is entirely too slippery tonight in the rain. Multiple people are slipping and falling and having to be helped out on stretchers. pic.twitter.com/j7awcw8Q8E

— Arash Markazi (@ArashMarkazi) January 10, 2023

---

okaydo said:

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southseasbear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

mdstastrn37 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

mdstastrn37 said:

---

I'm an LA native that went to Cal at the same time JG was playing, never had a football team to root for until he was drafted by the Rams, went all in as a fan during his run as QB, then adopted a second team after the Lions trade. I have watched almost all of his snaps in his collegiate and pro career.

The amount of negative baggage that sticks to him is really baffling to me. If you were to erase the names and rooting allegiances of fans and replace his name with the likes of Burrow or Lawrence and analyze the first 7 years of a career, the narrative would be completely different.

He had 7 horrendous games as a starter at the end of 2016 with the worst offensive coaching in the league, turned around the whole narrative in 2017 with McVay the next year as a Pro Bowler with top 8 QB play consistently throughout the season, led an historic offense in 2018 when his top two offensive weapons were healthy/available (Kupp injured late in the season, then Gurley basically cooked in the playoffs), went to New Orleans on the road in the championship game and gutted out an improbable win.

In 2019 Gurley was a borderline practice squad player due to injury and they had a bottom 3 offensive line, yet they managed a winning record barely missing the playoffs. In 2020 the line still sucked (I don't care what PFF says), and they made it to the playoffs, he won a playoff game with a surgically repaired thumb, but didn't have enough to win in Lambeau the following game.

Skipping over the past two years with the Lions, knowing what we know about how it has developed, the stigma attached to him is still insane to me.

The only reasons I can think of is because he doesn't "look" like a traditional beefy QB, and that the height of predictions and social media regarding quarterback drafting/busts was when sports Twitter became a thing in 2016. All of those narratives stuck and people can't get rid of them.

---

A lot of it has to do with the way McVay aggrandized himself and scapegoated Goff. McVay is a jerk.

And let's talk about character. Goff handles MASSIVE adversity in his early years at Cal and first year with the Rams. Gets traded in stunning (and humiliating) fashion, maintains his positivity, invests in his new team/community, and contributes to the shocking turnaround and cultural change of a long moribund Lions franchise, absorbing lots of lumps along the way. Never complains, always classy and accountable.

Meanwhile, McVay threatens to quit because he's encountered adversity/failure and has run out of people to blame. Absolute lack of character to be pulling this crap every offseason.

In the right system, with the right players around him, Goff is a very good qb. Maybe not elite, but certainly good enough to win a super bowl. Detroit has done a great job of building a dominant OL and complimentary scheme. They need to continue adding on defense and they should be set up for a great run - I'll be watching as long as Goff is there.

---

I totally agree with you on the overall sentiment, but McVay will and should be a Rams legend. When he was all in developing Goff along with Zac Taylor and Matt LafLeur they were a force.

The problem is that JG did not have a consistent OC there with him because teams were poaching their coaching talent left and right, and at the same time McVay wanted to expand his role beyond just being an offensive specialist head coach. I was a sickly obsessed Rams fan throughout those years, and listened to countless hours of practice/mid-week/postgame interviews of the players from 2016-2020, and the veterans talked about McVay wanting to take more control of all sides of the ball, especially defensively. He delegated the day-to-day development to his really talented coordinators, but lost sight of being hands on of what he does best, leaving Goff to have to reset damn near every year with new OC leadership.

---

McVay may be a good offensive coach, but he's a lousy person and has terrible character for the reasons I stated. Quitting because you had a bad season? He's also arrogant and like the ancient Greeks, Rams front office hubris has been their downfall with a lot of the decision making (e.g., using second round picks to draft a 5th string receiver (Atwell) or rb (Akers) rather than building an OL to help Goff).

If McVay has been such a great coach, how come he's never been able (or willing) to develop a backup qb? Contrast the Rams with SFO/Shanahan (who I think is a great head coach). SFO's rookie third or fourth string backup played better than the rams backups who have been universally awful under McVay. When Stafford predictably got hurt due to the porous OL, why wasn't there a decent backup?

In terms of your post, I think it rings partly true. But at the end of the day, Goff played pretty damn well and when things went wrong, McVay scapegoated the guy rather than say drafting a OT to replace Whitworth which would have put Goff in a position to succeed.

The rams went all in to win a SB - they did so good for them. Stafford played well. But they've also drafted stupidly and now, when its time to pay the bill, McVay wants to bail?

And FWIW, I grew up a die hard rams fan until they moved to St. Louis which broke my fandom. Was lukewarm when they moved back, but jumped on board when they drafted Goff. But screw McVay - I think he's a huge jerk. Go Chargers!

---

McVay is a brilliant tactician/strategist but a horrible coach in that he does not develop talent. In fact, he bankrupted the future of the Rams by trading away young talent and draft choices. (He is George Allen on steroids.) McVay is no idiot; he knows he mortgaged the team's future and his reputation will tarnish if he doesn't jump ship. And, as some have noted, he is running out of scapegoats.

FWIW, I was also a diehard Rams fan until Georgia took them across the Orange curtain. And I hated them when they went to St. Louis. I supported them when they returned and became a big fan (again) when they drafted Goff. Now, I cheer when they lose (though I was hoping they would beat Seattle last weekend for obvious reasons).

Go Packers!
Go Lions!
Go Chargers!
Go Giants (when Webb is playing)!

---

This is a bit off-topic, but related: Why the hell didn't Kronke build SoFi to be rain-proof?

SoFi Stadium was built as an indoor/outdoor stadium but the floor is entirely too slippery tonight in the rain. Multiple people are slipping and falling and having to be helped out on stretchers. pic.twitter.com/j7awcw8Q8E

— Arash Markazi (@ArashMarkazi) January 10, 2023

---

Perhaps it is partially due to the fact that it was built in LA (a desert) during an epic drought.

Because SoFi Stadium has a roof but no walls, rain is only coming down on the upper deck of TCU fans.
pic.twitter.com/Mth1BcQQjM

— Front Office Sports (@FOS) January 10, 2023

Don't rain on my parade! Although maybe they've been praying for rain in Texas.

🎯🎯🎯@JaredGoff16 pic.twitter.com/e38IQc6hJu

— Detroit Lions (@Lions) January 10, 2023

I think you need therapy to help you fully express what you feel without mincing your words. Don't hold back. Tell us what you really feel.


*But you have to admit, Justin Herbert is a very good QB and warrior.

mdstastrn37 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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mdstastrn37 said:

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I'm an LA native that went to Cal at the same time JG was playing, never had a football team to root for until he was drafted by the Rams, went all in as a fan during his run as QB, then adopted a second team after the Lions trade. I have watched almost all of his snaps in his collegiate and pro career.

---

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I totally agree with you on the overall sentiment, but McVay will and should be a Rams legend. When he was all in developing Goff along with Zac Taylor and Matt LafLeur they were a force.

The problem is that JG did not have a consistent OC there with him because teams were poaching their coaching talent left and right, and at the same time McVay wanted to expand his role beyond just being an offensive specialist head coach. I was a sickly obsessed Rams fan throughout those years, and listened to countless hours of practice/mid-week/postgame interviews of the players from 2016-2020, and the veterans talked about McVay wanting to take more control of all sides of the ball, especially defensively. He delegated the day-to-day development to his really talented coordinators, but lost sight of being hands on of what he does best, leaving Goff to have to reset damn near every year with new OC leadership.

---

Could they have won that SB if they had just played CJ instead of sticking Gurley back in when he wasn't really producing?

mdstastrn37 said:

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McVay is cursed as a high strung alpha millennial that does not know how to detach from real life and social media pressures.

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I assume based on your description of your Rams obsession you watched their Hard Knocks. McVay isn't even the alpha or beta in his own house. He's behind his wife and a damn dog. He only won last year because they loaded talent to win a SB at home. Even then they needed a miracle drop by Tartt to allow it to happen. Stafford lost that game like he always does but Tartt bailed him out. McVay isn't at the top of his profession or even close. He's the poster boy for NFL nepotism. He'll never win another SB.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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**** the Chargers. May the Spanos family jet go down like ValuJet #592 in the Everglades this weekend following a blowout loss to Jacksonville. May John Spanos and AJ Spanos bleed out in the wreckage in front of their father, Dean Spanos, yet may Dean somehow miraculously survive the carnage with only two broken legs and a punctured lung, only to be killed outside the wreckage by two ravenous crocodiles before rescue teams can locate the crash site. May the FAA determine that the crash was sabotage, intentionally caused by an vengeful airplane mechanic who is an ex San Diego Chargers season ticketholder.

When you build your wealth off of years of mistreating the hardworking poor and powerless, things have a way of coming around and biting you in the ass.

---

Yes - things are really biting them in the ass right now. Are you serious? I'm sure the other NFL owners - including Kroenke with his walmart wealth - never hurt the little guy.

Chargers would still be in SD if the City had made any kind of competitive offer. The local voters didn't want it which is absolutely their prerogative. Don't blame the chargers for moving at all and since moving, they've integrated into the local community around Sofi far more than the Rams.

BearGoggles said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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**** the Chargers. May the Spanos family jet go down like ValuJet #592 in the Everglades this weekend following a blowout loss to Jacksonville. May John Spanos and AJ Spanos bleed out in the wreckage in front of their father, Dean Spanos, yet may Dean somehow miraculously survive the carnage with only two broken legs and a punctured lung, only to be killed outside the wreckage by two ravenous crocodiles before rescue teams can locate the crash site. May the FAA determine that the crash was sabotage, intentionally caused by an vengeful airplane mechanic who is an ex San Diego Chargers season ticketholder.

When you build your wealth off of years of mistreating the hardworking poor and powerless, things have a way of coming around and biting you in the ass.

---

Yes - things are really biting them in the ass right now. Are you serious? I'm sure the other NFL owners - including Kroenke with his walmart wealth - never hurt the little guy.

Chargers would still be in SD if the City had made any kind of competitive offer. The local voters didn't want it which is absolutely their prerogative. Don't blame the chargers for moving at all and since moving, they've integrated into the local community around Sofi far more than the Rams.

---

I've pretty much given up my efforts to try to educate people who hold opinions like yours about the situation with the Chargers in San Diego. So, I'm not really going to try. If you really care, there is a fascinating 5+ hour long podcast, which is from a relatively neutral perspective, that explores what truly was behind the Spanos family moving the team to Los Angeles. I was a season ticket holder for 21 years. I saw it all unfold with my own eyes. There is irrefutable evidence that Spanos had planned to move the team to Los Angeles as early as 2009. The fans were treated like crap for almost a decade, and then the citizens of San Diego (county, not city) were never given the opportunity to vote on a fair proposal that made sense and checked all the boxes. That is about 25% the fault of San Diego politicians. But, it was at least 75% the fault of the greedy Spanos family not making an honest effort to stay in San Diego (which, by the way, was required by NFL relocation rules). So **** them.

And you are the VERY FIRST person I've ever heard suggest that the Chargers have integrated well into the LA community. Most LA folks laugh when the topic of the Chargers is brought up.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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**** the Chargers. May the Spanos family jet go down like ValuJet #592 in the Everglades this weekend following a blowout loss to Jacksonville. May John Spanos and AJ Spanos bleed out in the wreckage in front of their father, Dean Spanos, yet may Dean somehow miraculously survive the carnage with only two broken legs and a punctured lung, only to be killed outside the wreckage by two ravenous crocodiles before rescue teams can locate the crash site. May the FAA determine that the crash was sabotage, intentionally caused by an vengeful airplane mechanic who is an ex San Diego Chargers season ticketholder.

When you build your wealth off of years of mistreating the hardworking poor and powerless, things have a way of coming around and biting you in the ass.

---

Yes - things are really biting them in the ass right now. Are you serious? I'm sure the other NFL owners - including Kroenke with his walmart wealth - never hurt the little guy.

Chargers would still be in SD if the City had made any kind of competitive offer. The local voters didn't want it which is absolutely their prerogative. Don't blame the chargers for moving at all and since moving, they've integrated into the local community around Sofi far more than the Rams.

---

I've pretty much given up my efforts to try to educate people who hold opinions like yours about the situation with the Chargers in San Diego. So, I'm not really going to try. If you really care, there is a fascinating 5+ hour long podcast, which is from a relatively neutral perspective, that explores what truly was behind the Spanos family moving the team to Los Angeles. I was a season ticket holder for 21 years. I saw it all unfold with my own eyes. There is irrefutable evidence that Spanos had planned to move the team to Los Angeles as early as 2009. The fans were treated like crap for almost a decade, and then the citizens of San Diego (county, not city) were never given the opportunity to vote on a fair proposal that made sense and checked all the boxes. That is about 25% the fault of San Diego politicians. But, it was at least 75% the fault of the greedy Spanos family not making an honest effort to stay in San Diego (which, by the way, was required by NFL relocation rules). So **** them.

And you are the VERY FIRST person I've ever heard suggest that the Chargers have integrated well into the LA community. Most LA folks laugh when the topic of the Chargers is brought up.

---

First sentence is saying "I can't succinctly explain myself" probably because you're still really angry. I get it - I was pissed when the Rams moved and hated Georgia for years, even before the move. She was really a terrible owner who caused the Rams to lose to the 49rs each year because she was too cheap in a non-salary cap era.

The chargers sponsored multiple stadium initiatives which were shot down. Much of that is detailed here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Chargers_stadium_proposals

I'm sure you'll say those proposals weren't "fair" and didn't check all the boxes as you posted above. What does that even mean? You'll never check "all" the boxes for all stakeholders. Never. The chargers and city/county reached multiple agreements (which lots of people thought were "fair" whatever that means) which were shot down by voters. The chargers made several proposals that were shot down prior to being voted on as detailed in the Wikipedia link. The final voter ballot measure failed EVEN AFTER it was explicitly known the chargers would move to LA/Sofi if it didn't pass. The voters didn't want it.

When the stadium process started in earnest (2003), Jack Murphy Stadium was already almost 40 years old and brutally bad. That is beyond dispute. The chargers tried for 12+ years to get a stadium. Seems to me that's more than good faith.

The chargers had a business decision to make after the final initiative failed - keep trying in SD after more than a decade of failing, while playing for 5+ more years in the Murph - or relocate to LA before the Raider did. I don't think anyone with those options would decide differently. And the Chargers got a much better deal in LA (basically a cheap lease). LV offered a better deal to the raiders than SD ever offered the Chargers.

And I happen to know people who were directly involved in some of the stadium initiatives. Those non-football people (SD residents) were hired by Spanos for the sole purposes of finding a stadium solution in SD - that was their full time job. They tried for years and failed despite wanting it badly.

In terms of community integration, the chargers are building their training facility in the area of Sofi (El Segundo) and have done a lot of local community outreach with charities, sponsors, etc. The rams, in contrast, are headquartered in OC/Thousand Oaks and are likely building their facility in Woodland Hills - all of those areas are no where near Inglewood.

I wasn't suggesting the Chargers had an equal sized fan base to the rams. Though I think its closer than you'd expect. The chargers attendance is around 3,000 per game less - not a huge difference. And let's face it, at Sofi a ton of the fans travel to support the opposing team. True for both the rams and chargers.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance

BearSD said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

---

BearGoggles said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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**** the Chargers. May the Spanos family jet go down like ValuJet #592 in the Everglades this weekend following a blowout loss to Jacksonville. May John Spanos and AJ Spanos bleed out in the wreckage in front of their father, Dean Spanos, yet may Dean somehow miraculously survive the carnage with only two broken legs and a punctured lung, only to be killed outside the wreckage by two ravenous crocodiles before rescue teams can locate the crash site. May the FAA determine that the crash was sabotage, intentionally caused by an vengeful airplane mechanic who is an ex San Diego Chargers season ticketholder.

When you build your wealth off of years of mistreating the hardworking poor and powerless, things have a way of coming around and biting you in the ass.

---

Yes - things are really biting them in the ass right now. Are you serious? I'm sure the other NFL owners - including Kroenke with his walmart wealth - never hurt the little guy.

Chargers would still be in SD if the City had made any kind of competitive offer. The local voters didn't want it which is absolutely their prerogative. Don't blame the chargers for moving at all and since moving, they've integrated into the local community around Sofi far more than the Rams.

---

I've pretty much given up my efforts to try to educate people who hold opinions like yours about the situation with the Chargers in San Diego. So, I'm not really going to try. If you really care, there is a fascinating 5+ hour long podcast, which is from a relatively neutral perspective, that explores what truly was behind the Spanos family moving the team to Los Angeles. I was a season ticket holder for 21 years. I saw it all unfold with my own eyes. There is irrefutable evidence that Spanos had planned to move the team to Los Angeles as early as 2009. The fans were treated like crap for almost a decade, and then the citizens of San Diego (county, not city) were never given the opportunity to vote on a fair proposal that made sense and checked all the boxes. That is about 25% the fault of San Diego politicians. But, it was at least 75% the fault of the greedy Spanos family not making an honest effort to stay in San Diego (which, by the way, was required by NFL relocation rules). So **** them.

And you are the VERY FIRST person I've ever heard suggest that the Chargers have integrated well into the LA community. Most LA folks laugh when the topic of the Chargers is brought up.

---

First sentence is saying "I can't succinctly explain myself" probably because you're still really angry. I get it - I was pissed when the Rams moved and hated Georgia for years, even before the move. She was really a terrible owner who caused the Rams to lose to the 49rs each year because she was too cheap in a non-salary cap era.

The chargers sponsored multiple stadium initiatives which were shot down. Much of that is detailed here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Chargers_stadium_proposals

I'm sure you'll say those proposals weren't "fair" and didn't check all the boxes as you posted above. What does that even mean? You'll never check "all" the boxes for all stakeholders. Never. The chargers and city/county reached multiple agreements (which lots of people thought were "fair" whatever that means) which were shot down by voters. The chargers made several proposals that were shot down prior to being voted on as detailed in the Wikipedia link. The final voter ballot measure failed EVEN AFTER it was explicitly known the chargers would move to LA/Sofi if it didn't pass. The voters didn't want it.

When the stadium process started in earnest (2003), Jack Murphy Stadium was already almost 40 years old and brutally bad. That is beyond dispute. The chargers tried for 12+ years to get a stadium. Seems to me that's more than good faith.

The chargers had a business decision to make after the final initiative failed - keep trying in SD after more than a decade of failing, while playing for 5+ more years in the Murph - or relocate to LA before the Raider did. I don't think anyone with those options would decide differently. And the Chargers got a much better deal in LA (basically a cheap lease). LV offered a better deal to the raiders than SD ever offered the Chargers.

And I happen to know people who were directly involved in some of the stadium initiatives. Those non-football people (SD residents) were hired by Spanos for the sole purposes of finding a stadium solution in SD - that was their full time job. They tried for years and failed despite wanting it badly.

---

Spanos made several attempts to get various cities and/or San Diego County to build him a brand new NFL-quality stadium at little or no cost to Spanos. He went from place to place with various schemes, each of which was designed to put the cost burden on the cities or county and avoid putting any financial burden on the cash-poor Chargers.

As a strategy designed to support the public relations pitch that he didn't move to LA until after he tried to get a free stadium in SD, it was successful. In fact, if Kroenke had pitched similar pie-in-the-sky stadium proposals in Missouri, at no cost to the Rams, that also had no chance of succeeding, he would have avoided the lawsuit that St. Louis won against him.

But claiming that Spanos going through the motions meant he was serious about wanting to stay in SD is like claiming that a person who regularly buys lottery tickets is seriously building a multi million dollar nest egg for his or her retirement.

---

Like it or not, the world we live in dictates that many cities/states finance stadiums at little cost to the team owner. There are two primary methods: (i) direct funding of some or all of the costs, often with a corresponding increase in hotel or other taxes; and/or (ii) granting the team owner development rights in connection with the stadium - residential/office/commercial around the stadium site. The NFL also has a fund to pay some of the costs.

Fine if SD didn't want to offer those things (same applies to Oakland/Alameda). But lots of places do, including LV/Nevada which kicked in $750M for the raiders stadium.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2016/12/16/san-diego-is-brilliantly-leveraging-chargers-owner-dean-spanos-in-stadium-talks/?sh=3e1357183583

Per the link below, under one proposal (I think the final one), Spanos pledged $350M of his own money. Maybe you think that's not enough, but its not "little or no cost" as you have claimed. And that's far from going through the motions.

And if you're read the article below, the author wonders why Spanos elected to pay the $550M relocation fee rather than upping his contribution to the SD Stadium. The answer is that: (i) the relocation fee is spread out, I think over 10 years); (ii) he got a $1 lease at SOFI, which is less annual cost than a new SD stadium would entail (he would have had a lease in SD with a much higher dollar amount); (iii) he had no exposure to cost overruns in LA; and (iv) the revenues in LA are projected to be considerably higher. Beyond that, Spanos apparently concluded (correctly) that he would never get public money in SD given that the voters consistently voted it down. I would also note that much of the stadium saga happened in the midst of the SD government pension scandal which poisoned public sentiment.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2017/01/12/san-diego-chargers-los-angeles-relocate/96493552/

Your argument boils down to Spanos should have paid a massive amount of his own money (over $1B) for the privilege of playing in SD. As a business decision, it was a no brainer to move to LA, particularly given that SD was literally offering him virtually nothing to stay and it was clear the voters were very unlikely to ever approve public financing in any significant form.

Final point. Kroenke lost the St. Louis lawsuit because he got railroaded by a local jury. Maybe that was predicable but so be it. And while he spent a ton of his own money to build Sofi, he also obtain valuable development rights (including 2000+ homes) that will likely generate a profit, even with the stadium's massive overruns. Had the stadium come in at or near budget, he would have made a killing.

https://la.urbanize.city/post/housing-and-retail-take-shape-next-inglewoods-sofi-stadium

From NFL Media: In the 2022 regular season:

185+ million people watched NFL games

16.7 million average viewers per NFL game.

88 NFL games have ranked among the top 100 shows on TV in the year 2022. pic.twitter.com/9SH1gdM1B2

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) January 11, 2023

BearGoggles said:

---

Like it or not, the world we live in dictates that many cities/states finance stadiums at little cost to the team owner. There are two primary methods: (i) direct funding of some or all of the costs, often with a corresponding increase in hotel or other taxes; and/or (ii) granting the team owner development rights in connection with the stadium - residential/office/commercial around the stadium site. The NFL also has a fund to pay some of the costs.

Fine if SD didn't want to offer those things (same applies to Oakland/Alameda). But lots of places do, including LV/Nevada which kicked in $750M for the raiders stadium.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2016/12/16/san-diego-is-brilliantly-leveraging-chargers-owner-dean-spanos-in-stadium-talks/?sh=3e1357183583

Per the link below, under one proposal (I think the final one), Spanos pledged $350M of his own money. Maybe you think that's not enough, but its not "little or no cost" as you have claimed. And that's far from going through the motions.

And if you're read the article below, the author wonders why Spanos elected to pay the $550M relocation fee rather than upping his contribution to the SD Stadium. The answer is that: (i) the relocation fee is spread out, I think over 10 years); (ii) he got a $1 lease at SOFI, which is less annual cost than a new SD stadium would entail (he would have had a lease in SD with a much higher dollar amount); (iii) he had no exposure to cost overruns in LA; and (iv) the revenues in LA are projected to be considerably higher. Beyond that, Spanos apparently concluded (correctly) that he would never get public money in SD given that the voters consistently voted it down. I would also note that much of the stadium saga happened in the midst of the SD government pension scandal which poisoned public sentiment.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2017/01/12/san-diego-chargers-los-angeles-relocate/96493552/

Your argument boils down to Spanos should have paid a massive amount of his own money (over $1B) for the privilege of playing in SD. As a business decision, it was a no brainer to move to LA, particularly given that SD was literally offering him virtually nothing to stay and it was clear the voters were very unlikely to ever approve public financing in any significant form.

---

No, my point is that Spanos implemented a cynical business strategy intended to end with the Chargers playing in LA. It took many years longer than he expected because it took longer for someone with money to burn, i.e. Kroenke, to arrive and build the stadium. Spanos apparently despises Kroenke, but it was the only way the Chargers would ever get to LA.

That business strategy was financially lucrative because the Chargers will be much more valuable when the Spanoses sell the team. The Chargers and the other second-banana pro franchises in LA are worth more than being the one team in SD. The Clippers are worth more than they could have been if they had stayed in SD. The sad-sack Angels franchise (which, by the way, plays in an aged ballpark that is well past its prime) is worth several hundred million more than the Padres franchise. Location, location, location.

By the way: Public money paid $750 million of the $1.9 billion Allegiant Stadium cost. The Raiders invested or borrowed more than 60% of the stadium cost.

The final two years of Jared Goff's current contract are suddenly looking very good for the Lions. So good that he may want a new deal. https://t.co/Rle2nCnHAL

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) January 12, 2023

BearSD said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Like it or not, the world we live in dictates that many cities/states finance stadiums at little cost to the team owner. There are two primary methods: (i) direct funding of some or all of the costs, often with a corresponding increase in hotel or other taxes; and/or (ii) granting the team owner development rights in connection with the stadium - residential/office/commercial around the stadium site. The NFL also has a fund to pay some of the costs.

Fine if SD didn't want to offer those things (same applies to Oakland/Alameda). But lots of places do, including LV/Nevada which kicked in $750M for the raiders stadium.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2016/12/16/san-diego-is-brilliantly-leveraging-chargers-owner-dean-spanos-in-stadium-talks/?sh=3e1357183583

Per the link below, under one proposal (I think the final one), Spanos pledged $350M of his own money. Maybe you think that's not enough, but its not "little or no cost" as you have claimed. And that's far from going through the motions.

And if you're read the article below, the author wonders why Spanos elected to pay the $550M relocation fee rather than upping his contribution to the SD Stadium. The answer is that: (i) the relocation fee is spread out, I think over 10 years); (ii) he got a $1 lease at SOFI, which is less annual cost than a new SD stadium would entail (he would have had a lease in SD with a much higher dollar amount); (iii) he had no exposure to cost overruns in LA; and (iv) the revenues in LA are projected to be considerably higher. Beyond that, Spanos apparently concluded (correctly) that he would never get public money in SD given that the voters consistently voted it down. I would also note that much of the stadium saga happened in the midst of the SD government pension scandal which poisoned public sentiment.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2017/01/12/san-diego-chargers-los-angeles-relocate/96493552/

Your argument boils down to Spanos should have paid a massive amount of his own money (over $1B) for the privilege of playing in SD. As a business decision, it was a no brainer to move to LA, particularly given that SD was literally offering him virtually nothing to stay and it was clear the voters were very unlikely to ever approve public financing in any significant form.

---

No, my point is that Spanos implemented a cynical business strategy intended to end with the Chargers playing in LA. It took many years longer than he expected because it took longer for someone with money to burn, i.e. Kroenke, to arrive and build the stadium. Spanos apparently despises Kroenke, but it was the only way the Chargers would ever get to LA.

That business strategy was financially lucrative because the Chargers will be much more valuable when the Spanoses sell the team. The Chargers and the other second-banana pro franchises in LA are worth more than being the one team in SD. The Clippers are worth more than they could have been if they had stayed in SD. The sad-sack Angels franchise (which, by the way, plays in an aged ballpark that is well past its prime) is worth several hundred million more than the Padres franchise. Location, location, location.

By the way: Public money paid $750 million of the $1.9 billion Allegiant Stadium cost. The Raiders invested or borrowed more than 60% of the stadium cost.

---

Yes - a "cynical" business strategy where they spent huge time and dollars fighting to get voter approval of multiple proposals the Chargers (and county/city) were willing to proceed with, all of which were voted down. Do you realized what a conspiracy theory that is?

And your assessment of what the raiders "paid" for their stadium is a bit off. Among other things, you're ignoring that they signed a 30 year lease for zero rent and they get to collect all stadium revenues - including from non-raider events.

Yes - teams that generate more revenue/profits are worth more. Smaller markets like SD need to kick in if they want teams - or else they leave like the Chargers and Clippers did. SD could have kept the Chargers - they just didn't want to pay to do so. That's not the Chargers fault.

In terms of the Angels (who incidentally have a much better historical team record, and one more world series victory, than the Padres) have been desperately trying to get a new stadium. They had a deal which involved granting development rights - the Kroenke deal - but it was killed by litigation and a political scandal. Eventually it will get done or . . . they will leave. Anaheim did a similar deal with the Ducks who are developing a massive project around their arena.

And let me tell you, the current Anaheim Stadium is definitely old, but has been renovated multiple times and is in much better shape than the Murph was (at least since 1990).

okaydo said:

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The final two years of Jared Goff's current contract are suddenly looking very good for the Lions. So good that he may want a new deal. https://t.co/Rle2nCnHAL

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) January 12, 2023

---

Quote:

---

Goff has two years left on his contract. His performance this year actually makes the deal very friendly to the team.

Goff is due to make $25.65 million in 2023. For 2024, the final year of this deal, Goff will make $26.65 million.

At a time when the top of the market has shot north of $50 million, that's a bargain for the Lions.

---

Crazy to think that $25M/yr is now a low end for an NFL QB...

The fastest way for Goff to not be the Lions quarterback moving forward is this line of thinking. https://t.co/8EODDuB9qp

— Charles Robinson (@CharlesRobinson) January 12, 2023

"Perhaps it is partially due to the fact that it was built in LA (a desert) during an epic drought."

The stadium actually opened a year behind schedule because heavy rains during construction flooded the construction site.

It's interesting comparing Goff vs. Stafford.

back to Chargers talk to drop this:

got to love a salty social media team

this is well donepic.twitter.com/jWcDWpcyGC

— Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) January 12, 2023

okaydo said:

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The final two years of Jared Goff's current contract are suddenly looking very good for the Lions. So good that he may want a new deal.

---

IMO, that article is mostly just Florio trying to stir up shtt, which is what he normally does.

Look at the salaries of the highest paid players, this is what they are scheduled to make in 2023: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/

Goff is arguably slightly underpaid, but not excessively underpaid. He will make $26.5MM in 2023.

AR's contract is a special case because of his soap opera history with the Packers.

Mahomes is in another stratosphere and not a measuring stick for Goff.

The Watson, Murray, and Wilson contracts are widely regarded as bad overpays.

Prescott and Cousins at about $30 MM each are fair comps for Goff.

Josh Allen is substantially underpaid at $28 MM, and also performing at a higher level.

IMO, $28 to 30 MM would be market value for Goff if there was another team that wanted him as a starter, and we don't know whether or not there is any such team other than the Lions.

A reasonable deal, if they renegotiate, might be just adding some guaranteed money into the contract, maybe guaranteeing the next two seasons at the current rate ($25.6 MM in 2023, $26.6 MM in 2024) and adding an extra year or two that are not guaranteed but could be bought out by the Lions after the 2024 season for a payment of $9 MM. That would give Goff, effectively, about $30 MM in 2023 and $31 MM in 2024, which seems fair to Goff.