OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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IMO, there's hate behind calling it the Chinese virus versus the Wuhan virus which is different because the latter refers to the specific point of origination. In general, I don't place blame on the Chinese people but I blame their government.

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How about if it identifies a geographical area of origin and has no intent of malice to Chinese people anywhere. Just a fact. I just tire so much of the PC crap. When I think of it as a China originated, or actually Wuhan originated virus, it has zero to do with the PC police are trying to protect. Geographical distinctions have been used for years to give nomenclature to events. Chill PC police. Chill. And actually it is so unimportant that I actually prefer to refer to it as COVID 19 or the coronavirus, but when panties get in a wad over PC stuff it must be righted.

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Let me bottom line this. Everybody calls this the coronavirus. Everybody has called it that for 2 months. It is the established name for the virus. When somebody then comes out and starts calling it the Chinese virus, there is a reason they are doing that. If tomorrow someone started calling facial tissues paper snot receptors instead of Kleenex, you'd wonder why they are doing that. Yes, Geographical distinctions have been used for years, but they weren't used in this case. If it had been called the Wuhan Flu from the beginning and that was the established nomenclature, no one would think about it. If you don't think there is a political reason to refer to a virus that has been clearly established as "Coronavirus" or "Covid-19" by a geographical name at this point you are being naive.

That has nothing to do with whether you think of it as originated in China. We all know that.

And, by the way, there were Asians attacked in various cities in the US early on because of stupid people blaming them for the coronavirus.

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Professor Harold Hill said:

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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IMO, there's hate behind calling it the Chinese virus versus the Wuhan virus which is different because the latter refers to the specific point of origination. In general, I don't place blame on the Chinese people but I blame their government.

---

How about if it identifies a geographical area of origin and has no intent of malice to Chinese people anywhere. Just a fact. I just tire so much of the PC crap. When I think of it as a China originated, or actually Wuhan originated virus, it has zero to do with the PC police are trying to protect. Geographical distinctions have been used for years to give nomenclature to events. Chill PC police. Chill. And actually it is so unimportant that I actually prefer to refer to it as COVID 19 or the coronavirus, but when panties get in a wad over PC stuff it must be righted.

---

Let me bottom line this. Everybody calls this the coronavirus. Everybody has called it that for 2 months. It is the established name for the virus. When somebody then comes out and starts calling it the Chinese virus, there is a reason they are doing that. If tomorrow someone started calling facial tissues paper snot receptors instead of Kleenex, you'd wonder why they are doing that. Yes, Geographical distinctions have been used for years, but they weren't used in this case. If it had been called the Wuhan Flu from the beginning and that was the established nomenclature, no one would think about it. If you don't think there is a political reason to refer to a virus that has been clearly established as "Coronavirus" or "Covid-19" by a geographical name at this point you are being naive.

That has nothing to do with whether you think of it as originated in China. We all know that.

And, by the way, there were Asians attacked in various cities in the US early on because of stupid people blaming them for the coronavirus.

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Coronavirus is a dumb name though given that their are multiple kinds of coronaviruses.

I prefer a more relateable name, like Kim Kardashian Virus. Something that infected us long ago and refuses to go away.

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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And calling a place like Wuhan or China a sh*thole doesn't mean we think everybody from there or living there is a sh*thole or otherwise inferior human.

And calling a specific culture a sh*t culture does not mean we think everybody part of that culture engages in said cultural attitudes and behaviors.

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Sorta sounds like the southern segregationist mantra of there's Black people and there's N-words.

If you don't see a problem with calling a whole culture a sh*t culture, you are the sh*t. It doesn't matter if you think everybody in that culture is sh*t.

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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IMO, there's hate behind calling it the Chinese virus versus the Wuhan virus which is different because the latter refers to the specific point of origination. In general, I don't place blame on the Chinese people but I blame their government.

---

How about if it identifies a geographical area of origin and has no intent of malice to Chinese people anywhere. Just a fact. I just tire so much of the PC crap. When I think of it as a China originated, or actually Wuhan originated virus, it has zero to do with the PC police are trying to protect. Geographical distinctions have been used for years to give nomenclature to events. Chill PC police. Chill. And actually it is so unimportant that I actually prefer to refer to it as COVID 19 or the coronavirus, but when panties get in a wad over PC stuff it must be righted.

---

Let me bottom line this. Everybody calls this the coronavirus. Everybody has called it that for 2 months. It is the established name for the virus. When somebody then comes out and starts calling it the Chinese virus, there is a reason they are doing that. If tomorrow someone started calling facial tissues paper snot receptors instead of Kleenex, you'd wonder why they are doing that. Yes, Geographical distinctions have been used for years, but they weren't used in this case. If it had been called the Wuhan Flu from the beginning and that was the established nomenclature, no one would think about it. If you don't think there is a political reason to refer to a virus that has been clearly established as "Coronavirus" or "Covid-19" by a geographical name at this point you are being naive.

That has nothing to do with whether you think of it as originated in China. We all know that.

And, by the way, there were Asians attacked in various cities in the US early on because of stupid people blaming them for the coronavirus.

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Words in others mouths. I prefer use of COVID19 or coronavirus. My bent is not with Trump or whatever he is using China or Wuhan flu for. My problem is with PC talk and any implication by anyone calling it China flu or Wuhan flu as hating on Chinese people, people of color, people of China or whatever. Shutting down talk is absurd when no good reason.

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The issue was started and the complaints started not about people randomly referring to China and Wuhan. It was about Trump specifically calling it Chinese virus. Now we know he himself actively changed the wording written for him because as anyone with a brain could tell he was intentionally doing it to point at China. If your issue is not about response to Trump than you are fighting a straw man. And hanky's post was clearly a troll based on the Trump complaints.

And this is the point. Why is the president effing dividing us at this point? He knew full well what he was doing, who he was tweaking and who he was non-dog whistle dog whistling to. He had a neutral word, coronavirus in his notes and he deliberately chose the politically divisive term.

And, by the way, I didn't mention Trump in my post. The fact that you mentioned him in response indicates you know full well what the issue is and it isn't random people saying China flue or Wuhan flu. It is about our president deliberately calling it Chinese virus instead of coronavirus to get a reaction.

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hanky1 said:

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While people argue over what's racist in this country, China is openly blaming the US for the Chinese Virus and spreading propaganda throughout the world about it:

Coronavirus: Chinese official suggests U.S. Army to blame for outbreak
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/coronavirus-chinese-official-suggests-u-s-army-blame-outbreak-n1157826

Since so many liberals hate America they have sided with the Chinese. Sadly only Trump is defending us and fighting back against Chinese propaganda.

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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IMO, there's hate behind calling it the Chinese virus versus the Wuhan virus which is different because the latter refers to the specific point of origination. In general, I don't place blame on the Chinese people but I blame their government.

---

How about if it identifies a geographical area of origin and has no intent of malice to Chinese people anywhere. Just a fact. I just tire so much of the PC crap. When I think of it as a China originated, or actually Wuhan originated virus, it has zero to do with the PC police are trying to protect. Geographical distinctions have been used for years to give nomenclature to events. Chill PC police. Chill. And actually it is so unimportant that I actually prefer to refer to it as COVID 19 or the coronavirus, but when panties get in a wad over PC stuff it must be righted.

---

Let me bottom line this. Everybody calls this the coronavirus. Everybody has called it that for 2 months. It is the established name for the virus. When somebody then comes out and starts calling it the Chinese virus, there is a reason they are doing that. If tomorrow someone started calling facial tissues paper snot receptors instead of Kleenex, you'd wonder why they are doing that. Yes, Geographical distinctions have been used for years, but they weren't used in this case. If it had been called the Wuhan Flu from the beginning and that was the established nomenclature, no one would think about it. If you don't think there is a political reason to refer to a virus that has been clearly established as "Coronavirus" or "Covid-19" by a geographical name at this point you are being naive.

That has nothing to do with whether you think of it as originated in China. We all know that.

And, by the way, there were Asians attacked in various cities in the US early on because of stupid people blaming them for the coronavirus.

---

Words in others mouths. I prefer use of COVID19 or coronavirus. My bent is not with Trump or whatever he is using China or Wuhan flu for. My problem is with PC talk and any implication by anyone calling it China flu or Wuhan flu as hating on Chinese people, people of color, people of China or whatever. Shutting down talk is absurd when no good reason.

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The issue was started and the complaints started not about people randomly referring to China and Wuhan. It was about Trump specifically calling it Chinese virus. Now we know he himself actively changed the wording written for him because as anyone with a brain could tell he was intentionally doing it to point at China. If your issue is not about response to Trump than you are fighting a straw man. And hanky's post was clearly a troll based on the Trump complaints.

And this is the point. Why is the president effing dividing us at this point? He knew full well what he was doing, who he was tweaking and who he was non-dog whistle dog whistling to. He had a neutral word, coronavirus in his notes and he deliberately chose the politically divisive term.

And, by the way, I didn't mention Trump in my post. The fact that you mentioned him in response indicates you know full well what the issue is and it isn't random people saying China flue or Wuhan flu. It is about our president deliberately calling it Chinese virus instead of coronavirus to get a reaction.

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You cannot separate any issues from your hate of Trump. That is fine, but it is very difficult to have any discussion about issues when you link them. I am not fan of Trump at all. Were I invited to be in his company I would decline. I find his language and behavior reprehensible. I don't know how more clearly I can say it. And yes I know why he calls it the China or Wuhan flu. To stick it to the Chinese. That is not even close to what I am talking about and you are responding to. Your insistence on linking all things with your hatred of Trump is tiring.

I do not like regulating language due to PC concepts. I do not ever to my knowledge choose to use language to harm others. I was making a differentiation between calling this flu the China or Wuhan flu as to being neutral. Were it to use deragatory terminology toward the Chinese people or Chinese individuals I would be the first to condemn it.

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I don't talk about Trump as much as most here. This thread was clearly about Trump's briefing and the aftermath. Which you knew because you brought him up, not me oh obsessed one. He's the one that called it the Chinese virus. If you missed that, fine, but that isn't my issue.

You and other conservatives on this board are obsessed with turning every criticism of Trump into a derangement because then you can justify your complete failure to do the right thing while you claim with every single criticism that "boy I don't like Trump but this criticism is unfair".

This is one thing that liberals and moderates don't do that some weird segment of the conservatives do. This total bullshyte, synonym for cat refusal to own up to their own beliefs. You are either feigning complete navet or you are so naive I don't know how you could possibly exist.

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GBear4Life said:

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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And calling a place like Wuhan or China a sh*thole doesn't mean we think everybody from there or living there is a sh*thole or otherwise inferior human.

And calling a specific culture a sh*t culture does not mean we think everybody part of that culture engages in said cultural attitudes and behaviors.

---

Sorta sounds like the southern segregationist mantra of there's Black people and there's N-words.

If you don't see a problem with calling a whole culture a sh*t culture, you are the sh*t. It doesn't matter if you think everybody in that culture is sh*t.

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You're in denial. Have you traveled the world? Have you traveled America? Is the culture in Saudi Arabia just fine? There are sh*t cultures everywhere.

Do you like Mexico? Would you live there? Why not? Cultures aren't the same. They produce different attitudes, values and behaviors and different outcomes.

Segregationists viewed other humans were something less than human on the basis of their skin color -- and immutable characteristic. So, uh, your post was stupid.

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UrsaMajor said:

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GBear4Life said:

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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And calling a place like Wuhan or China a sh*thole doesn't mean we think everybody from there or living there is a sh*thole or otherwise inferior human.

And calling a specific culture a sh*t culture does not mean we think everybody part of that culture engages in said cultural attitudes and behaviors.

---

Sorta sounds like the southern segregationist mantra of there's Black people and there's N-words.

If you don't see a problem with calling a whole culture a sh*t culture, you are the sh*t. It doesn't matter if you think everybody in that culture is sh*t.

---

You're in denial. Have you traveled the world? Have you traveled America? Is the culture in Saudi Arabia just fine? There are sh*t cultures everywhere.

Do you like Mexico? Would you live there? Why not? Cultures aren't the same. They produce different attitudes, values and behaviors and different outcomes.

Segregationists viewed other humans were something less than human on the basis of their skin color -- and immutable characteristic. So, uh, your post was stupid.

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I suspect I have traveled more than most here (I have averaged 7-8 trips out of the country/year for the past 20 years at least), and I don't find ANY cultures "sh*t." Are there countries that have terrible human rights records or other aspects we deplore? Of course, but that's distinct from the culture. I am quite fond of Mexican culture--food, music, literature, etc. As it happens, there are places in Mexico I would certainly live, but that's besides the point. AS for Saudi Arabia, Arabic culture is old, learned, and highly sophisticated. The regime under the influence of Wahabbism is another matter. I have spent time in Iran and can say that in my opinion, Persian culture is one to be admired and even emulated. Again, that is distinct from the current regime (which is opposed by a majority of Iranians, btw) which is oppressive and brutal.

And when it comes to China, their *culture* is far older and in many ways more interesting than European. Are there peculiarities that we abhor? Of course. But then America is a sh*t culture because of our violence and the corruption of so many in government.

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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And calling a place like Wuhan or China a sh*thole doesn't mean we think everybody from there or living there is a sh*thole or otherwise inferior human.

And calling a specific culture a sh*t culture does not mean we think everybody part of that culture engages in said cultural attitudes and behaviors.

---

Sorta sounds like the southern segregationist mantra of there's Black people and there's N-words.

If you don't see a problem with calling a whole culture a sh*t culture, you are the sh*t. It doesn't matter if you think everybody in that culture is sh*t.

---

You're in denial. Have you traveled the world? Have you traveled America? Is the culture in Saudi Arabia just fine? There are sh*t cultures everywhere.

Do you like Mexico? Would you live there? Why not? Cultures aren't the same. They produce different attitudes, values and behaviors and different outcomes.

Segregationists viewed other humans were something less than human on the basis of their skin color -- and immutable characteristic. So, uh, your post was stupid.

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You apparently don't know what the word "culture" means.

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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And calling a place like Wuhan or China a sh*thole doesn't mean we think everybody from there or living there is a sh*thole or otherwise inferior human.

And calling a specific culture a sh*t culture does not mean we think everybody part of that culture engages in said cultural attitudes and behaviors.

---

Sorta sounds like the southern segregationist mantra of there's Black people and there's N-words.

If you don't see a problem with calling a whole culture a sh*t culture, you are the sh*t. It doesn't matter if you think everybody in that culture is sh*t.

---

You're in denial. Have you traveled the world? Have you traveled America? Is the culture in Saudi Arabia just fine? There are sh*t cultures everywhere.

Do you like Mexico? Would you live there? Why not? Cultures aren't the same. They produce different attitudes, values and behaviors and different outcomes.

Segregationists viewed other humans were something less than human on the basis of their skin color -- and immutable characteristic. So, uh, your post was stupid.

---

You apparently don't know what the word "culture" means.

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Quote:

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: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social groupalso : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or timepopular cultureSouthern culture
b: the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organizationa corporate culture focused on the bottom line
c: the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristicstudying the effect of computers on print cultureChanging the culture of materialism will take time Peggy O'Mara
d: the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations

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tequila4kapp said:

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It seems pretty obvious to me the use of the term isn't racist or deflecting, it's a way of poking China for its propaganda efforts at rebranding the CCP. China says the US military is to blame while it hands out "free" medical supplies in Africa...Trump directs attention back at China by calling the virus a particular name.

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Big C said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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It seems pretty obvious to me the use of the term isn't racist or deflecting, it's a way of poking China for its propaganda efforts at rebranding the CCP. China says the US military is to blame while it hands out "free" medical supplies in Africa...Trump directs attention back at China by calling the virus a particular name.

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In terms of international relations, I don't think it does any good to "poke" other countries like this. There are plenty of other ways to deal with the bad things the Chinese government might be doing. All this does is continue a cycle of useless retaliation, as well as being taken the wrong way by Americans of Chinese ethnicity. Despite the problems I might've had with Cold Warriors such as Nixon and Kissinger, at least they didn't reduce their rhetoric to childish name calling.

Hanky1 doing this? Of borderline taste, but can also be funny, if you get where he's coming from.

Trump doing it: Just an embarrassment

Conclusion: If Hanky1 ever becomes President, he'd better clean up his act!

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Big C said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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It seems pretty obvious to me the use of the term isn't racist or deflecting, it's a way of poking China for its propaganda efforts at rebranding the CCP. China says the US military is to blame while it hands out "free" medical supplies in Africa...Trump directs attention back at China by calling the virus a particular name.

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In terms of international relations, I don't think it does any good to "poke" other countries like this. There are plenty of other ways to deal with the bad things the Chinese government might be doing. All this does is continue a cycle of useless retaliation, as well as being taken the wrong way by Americans of Chinese ethnicity. Despite the problems I might've had with Cold Warriors such as Nixon and Kissinger, at least they didn't reduce their rhetoric to childish name calling.

Hanky1 doing this? Of borderline taste, but can also be funny, if you get where he's coming from.

Trump doing it: Just an embarrassment

Conclusion: If Hanky1 ever becomes President, he'd better clean up his act!

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hanky1 said:

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Big C said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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It seems pretty obvious to me the use of the term isn't racist or deflecting, it's a way of poking China for its propaganda efforts at rebranding the CCP. China says the US military is to blame while it hands out "free" medical supplies in Africa...Trump directs attention back at China by calling the virus a particular name.

---

In terms of international relations, I don't think it does any good to "poke" other countries like this. There are plenty of other ways to deal with the bad things the Chinese government might be doing. All this does is continue a cycle of useless retaliation, as well as being taken the wrong way by Americans of Chinese ethnicity. Despite the problems I might've had with Cold Warriors such as Nixon and Kissinger, at least they didn't reduce their rhetoric to childish name calling.

Hanky1 doing this? Of borderline taste, but can also be funny, if you get where he's coming from.

Trump doing it: Just an embarrassment

Conclusion: If Hanky1 ever becomes President, he'd better clean up his act!

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I'm glad I can entertain you

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hanky1 said:

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Big C said:

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Hanky1 doing this? Of borderline taste, but can also be funny..

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I'm glad I can entertain you

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OaktownBear said:

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I'm not deflecting. I have a degree in anthropology. You aren't using the term right. Beyond that, in referring to sh*t cultures I find you ignorant and abhorrent and not worth talking to. You personally disgust me. Race and immutable characteristics are not the only forms of prejudice. If you want to feel that is me surrendering fine. My personal opinion is if you wrestle a pig, you get covered in muck. Someone with your views is so far away from what I feel is appropriate there is no point in trying. If my attitude gives you internal justification to vote for Trump, which you are going to do anyway, whatever floats your boat.

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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Oak is deflecting.

Saying you don't know what a word means is a white flag.

Only somebody with an agenda would try and deflect or obfuscate an issue by challenging a well known meaning.

Quote:

---

: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social groupalso : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or timepopular cultureSouthern culture
b: the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organizationa corporate culture focused on the bottom line
c: the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristicstudying the effect of computers on print cultureChanging the culture of materialism will take time Peggy O'Mara
d: the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations

---

---

I'm not deflecting. I have a degree in anthropology. You aren't using the term right. Beyond that, in referring to sh*t cultures I find you ignorant and abhorrent and not worth talking to. You personally disgust me. Race and immutable characteristics are not the only forms of prejudice. If you want to feel that is me surrendering fine. My personal opinion is if you wrestle a pig, you get covered in muck. Someone with your views is so far away from what I feel is appropriate there is no point in trying. If my attitude gives you internal justification to vote for Trump, which you are going to do anyway, whatever floats your boat.

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OaktownBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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Oak is deflecting.

Saying you don't know what a word means is a white flag.

Only somebody with an agenda would try and deflect or obfuscate an issue by challenging a well known meaning.

Quote:

---

: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social groupalso : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or timepopular cultureSouthern culture
b: the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organizationa corporate culture focused on the bottom line
c: the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristicstudying the effect of computers on print cultureChanging the culture of materialism will take time Peggy O'Mara
d: the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations

---

---

I'm not deflecting. I have a degree in anthropology. You aren't using the term right. Beyond that, in referring to sh*t cultures I find you ignorant and abhorrent and not worth talking to. You personally disgust me. Race and immutable characteristics are not the only forms of prejudice. If you want to feel that is me surrendering fine. My personal opinion is if you wrestle a pig, you get covered in muck. Someone with your views is so far away from what I feel is appropriate there is no point in trying. If my attitude gives you internal justification to vote for Trump, which you are going to do anyway, whatever floats your boat.

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Wow. What a Trumpistic response. Just like a characterization I heard earlier today of Mr Alexander. I think you're going over the deep end here a bit Oak. Maxing out on attacks of those with views opposing. Unless this is the standard for "appropriate".

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So just to be clear. You are defending someone who refers to other cultures as sh*t cultures and then doubles down on it by arguing it is an objective fact? That is the guy you want to be in this argument? I'm clarifying because I have a modicum of respect for you to think this post is colored more by us getting into it yesterday and it is behavior you would not normally defend nor would you attack someone for pointing out the abhorrence of characterizing other cultures as sh*t cultures.

I mean it. I am hoping that is not what you intend to do and I'm giving you the opportunity to clarify, and I'm hoping you will say, "Well, Oak, I'm still ticked off about yesterday, but you are right, calling other cultures sh*t cultures is ignorant behavior"

I'm perfectly comfortable saying that classifying other cultures as sh*t cultures is inappropriate behavior. If you want to criticize me for that, I take your arrows with pride.

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