TheFiatLux said:

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concordtom said:

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concordtom said:

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Kawhi travelled on that dunk and-1.
That's a sign of his injury, couldn't just rise up.

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The third angle shows it best, and look at Kerr immediately signal for traveling.

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Come on, that was only four steps.

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Jay Williams ran a segment showing how Kawhi is hurt. Multiple clips showing his favoring one leg.
In several clips, he was jumping to the hoops off his left leg, but couldn't explode and so had to seek a foul, or stretch to a scoop layup rather than a dunk over the top. He suggested "drop foot" where you can't pick up the toe. He showed how he had to jump off both feet to rise up.

After seeing the compilation, it was very clear.

I realize Kawhi will get a max contract with whomever he signs, but this makes two years in a row with bad legs, and you just wonder. If he was an NFL running back, he'd be done based on that alone. Those guys take hits and are done early in their career.

I'm calling Kawhi's past his peak.

bearister said:

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GMP said:

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In some of the least shocking news of my entire life, the Warriors part owner who shoved and yelled at Kyle Lowry last night is an alumnus of and trustee for... USC. OBVIOUSLY.

https://news.usc.edu/trojan-family/mark-stevens-usc-trojan-success-story/

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...and since we are talking all things fines:

"The most fined owner is Mark Cuban, for 20 fines totaling $2,240,000; alone this is about 10% of all fines since 2000. Cuban is not only the most fined owner, he is the most fined individual person in NBA history, in terms of both total number of fines and total amount fined. His largest fine to date, $600,000 was for saying that the Dallas Mavericks should tank for the rest of the 2017-18 season. Cuban says every time he gets fined, he matches that amount and donates it to a charity of his choice."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_fines

Yes, Mark Stevens did a very bad thing for which he is being justifiably punished. He has also done good things in his life:

"A philanthropist, Stevens has signed the Giving Pledge, created by billionaires Bill Gates and Warren Buffett to get America's wealthiest individuals to give away more than half of their wealth to charity. S-Cubed Capital also manages the family's philanthropy, with focus areas in education, environment and research universities." Forbes

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Boy, it must be nice to be rich!

I tell ya what.
Rather than just giving to charities, how about if these rich guys go after their wealthy counterparts who want to forever lower tax rates, environmental regulations, and otherwise favor laws that have been dramatically increasing the wealth gap.

I don't want to end up like some countries in Latin America where 99% of the wealth is in 1% of the population and everyone has bars on their windows to keep the thieves out. We are headed that way.

GMP said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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I wonder when and how the warriors are going to retool with youth.
The core is getting older and more expensive. We see now that the team suffers from quality depth.
It's crazy to be having these thoughts when many have said this is the greatest roster ever assembled.

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If KD leaves there will be more resources freed up to spend on role players (I also assume Livingston will be done after this year), so there will be a chance to add depth around the remaining core, assuming they also stay.

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Is that right? The team can of course go over the cap to re-sign its own players. But they are so far over the cap that I don't think KD and Livingston leaving get them under.

Anyways, I don't agree with Tom that this is the last time they're in the Finals if KD leaves. They'd still be the best team in the West.

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The warriors core of curry, Klay, dray is only getting older, all past their athletic prime.
They hope to keep looney, and I think those four guys will be at the salary cap, if not over it.
Iggy is still under contract, but not a major force any longer. All those five guys are fabulous talents. But new youthful talents are always on the rise.
Meanwhile, there will be new combinations after this summer's free agency.

Klay and curry can age into long distance shooters for many years, but they need some new youthful talent to take the pressure off them in the years ahead. Like, imagine an energy like Ja Morant handling the ball and allowing Curry to be a SG along with Klay.

It would be great, as a fan, to see them win tonight, and great to see the team keep Durant. If they do neither, I think we've seen the peak of the warriors - from a basketball standpoint with this awesome generational core.

Pretty much win or die tonight ...

I think if KD can play, he will, because it's a win-win situation. If he comes back and they win, he's the hero; if he comes back and they lose, he gave it his all for his team.

But I'm not sure he can come back. I've had that injury (over the years, I've had most of them) and the thing is, even after it doesn't hurt, it takes a couple weeks to really heal enough so you can sprint. (The first time you sprint and it's not ready, you pull it again.) He's still having pain, so from my experience, he's actually still two or three weeks away -- but then again, the trainers might be a little better in the NBA.

As for the Warriors down the road, obviously they will fade, even if KD and Cousins stay. Every study shows the peak year for athletes is age 27, and it's a decline after that (of course there are exceptions), and Curry, Thompson and Green are all on the wrong side of 27.

It will be interesting to see attendance at the Chase Center when the Warriors' goal is just to reach the playoffs rather than win a title.

Clay,
KD has already been ruled out for game 4.
It's not looking good.

ClayK said:

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It will be interesting to see attendance at the Chase Center when the Warriors' goal is just to reach the playoffs rather than win a title.

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I think they will do more than fine.
It's pretty incredible to watch the development from south of market all the way to Potrero Hill happen since the 80's. It was all warehouse no man's land.

ClayK said:

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As for the Warriors down the road, obviously they will fade, even if KD and Cousins stay. Every study shows the peak year for athletes is age 27, and it's a decline after that (of course there are exceptions), and Curry, Thompson and Green are all on the wrong side of 27.

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That's what I'm saying.
Injuries are subtractions on the body. Only subtractions.

How much longer can Curry and Klay run around endlessly?
It was easy for Kareem to play until 40-whatever because he'd just jog down and setup shop in the post, do a skyhook. But for the highly active guys, new youth overtakes.
Down the road, Curry and Klay need to be like Ray Allen, spot up shooters.
They can do that if KD stays! Sign him!
...I guess it just hurt me watching Curry run himself ragged last game. Like, I think that's everything he had to give, dealing with double teams everywhere all night? It was pretty incredible. And why would not every team do that to him every game this next season? (Would have in the past after Lebron hounded him to the title years ago, but they went and added KD to take the pressure off.) I don't see it working as in 2015, though we had a nice run in beating Houston and Portland. Can we beat Toronto without KD? Massive challenge. Go warriors!

Cousins has been nice to have, but I don't see him staying.

GMP said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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I wonder when and how the warriors are going to retool with youth.
The core is getting older and more expensive. We see now that the team suffers from quality depth.
It's crazy to be having these thoughts when many have said this is the greatest roster ever assembled.

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If KD leaves there will be more resources freed up to spend on role players (I also assume Livingston will be done after this year), so there will be a chance to add depth around the remaining core, assuming they also stay.

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Is that right? The team can of course go over the cap to re-sign its own players. But they are so far over the cap that I don't think KD and Livingston leaving get them under.

Anyways, I don't agree with Tom that this is the last time they're in the Finals if KD leaves. They'd still be the best team in the West.

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I haven't looked deeply into it, so you could be right. I'm just assuming that big contracts coming off the books means more space freed up, but the NBA cap is complicated.

concordtom said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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concordtom said:

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concordtom said:

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Kawhi travelled on that dunk and-1.
That's a sign of his injury, couldn't just rise up.

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The third angle shows it best, and look at Kerr immediately signal for traveling.

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Come on, that was only four steps.

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Jay Williams ran a segment showing how Kawhi is hurt. Multiple clips showing his favoring one leg.
In several clips, he was jumping to the hoops off his left leg, but couldn't explode and so had to seek a foul, or stretch to a scoop layup rather than a dunk over the top. He suggested "drop foot" where you can't pick up the toe. He showed how he had to jump off both feet to rise up.

After seeing the compilation, it was very clear.

I realize Kawhi will get a max contract with whomever he signs, but this makes two years in a row with bad legs, and you just wonder. If he was an NFL running back, he'd be done based on that alone. Those guys take hits and are done early in their career.

I'm calling Kawhi's past his peak.

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What source do you have that indicates Leonard's injury is permanent or even the same injury he had last year? Isn't it possible he tweaked his leg against the Bucks? Despite this, he is still dominating the Warriors.

sycasey said:

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GMP said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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I wonder when and how the warriors are going to retool with youth.
The core is getting older and more expensive. We see now that the team suffers from quality depth.
It's crazy to be having these thoughts when many have said this is the greatest roster ever assembled.

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If KD leaves there will be more resources freed up to spend on role players (I also assume Livingston will be done after this year), so there will be a chance to add depth around the remaining core, assuming they also stay.

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Is that right? The team can of course go over the cap to re-sign its own players. But they are so far over the cap that I don't think KD and Livingston leaving get them under.

Anyways, I don't agree with Tom that this is the last time they're in the Finals if KD leaves. They'd still be the best team in the West.

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I haven't looked deeply into it, so you could be right. I'm just assuming that big contracts coming off the books means more space freed up, but the NBA cap is complicated.

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It is right; the W's can spend as much as they want to sign Klay and KD to new deals this offseason, but if KD leaves they don't have cap space to sign anyone else. They can only use midlevel exception slots or veteran minimum slots. And the W's can only offer Cousins a relatively small raise over the midlevel exception money he is getting this year, whereas any team under the cap can pay Cousins well over twice as much.

oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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concordtom said:

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concordtom said:

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Kawhi travelled on that dunk and-1.
That's a sign of his injury, couldn't just rise up.

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The third angle shows it best, and look at Kerr immediately signal for traveling.

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Come on, that was only four steps.

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Jay Williams ran a segment showing how Kawhi is hurt. Multiple clips showing his favoring one leg.
In several clips, he was jumping to the hoops off his left leg, but couldn't explode and so had to seek a foul, or stretch to a scoop layup rather than a dunk over the top. He suggested "drop foot" where you can't pick up the toe. He showed how he had to jump off both feet to rise up.

After seeing the compilation, it was very clear.

I realize Kawhi will get a max contract with whomever he signs, but this makes two years in a row with bad legs, and you just wonder. If he was an NFL running back, he'd be done based on that alone. Those guys take hits and are done early in their career.

I'm calling Kawhi's past his peak.

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What source do you have that indicates Leonard's injury is permanent or even the same injury he had last year? Isn't it possible he tweaked his leg against the Bucks? Despite this, he is still dominating the Warriors.

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Not permanent. Didn't say that.
And I don't know how related this may be to his Spurs injury issue.
I'm just referring to aging and the subtraction process.

Everyone gets lathered up in saying he's a God. But the truth is, athletes are at their peak for a relatively short time, and are replaced by new up and comers.

Related to age, this is both stupid and interesting

Who here wants to share opinions about the Mark Stevens push situation?

Like, it was totally Not Right.

But give me a break.
$500,000 fine? And now they are saying he needs to be kicked out of the league and forced to sell his portion of ownership?

And it's fine for Lowry to make his statement against Stevens after the game, but every time I hear that replay I think he is being a whiny little wuss.
Dude, chill out.

concordtom said:

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Who here wants to share opinions about the Mark Stevens push situation?

Like, it was totally Not Right.

But give me a break.
$500,000 fine? And now they are saying he needs to be kicked out of the league and forced to sell his portion of ownership?

And it's fine for Lowry to make his statement against Stevens after the game, but every time I hear that replay I think he is being a whiny little wuss.
Dude, chill out.

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Lowry is a wuss who commits truckloads of fouls himself and then whines if the officials ever whistle him for a foul. He is Toronto's version of Patrick Beverley.

But, a team owner should be held to a much higher standard in the arena than any other a--hole tech bro who sits in the front row. I don't think the fine is necessary, but sending a message by barring him from the arena for a year is good.

The W's asking Stevens to sell his small minority interest is just damage control on their part. They won't have any problem finding some other dude with money to burn who wants to brag that he's a Warriors owner.

Besides, if the Raptors win the title, Stevens can be just like Durant and tell everyone he knows that the W's would have won if he was there. ;-)

concordtom said:

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ClayK said:

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It will be interesting to see attendance at the Chase Center when the Warriors' goal is just to reach the playoffs rather than win a title.

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I think they will do more than fine.
It's pretty incredible to watch the development from south of market all the way to Potrero Hill happen since the 80's. It was all warehouse no man's land.

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When I see the last remnants of The Who there in October I will feel like a traitor to my hometown and will have to take a shower when I get home to get the taint off...and we all know what.....don't we?

'The heart is here': why the Warriors' success is more bitter than sweet

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jun/07/the-heart-is-here-why-the-warriors-success-is-more-bitter-than-sweet?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Lowry made his statement after the game, and then piled on next day trying to have max punishment on Stevens.

Here's Jalen Rose weighing in on it.
He likened it to spilling coffee on someone else, and he gives Stevens some slack.
Fast forward to 10:40 to hear him.



Yes, Stevens was wrong. He went overboard, but then Wuss-boy wanted to milk it for all it was worth.

These NBA guys get hit upside the head all game long, and then he's going to be affected by a little shoulder push? Oh, so wounded.
I'm not saying it doesn't matter.
But Lowry effectively threatened that he could fire back at the fan (later learned was part owner).

If this was his Toronto guy, he'd be all "forget about it". He just wanted to create something bigger than it was because he was in Oracle. That is a sign of a guy who isn't focused on task #1.
I hope they boo his ass tonight, and that he crumbles under the attention and pressure.

ClayK said:

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It will be interesting to see attendance at the Chase Center when the Warriors' goal is just to reach the playoffs rather than win a title.

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Given they're the only NBA team in a region with a lot of people and lots of money, I suspect attendance will always be fine. Prices will go down if the team starts to suck, though.

concordtom said:

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These NBA guys get hit upside the head all game long, and then he's going to be affected by a little shoulder push? Oh, so wounded.
I'm not saying it doesn't matter.
But Lowry effectively threatened that he could fire back at the fan (later learned was part owner).

If this was his Toronto guy, he'd be all "forget about it". He just wanted to create something bigger than it was because he was in Oracle. That is a sign of a guy who isn't focused on task #1.
I hope they boo his ass tonight, and that he crumbles under the attention and pressure.

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Major d***** move by the U$C grad, gotta be some major consequences, but to make THIS big a deal out of it is just part of the "woke" agenda that the media is pushing these days.

Half the "news" stories these days are about somebody-said- ___, or somebody-misbehaved-by-_____. Meanwhile, the planet is going to heck in a handbasket.

"Half the "news" stories these days are about somebody-said- ___, or somebody-misbehaved-by-_____. Meanwhile, the planet is going to heck in a handbasket"

Very True.

Looney will play tonight, although no Spare Ribs.

Thompson will also play.

Durant a no unless you are in Berkeley looking for Too Dog.

oskidunker said:

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Looney will play tonight, although no Spare Ribs.

Thompson will also play.

Durant a no unless you are in Berkeley looking for Too Dog.

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Thankfully, Top Dog, at least, is not leaving after the season. ;-)

There used to be a hot dog place in Orange County that served Top Dog's sausages (they called the place "Berkeley Dog") but it closed down about two years ago.

Warriors just look gassed. All the miles catching up to them.

Yup. Pretty sure that was the last ever game at Oracle. Brutal way to end.

Last NBA game in Oakland? Kinda depressing...

Lots going on this evening:

- Most all the W's showed negative body language all game. Surprised the announcers didn't comment on it. Cousins is out there. Klay is out there. Looney playing (???) in obvious pain. Durant can't play?!? That's a bad look. If I enjoyed drama, I'd like to be a fly on the wall inside the team right now.

- Somebody besides Curry and Thompson needs to be able to knock down a 3-pointer. Small sample size, but I've hardly ever seen Quinn Cook hit an outside shot when it counted.

- Speaking of Curry, his personal trainer was mouthing off in the media about how Steph can go for 48 minutes. Well, not on both ends of the court, apparently, because he was GIVING baskets to Toronto tonight.

+ Hats off to Fred Van Vleet: Forget about him not looking like an NBA player. If I was guarding him in rec league (back in the day), I'd be feeling pretty confident, then later figuring he lucked out, after he torched me. I'd be even more confident the next game... and of course I'd be torched again. He's everything Quinn Cook should be, but isn't. Was that really his tooth on the floor tonight?

I'd like to see another game in Oakland, but it looks like the Warriors are done.

1. I think Steph was gassed from giving so much effort in Game 3, so he had nothing left tonight. Lots of guys (Klay, Looney, Boogie, Iggy) also clearly playing with nagging injuries and don't have their usual physical skills. The "body language" is just physical stuff like that. I don't think it was a lack of effort. They've clearly been playing hard since KD went out.

Frankly, this is what happens after multiple Finals trips. You've basically played a whole extra season of playoff games, and that adds up. I didn't expect it to crash this badly in home games, but being so short-handed compounds the problem.

2. Cook hit some big shots as recently as Game 2. Just didn't make 'em tonight. The Warriors wouldn't have to rely on him if not for the health problems, but that's how it goes. He was never a great defensive player.

Maybe KD never sets foot on court so the story line will be written:

Warriors won 1 chip.
Warriors lost to Cavs.
KD won 2 chips.
Warriors lost to Toronto.

The fact that he hasn't said **** in support of his teammates is weak. They've said all sorts of praise for him. Where is Kevin Durant, teammate?

concordtom said:

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Maybe KD never sets foot on court so the story line will be written:

Warriors won 1 chip.
Warriors lost to Cavs.
KD won 2 chips.
Warriors lost to Toronto.

The fact that he hasn't said **** in support of his teammates is weak. They've said all sorts of praise for him. Where is Kevin Durant, teammate?

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Warriors got what they wanted out of KD (two titles), and so did he. If he moves on that's fine too. He'll never have the emotional connection Steph has with the fans, and the Warriors can still contend without him.

Well, I look forward to seeing what next tricks Lacob has up his sleeves.

Quote:

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But Lacob won't accept that what the Warriors have achieved is a product of anything but a master plan. "The great, great venture capitalists who built company after company, that's not an accident," he said. "And none of this is an accident, either." [...]

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Quote:

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When I asked him about the previous night's game, he could hardly contain himself. He boasted that the Warriors are playing in a far more sophisticated fashion than the rest of the league. "We've crushed them on the basketball court, and we're going to for years because of the way we've built this team," he said. But what really set the franchise apart, he said, was the way it operated as a business. "We're light-years ahead of probably every other team in structure, in planning, in how we're going to go about things," he said. "We're going to be a handful for the rest of the N.B.A. to deal with for a long time."

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They said he would play last night and he did not. Can they win 3 in a row if he plays? I doubt it.

warriors are done

KD is not going to play. 1% chance of that happening, and if he did it wouldn't matter

If I was a Raptor fan, I actually would want KD to play to partially take away the excuses

the thing is, it was not just Leonard. He is absolutely the player who won this championship for Toronto. No doubt about that. Like Curry, he makes the entire defense react to him, even when he doesn't have the ball.

but Toronto is not a one man team, and they play very good team ball with their passing, looking a lot like the warriors at their peak (which looks over)

I have my opinions of what the warriors will do and look like next year, but I'll wait till the finals are over, which I expect will be game 5

Embarrassing performance last night -- both effort and execution. Shameful.

Warriors aren't making finals next year with this groups minus KD.