More than a half century or so ago, when I was on the schoolyard, we all took turns ganging up on each other so much that, when we grew up, we had gotten it out of our systems. Nowadays, "helicopter" adults put a stop to it too soon, but once their kids grow up and leave the nest, they can't hover over them anymore.

sycasey said:

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calbear93 said:

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sycasey said:

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calbear93 said:

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sycasey said:

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calbear93 said:

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Big C said:

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Back to DeSantis: Yes, he is probably smart and he might be competent, I don't know. But the way he's constantly playing the "culture wars" card, he comes off to me as mean and calculating. Sure, being calculating is part of politics, but I'd like to see a lot more "competent" and less bs. Show me your vision for all Americans, beyond "Florida is where woke goes to die!" Hard no on DeSantis. What a phony. I would prefer Gavin Newsom in a heartbeat.

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You don't think Gavin Newsom is phony? You don't think he says things to play to his base?

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Newsom does seem a bit phony. But he doesn't seem vindictive or mean. Everything DeSantis says or does seems like he's just trying to get back at somebody.

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I think Newsom does come out as mean but in a frat boy mean type of way. Not sure whether he is vindictive or not, but I suppose you cannot rise as he has politically in California without being vindictive.

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I see Newsom as more smarmy than mean. Like he's going to lecture you about what you're doing wrong, when these are standards he can't even live up to himself.

But does he tend to attack people who don't do what he wants? I mean, besides other politicians who oppose his agenda? I don't think so. DeSantis does that. He went at some high school kids just because they were wearing masks while standing behind him, for crissakes.

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That was definitely a political move. When he is standing against what he viewed as oppressive nature of the COVID mandates (mask wearing is pretty basic - did not agree with him there), it would have been a bad photo op for him to stand in front of kids wearing masks. Petty but I get the political annoyance.

Never said he was perfect, but, in light of economic policies, his prior positions as a member of congress, his willingness to serve in the military despite having graduated from Harvard Law School with honors, etc., I would prefer him by far over Trump and I prefer his policies over those of Biden and the progressive left. So, holistically, I prefer him over Trump, Biden and most likely Newsom. Again, not perfect but someone I can support.

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If he dislikes mask wearing, then whatever, that's his preference. He can be annoyed about it.

But he turned around and chewed out those kids live in front of people and TV cameras. They're not public figures or political opponents, they're just students! Any way you shake it, seems like a d*** move. That's why I think he's just mean, politics and policy preference aside.

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Yes, that was not the most graceful moment. His frustration must have been that the kids who were going to be on tv with him should have been told about his position and not wear something he foolishly positioned himself against.

Again, not perfect but the best option of getting Trump gone for good and someone I could support over Biden.

Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

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From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

calbear93 said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

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Do you think any Democrats are a holes? Does that stop you from supporting them?

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Andrew Cuomo, definitely.

As to the second question, I didn't say anything about supporting a-holes for their policies. I get that. I was just making the point that to me DeSantis seems like an a-hole. Would he be preferable to Trump? Yeah, probably. Trump is also an a-hole and way more volatile.

Nevada Senate Race is now down to only 8900 votes.

She's been winning about 61% of the votes in the latest counties being counted.

Cortez Masto draws closer to Laxalt in Nevada Senate race (yahoo.com)

NBC projects Rs will win the house 222-213.

(That projects to be at least 8 seats lower than what most prognosticators thought)

Bonus observation: this is the first election since the 2020 redrawing lines. I suspect many of these seats - both ways - were less competitive than before and that we all overlooked that effect. (Eg, recent stories denote how NM and NV seats were redrawn and are now more demonstrably +D. No complaining from me…elections have consequences)

tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

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True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

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That's the beauty of Trump: he can't ever hide what a gigantic asshat he is. And by asshat I mean every possible bad trait a human can have. Mitt sounds like a pro at hiding his true self when the cameras are on.

82gradDLSdad said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

---

True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

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That's the beauty of Trump: he can't ever hide what a gigantic asshat he is. And by asshat I mean every possible bad trait a human can have. Mitt sounds like a pro at hiding his true self when the cameras are on.

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When Romney lost the Pres election one observation was that he was terrible at retail politics. It seemed like such a weird observation because like the rest of you, I had a favorable opinion based on his public persona. After that encounter it made perfect sense. NOBODY that interacts with Romney personally would be charmed by him, like him, want to follow him. Trump is many things but he actually is good at retail politics - he really connects with people.

tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

---

True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

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Hah, well I've never met the man (nor DeSantis or Newsom). Just have an impression from public statements and speeches.

tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

---

True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

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I bet Mitt Romney thinks anyone who has worked the past ten years is either a multi-millionaire or financially illiterate.

dajo9 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

---

True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

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I bet Mitt Romney thinks anyone who has worked the past ten years is either a multi-millionaire or financially illiterate.

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The jab that just won't stop...

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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This thread appears to have a couple of people rapidly heading towards BearFarce2 2020 election day territory.

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Maybe they, too, will eventually be jettisoned to outer space.

DiabloWags said:

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concordtom said:

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So, I think you're a Class A Liar!!!

Because as much as I read here, if you flaunted the type of beer you drink then I'm pretty sure I'd know about it.

So, what kind is it??

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HENHOUSE IPA

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/108165

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Where can I buy it?
I'll check it out and let you know.

tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

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Totally completely wrong.
Don't be a simpleton.

sycasey said:

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calbear93 said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

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Do you think any Democrats are a holes? Does that stop you from supporting them?

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Andrew Cuomo, definitely.

As to the second question, I didn't say anything about supporting a-holes for their policies. I get that. I was just making the point that to me DeSantis seems like an a-hole. Would he be preferable to Trump? Yeah, probably. Trump is also an a-hole and way more volatile.

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If I can… redirect the point…
It's not necessarily whether a person is an A-hole or not. It's more importantly a question of basic illegality and particularly one of upholding proper peaceful democracy and transfer of power.

Being a jerk < being a coup operative that threatens every law in the land.

concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

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Totally completely wrong.
Don't be a simpleton.

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Fine, prove it. Name some.

And it goes both ways. Repubs will be hard pressed to name D's they affirmatively like.

It is just the nature of the beast. The 'other side' fundamentally sees the world differently. Maybe you occasionally come across one who would be fun to have a beer with (Clinton, Obama) but that doesn't mean you'd want to spend the next 4 years under their watch.

Big C said:

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Big C said:

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calbear93 said:

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Big C said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

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I could get behind Abraham Lincoln. Well, provided he supports universal mask mandates and LBGTQ+ issues. Still would prefer a BIPOC candidate though. I don't know... what are Lincoln's pronouns?

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We can all learn from you on how to disagree but still be likable.

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Yeah? Get f***ed, every last one of you.

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^^^ ^^^

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Sex is healthy.
Sex is good.
I wish for everyone to receive your wish (even movielover, who might moderate, but not Trump. May tapeworms consume from the inside out.)

Unit2Sucks said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

---

True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

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You could easily be describing Gavin Newsom. Trump isn't the only narcissist in politics, he's just the most toxic. I think the people who are really more "of the people" like Dubya, Bill C and Biden are few and far between.

I'm not sure how much it matters to be honest. I used to run into Gavin's wife (not Guilfoyle, the newer one) quite often and his wife is a genuinely nice and sweet person who was always enthusiastically nice to me and my girlfriend. He was busy being mayor so I almost never saw him. I think the only time Gavin acknowledged my existence was when we were waiting for an elevator together and he said "I'll get the next one." The building only had one elevator so what it really came across as "I am unwilling to be in your presence if I have a choice." His wife was there and I could tell she was not enthused. I should also note that this was late at night, I was a young drunk kid in a camo jacket and they were in formal wear and that he didn't know me from Robert Deniro in taxi driver.

I would still support Gavin if he ran for president because I think he has very good policy instincts for the most part and as a tall white man "straight out of central casting" he would wipe the floor with Trump in 2024.

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There is a security component. I was waiting for an elevator once with the guy who shot bin Laden. He had a security guy with him. The security guy asked me to wait for the next elevator, which I did.

dajo9 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

From a policy perspective? No, I don't like Republicans, except maybe on the occasional individual issue.

But just as people? There are plenty who don't seem like a**holes. Mitt Romney, for example.

---

True story - I met Mitt Romney while escorting my son's 8th grade class to DC. He was adjacent to us in the airport and on the tram. He is among the biggest a**holes I've ever encountered in my life, politics or not politics. Just dripping in arrogance and not to be bothered by interacting with the peasants who are below his place in life. He refused a picture with the boys and did it in a way that was really just not nice. His wife realized what an a-hole he was being, jumped in and got him to do it. I seriously do not like that guy. If he died in a plane crash this morning I … well, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Yes, he made that much of a negative impression in just 10-15 minutes. Terrible terrible human.

---

You could easily be describing Gavin Newsom. Trump isn't the only narcissist in politics, he's just the most toxic. I think the people who are really more "of the people" like Dubya, Bill C and Biden are few and far between.

I'm not sure how much it matters to be honest. I used to run into Gavin's wife (not Guilfoyle, the newer one) quite often and his wife is a genuinely nice and sweet person who was always enthusiastically nice to me and my girlfriend. He was busy being mayor so I almost never saw him. I think the only time Gavin acknowledged my existence was when we were waiting for an elevator together and he said "I'll get the next one." The building only had one elevator so what it really came across as "I am unwilling to be in your presence if I have a choice." His wife was there and I could tell she was not enthused. I should also note that this was late at night, I was a young drunk kid in a camo jacket and they were in formal wear and that he didn't know me from Robert Deniro in taxi driver.

I would still support Gavin if he ran for president because I think he has very good policy instincts for the most part and as a tall white man "straight out of central casting" he would wipe the floor with Trump in 2024.

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There is a security component. I was waiting for an elevator once with the guy who shot bin Laden. He had a security guy with him. The security guy asked me to wait for the next elevator, which I did.

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It didn't feel that way that night but in my inebriated state I definitely wasn't in my finest hour. In fairness, he was polite and it was kind of funny because we all knew there was no "next elevator" but his limousine liberal reputation is definitely not unearned.

tequila4kapp said:

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concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Let's be honest, there's no Republican you guys are going to like. That's fine, but if that's the case this exercise in proving why DeSantis is bad is kind of pointless.

---

Totally completely wrong.
Don't be a simpleton.

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Fine, prove it. Name some.

And it goes both ways. Repubs will be hard pressed to name D's they affirmatively like.

It is just the nature of the beast. The 'other side' fundamentally sees the world differently. Maybe you occasionally come across one who would be fun to have a beer with (Clinton, Obama) but that doesn't mean you'd want to spend the next 4 years under their watch.

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Don't be so fixed on a partisan mindset. This isn't the Cowboys vs the 49ers, Cal vs Stanford.

While you and I have a history going back 10 years on the sports boards, you haven't been an OT regular for the past 6 years where I've spoken to that point numerous times and described my personal history and beliefs. Quick summary:

I grew up in two families with strong Republican beliefs and political connections. Democrats were deemed "tax and spend" inner city losers. My bias began to change when I married into a locally political RI family who were Democrats focused on helping the underprivileged but who were behaviorally more conservative than my California roots. New England is full of conservative Democrats and it's not far off from what President Bush Sr described as, "compassionate conservatives".

Since Trump came along, I came to understand the battle that partisan politics is. I didn't get it when newt Gingrich began his divisive approach to gathering power. I didn't get it when Ken Starr snooped his way into consenting adults' private affairs.

But I have been lit by Trump's outrageous rudeness AND the entire republican caucus went along with him. Absolute madness! Just like Hitler in the early going. "President For Life?" Oh, yeah. It was ON, and he wasn't going to stop if he had been allowed to continue.

But, wait! There were quite a number of Republicans who stood up and stopped him, even if only for a blink.

Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger are two popular names right now, but let's not forget the likes of Jeff Flake and Bob Corker. They may have been too tepid for the moment, but they spoke up. I admired that they did.
Of course, Pence was vital on Jan 6, and is spilling some beans now, but he's too much like Lindsay Graham and Kevin McCarthy - one speech against but then right back in bed supporting Trump. So, those 3 are out.
McConnell is also out, because while he hates trump and has spoken against him on multiple occasions, he did not do so enough and instead simply played it, ride coattails for his personal aims, so he's unacceptable, too.

But let's look at those who voted for impeachment! I like them!!! Mitt Romney et al.

These are the characters I can support, and I'm confident that if a politician is able to see beyond partisan issues like Trump (which should be BASIC), we can negotiate on social and economic policies that best support Americans.

Yes, my policy posture has slanted more toward my in-laws (who ran a nonprofit supporting the developmentally disabled). I have a bigger heart now than when I was younger. It takes a village, whether you are born with Downs, in poverty to a broken home, or (frankly) to rich parents with all the advantages - which is no guarantee of success. We are social creatures, quite complex, and the fates play a huge role, too. Rugged individualism, reward for one's own merit, capitalism, and the profit motive all very much have their place! But so does "togetherness"!

My war against Republicans is first and foremost against Trumpism. I imagine what I've written here sounds reasonable to many Republicans and Democrats alike.

Good post. I appreciate people who can be introspective and who see evidence in front of them and are open to change. Personal growth FTW.

Note that something like 3 of 7 pictured Senators and 8 of 10 House members are now gone.

I used to strive to find a Republican to vote for because I wanted to be "open minded". I have regretted it every time my whole life, including even recently when a local Republican official I had voted for lied to my daughter's face (Gen Z, not voting age yet but coming for Republicans soon) about a local plastics issue.