The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

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Cal88
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2:23p, 1/25/25
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bearister
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7:43p, 1/25/25
Yogi, your boy finally laid his cards on the table:

Trump suggests his plan for Gaza Strip is to 'clean out the whole thing' | CNN Politics


https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/25/politics/trump-gaza-strip-jordan-egypt/index.html

"You're talking about a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing," Trump said, adding that there have been centuries-long conflicts in the region…… I'd rather get involved with some of the Arab nations and build housing in a different location where I think they could maybe live in peace for a change."

Yeah, Trump really owns Bibi, doesn't he? The good Ambassador Huckabee must have reminded Trump that there is no such thing as a Palestinian.

" Jared Kushner has praised the "very valuable" potential of Gaza's "waterfront property" and suggested Israel should remove civilians while it "cleans up" the strip."
…… Asked by Masoud about fears on the part of Arabs in the region that the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, would not allow Palestinians who flee Gaza to return, Kushner paused and then said: "Maybe."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other



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tequila4kapp
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7:50a, 1/26/25
Wasn't there something along these lines in the first admin? I seem to recall some talk of a deal that included different land. It's a smart and practical plan, if one completely ignores the human element.
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Cal88
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 9:22a, 1/26/25
Ethnic cleansing is "smart and practical".
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:08a, 1/26/25
Cal88 said:
Ethnic cleansing is "smart and practical".
Give me a break.

It's practical that if an area is completely destroyed you look for a better area for people to live.

It is practical to discern that Jews and Palestinians will never live side by side - 2 state solution - as long as Palestinians insist that Israel must be removed from the face of the map and all Jews killed.

It is IMpractical to think two nations that expelled Palestinians because they actively worked to undermine the government would ever take them back.

It is IMpractical to ignore the societal / political realities of Jordan and Egypt which make this impossible, namely that they are unstable regimes and their populations overwhelmingly side with the Palestinians.
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bearister
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10:42a, 1/26/25
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tequila4kapp
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11:06a, 1/26/25
By the way, I think we just got our answer for why the Netanyahu government would agree to a peace deal that did not eliminate Hamas.

As currently reported, I really do not like this plan. The Palestinians are a society / peoples. You cannot eliminate them by dispersing them throughout the Middle East. This seems highly untenable.
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bearister
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 11:45a, 1/26/25
tequila4kapp said:
By the way, I think we just got our answer for why the Netanyahu government would agree to a peace deal that did not eliminate Hamas.

As currently reported, I really do not like this plan. The Palestinians are a society / peoples. You cannot eliminate them. I dispersing them throughout the Middle East. This seems highly untenable.


…. and yet some on this board would have you believe that the ceasefire occurred because Bibi feared strongman Trump. There was a reason that Bibi and the Far Right in Israel favored Trump in the election.

The Arab Americans that are sympathetic to the Palestinian people and that fell for this con and voted for Trump can now take their place in the long line along with everyone else that has ever been f@ucked by Trump.*

*The revelation of Trump betrayals will be in continuous roll out now. A whole lot of people will be coming out of that proverbial restroom, unlike Michael, with just their dicks in their hands.
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Anarchistbear
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 12:27p, 1/26/25
tequila4kapp said:
Cal88 said:
Ethnic cleansing is "smart and practical".
Give me a break.

It's practical that if an area is completely destroyed you look for a better area for people to live.

It is practical to discern that Jews and Palestinians will never live side by side - 2 state solution - as long as Palestinians insist that Israel must be removed from the face of the map and all Jews killed.

It is IMpractical to think two nations that expelled Palestinians because they actively worked to undermine the government would ever take them back.

It is IMpractical to ignore the societal / political realities of Jordan and Egypt which make this impossible, namely that they are unstable regimes and their populations overwhelmingly side with the Palestinians.


Jordan and Egypt aren't about to admit people associated with fundamentalist Muslim. They have their own problems with these groups

Israel has the whip hand now but it's over. Young Israelis are leaving. It is a pariah state. It'll be gone in a decade
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bearister
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 1:51p, 1/26/25
Anarchistbear said:


Jordan and Egypt aren't about to admit people associated with fundamentalist Muslim. They have their own problems with these groups

Israel has the whip hand now but it's over. Young Israelis are leaving. It is a pariah state. It'll be gone in a decade


"Trump does have leverage to wield over Jordan, which is a debt-strapped, but strategically important, U.S. ally and is heavily dependent on foreign aid. The U.S. is historically the single-largest provider of that aid, including more than $1.6 billion through the State Department in 2023.

Much of that comes as support for Jordan's security forces and direct budget support.

Jordan in return has been a vital regional partner to the U.S. in trying to help keep the region stable. Jordan hosts some 3,000 U.S. troops. Yet, on Friday, new Secretary of State Marco Rubio exempted security assistance to Israel and Egypt but not to Jordan, when he laid out the details of a freeze on foreign assistance that Trump ordered on his first day in office."

Connect the dots. Trump will tell Egypt he will turn off the foreign aid spigot and tell Jordan he will turn the foreign aid spigot back on if they get the pesky Palestinian refugees out of his and Bibi's way (plus add sweetener to said aid). The Trump companies got some beachfront developin' to do. There are beaks that need gettin' wet.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2025/01/26/president-trump-palestinian-refugees-jordan-egypt-israel/stories/202501260123



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bearister
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In reply to Return of the King • 2:25p, 1/26/25
What is your favorite term, "whataboutism?" Biden gone, bro. Your boy won. He is The Establishment. Now he is the one f@ucking his voters and the Palestinians over. Trump will get it done because he won't hesitate to cut aid to get his way.


Just think what these spoiled brat bitter former Bernie supporters set in motion by supporting Trump….and as Trump starts laying waste to the landscape, these people will deny they had anything to do with Trump 3 times before the rooster crows.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to bearister • 4:54p, 1/26/25
That would be historically mind numbingly dumb. There is zero chance - ZERO - those countries lay down to Trump on this. They'll be overthrown by coup (Jordan) and run out of office at the next election (Egypt) in short order. The Kind of Jordan and leader in Egypt will tell Trump to pound sand and run to Russia / China to get that same aid elsewhere. There are times when some intelligence and nuance are required from a President and this is one of them.

An alternative theoretical approach that is better - though still highly improbable would be to get Jordan or Egypt to sell some unused desert adjacent to a body of water and create a new Palestinian state.
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sycasey
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 5:02p, 1/26/25
Anarchistbear said:
tequila4kapp said:
Cal88 said:
Ethnic cleansing is "smart and practical".
Give me a break.

It's practical that if an area is completely destroyed you look for a better area for people to live.

It is practical to discern that Jews and Palestinians will never live side by side - 2 state solution - as long as Palestinians insist that Israel must be removed from the face of the map and all Jews killed.

It is IMpractical to think two nations that expelled Palestinians because they actively worked to undermine the government would ever take them back.

It is IMpractical to ignore the societal / political realities of Jordan and Egypt which make this impossible, namely that they are unstable regimes and their populations overwhelmingly side with the Palestinians.


Jordan and Egypt aren't about to admit people associated with fundamentalist Muslim. They have their own problems with these groups

Israel has the whip hand now but it's over. Young Israelis are leaving. It is a pariah state. It'll be gone in a decade
A decade?! That's pretty fast.
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bearister
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 5:20p, 1/26/25
"There are times when some intelligence and nuance are required from a President and this is one of them."

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BearGoggles
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 11:29p, 1/26/25
tequila4kapp said:
That would be historically mind numbingly dumb. There is zero chance - ZERO - those countries lay down to Trump on this. They'll be overthrown by coup (Jordan) and run out of office at the next election (Egypt) in short order. The Kind of Jordan and leader in Egypt will tell Trump to pound sand and run to Russia / China to get that same aid elsewhere. There are times when some intelligence and nuance are required from a President and this is one of them.

An alternative theoretical approach that is better - though still highly improbable would be to get Jordan or Egypt to sell some unused desert adjacent to a body of water and create a new Palestinian state.
My take - Trump knows this. It is very obvious. This is his way of putting pressure on those countries - particularly Egypt - to move off of their support for Hamas while also sending a message to the Palestinians that they need to be more constructive.

It is the opposite side of the coin of his putting pressure on Bibi to sign the cease fire agreement. He's working the refs on both sides.
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BearGoggles
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In reply to Dem Election Deniers • 1:31a, 1/27/25
Dem Election Deniers said:
BearGoggles said:
tequila4kapp said:
That would be historically mind numbingly dumb. There is zero chance - ZERO - those countries lay down to Trump on this. They'll be overthrown by coup (Jordan) and run out of office at the next election (Egypt) in short order. The Kind of Jordan and leader in Egypt will tell Trump to pound sand and run to Russia / China to get that same aid elsewhere. There are times when some intelligence and nuance are required from a President and this is one of them.

An alternative theoretical approach that is better - though still highly improbable would be to get Jordan or Egypt to sell some unused desert adjacent to a body of water and create a new Palestinian state.
My take - Trump knows this. It is very obvious. This is his way of putting pressure on those countries - particularly Egypt - to move off of their support for Hamas while also sending a message to the Palestinians that they need to be more constructive.

It is the opposite side of the coin of his putting pressure on Bibi to sign the cease fire agreement. He's working the refs on both sides.
Giving Trump too much credit for having thought of the consequences of the things he says is foolish. In Biden's case it was because his brain was fried and he wasn't actually in charge. In Trump's case, he's not smart enough to think of the consequences of what he says. He just says things and if they happen to be true, it's by accident.

The best way to judge any politician at any rate is to pay far less attention to what they say than what they do.
This is even more true with Trump, who says a lot of idiotic and false things. But what has he done, particularly in the Middle East? He was pretty successful in his first term. Time will tell.
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Cal88
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10:27p, 1/31/25
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7:36a, 2/3/25
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:13p, 2/3/25
Cal88 said:
Maybe Hamas shouldn't invaded Israel first. Israel had a huge overreaction, but it wasn't unprovoked.
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Cal88
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 3:21p, 2/3/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Cal88 said:
Maybe Hamas shouldn't invaded Israel first. Israel had a huge overreaction, but it wasn't unprovoked.

At least with some of the more knowledgeable Democrats, you might have a bit of a better understanding of this issue vs the Reps who are easily gaslighted by Fox, but with you here it looks pretty hopeless.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:25p, 2/3/25
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Cal88 said:
Maybe Hamas shouldn't invaded Israel first. Israel had a huge overreaction, but it wasn't unprovoked.

At least with some of the more knowledgeable Democrats, you might a bit of a better understanding of this issue vs the Reps who are easily gaslighted by Fox, but with you here it looks pretty hopeless.
So you're saying the destruction of Gaza would have happened anyway even if Hamas had stayed inside it's border and not conducted a killing spree in southern Israel?
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Cal88
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 3:45p, 2/3/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Cal88 said:
Maybe Hamas shouldn't invaded Israel first. Israel had a huge overreaction, but it wasn't unprovoked.

At least with some of the more knowledgeable Democrats, you might a bit of a better understanding of this issue vs the Reps who are easily gaslighted by Fox, but with you here it looks pretty hopeless.
So you're saying the destruction of Gaza would have happened anyway even if Hamas had stayed inside it's border and not conducted a killing spree in southern Israel?

The destruction of the West Bank is ongoing. The Israelis have been conducting killing sprees on Palestinians every year since the 1940s, the fact that most of these don't make your nightly news doesn't mean they never happened. in 2018-19 alone the Israelis shot over 8,000 unarmed Gaza protestors.







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Cal88
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7:18p, 2/3/25
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Return of the King
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:10p, 2/4/25
The peace President continuing to use U.S. power and influence to force genocidal maniac Netanyahu to stick to the terms of the ceasefire. Something that Genocide Joe never once attempted to do.


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bearister
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In reply to Return of the King • 3:43p, 2/4/25
Return of the King said:
The peace President continuing to use U.S. power and influence to force genocidal maniac Netanyahu to stick to the terms of the ceasefire. Something that Genocide Joe never once attempted to do.



Well, Yogi, it played out like I predicted throughout this thread. Trump an accessory after the fact to genocide. I don't think the Palestinians are buying any of your arguments how great your guy Trump is. Biden helped kill them, and Trump gave their home away and rewarded the genocidal conduct.

"The US president said he would support an effort to permanently resettle Palestinians from Gaza to places where they can live without fear of violence.

Trump described Gaza as a "demolition site". "The whole thing is a mess. It's all death," he said.

I think we need another location … If we can get a beautiful area to resettle people permanently.
He said he believed Palestinians should not be going back to Gaza. "Why would they want to return? The place has been hell," he said.

Asked how many people he believed should be resettled from Gaza, Trump replied: "All of them."
-The Guardian



*All of Trump's childish arguments for why the Palestinians should not want to return to Gaza were formulated by an idiot that presumed people are all as dumb as Trump's non wealthy supporters and would be convinced.
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Cal88
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In reply to bearister • 4:08p, 2/4/25
bearister said:
Return of the King said:
The peace President continuing to use U.S. power and influence to force genocidal maniac Netanyahu to stick to the terms of the ceasefire. Something that Genocide Joe never once attempted to do.



Well, Yogi, it played out like I predicted throughout this thread. Trump an accessory after the fact to genocide. I don't think the Palestinians are buying any of your arguments how great your guy Trump is. Biden helped kill them, and Trump gave their home away and rewarded the genocidal conduct.

"The US president said he would support an effort to permanently resettle Palestinians from Gaza to places where they can live without fear of violence.

Trump described Gaza as a "demolition site". "The whole thing is a mess. It's all death," he said.

I think we need another location … If we can get a beautiful area to resettle people permanently.
He said he believed Palestinians should not be going back to Gaza. "Why would they want to return? The place has been hell," he said.

Asked how many people he believed should be resettled from Gaza, Trump replied: "All of them."
-The Guardian



*All of Trump's childish arguments for why the Palestinians should not want to return to Gaza were formulated by an idiot that presumed people are all as dumb as Trump's non wealthy supporters and would be convinced.

Agreed, it looks like Trump is ready to deliver on his $100 million buyout by the Adelsons.

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Anarchistbear
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4:13p, 2/4/25
Trump said he thinks the US should take over Gaza.
Man, with Greenland, Canada and Gaza, we are going to have a lot more possible college football conferences
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bearister
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In reply to Cal88 • 4:39p, 2/4/25
Trump left a trail of broken hearts and passionate enemies his entire career because of his fraudulent business practices….but his enemies played by the Marques of Queensberry Rules. Most had to quietly suppress their rage because they couldn't take on the wealthier and more aggressive opponent. Those with means resorted to the courts.

Now Trump is p@issing off a whole new group of people: Iranians, Palestinians, and working class fanatics that he radicalized with his bullsh@it who will eventually figure out that he f@ucked them.
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bearister
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4:51p, 2/4/25
"In a news conference, Trump said Gaza could be "the Riveria of the Middle East" after Palestinians are relocated."
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/trump-gaza-real-estate-grab/amp/

Jared Kushner was arrogant enough to telegraph the Trump Empire's plan for the Palestinians and Gaza almost a year ago:

Jared Kushner says Gaza's 'waterfront property could be very valuable'


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

What the Trumps have in mind:

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BearNIt
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In reply to bearister • 5:16p, 2/4/25
bearister said:
"In a news conference, Trump said Gaza could be "the Riveria of the Middle East" after Palestinians are relocated."
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/trump-gaza-real-estate-grab/amp/

Jared Kushner was arrogant enough to telegraph the Trump Empire's plan for the Palestinians and Gaza almost a year ago:

Jared Kushner says Gaza's 'waterfront property could be very valuable'


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

What the Trumps have in mind:

Trump going with the Trail of Tears foreign policy plan for 1.8 million Palestinians and Gaza.
What could possibly go wrong?
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Anarchistbear
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5:24p, 2/4/25
Bibi used to sleep at Kushner's house when he visited the US. Very close ties to the Pro Semite agenda
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6:35p, 2/4/25
Saudi Arabia says it won't establish ties with Israel without creation of Palestinian state | Reuters


https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-says-it-wont-establish-ties-with-israel-without-creation-2025-02-05/

"Saudi Arabia also rejects any attempts to displace the Palestinians from their land, the statement said, adding that its stance towards the Palestinians is unnegotiable."

Gee, I hope this doesn't mean the holding of the 2nd annual of this LIV golf tournament in Riyadh is in jeopardy:



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Cal88
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 6:38p, 2/4/25
Blinken's stepfather was a close friend and counsel for Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine's father, widely recognized as a major Israeli spy.



The Biden administration's point man in the Mideast was Amos Hochstein, an Israeli citizen and IDF officer. So it's not like things could get much worse in Palestine under Trump. The only difference might be that Trump is going to do his part of the genocide completely in the open and without any pretense.
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Anarchistbear
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6:49p, 2/4/25
US policy towards Israel is captive. Biden was no better. Trump assisted in a cease fire because of his own agenda. Biden/ Harris agenda was to facilitate the Israelis and "call" for a cease fire but never use the only leverage they had. - Harris was so dumb she thought campaigning with Liz Cheney in Michigan was a positive
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bearister
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In reply to Cal88 • 6:59p, 2/4/25
…..and this 6'4 240 lbs Waffen SS commando was a hit man for the Mossad after WWII:



*Do the work to get his name
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