Obituaries

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okaydo
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bearister
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Al Attles, Warriors' most enduring, selfless legend, dies at 87 NBC Sports Bay Area & California


https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/al-attles-dies-basketball-obituary/1772433/

From a few years back:
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LudwigsFountain
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bearister said:

Al Attles, Warriors' most enduring, selfless legend, dies at 87 NBC Sports Bay Area & California


https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/al-attles-dies-basketball-obituary/1772433/

From a few years back:

Sat next to "The Destroyer" at one of LF jr's basketball tournaments. His nephew was playing. He was a very pleasant guy and was happy to chit chat. I told him I enjoyed watching him and asked about some of his highlights and he eventually said, with a chuckle, well I'm half of the highest scoring tandem in league history.

That surprised me so when I got home I did some research. Al was the second highest scorer, at 17, the night Wilt scored 100.
SFCityBear
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LudwigsFountain said:

bearister said:

Al Attles, Warriors' most enduring, selfless legend, dies at 87 NBC Sports Bay Area & California


https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/al-attles-dies-basketball-obituary/1772433/

From a few years back:

Sat next to "The Destroyer" at one of LF jr's basketball tournaments. His nephew was playing. He was a very pleasant guy and was happy to chit chat. I told him I enjoyed watching him and asked about some of his highlights and he eventually said, with a chuckle, well I'm half of the highest scoring tandem in league history.

That surprised me so when I got home I did some research. Al was the second highest scorer, at 17, the night Wilt scored 100.
Thanks for posting this. Al Attles was a truly great Warrior as a player and a coach. A fine defender, who at 6-1, 175 took on the best players who were in the backcourt for Warrior opponents, like Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, and KC Jones. He was called "the Destroyer" for obvious reasons. There was one night though when he needed a little help. He probably didn't need it, but one of his teammates, Wilt Chamberlain, thought he did.

I did not see the game in person, but was listening on the radio. The Warriors were playing the Detroit Pistons, and Detroit power forward, 6-9, 240 lb Bob Ferry, got into a fight with the much smaller Al Attles. Wilt decided he had seen enough, and ran over, picked up Bob Ferry, and tossed him several rows up into the seats. I don't know what Attles said to Wilt afterward, but my guess is, 'Why did you do that? I was winning."
HearstMining
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I loved hearing Al Attles speak. Every man in America wishes they had a voice that deep.
Big C
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James Earl Jones: "If only I could go down another octave... "

Henry Kissinger: "If only I could lose the German accent... and go down another octave... "
bearister
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HK went down plenty.




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R.I.P.




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smh
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huh, din't know him, but there he is, thanks B..
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0201626
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0201626/bio
smh
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Sergio Mendes passing / remembered, from the washington post..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/06/sergio-mendes-obituary-brazil-bossa-nova/b62e79b4-6c6c-11ef-86b4-58b1d68922fb_story.html..

partial snip..
/****
By David Biller and Gabriela S Pessoa | AP

September 6, 2024 at 2:04 p.m. EDT
RIO DE JANEIRO Sergio Mendes, the celebrated Brazilian musician whose 1966 hit "Mas Que Nada" made him a global superstar and helped launched a long, Grammy-winning career, has died after months battling the effects of long COVID. He was 83.

The death Thursday of the Brazilian pianist, songwriter and arranger was confirmed in a statement by his family.

"His wife and musical partner for the past 54 years, Gracinha Leporace Mendes, was by his side, as were his loving children," the statement Friday said. "Mendes last performed in November 2023 to sold out and wildly enthusiastic houses in Paris, London and Barcelona."

Mendes was born in Niteri, Rio de Janeiro's sister city, and studied classical music at a conservatory before joining jazz groups. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, he began playing Bossa Nova as the genre was heating up in Rio's nightclub scene with Antonio Carlos Jobim, Joo Gilberto and others.

In 1962, they traveled to New York for a Bossa Nova festival at Carnegie Hall. During the trip, Cannonball Adderley invited Mendes to collaborate on the album "Cannonball Adderley and The Bossa Rio Sextet," leading to his first American record, "The Swinger from Rio," after signing with Atlantic Records.

Two years later, Mendes moved to California and formed Brazil '64, which evolved into Brazil '66 after he added two female vocalists. The group's debut album, produced by Herb Alpert, featured "Mas Que Nada."

Sung entirely in Portuguese, "Mas Que Nada" was a mid-tempo Samba number originally released in 1963 by composer Jorge Ben Sor, and updated three years later by Mendes, who had been playing the song in clubs and gave it a jazzier, more hard-hitting feel.

"I put a band together called Brasil '66," he told The Guardian in 2019. "I'd always had instrumental groups, but when I added the two female singers Lani Hall and Bibi Vogel it made a different kind of sound. We recorded the song in Los Angeles, with me, the drums, bass and guitar all performing live."

Mendes' version was a worldwide hit that helped perpetuate the Brazilian music boom of the 1960s. In 2006, a modern version of the song topped U.S. charts, as performed by Black Eyed Peas. It was included in his album "Timeless," produced by will.i.am and also featuring Stevie Wonder, Justin Timberlake and John Legend, among others.

"Sergio Mendes was my brother from another country," trumpet player Alpert wrote on Facebook, along with a photo from decades ago, sitting next to Mendes at the piano. "He was a true friend and extremely gifted musician who brought Brazilian music in all its iterations to the entire world with elegance."

Mendes' other hits were an eclectic blend ranging from covers of the Beatles' "The Fool on the Hill" and "With a Little Help from My Friends," to his own Brazilian chant, "Magalenha." ..
***/


bearister
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descanse em paz




*Yes, his arrangements literally gave birth to the term "making a song his own." His version of Simon & Garfunkel's hit Scarborough Fair was brilliant. Great version of Beatles' Day Tripper.

His version of the Beatles' "The Fool on the Hill," released in 1968, sold four million copies as a single. Mr. Mendes later received a letter from Paul McCartney thanking him for his arrangement of the song. NY Times

I highly recommend this compilation:

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SFCityBear
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smh said:

Sergio Mendes passing / remembered, from the washington post..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/06/sergio-mendes-obituary-brazil-bossa-nova/b62e79b4-6c6c-11ef-86b4-58b1d68922fb_story.html..

partial snip..
/****
By David Biller and Gabriela S Pessoa | AP

September 6, 2024 at 2:04 p.m. EDT
RIO DE JANEIRO Sergio Mendes, the celebrated Brazilian musician whose 1966 hit "Mas Que Nada" made him a global superstar and helped launched a long, Grammy-winning career, has died after months battling the effects of long COVID. He was 83.

The death Thursday of the Brazilian pianist, songwriter and arranger was confirmed in a statement by his family.

"His wife and musical partner for the past 54 years, Gracinha Leporace Mendes, was by his side, as were his loving children," the statement Friday said. "Mendes last performed in November 2023 to sold out and wildly enthusiastic houses in Paris, London and Barcelona."

Mendes was born in Niteri, Rio de Janeiro's sister city, and studied classical music at a conservatory before joining jazz groups. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, he began playing Bossa Nova as the genre was heating up in Rio's nightclub scene with Antonio Carlos Jobim, Joo Gilberto and others.

In 1962, they traveled to New York for a Bossa Nova festival at Carnegie Hall. During the trip, Cannonball Adderley invited Mendes to collaborate on the album "Cannonball Adderley and The Bossa Rio Sextet," leading to his first American record, "The Swinger from Rio," after signing with Atlantic Records.

Two years later, Mendes moved to California and formed Brazil '64, which evolved into Brazil '66 after he added two female vocalists. The group's debut album, produced by Herb Alpert, featured "Mas Que Nada."

Sung entirely in Portuguese, "Mas Que Nada" was a mid-tempo Samba number originally released in 1963 by composer Jorge Ben Sor, and updated three years later by Mendes, who had been playing the song in clubs and gave it a jazzier, more hard-hitting feel.

"I put a band together called Brasil '66," he told The Guardian in 2019. "I'd always had instrumental groups, but when I added the two female singers Lani Hall and Bibi Vogel it made a different kind of sound. We recorded the song in Los Angeles, with me, the drums, bass and guitar all performing live."

Mendes' version was a worldwide hit that helped perpetuate the Brazilian music boom of the 1960s. In 2006, a modern version of the song topped U.S. charts, as performed by Black Eyed Peas. It was included in his album "Timeless," produced by will.i.am and also featuring Stevie Wonder, Justin Timberlake and John Legend, among others.

"Sergio Mendes was my brother from another country," trumpet player Alpert wrote on Facebook, along with a photo from decades ago, sitting next to Mendes at the piano. "He was a true friend and extremely gifted musician who brought Brazilian music in all its iterations to the entire world with elegance."

Mendes' other hits were an eclectic blend ranging from covers of the Beatles' "The Fool on the Hill" and "With a Little Help from My Friends," to his own Brazilian chant, "Magalenha." ..
***/



Very cool. Thanks for posting.
SFCityBear
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bearister said:

descanse em paz




*Yes, his arrangements literally gave birth to the term "making a song his own." His version of Simon & Garfunkel's hit Scarborough Fair was brilliant. Great version of Beatles' Day Tripper.

His version of the Beatles' "The Fool on the Hill," released in 1968, sold four million copies as a single. Mr. Mendes later received a letter from Paul McCartney thanking him for his arrangement of the song. NY Times

I highly recommend this compilation:


More good stuff, Thanks Bearister for the post.

In a slightly different vein, do you remember Cesar Ascarrunz? His club on Green street in North Beach was home to many of the great Latin bands, jazz and salsa. I knew Cesar from Berkeley days when he was playing jazz piano at La Val's on Northside. Cesar was from Bolivia, and I met him through Jose Lizarraga, whose brother, Jaime, played in Cesar's band. Someone influential heard Cesar play, and signed him to a two week deal for a club in Vegas, and Cesar made so much much money from that gig, that he was able to open his own night club in North Beach, where he held court for many years, bringing in Tito Puentes (who played at Cesar's 10 times over the years). Cesar eventually relocated his nightclub to Mission street, in a much bigger venue. All the Latin Bands played there, Santana, and Malo with Luis Gasca. Cesar ran for Mayor of San Francisco a couple of times. He would have made a great Mayor. I spoke with him by phone a few years ago and he was doing well, still working. A lot of the great music and musicians spent time in Berkeley. Of course.

https://www.thelastmambo.com/new-page-2

https://www.dustygroove.com/item/17705/Cesar-Ascarrunz:Cesar-830
HearstMining
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smh said:

huh, din't know him, but there he is, thanks B..
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0201626
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0201626/bio
Seeing this obit, I went down the James Darren rathole. He apparently had a role on final season of Star Trek Deep Space 9 as "Vic Fontaine", a hologram of a 1960s Vegas showroom singer who appeared on the crew's recreational "Holodeck". I was a trekkie as a kid, but haven't watched in years Darren had a couple of hit records in the early 1960s, did his own singing on the Star Trek DS9 episodes and really was quite the crooner. Here's one clip:



HearstMining
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Speaking of Sergio Mendez, former Brasil 66 lead singer, Lani Hall, will be performing with her husband, Herb Alpert on October 8 in Folsom, CA and October 10 in Walnut Creek. I saw them maybe five years ago in Folsom; they are accompanied by a small jazz trio. Such professionals! Herb is 89 and can't blow the trumpet quite like he once did, but what a superb musician and Lani's voice is still lovely. And she does (or did) sing a medley of Brasil 66 hits.
I was 65 and was among the younger folks in the audience which included lots of walkers and a few oxygen tanks, to be sure. But really, a great show.
bearister
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At St. Paschal's Grammar School I found this album cover quite provocative, even though I didn't know what that word meant yet…..
and this was the make out song at the 8th grade graduation parties:


*Does this qualify as a Herb Alpert hijacking of a Sergio Mendez thread?
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~ Muscle Shoals, baby








bearister
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R.I.P.

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Cal88
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bearister said:

R.I.P.



RIP James Earl Jones

Boxer on the left:

John Arthur Johnson, nicknamed the "Galveston Giant", was an American boxer who, at the height of the Jim Crow era, became the first black world heavyweight boxing champion. His 1910 fight against James J. Jeffries was dubbed the "fight of the century". Wikipedia

Born: March 31, 1878, Galveston, Texas, United States

Died: June 10, 1946 (age 68 years), Raleigh, North Carolina, United States


bearister
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July 4, 1910



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smh
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Born January 17, 1931
Died September 9, 2024(93)
https://people.com/james-earl-jones-dead-life-in-photos-5728922
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000469
Quote:

    Widely regarded as the one of greatest stage and screen actors both in his native USA and internationally, James Earl Jones was born on January 17, 1931 in Arkabutla, Mississippi. At an early age, he started to take dramatic lessons to calm himself down. It appeared to work as he has since starred in many films over a 40-year period, beginning with the Stanley Kubrick classic Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964). For several movie fans, he is probably best known for his role as Darth Vader in the original Star Wars trilogy (due to his contribution for the voice of the role, as the man in the Darth Vader suit was David Prowse, whose voice was dubbed because of his British West Country accent). In his brilliant course of memorable performances, among others, he has also appeared on the animated series The Simpsons (1989) three times and played Mufasa both in The Lion King (1994) and The Lion King (2019), while he returned too as the voice of Darth Vader in Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) and Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016).- IMDb Mini Biography By: Jadidi

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bearister
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In Dr. Strangelove
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Big C
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Former poster helltopay1, once a regular on this forum until his "abrupt departure" two years ago, passed away recently.

(If you found him offensive, please do not say bad things about him here, or at least wait a week or so, out of a sense of humanity.)

The reason I know he died is that, after he was banned, he was somehow able to stay in touch via PM and he would write me on a regular basis, calling me "the last good lefty". We talked about one day meeting for lunch or something, but never did, until in July, he told me that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This prompted me to send him my contact info. Last week, a friend of his phoned me to say that he passed away on August 27th at the age of 87.

helltopay1, whose real name was Bob, grew up in San Francisco, where he played some basketball. He always mentioned that he had a sweet outside shot and this was confirmed by his friend, I'm pretty sure that he would've liked me to mention that! Bob served in the US Navy and later lived in Mountain View for a long time, before retiring in Rossmoor (Walnut Creek)

Bob became a life-long fan of Cal Basketball, as he came of age during the Pete Newell Era. In his younger adult years, he claimed to have been a rather liberal Democrat but became more and more conservative as he aged (a natural progression, he believed).

Bob had a sense of humor. He thought it was a good one, but some folks didn't agree (and I understand why... and they have a point). He was banned from posting here for incessantly flooding this forum with political diatribes, some of which could be found to be offensive. This, despite numerous warnings and timeouts: He just couldn't stop himself.

I think I'll leave it at that: Bob was a Cal fan, he absolutely had a good side to him and now he's gone. RIP
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Big C said:


Former poster helltopay1, once a regular on this forum, passed away recently.

(If you found him offensive, please do not say bad things about him here, or at least wait a week or so, out of a sense of humanity.)

The reason I know he died is that, after he was banned, he was somehow able to stay in touch via PM and he would write me on a regular basis (he called me "the last good lefty"). We talked about one day meeting for lunch or something, but never did, until in July, he told me that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This prompted me to send him all of my contact info. Last week, a friend of his phoned me to say that he passed away on August 27th at the age of 87.

helltopay1, whose real name was Bob, grew up in San Francisco, where he played some basketball. He always mentioned that he had a sweet outside shot and this was confirmed by his friend, I'm pretty sure that he would like me to mention that! Bob served in the US Navy and later lived in Mountain View for a long time, before retiring in Rossmoor (Walnut Creek)

Bob became a life-long fan of Cal Basketball, as he came of age during the Pete Newell Era. In his younger adult years, he claimed to have been a rather liberal Democrat but became more and more conservative as he aged (a natural progression, he believed).

Bob had a sense of humor. He thought it was a good one, but some folks didn't agree (and I understand why... and they have a point). He was banned from posting here about two years ago, after he was warned and given timeouts for flooding this forum with political diatribes, some of which could be found to be offensive.

I think I'll leave it at that: Bob was a Cal fan, he absolutely had a good side to him and now he's gone. RIP
I'm sorry to hear about his passing. Thanks for sharing that with us. He was not my favorite poster by a long shot and I mocked him regularly, but I had the feeling he might be interesting to have lunch with if you stayed away from politics. Even if it turned out to be an in person train wreck. RIP Bob.
82gradDLSdad
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Big C said:


Former poster helltopay1, once a regular on this forum, passed away recently.

(If you found him offensive, please do not say bad things about him here, or at least wait a week or so, out of a sense of humanity.)

The reason I know he died is that, after he was banned, he was somehow able to stay in touch via PM and he would write me on a regular basis, calling me "the last good lefty". We talked about one day meeting for lunch or something, but never did, until in July, he told me that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This prompted me to send him my contact info. Last week, a friend of his phoned me to say that he passed away on August 27th at the age of 87.

helltopay1, whose real name was Bob, grew up in San Francisco, where he played some basketball. He always mentioned that he had a sweet outside shot and this was confirmed by his friend, I'm pretty sure that he would like me to mention that! Bob served in the US Navy and later lived in Mountain View for a long time, before retiring in Rossmoor (Walnut Creek)

Bob became a life-long fan of Cal Basketball, as he came of age during the Pete Newell Era. In his younger adult years, he claimed to have been a rather liberal Democrat but became more and more conservative as he aged (a natural progression, he believed).

Bob had a sense of humor. He thought it was a good one, but some folks didn't agree (and I understand why... and they have a point). He was banned from posting here about two years ago, after he was warned and given timeouts for flooding this forum with political diatribes, some of which could be found to be offensive.

I think I'll leave it at that: Bob was a Cal fan, he absolutely had a good side to him and now he's gone. RIP


I often find that the most opinionated, stubborn, raw people have a good side. And most time I have no problems spending time with them. Online, it seems, the opinionated, stubborn side is the only side we see. That's tough after a while. RIP Bob.
calbearinamaze
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Thank you for posting.

RIP htp1



If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
59bear
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Big C said:


Former poster helltopay1, once a regular on this forum until his "abrupt departure" two years ago, passed away recently.

(If you found him offensive, please do not say bad things about him here, or at least wait a week or so, out of a sense of humanity.)

The reason I know he died is that, after he was banned, he was somehow able to stay in touch via PM and he would write me on a regular basis, calling me "the last good lefty". We talked about one day meeting for lunch or something, but never did, until in July, he told me that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This prompted me to send him my contact info. Last week, a friend of his phoned me to say that he passed away on August 27th at the age of 87.

helltopay1, whose real name was Bob, grew up in San Francisco, where he played some basketball. He always mentioned that he had a sweet outside shot and this was confirmed by his friend, I'm pretty sure that he would've liked me to mention that! Bob served in the US Navy and later lived in Mountain View for a long time, before retiring in Rossmoor (Walnut Creek)

Bob became a life-long fan of Cal Basketball, as he came of age during the Pete Newell Era. In his younger adult years, he claimed to have been a rather liberal Democrat but became more and more conservative as he aged (a natural progression, he believed).

Bob had a sense of humor. He thought it was a good one, but some folks didn't agree (and I understand why... and they have a point). He was banned from posting here for incessantly flooding this forum with political diatribes, some of which could be found to be offensive. This, despite numerous warnings and timeouts: He just couldn't stop himself.

I think I'll leave it at that: Bob was a Cal fan, he absolutely had a good side to him and now he's gone. RIP
IIRC he did not attend Cal although he professed to be an avid fan. His age would make him one of my contemporaries, an ever diminishing faction. on this forum. RIP from a fellow curmudgeon.
SBGold
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82gradDLSdad said:

Big C said:


Former poster helltopay1, once a regular on this forum, passed away recently.

(If you found him offensive, please do not say bad things about him here, or at least wait a week or so, out of a sense of humanity.)

The reason I know he died is that, after he was banned, he was somehow able to stay in touch via PM and he would write me on a regular basis, calling me "the last good lefty". We talked about one day meeting for lunch or something, but never did, until in July, he told me that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This prompted me to send him my contact info. Last week, a friend of his phoned me to say that he passed away on August 27th at the age of 87.

helltopay1, whose real name was Bob, grew up in San Francisco, where he played some basketball. He always mentioned that he had a sweet outside shot and this was confirmed by his friend, I'm pretty sure that he would like me to mention that! Bob served in the US Navy and later lived in Mountain View for a long time, before retiring in Rossmoor (Walnut Creek)

Bob became a life-long fan of Cal Basketball, as he came of age during the Pete Newell Era. In his younger adult years, he claimed to have been a rather liberal Democrat but became more and more conservative as he aged (a natural progression, he believed).

Bob had a sense of humor. He thought it was a good one, but some folks didn't agree (and I understand why... and they have a point). He was banned from posting here about two years ago, after he was warned and given timeouts for flooding this forum with political diatribes, some of which could be found to be offensive.

I think I'll leave it at that: Bob was a Cal fan, he absolutely had a good side to him and now he's gone. RIP


I often find that the most opinionated, stubborn, raw people have a good side. And most time I have no problems spending time with them. Online, it seems, the opinionated, stubborn side is the only side we see. That's tough after a while. RIP Bob.
Totally agree with this. RIP
MiZery
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Somehow I don't think bear2034 has a good side

RIP helltopay1
oskidunker
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Bob Randall. I could find no obituary but most people don't pay the ransom to list in a newspaper nobody reads. If youmlive long enough all your friends are dead, what's the point? My mother lived to100 and there were none of her friends left, so we passed
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
bear2034
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Big C said:


Former poster helltopay1, once a regular on this forum until his "abrupt departure" two years ago, passed away recently.

(If you found him offensive, please do not say bad things about him here, or at least wait a week or so, out of a sense of humanity.)

The reason I know he died is that, after he was banned, he was somehow able to stay in touch via PM and he would write me on a regular basis, calling me "the last good lefty". We talked about one day meeting for lunch or something, but never did, until in July, he told me that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This prompted me to send him my contact info. Last week, a friend of his phoned me to say that he passed away on August 27th at the age of 87.

helltopay1, whose real name was Bob, grew up in San Francisco, where he played some basketball. He always mentioned that he had a sweet outside shot and this was confirmed by his friend, I'm pretty sure that he would've liked me to mention that! Bob served in the US Navy and later lived in Mountain View for a long time, before retiring in Rossmoor (Walnut Creek)

Bob became a life-long fan of Cal Basketball, as he came of age during the Pete Newell Era. In his younger adult years, he claimed to have been a rather liberal Democrat but became more and more conservative as he aged (a natural progression, he believed).

Bob had a sense of humor. He thought it was a good one, but some folks didn't agree (and I understand why... and they have a point). He was banned from posting here for incessantly flooding this forum with political diatribes, some of which could be found to be offensive. This, despite numerous warnings and timeouts: He just couldn't stop himself.

I think I'll leave it at that: Bob was a Cal fan, he absolutely had a good side to him and now he's gone. RIP

Thanks for posting this, Big C. I generally don't visit the Obituaries thread so I missed this yesterday. I know his posting style irked some; he was the original internet troll before the internet was invented! He liked to remind posters once in a while that even his dead (cat/dog) was smarter than them. He had both a cat and a dog? I remembered he once posted that after his dog passed away, things were never the same, it hit him hard. Despite his age, he was sharp, witty, and had many interesting Bay Area related stories that he shared. I'm really sorry that I didn't get a chance to say goodbye....

RIP helltopay1 (Bob)
Big C
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^ Yeah, his "obituary" so far, oskidunker, is that I wrote what I knew about his life and his passing... and posted it in the "Obituaries" thread (Thx again, concordtom, for this thread!).
bearister
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Now I feel guilty as Hell that I blasted him in HORSE with 5 consecutive dunks.
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smh
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Big C said:

^ Yeah, his "obituary" so far, oskidunker, is that I wrote what I knew about his life and his passing... and posted it in the "Obituaries" thread (Thx again, concordtom, for this thread!).
singalong time: i second that emotion.

infamous Big C vital stats, got by clicking his handle..
> Blue Stars 34,925 (Rank: #3)
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