Just win the next game at Oracle. It's possible. Glad it's coming back. This team has heart

Question for Raptor Coach in post game pressie:

Thank you, bearister, BearInsider, "Yes, Coach, was Kevin Lowry trying to injure a specific area of Looney's body when he undercut him or was he just aiming for a general catastrophic injury?"

This game showed how fortunate Warriors fans have been to have this run of 5 years (so far). So much heart from this team tonight. Such a treat to watch ir play out.

Hoop, don't tell. Go Dubs!

ducky23 said:

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And sure gasol's size may pose a problem, but if it is, you just give bogut and now cousins more mins to neutralize him.

Both bogut and cousins are more playable in this series since you don't have a harden or lillard running pnrs. The raptors are not pnr heavy and while Lowry can get you a bit, you can try running under high screens against Kawhi and see if he can burn you. Shooting moving threes isn't really kawhi's thing (though he is capable)

I'm not afraid of bogut/cousins guarding gasol on the perimeter because he's not Embiid. You can run gasol off the line without any fear he can drive on you.

And it's not just gasol's pnr defense that is a huge problem. Draymond is gojng to be pushing the ball like crazy with gasol on the floor, even after made baskets. Gasol is probably the slowest of all the centers the dubs have faced this far. The worst thing the raptors can do is allow the warriors to get quick buckets and control the pace.

---

The death of the big man in basketball has been greatly exaggerated. And the Raptors have indeed abused the Warriors' switching defense in a number of ways, but larger with the old standby pick and roll with a big man going to the paint and scoring.

Golden One said:

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bearister said:

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Golden One said:

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..., it would take a miracle.

---

a/k/a Kawhi's gimpy leg finally blowing up. That team is a One Trick Pony. I do like Kawhi and wish him no ill will.

---

I'm not so sure about that one trick pony thing. They have a very solid starting lineup, and their bench is deeper than GS. Leonard's gimpy leg doesn't seem to be slowing him down so far, so I can't believe it's much of a threat to his ability to play at MVP level.

---

Wouldn't bet on it but stranger things have happened. Win a game with the home crowd, and then it's winner-take-all Game 7.

Unfortunate. I suspect GS still offers Durant the max deal, and Durant really has no choice but to take it, because nobody else will.

So the last sequence ...

Kawhi Leonard is beasting on the Warriors, scoring every time down, and the ball has to go to him and he has to take the last shot ... or so one would think.

But Iguodala abandoned Lowry to jump up and double-team Leonard and Leonard gave the ball up.

First, I think Leonard has to attack one of the two defenders and take the shot himself. This is not the time to let someone else decide the game.

Second, Lowry went to the left side of the court, where Gasol was already posted up and Green was defending on the block. If Lowry goes to the right side, there's no one there and there's no way Green can switch out and block the shot, so if Leonard does pass the ball, it's a wide open look.

Third, Toronto had been abusing Golden State in the pick-and-roll pretty much every time down, but there was no hint of it in this situation. Of course Green was guarding Gasol which makes that switch less attractive, but how about screening with VanVleet and seeing if Curry is forced to switch?

Obviously, a lot more to the game than one play, but still ...

ClayK said:

---

So the last sequence ...

Kawhi Leonard is beasting on the Warriors, scoring every time down, and the ball has to go to him and he has to take the last shot ... or so one would think.

But Iguodala abandoned Lowry to jump up and double-team Leonard and Leonard gave the ball up.

First, I think Leonard has to attack one of the two defenders and take the shot himself. This is not the time to let someone else decide the game.

Second, Lowry went to the left side of the court, where Gasol was already posted up and Green was defending on the block. If Lowry goes to the right side, there's no one there and there's no way Green can switch out and block the shot, so if Leonard does pass the ball, it's a wide open look.

Third, Toronto had been abusing Golden State in the pick-and-roll pretty much every time down, but there was no hint of it in this situation. Of course Green was guarding Gasol which makes that switch less attractive, but how about screening with VanVleet and seeing if Curry is forced to switch?

Obviously, a lot more to the game than one play, but still ...

---

Toronto used a time out in the middle of Leonard's run to call a play but didn't call one before this. Weird.

GBear4Life said:

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Unfortunate. I suspect GS still offers Durant the max deal, and Durant really has no choice but to take it, because nobody else will.

---

Apparently, according to news reports I'm hearing, everyone would still offer him a 4 year deal, even if he misses year 1. KD is that good.

I pontificated last night that KD going down could end up being the best thing that could happen to the warriors.
Let's say KD, as a result of the love bond that grows from it, signs with GS.
He could sit out the entire regular season, and return for the playoffs.
The warriors could limo to an 8-seed and if he heals well enough, the W's could be right back here in the finals again.

DC discusses human nature.

ClayK said:

---

So the last sequence ...

Kawhi Leonard is beasting on the Warriors, scoring every time down, and the ball has to go to him and he has to take the last shot ... or so one would think.

But Iguodala abandoned Lowry to jump up and double-team Leonard and Leonard gave the ball up.

First, I think Leonard has to attack one of the two defenders and take the shot himself. This is not the time to let someone else decide the game.

Second, Lowry went to the left side of the court, where Gasol was already posted up and Green was defending on the block. If Lowry goes to the right side, there's no one there and there's no way Green can switch out and block the shot, so if Leonard does pass the ball, it's a wide open look.

Third, Toronto had been abusing Golden State in the pick-and-roll pretty much every time down, but there was no hint of it in this situation. Of course Green was guarding Gasol which makes that switch less attractive, but how about screening with VanVleet and seeing if Curry is forced to switch?

Obviously, a lot more to the game than one play, but still ...

---

Also, watch Gasol. If he heads toward the hoop, Draymond would have had to stay with him, or else the Van Vleet pass could have gone to Gasol for an easy dunk. Instead he awkwardly sticks to Draymond as Dray begins to cheat out on Lowry. This allowed Dray to both defend Gasol and make the block on Lowry. Bizarre.

Oracle watch party report from last night:

It was fun. The crowd was insane at the end. And for most of the game.
I couldn't really ever hear the TV commentators, which was a bummer.
The tv screen is square and so could not show the entire half court action at portions of the game. Today's new screen is wider, and Oracle showed its age there. The new screen at golden1 in Sac is way bigger.

It was interesting to me to see 95% of the crowd in Warriors gear.
And it was interesting to see only 10% of the crowd be white like me. As you know, I moved to Placer county about 8 years ago. It's incredibly white. It was great to see the mix of humanity! Lots of thoughts on that, politics. Like two different worlds. But this is the hoops board, so....

Tickets were $25 and service fee $5 and parking $20. It was not sold out, but was 90% full. My bother asked a bartender inside what she felt about the event, and she said they sold WAAAY less in alcohol. At $16 for a large can of beer, no doubt. I talked to some cops outside afterwards and asked if they are there for regular/actual games. He said yes. I asked if this was the poor man's finals. He didn't understand. I said, people like me who can't afford the prices of the finals games. He laughed and agreed (he was a minority, FYI). But he said he loved this crowd way better, as the people are way more lively and enthusiastic. I could see that.

There were lots of parents who brought their kids, though mostly 20-40 y.o. adults.

They dropped confetti, and a few short fireworks on the roof after.

It's a weird thing going to an arena to watch a tv with terrible sound. But it was worth it. We had a lot of fun and took celebratory pictures in the confetti, and high fives everyone around us. People there were all great fans and made for great chatter during the game, too.

I hadn't been to Oracle in 20 years. It was great to say goodbye!

sycasey said:

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Toronto used a time out in the middle of Leonard's run to call a play but didn't call one before this. Weird.

---

Both the timeout at 3:05 and not taking one before the last play are defensible.

Toronto had 3 timeouts remaining, and a team can only take 2 timeouts in the last 3 minutes, so taking one there was a free timeout for the Raptors. I thought Nurse wanted to remind the team to play smart, bleed the clock, hold onto the lead, etc. It's only in hindsight that the timeout can be second guessed. If Toronto wins by 8, no one even remembers the 3:05 timeout.

Not taking a timeout before the last play is something coaches often do. It's a decision to not let the defense get set, maybe hope the defense is disorganized and you can get a drive down the lane or a wide open shot. Didn't work this time for the Raptors.

Totally stupid talk on tv heads this morning about KD.
Who is to blame.
Should he or should he not?
Give me a joke.

The team and KD are on the cusp of a three peat title.
If that happens, KD is a fricking mvp hero, again!
Who else has done that? MJ.

And now people are saying that he shouldn't have tried to go for it.
As if they knew he'd blow out his Achilles.

Tuesday morning quarterbacks are always geniuses.

I honor the warriors staff.
I honor Kevin Durant.
I honor everything the teammates have said, and how they have responded.

The only thing that is missing is for KD to sit down at the mic and tell everyone to f.o. by reminding them of the opportunity at hand.

Folks are saying that Dominique Wilkins is the only guy to return from an Achilles successfully.



A torn Achilles is considered one of the most severe injuries an NBA player can sustain, and often has a serious impact on careers after the fact, especially for big men.
To get a better idea of Cousins' odds of once again being considered one of the best centers in the NBA, let's take a look at six recent cases of players who sustained notable Achilles injuries, and how it affected their careers.

Wesley Matthews
When: March 2015, Age 28
2014-15 pre-injury averages: 15.9 points, 3.7 rebounds, 56.3 effective field goal percentage
Post-injury: 12.9 points, 3.2 rebounds, 50.3 eFG%
Matthews was entering his prime, and on his way to becoming one of the elite 3-and-D wings in the NBA. In his two seasons prior to the injury, Matthews averaged over 16 points a game, with an effective field goal percentage of 50.5.
Matthews hasn't been the same since, averaging 12.7 points a game last year, while looking a step slow defensively. At 31, Matthews is no longer the player the Mavericks thought they were getting when they signed him to a four-year, $70 million contract in 2015.

Rudy Gay
When: January 2017, Age 30
2016-17 pre-injury averages: 18.7 points, 6.3 rebounds, 50.2 eFG%
Post-injury: 11.5 points, 5.1 rebounds, 50.6 eFG%
Like Matthews, Gay recovered from the Achilles injury quickly, playing in the opening game of the next season. That fact is a positive indicator for DeMarcus Cousins, showing that with the proper rehab, players can make it back to the court much quicker than in previous years.
Gay's efficiency stayed pretty consistant in 2017-18, but his minutes took a serious hit, averaging just 21.8 per game after averaging over 30 per game for nearly his entire career. At this point, it's too early to tell how much of Gay's drop in production has to do with the Spurs not wanting to push him, how much has to do with natural regression, and how much has to do with the Achilles.

Kobe Bryant
When: March 2013, Age 34
2012-13 pre-injury averages: 27.3 points, 5.6 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 50.4 eFG%
Post-injury: 18.9 points, 4.4 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 41.6 eFG%
Though past his prime at age 34, Bryant was still an All-Star caliber player at the time of his injury. He would never be that again. Bryant regressed in nearly every statistical category in the three years after tearing his Achilles, with his shooting percentages plummeting. In 107 games between 2014-2016, Bryant shot 36.6 percent from the field, and a ghastly 28.5 percent from deep.

Elton Brand
When: August 2007, Age 28
2006-07 pre-injury averages: 20.5 points, 9.3 rebounds, 2.2 blocks, 53.3 eFG%
Post-injury: 10 points, 6.3 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 48.9 eFG%
At 6-foot-8, 275 pounds, Brand is good comparison for Cousins. Upon his return from injury, Brand was no longer able to jump off one foot, and saw his speed and explosiveness take a substantial hit accordingly. After averaging 20 points or more in six of his first eight seasons, Brand never eclipsed more than 15 points a game in a season after tearing the Achilles.

Mehmet Okur
When: April 2010, Age 30
2009-10 pre-injury averages: 13.5 points, 7.1 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 51.1 eFG%
Post-injury: 6.5 points, 3.7 rebounds, 1.6 assists
Another big who saw a steep regression following a torn Achilles, Okur's career essentially ended following his injury in 2010. Okur played in just 30 games the following two seasons before retiring at the age of 32.

Chauncey Billups
When: February 2012, Age 35
2011-12 pre-injury averages: 15 points, 2.3 rebounds, 4 assists,
Post-injury: 6.2 points, 1.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists
Billups' injury is a bit harder to evaluate considering the point guard was already at the tail end of his career. It's clear, however, that Billups still had quite a bit left in the tank before tearing his Achilles, averaging 15 points in just over 30 minutes a game before the injury.
Like Okur, the injury basically ended Billups' career. He would go on to appear in just 41 games over the next two seasons before calling it quits.

PATRICK EWING, KNICKS
Age when hurt: 36
Injured: June 1, 1999
Returned: Dec. 10, 1999
Pre-injury stats: 23.2 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 977 games
Post-injury stats: 9.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 206 games

DOMINIQUE WILKINS, HAWKS
Age when hurt: 32
Injured: Jan. 28, 1992
Returned: Nov. 6, 1992
Pre-injury stats: 26.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 762 games
Post-injury stats: 25.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 312 games

ELGIN BAYLOR, LAKERS
Age when hurt: 36
Returned: Oct. 15, 1971
Pre-injury stats: 27.5 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 837 games
Post-injury stats: 11.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 9 games

I hope the warriors re-sign Kevin and that he becomes the beloved hometown hero he always wanted to be.
His welcome back party will be huge. Should be huge!

In the old days, when guys were injured, people would say "gut it out. How tough are you? Don't be a p*ssy."

Those are NOW the old days.

I'd have never thought he could blow out his Achilles based on a weak calf.
People will now say KD response was wrong, and that Kawhi response was right.
Rest, get 100% healthy.

concordtom said:

---

In the old days, when guys were injured, people would say "gut it out. How tough are you? Don't be a p*ssy."

Those are NOW the old days.

I'd have never thought he could blow out his Achilles based on a weak calf.
People will now say KD response was wrong, and that Kawhi response was right.
Rest, get 100% healthy.

---

$$$$$$. . . $$$-$ !

sonofabear51 said:

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GBear, yes they can last for a while. It depends on the severity and how quickly the body heals. You should see the times for a couple guys older than me. We have a 70 year old who routinely runs 23 minutes, and another 59 YO who is one of the fastest guy in the country for the 800 meter run. 2:11. LOL

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Who is "we"?

The running community in the Ventura County area.

sonofabear51 said:

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The running community in the Ventura County area.

---

That is very cool, and my hat's off to you for continuing. I'm older than the ones you mentioned, but usually walk 3 miles in the hills every other day. I'm sprinkling in a little running to get in better shape. I'm up to 200 yards running a couple times, during the 3-mile walks, not jogging. A tiny bit of progress.

GMP said:

---

ClayK said:

---

So the last sequence ...

Kawhi Leonard is beasting on the Warriors, scoring every time down, and the ball has to go to him and he has to take the last shot ... or so one would think.

But Iguodala abandoned Lowry to jump up and double-team Leonard and Leonard gave the ball up.

First, I think Leonard has to attack one of the two defenders and take the shot himself. This is not the time to let someone else decide the game.

Second, Lowry went to the left side of the court, where Gasol was already posted up and Green was defending on the block. If Lowry goes to the right side, there's no one there and there's no way Green can switch out and block the shot, so if Leonard does pass the ball, it's a wide open look.

Third, Toronto had been abusing Golden State in the pick-and-roll pretty much every time down, but there was no hint of it in this situation. Of course Green was guarding Gasol which makes that switch less attractive, but how about screening with VanVleet and seeing if Curry is forced to switch?

Obviously, a lot more to the game than one play, but still ...

---

Also, watch Gasol. If he heads toward the hoop, Draymond would have had to stay with him, or else the Van Vleet pass could have gone to Gasol for an easy dunk. Instead he awkwardly sticks to Draymond as Dray begins to cheat out on Lowry. This allowed Dray to both defend Gasol and make the block on Lowry. Bizarre.

---

legler broke Dray's position on this last play quite expertly as well as the entire sequence.

SFCityBear said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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The running community in the Ventura County area.

---

That is very cool, and my hat's off to you for continuing. I'm older than the ones you mentioned, but usually walk 3 miles in the hills every other day. I'm sprinkling in a little running to get in better shape. I'm up to 200 yards running a couple times, during the 3-mile walks, not jogging. A tiny bit of progress.

---

are any of these runner dudes posting Leonard, are 7ft, and can dunk from half court? Horrible analogy. C'mon. This injury sucks and to come back and play in the NBA is not even remotely comparable to running toad races....Was going to edit toad to road but I'll leave it at toad

concordtom said:

---

In the old days, when guys were injured, people would say "gut it out. How tough are you? Don't be a p*ssy."

Those are NOW the old days.

I'd have never thought he could blow out his Achilles based on a weak calf.
People will now say KD response was wrong, and that Kawhi response was right.
Rest, get 100% healthy.

---

Don't you think KD's injury last month was actually an Achilles (not a complete tear or rupture, obviously) and not a calf? That was certainly the way the announcers were describing it, at the time, when he initially went down. It would explain why he took so long to come back and also better explain Bob "Sensitive Guy" Myers' tearful "Blame me" speech last night.

"Blame me" a/k/a admission against interest and an exception to the hearsay rule and thus a statement admissible to prove liability in a civil suit. I'm sure Joe "I'm going to stiff you" Lacob is pleased with the GM.

All meaningless in that teams are lining up to sign him to a Max contract and take a risk on him so KD will never have any lost earnings damages.

Nice

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/new-york-daily-news-kevin-durant-backpage-headline

Big C said:

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concordtom said:

---

In the old days, when guys were injured, people would say "gut it out. How tough are you? Don't be a p*ssy."

Those are NOW the old days.

I'd have never thought he could blow out his Achilles based on a weak calf.
People will now say KD response was wrong, and that Kawhi response was right.
Rest, get 100% healthy.

---

Don't you think KD's injury last month was actually an Achilles (not a complete tear or rupture, obviously) and not a calf? That was certainly the way the announcers were describing it, at the time, when he initially went down. It would explain why he took so long to come back and also better explain Bob "Sensitive Guy" Myers' tearful "Blame me" speech last night.

---

No way!
I don't believe that at all.

1. KD grabbed his calf, not his Achilles, as he did last night.
2. He never had a boot on, like he did last night.
3. Announcers can guess and pontificate all they want about the injury. They are not doctors, they are not Kerr, who spoke on it. He doesn't lie. And I don't believe the doctors or staff would lie to him.
4. If it was Achilles related, no way would he have come back so soon.

I didn't know he could mess up his achilles with it being a calf. I had heard talk of that, and suppose the staff should have known, so that TOTALLY sucks.
But like I said, an historic 3-peat was right there for the taking. How many could resist that, provided they thought the calf could not I jure him worse (which is what Kerr said they believed).

cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

sonofabear51 said:

---

The running community in the Ventura County area.

---

That is very cool, and my hat's off to you for continuing. I'm older than the ones you mentioned, but usually walk 3 miles in the hills every other day. I'm sprinkling in a little running to get in better shape. I'm up to 200 yards running a couple times, during the 3-mile walks, not jogging. A tiny bit of progress.

---

are any of these runner dudes posting Leonard, are 7ft, and can dunk from half court? Horrible analogy. C'mon. This injury sucks and to come back and play in the NBA is not even remotely comparable to running toad races....Was going to edit toad to road but I'll leave it at toad

---

I do apologize for writing an off topic post.

However, no one is making any analogy here to anything, or at least I can't seem to find one. GBear and sonofabear51 were discussing the difference between a calf injury and an Achilles injury. sonofabear51 mentioned his running in context only as it pertained to the calf or leg injury. A calf injury affects the same part of the anatomy, no matter in what activity you received the injury. Same for an Achilles injury. He was talking about his experience healing from both injuries. The fact that he is a runner somehow bothers you? Are only NBA players able to comment on these types of injuries? I thought they happen to athletes in many sports, and to people who are not athletes of any kind. I understand your pain and remorse for Durant, and the greatness of NBA athletes, but they get millions of dollars for just playing a game. They get the best trainers, best rehab, and best medical care that money can buy. They are protected, (over-protected, IMO) in their game by rules and referees, and the star players are especially protected. I respect KD for what he did. If he thought only of his injury, he might not have played. And i'm not sure why the exaggeration. KD and Leonard are not 7 ft tall, and no one can dunk from half court, unless they take a lot of steps to get there. Wilt could dunk from the free throw line, and so can Westbrook, I believe, but that ain't from half court. Finally, toads don't run races. They jump, they hop, but I've never seen one run. Not a good analogy, either.
\

https://instagr.am/p/BykoecPFTg1

concordtom said:

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Big C said:

---

concordtom said:

---

In the old days, when guys were injured, people would say "gut it out. How tough are you? Don't be a p*ssy."

Those are NOW the old days.

I'd have never thought he could blow out his Achilles based on a weak calf.
People will now say KD response was wrong, and that Kawhi response was right.
Rest, get 100% healthy.

---

Don't you think KD's injury last month was actually an Achilles (not a complete tear or rupture, obviously) and not a calf? That was certainly the way the announcers were describing it, at the time, when he initially went down. It would explain why he took so long to come back and also better explain Bob "Sensitive Guy" Myers' tearful "Blame me" speech last night.

---

No way!
I don't believe that at all.

1. KD grabbed his calf, not his Achilles, as he did last night.
2. He never had a boot on, like he did last night.
3. Announcers can guess and pontificate all they want about the injury. They are not doctors, they are not Kerr, who spoke on it. He doesn't lie. And I don't believe the doctors or staff would lie to him.
4. If it was Achilles related, no way would he have come back so soon.

I didn't know he could mess up his achilles with it being a calf. I had heard talk of that, and suppose the staff should have known, so that TOTALLY sucks.
But like I said, an historic 3-peat was right there for the taking. How many could resist that, provided they thought the calf could not I jure him worse (which is what Kerr said they believed).

---

1. No, not really.
2. ?!?
3. Get real.
4. Could have been Achilles, but not complete tear or rupture.

When Durant got injured last month, they kept replaying it and the announcers kept saying it sure looked like an Achilles. The next day, nope, it's a calf, but then he can't come back for FOUR WEEKS, even though Klay and Looney are coming back from a hamstring and a torn cartilage after only two DAYS (it is the finals, after all). Then, when he finally comes back, after only one quarter, he suddenly tears that Achilles, which had been "perfectly healthy" prior?!? It ISN'T a very common injury, you know.

And what's with that phony-azz Bob Myers? Okay, I get it's 2019 and men can cry. And I get he really, REALLY cares about his players (especially when they're superstars he wants to re-sign). When he was crying for multi-millionaire Kevin Durant getting injured, all I could think about were the THOUSANDS of people going on disability this month who have been barely able to make ends meet for their families and now what are they going to do? Pooooor Kevin Durant: All those questions from the media -- ALL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR -- and now he's injured! Some guys just have a rough life...

HoopDreams said:

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https://instagr.am/p/BykoecPFTg1

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I'd criticize her use of capital letters, but she's at least as good as the President of the United States in that regard, so I'll cut her some slack.