Cal Strong no follow this and needs rothforever's expertise: Did they lose all those 5-star O-linemen?rothforever said:
Taylor doesn't have the talent due to all the attrition from Shaw's tenure. That was totally coaching,
Fire Wilcox now
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Last: 2 days ago by 01Bear
At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Tedy Bruschi on @GetUpESPN: "To start the game with 2 penalties [on offense]. To finish the game with 3 penalties. That is a sign that Bill [Belichick] isn't reaching these guys."
— Mike Reiss (@MikeReiss) October 16, 2023
I assume Bruschi would make the same assumption about our team. From what I recall, we started the game with a bad decision to run back the kickoff, followed by 2 penalties on the opening drive.
wifeisafurd said:I would be surprised that Madsen is treating this like an actual game, but giving everyone a lot of playing time to see what he has. Let's wait until we have actual games.Unit2Sucks said:You expect him to break out a time machine? The Rose Bowl is no more.Cal Strong! said:"Coach Wilcox, you are in year seven. Everyone wants to see you succeed. But you haven't thus far. Are you the right person to get us to a Rose Bowl?"KoreAmBear said:
Has anyone in our press corps asked Sirmon or Wilcox why we don't bring more pressure since we are 0 for the conference season in sacks?
Has our press corps asked Sirmon and Wilcox why we didn't stack the box when we knew all Utah was going to do was run?
Has our press corps asked Sirmon why we are employing a bend but don't break defense when it is allowing an alarming number of points?
If so, I would like to hear the explanation(s). But usually the questions are like "we know it's hard to win at Utah with a RS freshman QB, did you see progress?"How long before we have Fire Madsen threads in MBB?Econ141 said:sycasey said:Seriously. He seems like a good hire, but we don't know yet.Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.Cal MBB lost to Boise State by 15 points in a scrimmage today a source told me
— Cal Sports (@CAL_SPORTS_) October 15, 2023
Actually not the worst idea.PtownBear1 said:
Since our football season is routinely over by the end of October for all practical purposes, we should just see if Madsen can do double duty as the football HC.
"Just win, baby."
This has been passed around enough that it's become its own fact.calumnus said:PaulCali said:If I had the new chancellor's ear (God forbid), because of the financial constraints, I would advise hiring a dynamite new AD FIRST, letting the new AD initially focus on reorganizing and reenergizing the athletic department and shepherding us into the ACC. I would advise riding with Wilcox as HC for a while longer until his buyout becomes more manageable. The buyout for Knowlton would be much less and and he could be replaced immediately. I'm assuming, of course, that we get a new chancellor who really cares about Cal athletics.bluehenbear said:
We need an AD that knows what's needed for successful football and how to get it. That's exactly what UW did… it was more than just DeBoer.
Yes, this. The caveat being if Rivera becomes available he might be willing to come in early and have his initial salary held off while we pay off Wilcox.
Has any of this actually been said by Rivera, even through back channels?
I think he'd be awesome and imagine the recruiting boost.
"Just win, baby."
Bowlesman80 said:This has been passed around enough that it's become its own fact.calumnus said:PaulCali said:If I had the new chancellor's ear (God forbid), because of the financial constraints, I would advise hiring a dynamite new AD FIRST, letting the new AD initially focus on reorganizing and reenergizing the athletic department and shepherding us into the ACC. I would advise riding with Wilcox as HC for a while longer until his buyout becomes more manageable. The buyout for Knowlton would be much less and and he could be replaced immediately. I'm assuming, of course, that we get a new chancellor who really cares about Cal athletics.bluehenbear said:
We need an AD that knows what's needed for successful football and how to get it. That's exactly what UW did… it was more than just DeBoer.
Yes, this. The caveat being if Rivera becomes available he might be willing to come in early and have his initial salary held off while we pay off Wilcox.
Has any of this actually been said by Rivera, even through back channels?
I think he'd be awesome and imagine the recruiting boost.
Only in generalities. He has a job right now so no way he is planning on or talking about losing it. Rivera has said in the past he wants to coach at Cal before he is done. He and his wife are major contributors of their own money to Cal and to Cal's NIL program. If he got fired by the Commanders he would get a hefty payout of his contract and could afford to forego payments for a few years while we pay off Wilcox. But no, you are not going to see confirmation. Ron is the HC of the Commanders and is trying to win so the idea he <might> come is only speculation based on caveats (like his getting fired).
Love how folks oaths board are so free with other people's $$$. Of course Rivera would be willing to work free, living off his Commanders severance package!Bowlesman80 said:This has been passed around enough that it's become its own fact.calumnus said:PaulCali said:If I had the new chancellor's ear (God forbid), because of the financial constraints, I would advise hiring a dynamite new AD FIRST, letting the new AD initially focus on reorganizing and reenergizing the athletic department and shepherding us into the ACC. I would advise riding with Wilcox as HC for a while longer until his buyout becomes more manageable. The buyout for Knowlton would be much less and and he could be replaced immediately. I'm assuming, of course, that we get a new chancellor who really cares about Cal athletics.bluehenbear said:
We need an AD that knows what's needed for successful football and how to get it. That's exactly what UW did… it was more than just DeBoer.
Yes, this. The caveat being if Rivera becomes available he might be willing to come in early and have his initial salary held off while we pay off Wilcox.
Has any of this actually been said by Rivera, even through back channels?
I think he'd be awesome and imagine the recruiting boost.
59bear said:Love how folks oaths board are so free with other people's $$$. Of course Rivera would be willing to work free, living off his Commanders severance package!Bowlesman80 said:This has been passed around enough that it's become its own fact.calumnus said:PaulCali said:If I had the new chancellor's ear (God forbid), because of the financial constraints, I would advise hiring a dynamite new AD FIRST, letting the new AD initially focus on reorganizing and reenergizing the athletic department and shepherding us into the ACC. I would advise riding with Wilcox as HC for a while longer until his buyout becomes more manageable. The buyout for Knowlton would be much less and and he could be replaced immediately. I'm assuming, of course, that we get a new chancellor who really cares about Cal athletics.bluehenbear said:
We need an AD that knows what's needed for successful football and how to get it. That's exactly what UW did… it was more than just DeBoer.
Yes, this. The caveat being if Rivera becomes available he might be willing to come in early and have his initial salary held off while we pay off Wilcox.
Has any of this actually been said by Rivera, even through back channels?
I think he'd be awesome and imagine the recruiting boost.
Again, consider the context. Wilcox has a $20 million buyout. Our athletics department has a huge deficit which is only going to get worse. We cannot afford to fire Wilcox and hire a new coach.
All that has been suggested is <IF> Rivera is fired he <MIGHT> be willing to structure his deal in a way to make it work. Assign a less than 1% probability to those two things happening if you want, but whatever probability you assign, it is higher than for any other good candidate. However slim, it is our only hope for replacing Wilcox after this season. Otherwise he is coming back so we have to hope he starts to figure out how to be a good head coach.
"deficit deficit"
Double secret deficit?
Double secret deficit?
"Just win, baby."
make a couple FG v Auburn and we are, wow, gaunlet schedule but hanging in for a bowl game...
Wilcox turned down ORE twice in the off seson- what would ther/our recorod be if coaches were swapped Lanning for Wilcox?l
Wilcox turned down ORE twice in the off seson- what would ther/our recorod be if coaches were swapped Lanning for Wilcox?l
Probably not super important but: Rivera has one year left on his Washington deal, which, of course isn't chopped liver. But, the "living off" component also factors in that he has earned enough money over his coaching career to be able to have some flexibility...but I think working for "free" is a stretch, especially for Ron's agent! (ha)59bear said:Love how folks oaths board are so free with other people's $$$. Of course Rivera would be willing to work free, living off his Commanders severance package!Bowlesman80 said:This has been passed around enough that it's become its own fact.calumnus said:PaulCali said:If I had the new chancellor's ear (God forbid), because of the financial constraints, I would advise hiring a dynamite new AD FIRST, letting the new AD initially focus on reorganizing and reenergizing the athletic department and shepherding us into the ACC. I would advise riding with Wilcox as HC for a while longer until his buyout becomes more manageable. The buyout for Knowlton would be much less and and he could be replaced immediately. I'm assuming, of course, that we get a new chancellor who really cares about Cal athletics.bluehenbear said:
We need an AD that knows what's needed for successful football and how to get it. That's exactly what UW did… it was more than just DeBoer.
Yes, this. The caveat being if Rivera becomes available he might be willing to come in early and have his initial salary held off while we pay off Wilcox.
Has any of this actually been said by Rivera, even through back channels?
I think he'd be awesome and imagine the recruiting boost.
Being closer to the Tahoe house is a selling point...would be for anyone right? Health is the X factor of course, but, knock on wood, he is doing great.
Ron and Stephanie are great people...I too have hoped for many years that Ron would get to some day be the HC at Cal-for those of us who have known him well over the years, his ability to connect on the recruiting trail would be incredible! I've seen him look people in the eye and communicate...he is honest, straightforward, and a sincere passion about most anything, but definitely Cal.
Without any inside info at all(because I don't keep up with them like I used to), all I will say is that I am more conservative about the "Rivera speculation," and that, for right now, if he has the time to do it, if that's how it falls out with the Commanders, that I hope he heads up the search group for a new coach. Beyond that, well, who knows, but he has put in some hard work in the NFL....he has earned the opportunity to not coach.
Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
+1,000,000
Results are not guaranteed.
You can only control your own actions and Madsen is simply doing everything right. Everything. Even fully embracing being a Cal guy. He has brought in really good players and he is a really good coach so I expect really good results.
Sure, we shouldn't let expectations get ahead of themselves. However, considering we were the lowest scoring team in the entire country last year with the worst record in the country and in our history, all coached by a scowling, yelling control freak, we should all be over the moon at this point. No matter what our record turns out to be, Cal basketball is fun again.
I kinda like this
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
I hope fans are so far over their skis they are doing front flips. To me, zero downside: maybe more NIL dollars flowing, maybe a few people planning game(s) attendance that would not have gone last year for a million dollars. Fan momentum? Sign me up...BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
"Failure," "lack of success," "one hit wonder" et. al.: been a Cal fan long enough to know those happen no matter how "sensible" or "restrained" the posts might be on a Cal board.
Change is past due. It's time
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
Here's your downside. Most fans aren't so far over their skis and a lot of them are tired of either being gaslit or of a complete lack of progress because a percentage of fans move from one overly optimistic position to another without engaging in reality. If there is not a dose of reality in there, at best you get a sugar rush on NIL and attendance and when reality hits, you get the corresponding crash. And for the most part, those who declare the hire a homerun without playing a game are going to games and donating anyway because that is where they are always at.mbBear said:I hope fans are so far over their skis they are doing front flips. To me, zero downside: maybe more NIL dollars flowing, maybe a few people planning game(s) attendance that would not have gone last year for a million dollars. Fan momentum? Sign me up...BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
"Failure," "lack of success," "one hit wonder" et. al.: been a Cal fan long enough to know those happen no matter how "sensible" or "restrained" the posts might be on a Cal board.
Again, no one is talking about normal optimism which is all awesome and which I think is warranted. I'm talking about things crowning him a success and like wanting to replicate Madsen when we don't know yet whether he is what we want to replicate. A lot of people felt the same way about Wilcox several years ago. I feel like you are taking this out of context. The context was that a poster said do we really want Knowlton controlling the process of hiring a new football coach and a poster responded with:
Quote:
Whatever the process was, we did get an awesome hire with Mark Madsen so we could pull off something similar for football (doubtful I know)
I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to put a win in Knowlton's column yet. Which points out another downside. Are we giving credit to Knowlton now? Doesn't that make him less firable? Doesn't that make it more acceptable for him to control hiring a football coach. I certainly don't think it should.
It is similar to people wanting to find our own Deion after two games when it is far from clear that Deion will even get the results we want to emulate.
Certainly possible. I guess I jsut think that his hire is a success because at this point you can only judge him on the perception of the program, which seems by all account strending upward in a big way.BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
It could certainly change if he can't coach, but with any hire you can only judge them on how they influence the program positively or negatively.
OOps.
"Just win, baby."
RE: Wilcox
Welp, here's two cents worth.
I do think that Wilcox is proving out the Peter Principle and is, as others have said, in over his head.
However, sadly enough, I think a Coach of The Year (irony intended), could not make a huge difference (we might go back to just above .500) given the obstacles and ho-hum attitude (short shrift) given by the academic leadership, many or most of whom probably hated PE and would be ecstatic if football were just...to...fade...away. So, then, we're exclusively a factory for nerds, who come out tightly bubble-wrapped and clueless regarding the real world. IMHO, people are not born strong, but make themselves strong through real life experiences, not video games on mom's couch. Football can be a stylized reminder of the strength required for the real world. A real world that seems to be more and more of an abstraction that protected souls avoid.
Welp, here's two cents worth.
I do think that Wilcox is proving out the Peter Principle and is, as others have said, in over his head.
However, sadly enough, I think a Coach of The Year (irony intended), could not make a huge difference (we might go back to just above .500) given the obstacles and ho-hum attitude (short shrift) given by the academic leadership, many or most of whom probably hated PE and would be ecstatic if football were just...to...fade...away. So, then, we're exclusively a factory for nerds, who come out tightly bubble-wrapped and clueless regarding the real world. IMHO, people are not born strong, but make themselves strong through real life experiences, not video games on mom's couch. Football can be a stylized reminder of the strength required for the real world. A real world that seems to be more and more of an abstraction that protected souls avoid.
"Just win, baby."
"IMHO, people are not born strong, but make themselves strong through real life experiences, not video games on mom's couch. Football can be a stylized reminder of the strength required for the real world. A real world that seems to be more and more of an abstraction that fragile minds avoid."
Hilarious.
Hilarious.
Grigsby said:Certainly possible. I guess I jsut think that his hire is a success because at this point you can only judge him on the perception of the program, which seems by all account strending upward in a big way.BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
It could certainly change if he can't coach, but with any hire you can only judge them on how they influence the program positively or negatively.
I have been a huge critic of Knowlton since he was hired. I will not detail everything he has done wrong again, but as I've been saying all along, we will be lucky if we even have a program when he is done and I mean that.
Given that we had Knowlton in charge, we are very lucky we ended up with a hire as good as Madsen, and so for Madsen has far exceeded my expectations. Similarly, we are very lucky we are going to be in the ACC and not the MWC. Sure, if we had competent leadership the last 10 years we might be in the B1G, but I'm pretty happy, I don't know how much credit to give Knowlton for Madsen or the ACC, and yes, both could turn out to be disasters, or not enough to save us from ourselves, but right now, they are wins.
I view Knowlton and Madsen the way I view Trump and Operation Warp Speed: horrific leaders who made a rare good decision. I have no problem acknowledging when someone I loath does something right. However, I still believe we will be lucky if our program and democracy still exist when they are finished and I mean that.
I apologize in advance because I know we have pro-Trump antivaxers on our board, I am not trying to rekindle those debates, I am just giving my best analogy for me personally. They might hate Obama but acknowledge that the loans to the US auto industry saved that industry and turned out well or that killing Osama Bin Laden was a win. Or not, maybe they would debate those too, my main point is we don't have to be overly skeptical about Madsen just because Knowlton was in charge of his hiring. Many who hated Williams loved the Wilcox hire. We can hate Knowlton and want him gone and still be happy with how the Madsen hire is going so far. Again, I apologize for using political analogies, I hope people understand the context in which I did.
And yes, Madsen could still turn out to be a flop. Every hire is a gamble made based on the information available. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. However, there are good bets and bad bets. Mark Fox was a horrible bet, and turned out even worse than I feared, but Mark Madsen has a good track record and more important, good fundamentals. A good business plan and the smarts and energy to execute it. I liked other candidates better, but thought he was a good bet and so far he is far exceeeding my expectations.
Is it more costly to buy out Wilcox or buy out Knowlton? Or are we too financially strapped to do either?
It seems to me we could be at least in somewhat stronger state if we just get rid of one of these two.
It seems to me we could be at least in somewhat stronger state if we just get rid of one of these two.
Beavers get a 4* without a conference. Where are our leaders?!?
Blessed and excited!! To announce my commitment to Oregon State University!! I would like to thank my family, friends, and coach’s who have helped me get to this point! @BrandonHuffman @jon_eagle @Coach_Smith @CoachWozniakTE @flyguyhuey5 @JakeCookus @MikeDoc40 @robertcolemoore pic.twitter.com/Ra1T6LUhTw
— Baron Naone (@BaronNaone) October 20, 2023
Econ141 said:
Is it more costly to buy out Wilcox or buy out Knowlton? Or are we too financially strapped to do either?
It seems to me we could be at least in somewhat stronger state if we just get rid of one of these two.
In January of 2022, Knowlton extended Wilcox through 2027 at $5 million per year. After this season it would cost $20 million to fire him.
Knowlton receives $1.3 million per year and 2 years ago Christ gave him an 8 year extension through 2029. It would cost $7.8 million to fire him. Unless we can fire him for cause in the McKeever abuse scandal for violations of university, state and Federal rules and laws.
calumnus said:Econ141 said:
Is it more costly to buy out Wilcox or buy out Knowlton? Or are we too financially strapped to do either?
It seems to me we could be at least in somewhat stronger state if we just get rid of one of these two.
In January of 2022, Knowlton extended Wilcox through 2027 at $5 million per year. After this season it would cost $20 million to fire him.
Knowlton receives $1.3 million per year and 2 years ago Christ gave him an 8 year extension through 2029. It would cost $7.8 million to fire him. Unless we can fire him for cause in the McKeever abuse scandal for violations of university, state and Federal rules and laws.
I would hope our big donors can find 7.8 if they can't afford to buyout Wilcox. With a new pro athletics AD, we might be able to give Wilcox some more support to at least become respectable. Keeping them both on is basically raising the white flag on Cal Athletics.
Such clueless comments!calumnus said:59bear said:Love how folks oaths board are so free with other people's $$$. Of course Rivera would be willing to work free, living off his Commanders severance package!Bowlesman80 said:This has been passed around enough that it's become its own fact.calumnus said:PaulCali said:If I had the new chancellor's ear (God forbid), because of the financial constraints, I would advise hiring a dynamite new AD FIRST, letting the new AD initially focus on reorganizing and reenergizing the athletic department and shepherding us into the ACC. I would advise riding with Wilcox as HC for a while longer until his buyout becomes more manageable. The buyout for Knowlton would be much less and and he could be replaced immediately. I'm assuming, of course, that we get a new chancellor who really cares about Cal athletics.bluehenbear said:
We need an AD that knows what's needed for successful football and how to get it. That's exactly what UW did… it was more than just DeBoer.
Yes, this. The caveat being if Rivera becomes available he might be willing to come in early and have his initial salary held off while we pay off Wilcox.
Has any of this actually been said by Rivera, even through back channels?
I think he'd be awesome and imagine the recruiting boost.
Again, consider the context. Wilcox has a $20 million buyout. Our athletics department has a huge deficit which is only going to get worse. We cannot afford to fire Wilcox and hire a new coach.
All that has been suggested is <IF> Rivera is fired he <MIGHT> be willing to structure his deal in a way to make it work. Assign a less than 1% probability to those two things happening if you want, but whatever probability you assign, it is higher than for any other good candidate. However slim, it is our only hope for replacing Wilcox after this season. Otherwise he is coming back so we have to hope he starts to figure out how to be a good head coach.
Catch ya' in the Portal, Baron.Econ141 said:
Beavers get a 4* without a conference. Where are our leaders?!?Blessed and excited!! To announce my commitment to Oregon State University!! I would like to thank my family, friends, and coach’s who have helped me get to this point! @BrandonHuffman @jon_eagle @Coach_Smith @CoachWozniakTE @flyguyhuey5 @JakeCookus @MikeDoc40 @robertcolemoore pic.twitter.com/Ra1T6LUhTw
— Baron Naone (@BaronNaone) October 20, 2023
"Just win, baby."
Give JK the Win, but he has so many F's, he's still needs to be canned for cause.BearlyCareAnymore said:Here's your downside. Most fans aren't so far over their skis and a lot of them are tired of either being gaslit or of a complete lack of progress because a percentage of fans move from one overly optimistic position to another without engaging in reality. If there is not a dose of reality in there, at best you get a sugar rush on NIL and attendance and when reality hits, you get the corresponding crash. And for the most part, those who declare the hire a homerun without playing a game are going to games and donating anyway because that is where they are always at.mbBear said:I hope fans are so far over their skis they are doing front flips. To me, zero downside: maybe more NIL dollars flowing, maybe a few people planning game(s) attendance that would not have gone last year for a million dollars. Fan momentum? Sign me up...BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
"Failure," "lack of success," "one hit wonder" et. al.: been a Cal fan long enough to know those happen no matter how "sensible" or "restrained" the posts might be on a Cal board.
Again, no one is talking about normal optimism which is all awesome and which I think is warranted. I'm talking about things crowning him a success and like wanting to replicate Madsen when we don't know yet whether he is what we want to replicate. A lot of people felt the same way about Wilcox several years ago. I feel like you are taking this out of context. The context was that a poster said do we really want Knowlton controlling the process of hiring a new football coach and a poster responded with:Quote:
Whatever the process was, we did get an awesome hire with Mark Madsen so we could pull off something similar for football (doubtful I know)
I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to put a win in Knowlton's column yet. Which points out another downside. Are we giving credit to Knowlton now? Doesn't that make him less firable? Doesn't that make it more acceptable for him to control hiring a football coach. I certainly don't think it should.
It is similar to people wanting to find our own Deion after two games when it is far from clear that Deion will even get the results we want to emulate.
It's the worst people you know meme coming to life. I despise Jim Knowlton. I'd love to know if Knowlton actually had executive decision powers to make the hire because his decision to extend Wilcox and the reticence to fire Mark Fox are insanely incompetent.calumnus said:Grigsby said:Certainly possible. I guess I jsut think that his hire is a success because at this point you can only judge him on the perception of the program, which seems by all account strending upward in a big way.BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
It could certainly change if he can't coach, but with any hire you can only judge them on how they influence the program positively or negatively.
I have been a huge critic of Knowlton since he was hired. I will not detail everything he has done wrong again, but as I've been saying all along, we will be lucky if we even have a program when he is done and I mean that.
Given that we had Knowlton in charge, we are very lucky we ended up with a hire as good as Madsen, and so for Madsen has far exceeded my expectations. Similarly, we are very lucky we are going to be in the ACC and not the MWC. Sure, if we had competent leadership the last 10 years we might be in the B1G, but I'm pretty happy, I don't know how much credit to give Knowlton for Madsen or the ACC, and yes, both could turn out to be disasters, or not enough to save us from ourselves, but right now, they are wins.
I view Knowlton and Madsen the way I view Trump and Operation Warp Speed: horrific leaders who made a rare good decision. I have no problem acknowledging when someone I loath does something right. However, I still believe we will be lucky if our program and democracy still exist when they are finished and I mean that.
I apologize in advance because I know we have pro-Trump antivaxers on our board, I am not trying to rekindle those debates, I am just giving my best analogy for me personally. They might hate Obama but acknowledge that the loans to the US auto industry saved that industry and turned out well or that killing Osama Bin Laden was a win. Or not, maybe they would debate those too, my main point is we don't have to be overly skeptical about Madsen just because Knowlton was in charge of his hiring. Many who hated Williams loved the Wilcox hire. We can hate Knowlton and want him gone and still be happy with how the Madsen hire is going so far. Again, I apologize for using political analogies, I hope people understand the context in which I did.
And yes, Madsen could still turn out to be a flop. Every hire is a gamble made based on the information available. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. However, there are good bets and bad bets. Mark Fox was a horrible bet, and turned out even worse than I feared, but Mark Madsen has a good track record and more important, good fundamentals. A good business plan and the smarts and energy to execute it. I liked other candidates better, but thought he was a good bet and so far he is far exceeeding my expectations.
Grigsby said:It's the worst people you know meme coming to life. I despise Jim Knowlton. I'd love to know if Knowlton actually had executive decision powers to make the hire because his decision to extend Wilcox and the reticence to fire Mark Fox are insanely incompetent.calumnus said:Grigsby said:Certainly possible. I guess I jsut think that his hire is a success because at this point you can only judge him on the perception of the program, which seems by all account strending upward in a big way.BearlyCareAnymore said:I think you misunderstand what people are saying. I think almost everyone is optimistic about the hire. There is a difference between being optimistic and declaring the hire a success. He has done everything right so far, but there are a whole lot of things that he has to do that we can only guess at how well he will do.Grigsby said:HKBear97! said:Grigsby said:At least he brings hope and I don't see Wilcox invovled with the #1 recruit in 2025 and #2 recruit in 2026 classes. (AJ Dybansta and Brandon McCoy if you are wondering at home)Unit2Sucks said:
I love that people are already assuming that Madsen, who has never coached a game at Cal, is a runaway success at MBB.
If you take a look at the kids who are listing Cal in basketball, you can see that the Madsen hire got premier athletes to think about Cal again. Of course the jury is out on coaching, but the biggst issue is always recruiting. Of course Cal isn't going to get most of these guys, but I don't think Madsen is just offering everyone. You also should look at where Cal is recruiting. A lot of these spots Cal has not had a foothold previously.
2025 (Cal Offer top 100)
1. AJ Dybansta 6-9 SF Napa Prep CA
7. Isiah Harwell 6-6 SG Wasatch Academy UT
12. Brayden Burries 6-5 SG Eleanor Roosevelt San Bernadino CA
27. Tyler Jackson 6-2 PG Overtime Elite Atlanta GA
34. King Grace 6-4 SG Waxahachie, TX
37. Tounde Yessoufou 6-5 PF St. Joseph Santa Maria CA
38. Jovani Ruff 6-5 SG Long Beach Poly CA
46. Jordan Scott 6-7 SF South Lakes Reston VA
48. Alec Blair 6-6 SF De La Salle CA
58. Hudson Greer 6-6 SF Lake Travis Austin TX
60. Chris Cenac 6-10 C Isidore Newman New Orleans, LA
62. Mazi Mosley 6-4 SG St. Francis La Canada, CA
64. Kayden Edwards 6-2 SG Duncanville TX
82. Patton Pinkins 6-5 SG Wolfforth TX
84. Bryce Heard 6-5 CG Chicago IL
87. Jasir Rencher 6-5 SF San Francisco CA
90. Demarco Johnson 6-2 PG Castaic CA
95. Aleks Alston 6-9 PFChicago IL
98. A'Mare Bynum 6-8 C Omaha NE
2026 (Cal Offer top 50)
2. Brandon McCoy 6-4 PG St John Bosco CA
4. Alijah Arenas 6-4 SG Chartsworth CA
8. Elijah Williams 6-6 SF Bloomfield Hills MI
26. Dean Rueckert 6-6 SF Provo UT
48. Ben Ahmed 6-10 Putnam CT
Good info. I'm probably not alone in thinking Madsen is not a runaway success, but he's definitely made a great first impression. Hired a strong staff, improved the roster, made a strong outreach to fans and boosters and generally has the fan base looking forward to the new season. Whether that translates into to success on the court remains to be seen, but at least there's some excitement.
I think Madsen is as good as most programs in the country can get absent paying obscene dollars for an established superstar coach. He's won the WAC 2 out of the last 3 years at Utah Valley. He's been a NBA D-league coach and a NBA assistant coach.
He seems to be highly regarded by his peers and he pulled a strong recruiting transfer class.
People seem to be excited again for Cal basketball.
Sure there's no guarantee he'll be successful, but the ingredients are there and he's 100x better than what Cal has had in Fox and Wyking.
He also has strong ties to the Bay Area, which helps selling Cal.
He's also social media literate and he gets that the coach cannot be an introvert and ignore the media, the boosters, etc.
The same thing is going on with Mendoza who had one pretty good game and one at best so-so game. There seem to be people so thirsty for something positive that the horse is standing in the driveway while the cart is all them way in town. They've taken some nice very early returns and turned it into John Wooden and Aaron Rodgers. All anyone is saying is you can acknowledge the optimism without declaring that Knowlton made a home run hire before any games have been played. Zero people are criticizing Madsen or his hiring at this point. They are criticizing fans getting way too far over their skis.
It could certainly change if he can't coach, but with any hire you can only judge them on how they influence the program positively or negatively.
I have been a huge critic of Knowlton since he was hired. I will not detail everything he has done wrong again, but as I've been saying all along, we will be lucky if we even have a program when he is done and I mean that.
Given that we had Knowlton in charge, we are very lucky we ended up with a hire as good as Madsen, and so for Madsen has far exceeded my expectations. Similarly, we are very lucky we are going to be in the ACC and not the MWC. Sure, if we had competent leadership the last 10 years we might be in the B1G, but I'm pretty happy, I don't know how much credit to give Knowlton for Madsen or the ACC, and yes, both could turn out to be disasters, or not enough to save us from ourselves, but right now, they are wins.
I view Knowlton and Madsen the way I view Trump and Operation Warp Speed: horrific leaders who made a rare good decision. I have no problem acknowledging when someone I loath does something right. However, I still believe we will be lucky if our program and democracy still exist when they are finished and I mean that.
I apologize in advance because I know we have pro-Trump antivaxers on our board, I am not trying to rekindle those debates, I am just giving my best analogy for me personally. They might hate Obama but acknowledge that the loans to the US auto industry saved that industry and turned out well or that killing Osama Bin Laden was a win. Or not, maybe they would debate those too, my main point is we don't have to be overly skeptical about Madsen just because Knowlton was in charge of his hiring. Many who hated Williams loved the Wilcox hire. We can hate Knowlton and want him gone and still be happy with how the Madsen hire is going so far. Again, I apologize for using political analogies, I hope people understand the context in which I did.
And yes, Madsen could still turn out to be a flop. Every hire is a gamble made based on the information available. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. However, there are good bets and bad bets. Mark Fox was a horrible bet, and turned out even worse than I feared, but Mark Madsen has a good track record and more important, good fundamentals. A good business plan and the smarts and energy to execute it. I liked other candidates better, but thought he was a good bet and so far he is far exceeeding my expectations.
And for those of us who loathe Knowlton but think Madsen was a good pick all things considered, always remember that with a competent AD we would have Dennis Gates who went 25-10 in his first year coaching in the SEC last year.
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