If I'm Toronto, I want to hurt myself ... how could you lose that game?

The Warriors had 34 assists on 38 baskets ...incredible. Kerr's a genius.

I've coached a long time, and I've only had a couple of teams that fit into this category: Their best skill was winning. Some teams can shoot, some can defend, some can rebound, but some did whatever it took to win on that particular night.

The Warriors are an amazing example of one of those kinds of teams.

The win in Toronto allows them to hold out KD one more game, I think, unless both Looney and Thompson are out. Then maybe you roll the dice with KD, assuming you have Looney and Thompson back Friday.

Or you rest all three and figure that somehow, some way, Alonso McKinnie, Quinn Cook and Jonas Jerebko will find a way to win on Wednesday.

FYI, Candlestick opened in 1960 and was in use until 2014 when the 9ers moved to Levi.

IF, and that's a big if, Klay and KD can return in game 4, I think you keep both out of game 3, and basically concede game 3 to the Raptors.

Looney is out for the rest of the series, and you just don't want to bring those two back too early.

Not that game 4 gives them that much more time, but I just can't see Klay coming back after only 2-1/2 days rest with a pulled hamstring

right now, I think Raptors are favored... just too many hobbled players (even if they are on the court) to overcome, and Klay is basically essential

You mean game 3?
You would accept a loss in game 3 to rest Klay and KD for game 4?

I don't have any idea how far along KD is, but I agree - I can't see how Klay could return after seeing him hobble. He looked done for weeks.

Yes, Looney has been officially ruled out for the series/season.

Maybe it WILL have to be Cousins! Steph and Cousins, like Magic and Kareem. Ha!

War of attrition.

Sorry, edited my post above to clarify. Yeah I meant keep both Klay and KD out for game 3, which I think is basically conceding it since looney is also out. Raptors will double steph all game long without either.

That assumes Ws get both back for game 4, but even that is unlikely. Klay, KD and Looney could be out the rest of the Finals

concordtom said:

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You mean game 3?
You would accept a loss in game 3 to rest Klay and KD for game 4?

I don't have any idea how far along KD is, but I agree - I can't see how Klay could return after seeing him hobble. He looked done for weeks.

Yes, Looney has been officially ruled out for the series/season.

Maybe it WILL have to be Cousins! Steph and Cousins, like Magic and Kareem. Ha!

War of attrition.

---

HoopDreams said:

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Sorry, edited my post above to clarify. Yeah I meant keep both Klay and KD out for game 3, which I think is basically conceding it since looney is also out. Raptors will double steph all game long without either.

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The Raptors were essentially using the Jordan Rules on Steph in the 4th quarter in game 2 -- and it worked; Steph didn't score in that 4th quarter.

It's especially effective the way this series is being officiated, because the Raptors realize that they can commit a lot of hard fouls that won't be called. I was amused that Lowry protested when he was called for his 6th foul, because he committed at least 6 other fouls that were not called.

Expect the Raptors to defend Steph the same way for all of game 3, and any other games in which Klay either doesn't play or isn't well enough to be effective.

The best counter to the Raptors' focus on Steph would be for Durant to be relatively healthy and play, but I would be surprised if KD can be a significant contributor at any point in this series. IMO, at most he'll make an "inspirational" cameo appearance like Willis Reed in game 7 of the 1970 finals.

IMO you don't give away games in the Finals. If Klay or whoever is cleared to play, they play.

The Box-and-1 defense was kind of sprung on the Warriors by surprise near the end of the game, but if the Raptors try to employ it for a whole game I suspect they will figure it out. They actually had the right idea when Draymond drove the ball down the lane and tried to drop it off to Boogie -- he just missed the pass. If Steph is being double and triple teamed, you should be able to get layups at the rim for the other guys, especially a skilled big man like Cousins.

sycasey said:

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IMO you don't give away games in the Finals. If Klay or whoever is cleared to play, they play.

The Box-and-1 defense was kind of sprung on the Warriors by surprise near the end of the game, but if the Raptors try to employ it for a whole game I suspect they will figure it out. They actually had the right idea when Draymond drove the ball down the lane and tried to drop it off to Boogie -- he just missed the pass. If Steph is being double and triple teamed, you should be able to get layups at the rim for the other guys, especially a skilled big man like Cousins.

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Agreed. They hadn't ever seen the box and 1 and certainly didn't prepare for it. Kerr will have some adjustments ready when Toronto tries it again.

The analogy is early in the season when defenses sagged off of Draymond and he couldn't hit anything from 3. One adjustment: put Green in pick and roll.

sycasey said:

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IMO you don't give away games in the Finals. If Klay or whoever is cleared to play, they play.

The Box-and-1 defense was kind of sprung on the Warriors by surprise near the end of the game, but if the Raptors try to employ it for a whole game I suspect they will figure it out. They actually had the right idea when Draymond drove the ball down the lane and tried to drop it off to Boogie -- he just missed the pass. If Steph is being double and triple teamed, you should be able to get layups at the rim for the other guys, especially a skilled big man like Cousins.

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Yep, box-and-1 is a fairly simple defense to break if you have time to prepare for it.

I doubt you really see any box and 1 in game 3. Though, I wouldn't rule out seeing some sort of other exotic type of defense from the Raptors that may try to catch the Dubs off guard again.

HoopDreams said:

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right now, I think Raptors are favored... just too many hobbled players (even if they are on the court) to overcome, and Klay is basically essential

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Eh. I will concede that this has the potential to be one of the more inaccurate Vegas lines just cause of the injury uncertainty.

But the Dubs are -5.5 for Game 3 and -300 for the series.

If you think the Raptors should be favored, you are getting incredible value right now. You should jump on it.

I think Ws will lose without Klay. People are just thinking of offense

Ws still have to contend with KL and Klay is Ws best perimeter defender

Also remember that Looney is out and Iggy playing on one leg

But I'm not a big NBA guy so what do I know

Shaquille O'Neal's advice: Recruit Klay Thompson to be 'highest-paid Laker in history'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2019/06/04/shaquille-oneal-recruit-klay-thompson-highest-paid-laker/1339897001/

Not gonna happen.
I'd give odds. Healthy odds.

Lacob is gonna offer Klay the max on Day1.
You know it, and I know it - to quote the idiot we both hate.

The Jump just announced that Kerr has said KD is officially OUT for Game3.

And they showed video of Klay shooting in Oracle at warriors practice.
Wow.
He's gonna play!

Nike Marketing gossip.

concordtom said:

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The Jump just announced that Kerr has said KD is officially OUT for Game3.

And they showed video of Klay shooting in Oracle at warriors practice.
Wow.
He's gonna play!

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Not sure why Kerr would announce that today... what would be the point?

The real question is will he be able to start and stop suddenly?

philbert said:

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The real question is will he be able to start and stop suddenly?

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And sprint, and back peddle, and jump and land, and go up straight for a shot, and...

bearister said:

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Shaquille O'Neal's advice: Recruit Klay Thompson to be 'highest-paid Laker in history'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2019/06/04/shaquille-oneal-recruit-klay-thompson-highest-paid-laker/1339897001/

---

Well, Shaq's never been that bright.

GBear4Life said:

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bearister said:

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Shaquille O'Neal's advice: Recruit Klay Thompson to be 'highest-paid Laker in history'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2019/06/04/shaquille-oneal-recruit-klay-thompson-highest-paid-laker/1339897001/

---

Well, Shaq's never been that bright.

---

I love how in the article, in his hypothetical pitch to klay, Shaq says "they can't pay you what we can pay you."

Well Shaq, that's actually the exact opposite of how nba free agency works, but...you know

ducky23 said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

bearister said:

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Shaquille O'Neal's advice: Recruit Klay Thompson to be 'highest-paid Laker in history'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2019/06/04/shaquille-oneal-recruit-klay-thompson-highest-paid-laker/1339897001/

---

Well, Shaq's never been that bright.

---

I love how in the article, in his hypothetical pitch to klay, Shaq says "they can't pay you what we can pay you."

Well Shaq, that's actually the exact opposite of how nba free agency works, but...you know

---

Additionally, according to Forbes (2018), the Lakers and Warriors are #2 and #3 in the NBA having approximately the same worth ($3.3B and $3.1B respectively). While the Lakers have slightly higher revenue and operating income, that will change with the Warriors' move to the new arena (as will the team's net worth, as the arena is not on the books as an asset yet) where they will be one of only 6 teams who own their own arena, and the only one who completely financed it on their own. That will substantially add to the team's net worth.

This is sort of amazing and would have been unthinkable just ten years ago, but there's a good chance that next year the Warriors will be the Leagues most valuable franchise.

So, further to your point, Shaq, times have changed. Boy have they changed.

(and I like Shaq)

Goodbye, Oracle: Longtime Arena workers reflect on Oakland's final Warriors farewell

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/04/goodbye-oracle-longtime-arena-workers-reflect-on-oaklands-final-warriors-farewell/amp/

bearister said:

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Goodbye, Oracle: Longtime Arena workers reflect on Oakland's final Warriors farewell

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/04/goodbye-oracle-longtime-arena-workers-reflect-on-oaklands-final-warriors-farewell/amp/

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My brother invited me to go to Monday's "watch party" at Oracle for the game5 in Toronto. He has 4 tix.
What do you think?

HoopDreams said:

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Sorry, edited my post above to clarify. Yeah I meant keep both Klay and KD out for game 3, which I think is basically conceding it since looney is also out. Raptors will double steph all game long without either.

That assumes Ws get both back for game 4, but even that is unlikely. Klay, KD and Looney could be out the rest of the Finals

concordtom said:

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You mean game 3?
You would accept a loss in game 3 to rest Klay and KD for game 4?

I don't have any idea how far along KD is, but I agree - I can't see how Klay could return after seeing him hobble. He looked done for weeks.

Yes, Looney has been officially ruled out for the series/season.

Maybe it WILL have to be Cousins! Steph and Cousins, like Magic and Kareem. Ha!

War of attrition.

---

---

Sounds like Klay was a bit more downcast at the most recent mic session.
That would indicate to me he's not gonna play.
That means tonight could be a shut-it-down-early contest for Steph and Iggy and Cousins and Draymond, while we watch
Bogut, McKinnie, Cook, Jerebko, Bell and who's that backup center who came back from injury recently?

Could get ugly fast.
Why run Curry around endlessly?
Rest everyone and come out on fire Friday.

concordtom said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Sorry, edited my post above to clarify. Yeah I meant keep both Klay and KD out for game 3, which I think is basically conceding it since looney is also out. Raptors will double steph all game long without either.

That assumes Ws get both back for game 4, but even that is unlikely. Klay, KD and Looney could be out the rest of the Finals

concordtom said:

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You mean game 3?
You would accept a loss in game 3 to rest Klay and KD for game 4?

I don't have any idea how far along KD is, but I agree - I can't see how Klay could return after seeing him hobble. He looked done for weeks.

Yes, Looney has been officially ruled out for the series/season.

Maybe it WILL have to be Cousins! Steph and Cousins, like Magic and Kareem. Ha!

War of attrition.

---

---

Sounds like Klay was a bit more downcast at the most recent mic session.
That would indicate to me he's not gonna play.
That means tonight could be a shut-it-down-early contest for Steph and Iggy and Cousins and Draymond, while we watch
Bogut, McKinnie, Cook, Jerebko, Bell and who's that backup center who came back from injury recently?

Could get ugly fast.
Why run Curry around endlessly?
Rest everyone and come out on fire Friday.

---

If klay doesn't play, it obviously shouldn't be dubs -4.5, but it's not like the warriors would be huge underdogs either. It would probably be something like raptors -2. That's basically a coin flip game.

People forget that Steph, boogie and draymond are still all all-stars (well boogie is hurt so that doesn't help, but he at least outplayed gasol last game)

Yes you'd love to have a little more shooting on the floor, but it's not like the raptors are all that scary. Lowry is playing like playoff Lowry. Green can't make a shot. And Kawhi is playing hurt. Plus it's at Oracle.

I would never count out the warriors.

If the Warriors win without Klay and KD and curry has 30 points, that should put him in the pantheon.
It would be like Magic's rookie season at center with no Kareem game.

I'm not counting the Warriors out, but they were double digits down in game 2.
They could have lost game2 easily and been down 0-2 vs these "not scary" raptors.

Maybe it'll be a Cousins Curry game for the ages, with Dray and Iggy stirring the drink.
Ha. I dunno. Let's tip it up !!!

Remember that role players tend to do better at home, so the chances of some rando going off are now higher for the Warriors. Maybe Cook or Jerebko or McKinnie gets hot and makes up for the injured guys. You just don't know. Toronto basically got that in Game 1.

I tend to agree that games at Oracle are a toss-up for the injured Warriors, given home court making up for some of it. This is actually fun. I have no idea what to expect.

sycasey said:

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This is actually fun. I have no idea what to expect.

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And to hell with all those folks who said the title was automatic once GS signed KD, and then Cousins.

concordtom said:

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bearister said:

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Goodbye, Oracle: Longtime Arena workers reflect on Oakland's final Warriors farewell

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/04/goodbye-oracle-longtime-arena-workers-reflect-on-oaklands-final-warriors-farewell/amp/

---

My brother invited me to go to Monday's "watch party" at Oracle for the game5 in Toronto. He has 4 tix.
What do you think?

---

go by all means. Have fun and report back your insights

concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

---

This is actually fun. I have no idea what to expect.

---

And to hell with all those folks who said the title was automatic once GS signed KD, and then Cousins.

---

Injuries can change a lot.

The interesting thing about tonight's game is that (whether the raptors realize it or not) it's basically a must win game for the raptors.

Right now the dubs are -270 (which is about 73%).

If they go up 2-1 with KD most likely coming back for game 4, then it's at least 90% probability (probably higher).

I know most people will probably disagree it's a must win game for the raptors, but Vegas numbers don't lie.

One thing super helpful if the dubs are short handed is that the raptors don't have anyone who can attack defensive liabilities.

Guys like bogut, cook, etc were basically unplayable for long stretches against a team like Houston cause Houston iso's on every possession and will always hunt the weakest link.

Raptors don't really play like that. And so far, I haven't seen the bench guys being huge defensive liabilities. So as long as a guy like cook isn't getting abused on defense, he's actually a really nice role player cause he's one of the few guys who can make an open shot.

ducky23 said:

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GBear4Life said:

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Well, Shaq's never been that bright.

---

I love how in the article, in his hypothetical pitch to klay, Shaq says "they can't pay you what we can pay you."

Well Shaq, that's actually the exact opposite of how nba free agency works, but...you know

---

His pitch seems to center around Klay being the highest paid Laker in history (out pacing Lebron's 4 yr contract by pennies), even though, as you noted, GS can and will offer him the maximum in both years and annual salary, and that somehow being the highest paid Laker (for a short period of time) is enticing to anybody who isn't stupid.

Klay's not going anywhere. We know this because he has been rather upfront about this.

What makes no sense is the media/pundit speculation on where other FAs are going. These players aren't disclosing where they're leaning to anybody who would "leak" this stuff. The media uses innuendo and comments from the locker room laundry boy to assert having insight into the FA intentions of players because it fuels their business.

Durant to NYK is great for Media, stars changing teams is great for media. It creates more foundation for stories eerrrrrr clicks for years to come. I wish they would just be honest and say "a source of mine has a hunch that so and so is going [..] and that makes sense to me." But it's always "a source of close to the situation says Durant to NYK is virtually a done deal" lmao these players don't broadcast their intentions.

GBear4Life said:

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What makes no sense is the media/pundit speculation on where other FAs are going. These players aren't disclosing where they're leaning to anybody who would "leak" this stuff. The media uses innuendo and comments from the locker room laundry boy to assert having insight into the FA intentions of players because it fuels their business.

Durant to NYK is great for Media, stars changing teams is great for media. It creates more foundation for stories eerrrrrr clicks for years to come. I wish they would just be honest and say "a source of mine has a hunch that so and so is going [..] and that makes sense to me." But it's always "a source of close to the situation says Durant to NYK is virtually a done deal" lmao these players don't broadcast their intentions.

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It makes sense only because the sports pundits want to fake the credibility of being an alleged insider, in the hope of keeping us from focusing on the fact that they're just spouting takes that have no more validity than yours or mine or anyone else's.