You can have a conversation about Musk buying Twitter without going into personal attacks because of what people have posted in other threads. Cal88 has done nothing here to deserve this abuse.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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calbear93 said:

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Cal88 said:

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Musk wants to change the culture at Twitter, and reinstill a tech culture there. The best coders and engineers are driven workaholics. What someone wrote a few posts above about workaholics generally being inefficient and promoting a toxic workspace is largely true in managerial positions, but it isn`t true among technical staff. The best of these have virtually no life outside their work, and that`s perfectly alright with them.

As well, among this tech culture, there are far more workers who don`t like being constrained by a pervasive woke culture than people who are liberal zealots. There are a lot more James Damores (guy who was fired from Google for writing a long memo on gender dynamics in the tech workplace) in the top engineering circles than Yao Yues (woman who was recently fired from Twitter), so Twitter will be a magnet for the former types.

The other issue is that many big tech companies, especially those that are public content-driven spaces like Twitter, FB or Reddit have become excessively politicized, stifling and distorting free speech with bots, dynamic bans and algorithm manipulation. The political culture that has been enshrined into Twitter is hostile to someone like Musk who is more of a freethinking independent, so what we`re seeing now is him turning Twitter into a culture that is more like that of a normal, less politicized tech-driven startup from the 90s or 00s.

---

Couple of things you are missing. If you are a workaholics, top tier coder, why work at an oppressive culture at Twitter as opposed to overworking at Google? It isn't as if Twitter is some amazing platform or amazing coding opportunity.

Any do you think Twitter, FB or Reddit became politicized because of the leaders or because of the demands of the work force and investors?

---

What do you think constitutes an oppressive work environment is for a top coder? It`s overbearing HR commissars, passive aggressive managers who get on their case over language, or having to sit through sensitivity training seminars as a result of some perceived microaggression by a zoomer project mgr or assistant. Most coders identify a lot more with Musk than Vijaya Gadde or any of the Twitter mgrs who got fired.

The main reason Twitter, FB etc became politicized is because they are dominated by non-technical people from the Bay Area, who tend to be very liberal. These organizations have morphed from a culture of tech startups into something that is more like that of a liberal NGO.

Also, there has been a huge influx into the industry of liberal arts grad types who have gone to coding camps or night school to take advantage of high salaries. A few years ago I was building an app and looked to hire product mgrs, there were 24yo kids from NYU or Brown with BAs and a 6-mo coding camp who were asking for $125K, they had none of the fundamental technical skills to do the job and knew less about computer science than a 16yo future CS student. These workers tend to be excessively politicized, have a very high sense of entitlement and a relatively poor work ethic, whereas the culture at CS/engineering depts in academia is completely different - male-dominated, nose to the grindstone and not very politicized; not much of a life outside of work.

---

Just curious, how many coders at twitter have you spoken to? Because what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I'm hearing.

I've talked to a bunch and yet to hear a single person say that they were excited for Musk to take over the company (or that they knew of any other coder who was excited). People are specifically running for the doors because of what Elno is doing. My tiny company has already hired a few and is in talks with others and we hear the same thing over and over. Elno is toxic to Twitter's engineering culture.

You make baseless statements about coders not identifying with Gadde or other managers but you ignore that Musk is making engineers self-certify to FTC compliance and won't let people work from home (which was extremely popular among the developers).

---

What was your major at Cal, PEIS, Poli Sci? I am a graduate of the College of Engineering.

My first job out of college was programmer/analyst. I worked with several tech startups since, including one with the inventors of bit torrent technology, content delivery and storage solutions that ended up laying the foundation for the cloud structure.

My main circle of alumni friends with whom we chat almost every day are almost all in tech, group of almost all Cal alum guys including:
two CPOs (heads of product dvpt)
a math grad in BI/AI,
a network engineer,
a founder/CEO of a software service co with a staff of 500+ people,
etc

The group is having a ball watching the purge at Twitter and the meltdown at FTX. Some of these guys, as typical of maths or physics grads at top schools, are a little bit eccentric, and really dislike the recent cultural changes in corporate America and in the industry, mainly the influx in the industry of a lot of people with non tech backgrounds and questionable skills due to the rise in workforce demand, and the rise in woke culture, with non-tech mgmt and HR types butting into their work.

---

Lol, we never had any doubt that you are informed by your echo chamber of anti woke white men. They should go work for Elno so they can all fail together.

This also confirms you don't know anyone at Twitter and don't understand what's going on there.

As for credentials, I graduated with honors in EEC:S (Tau Beta Pi as well) and I was a TA my last 2 years at Cal and took a number of graduate courses in CS as well.

As I've stated again and again, my team includes a number of recent hires (all devs) from Twitter who have been recruiting their colleagues heavily. I am no longer a professional software developer, but I continue to work closely with them and understand the industry.

You continue to make baseless claims about what's going on there meanwhile article after article confirm what I've been telling y'all. It's not too hard for people in this thread to see that you are making stuff up and I'm not.

See here from yesterday (all after I made my posts):
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/tech/twitter-employees-ultimatum-deadline/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/media/twitter-exodus-reliable-sources/index.html

---

You're basically in a bigger echo chamber, one which includes CNN reporters like the ones you are quoting here as your source for what's happening at Twitter, reporters who are in the midst of Elon derangement syndrome (EDS), which seems to have replaced TDS.

...

Musk's main problem is not dealing with an alleged exodus of talented tech workers, most of the people being purged are deadweight. It is a much bigger challenge, that of taking on the cultural and political establishment that hates the fact that their favorite platform is no longer their highly regulated and regimented playground and echo chamber.

---

You have literally no basis for any statements you are making about twitter. You don't know a single person there and it appears that you don't understand tech. All you have is vague, irrelevant, uninformed and non-sensical political beliefs.

I'm not in an echo chamber, I'm reporting one degree removed from the front lines. I'm telling you what staff software engineers (and others) are telling me. Actual humans I've spoken to who worked at twitter (or did until they resigned post Elno).

You should be embarrassed by how wrong you've been but you continue to abase yourself. You have no idea what Elno could do to keep the "good" engineers and send the bad ones away. I'll give you some help though - it's not what he's been doing. As I predicted days ago, Elno allowing people to quit and receive severance would send all good employees running for the exits. They were already running before, but paying them to quite just accelerated things.

It's possible there are some good engineers left. Out of an org that large, I certainly don't have the connectivity to claim otherwise, but Elno has pissed away most of the talent any rational acquirer would want to keep. Now unlike most tech companies, I think twitter's brand and reach was the top asset - not their tech talent - but no one in their right mind would claim that the last few weeks have gone well for Elno or twitter.

The fact that you continue to pretend that you have any idea what you are talking about makes this all the more entertaining. Please keep posting because we're all enjoying this sojourn from your regular duty of pretending Russia is attaining its stated objective of ridding Ukraine of woke nazis.

---

Let's get real, you have an awfully heavy bias here, as reflected by your immature and emotional tone, as in the use of "Elno" in reference to Musk. Your input would benefit from a bit more objectivity and less emotional impulsiveness, try to rein in your EDS here...

I am also "one degree removed" from the trenches here, one of my best friends (we actually met at a Cal game in the student section way back) being a CEO who has had them as his biggest client for years, and his company is just a few blocks down on Market. And he's not my only source.

As to Ukraine, you probably weren't able to place Kiev on a map before last year, or name a few other cities in Ukraine before 2020.

Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

Cal88 said:

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calbear93 said:

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Cal88 said:

---

Musk wants to change the culture at Twitter, and reinstill a tech culture there. The best coders and engineers are driven workaholics. What someone wrote a few posts above about workaholics generally being inefficient and promoting a toxic workspace is largely true in managerial positions, but it isn`t true among technical staff. The best of these have virtually no life outside their work, and that`s perfectly alright with them.

As well, among this tech culture, there are far more workers who don`t like being constrained by a pervasive woke culture than people who are liberal zealots. There are a lot more James Damores (guy who was fired from Google for writing a long memo on gender dynamics in the tech workplace) in the top engineering circles than Yao Yues (woman who was recently fired from Twitter), so Twitter will be a magnet for the former types.

The other issue is that many big tech companies, especially those that are public content-driven spaces like Twitter, FB or Reddit have become excessively politicized, stifling and distorting free speech with bots, dynamic bans and algorithm manipulation. The political culture that has been enshrined into Twitter is hostile to someone like Musk who is more of a freethinking independent, so what we`re seeing now is him turning Twitter into a culture that is more like that of a normal, less politicized tech-driven startup from the 90s or 00s.

---

Couple of things you are missing. If you are a workaholics, top tier coder, why work at an oppressive culture at Twitter as opposed to overworking at Google? It isn't as if Twitter is some amazing platform or amazing coding opportunity.

Any do you think Twitter, FB or Reddit became politicized because of the leaders or because of the demands of the work force and investors?

---

What do you think constitutes an oppressive work environment is for a top coder? It`s overbearing HR commissars, passive aggressive managers who get on their case over language, or having to sit through sensitivity training seminars as a result of some perceived microaggression by a zoomer project mgr or assistant. Most coders identify a lot more with Musk than Vijaya Gadde or any of the Twitter mgrs who got fired.

The main reason Twitter, FB etc became politicized is because they are dominated by non-technical people from the Bay Area, who tend to be very liberal. These organizations have morphed from a culture of tech startups into something that is more like that of a liberal NGO.

Also, there has been a huge influx into the industry of liberal arts grad types who have gone to coding camps or night school to take advantage of high salaries. A few years ago I was building an app and looked to hire product mgrs, there were 24yo kids from NYU or Brown with BAs and a 6-mo coding camp who were asking for $125K, they had none of the fundamental technical skills to do the job and knew less about computer science than a 16yo future CS student. These workers tend to be excessively politicized, have a very high sense of entitlement and a relatively poor work ethic, whereas the culture at CS/engineering depts in academia is completely different - male-dominated, nose to the grindstone and not very politicized; not much of a life outside of work.

---

Just curious, how many coders at twitter have you spoken to? Because what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I'm hearing.

I've talked to a bunch and yet to hear a single person say that they were excited for Musk to take over the company (or that they knew of any other coder who was excited). People are specifically running for the doors because of what Elno is doing. My tiny company has already hired a few and is in talks with others and we hear the same thing over and over. Elno is toxic to Twitter's engineering culture.

You make baseless statements about coders not identifying with Gadde or other managers but you ignore that Musk is making engineers self-certify to FTC compliance and won't let people work from home (which was extremely popular among the developers).

---

What was your major at Cal, PEIS, Poli Sci? I am a graduate of the College of Engineering.

My first job out of college was programmer/analyst. I worked with several tech startups since, including one with the inventors of bit torrent technology, content delivery and storage solutions that ended up laying the foundation for the cloud structure.

My main circle of alumni friends with whom we chat almost every day are almost all in tech, group of almost all Cal alum guys including:
two CPOs (heads of product dvpt)
a math grad in BI/AI,
a network engineer,
a founder/CEO of a software service co with a staff of 500+ people,
etc

The group is having a ball watching the purge at Twitter and the meltdown at FTX. Some of these guys, as typical of maths or physics grads at top schools, are a little bit eccentric, and really dislike the recent cultural changes in corporate America and in the industry, mainly the influx in the industry of a lot of people with non tech backgrounds and questionable skills due to the rise in workforce demand, and the rise in woke culture, with non-tech mgmt and HR types butting into their work.

---

Lol, we never had any doubt that you are informed by your echo chamber of anti woke white men. They should go work for Elno so they can all fail together.

This also confirms you don't know anyone at Twitter and don't understand what's going on there.

As for credentials, I graduated with honors in EEC:S (Tau Beta Pi as well) and I was a TA my last 2 years at Cal and took a number of graduate courses in CS as well.

As I've stated again and again, my team includes a number of recent hires (all devs) from Twitter who have been recruiting their colleagues heavily. I am no longer a professional software developer, but I continue to work closely with them and understand the industry.

You continue to make baseless claims about what's going on there meanwhile article after article confirm what I've been telling y'all. It's not too hard for people in this thread to see that you are making stuff up and I'm not.

See here from yesterday (all after I made my posts):
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/tech/twitter-employees-ultimatum-deadline/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/media/twitter-exodus-reliable-sources/index.html

---

You're basically in a bigger echo chamber, one which includes CNN reporters like the ones you are quoting here as your source for what's happening at Twitter, reporters who are in the midst of Elon derangement syndrome (EDS), which seems to have replaced TDS.

...

Musk's main problem is not dealing with an alleged exodus of talented tech workers, most of the people being purged are deadweight. It is a much bigger challenge, that of taking on the cultural and political establishment that hates the fact that their favorite platform is no longer their highly regulated and regimented playground and echo chamber.

---

You have literally no basis for any statements you are making about twitter. You don't know a single person there and it appears that you don't understand tech. All you have is vague, irrelevant, uninformed and non-sensical political beliefs.

I'm not in an echo chamber, I'm reporting one degree removed from the front lines. I'm telling you what staff software engineers (and others) are telling me. Actual humans I've spoken to who worked at twitter (or did until they resigned post Elno).

You should be embarrassed by how wrong you've been but you continue to abase yourself. You have no idea what Elno could do to keep the "good" engineers and send the bad ones away. I'll give you some help though - it's not what he's been doing. As I predicted days ago, Elno allowing people to quit and receive severance would send all good employees running for the exits. They were already running before, but paying them to quite just accelerated things.

It's possible there are some good engineers left. Out of an org that large, I certainly don't have the connectivity to claim otherwise, but Elno has pissed away most of the talent any rational acquirer would want to keep. Now unlike most tech companies, I think twitter's brand and reach was the top asset - not their tech talent - but no one in their right mind would claim that the last few weeks have gone well for Elno or twitter.

The fact that you continue to pretend that you have any idea what you are talking about makes this all the more entertaining. Please keep posting because we're all enjoying this sojourn from your regular duty of pretending Russia is attaining its stated objective of ridding Ukraine of woke nazis.

---

Let's get real, you have an awfully heavy bias here, as reflected by your immature and emotional tone, as in the use of "Elno" in reference to Musk. Your input would benefit from a bit more objectivity and less emotional impulsiveness, try to rein in your EDS here...

I am also "one degree removed" from the trenches here, one of my best friends (we actually met at a Cal game in the student section way back) being a CEO who has had them as his biggest client for years, and his company is just a few blocks down on Market. And he's not my only source.

As to Ukraine, you probably weren't able to place Kiev on a map before last year, or name a few other cities in Ukraine before 2020.

---

weird nerds jumping in front of elon musk taking a bullet to protect him from valid criticism the simpsons apu pic.twitter.com/tztgplJOGz

— reactions (@reactjpg) May 10, 2021

You have yet to say anything of substance in this thread which has been supported by real world evidence. You have also yet to impeach anything I've said with any basis in fact.

The fact that you feel compelled to attack my tone because you have no substantive comebacks is apparent to all. This is looking like one of the worst acquisitions in history (and I thought Musk would eventually be smart enough to find a cheaper way out) but you continue to naively believe that Musk has a well thought out strategy here. He is literally cycling through twitter's prior failed strategies and hoping for better results while people are streaking for the exits (on Elno's dime). Your naive and uninformed views are quite entertaining, like watching clumsy panda videos.



So it's exactly like Ukraine, but you have chosen to white knight for Elno instead of Putin.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Musk wants to change the culture at Twitter, and reinstill a tech culture there. The best coders and engineers are driven workaholics. What someone wrote a few posts above about workaholics generally being inefficient and promoting a toxic workspace is largely true in managerial positions, but it isn`t true among technical staff. The best of these have virtually no life outside their work, and that`s perfectly alright with them.

As well, among this tech culture, there are far more workers who don`t like being constrained by a pervasive woke culture than people who are liberal zealots. There are a lot more James Damores (guy who was fired from Google for writing a long memo on gender dynamics in the tech workplace) in the top engineering circles than Yao Yues (woman who was recently fired from Twitter), so Twitter will be a magnet for the former types.

The other issue is that many big tech companies, especially those that are public content-driven spaces like Twitter, FB or Reddit have become excessively politicized, stifling and distorting free speech with bots, dynamic bans and algorithm manipulation. The political culture that has been enshrined into Twitter is hostile to someone like Musk who is more of a freethinking independent, so what we`re seeing now is him turning Twitter into a culture that is more like that of a normal, less politicized tech-driven startup from the 90s or 00s.

---

Couple of things you are missing. If you are a workaholics, top tier coder, why work at an oppressive culture at Twitter as opposed to overworking at Google? It isn't as if Twitter is some amazing platform or amazing coding opportunity.

Any do you think Twitter, FB or Reddit became politicized because of the leaders or because of the demands of the work force and investors?

---

What do you think constitutes an oppressive work environment is for a top coder? It`s overbearing HR commissars, passive aggressive managers who get on their case over language, or having to sit through sensitivity training seminars as a result of some perceived microaggression by a zoomer project mgr or assistant. Most coders identify a lot more with Musk than Vijaya Gadde or any of the Twitter mgrs who got fired.

The main reason Twitter, FB etc became politicized is because they are dominated by non-technical people from the Bay Area, who tend to be very liberal. These organizations have morphed from a culture of tech startups into something that is more like that of a liberal NGO.

Also, there has been a huge influx into the industry of liberal arts grad types who have gone to coding camps or night school to take advantage of high salaries. A few years ago I was building an app and looked to hire product mgrs, there were 24yo kids from NYU or Brown with BAs and a 6-mo coding camp who were asking for $125K, they had none of the fundamental technical skills to do the job and knew less about computer science than a 16yo future CS student. These workers tend to be excessively politicized, have a very high sense of entitlement and a relatively poor work ethic, whereas the culture at CS/engineering depts in academia is completely different - male-dominated, nose to the grindstone and not very politicized; not much of a life outside of work.

---

Just curious, how many coders at twitter have you spoken to? Because what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I'm hearing.

I've talked to a bunch and yet to hear a single person say that they were excited for Musk to take over the company (or that they knew of any other coder who was excited). People are specifically running for the doors because of what Elno is doing. My tiny company has already hired a few and is in talks with others and we hear the same thing over and over. Elno is toxic to Twitter's engineering culture.

You make baseless statements about coders not identifying with Gadde or other managers but you ignore that Musk is making engineers self-certify to FTC compliance and won't let people work from home (which was extremely popular among the developers).

---

What was your major at Cal, PEIS, Poli Sci? I am a graduate of the College of Engineering.

My first job out of college was programmer/analyst. I worked with several tech startups since, including one with the inventors of bit torrent technology, content delivery and storage solutions that ended up laying the foundation for the cloud structure.

My main circle of alumni friends with whom we chat almost every day are almost all in tech, group of almost all Cal alum guys including:
two CPOs (heads of product dvpt)
a math grad in BI/AI,
a network engineer,
a founder/CEO of a software service co with a staff of 500+ people,
etc

The group is having a ball watching the purge at Twitter and the meltdown at FTX. Some of these guys, as typical of maths or physics grads at top schools, are a little bit eccentric, and really dislike the recent cultural changes in corporate America and in the industry, mainly the influx in the industry of a lot of people with non tech backgrounds and questionable skills due to the rise in workforce demand, and the rise in woke culture, with non-tech mgmt and HR types butting into their work.

---

Lol, we never had any doubt that you are informed by your echo chamber of anti woke white men. They should go work for Elno so they can all fail together.

This also confirms you don't know anyone at Twitter and don't understand what's going on there.

As for credentials, I graduated with honors in EEC:S (Tau Beta Pi as well) and I was a TA my last 2 years at Cal and took a number of graduate courses in CS as well.

As I've stated again and again, my team includes a number of recent hires (all devs) from Twitter who have been recruiting their colleagues heavily. I am no longer a professional software developer, but I continue to work closely with them and understand the industry.

You continue to make baseless claims about what's going on there meanwhile article after article confirm what I've been telling y'all. It's not too hard for people in this thread to see that you are making stuff up and I'm not.

See here from yesterday (all after I made my posts):
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/tech/twitter-employees-ultimatum-deadline/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/media/twitter-exodus-reliable-sources/index.html

---

You're basically in a bigger echo chamber, one which includes CNN reporters like the ones you are quoting here as your source for what's happening at Twitter, reporters who are in the midst of Elon derangement syndrome (EDS), which seems to have replaced TDS.

...

Musk's main problem is not dealing with an alleged exodus of talented tech workers, most of the people being purged are deadweight. It is a much bigger challenge, that of taking on the cultural and political establishment that hates the fact that their favorite platform is no longer their highly regulated and regimented playground and echo chamber.

---

You have literally no basis for any statements you are making about twitter. You don't know a single person there and it appears that you don't understand tech. All you have is vague, irrelevant, uninformed and non-sensical political beliefs.

I'm not in an echo chamber, I'm reporting one degree removed from the front lines. I'm telling you what staff software engineers (and others) are telling me. Actual humans I've spoken to who worked at twitter (or did until they resigned post Elno).

You should be embarrassed by how wrong you've been but you continue to abase yourself. You have no idea what Elno could do to keep the "good" engineers and send the bad ones away. I'll give you some help though - it's not what he's been doing. As I predicted days ago, Elno allowing people to quit and receive severance would send all good employees running for the exits. They were already running before, but paying them to quite just accelerated things.

It's possible there are some good engineers left. Out of an org that large, I certainly don't have the connectivity to claim otherwise, but Elno has pissed away most of the talent any rational acquirer would want to keep. Now unlike most tech companies, I think twitter's brand and reach was the top asset - not their tech talent - but no one in their right mind would claim that the last few weeks have gone well for Elno or twitter.

The fact that you continue to pretend that you have any idea what you are talking about makes this all the more entertaining. Please keep posting because we're all enjoying this sojourn from your regular duty of pretending Russia is attaining its stated objective of ridding Ukraine of woke nazis.

---

Let's get real, you have an awfully heavy bias here, as reflected by your immature and emotional tone, as in the use of "Elno" in reference to Musk. Your input would benefit from a bit more objectivity and less emotional impulsiveness, try to rein in your EDS here...

I am also "one degree removed" from the trenches here, one of my best friends (we actually met at a Cal game in the student section way back) being a CEO who has had them as his biggest client for years, and his company is just a few blocks down on Market. And he's not my only source.

As to Ukraine, you probably weren't able to place Kiev on a map before last year, or name a few other cities in Ukraine before 2020.

---

weird nerds jumping in front of elon musk taking a bullet to protect him from valid criticism the simpsons apu pic.twitter.com/tztgplJOGz

— reactions (@reactjpg) May 10, 2021

You have yet to say anything of substance in this thread which has been supported by real world evidence. You have also yet to impeach anything I've said with any basis in fact.

The fact that you feel compelled to attack my tone because you have no substantive comebacks is apparent to all. This is looking like one of the worst acquisitions in history (and I thought Musk would eventually be smart enough to find a cheaper way out) but you continue to naively believe that Musk has a well thought out strategy here. He is literally cycling through twitter's prior failed strategies and hoping for better results while people are streaking for the exits (on Elno's dime). Your naive and uninformed views are quite entertaining, like watching clumsy panda videos.



So it's exactly like Ukraine, but you have chosen to white knight for Elno instead of Putin.

---

You're clearly a bit riled up here, adding cringy memes to bad personal attacks doesn't make them any better, it makes you the Kathy Griffin of Bear Insider.

The Twitter events are at the very least very entertaining, almost as entertaining as the FTX clown show. I do think Musk is a bit naive wrt the strength of the cultural-political alliance that has coalesced against him after he's taken over their favorite social media platform, perhaps that's his slightly autistic fearless side showing. But at the very least, he deserves a big kudos for having sidelined the culture that has banned the Babylon Bee from that platform, that is IMHO a great development.

Musk has earned the right to tinker with his new toy, perhaps the most expensive toy in history, by virtue of being the most successful businessman in modern American history. He's triumphed, among other major achievements. in an industry that has been largely forsaken in America, an industry with incredibly high barriers to entry, building a company that is more valuable than the largest German, Japanese and Chinese auto companies combined. He has created thousands of high-paying design and manufacturing jobs in the US. He is a true American hero, and the fact that his politics don't happen to align with those of the establishment shouldn't take this away from him.

"The higher the monkey climbs, the more he exposes his backside.

So too with the super rich.

Oxfam tells us that a mere 10 people now possess more wealth than the bottom 40% of humanity and that the richest 20 tycoons collectively own more than the entire GDP of sub-Saharan Africa."



The grotesque inequality embodied by Musk, Bezos and Zuckerberg is a threat to democracy


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/18/the-grotesque-inequality-embodied-by-musk-bezos-and-zuckerberg-is-a-threat-to-democracy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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calbear93 said:

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Cal88 said:

---

Musk wants to change the culture at Twitter, and reinstill a tech culture there. The best coders and engineers are driven workaholics. What someone wrote a few posts above about workaholics generally being inefficient and promoting a toxic workspace is largely true in managerial positions, but it isn`t true among technical staff. The best of these have virtually no life outside their work, and that`s perfectly alright with them.

As well, among this tech culture, there are far more workers who don`t like being constrained by a pervasive woke culture than people who are liberal zealots. There are a lot more James Damores (guy who was fired from Google for writing a long memo on gender dynamics in the tech workplace) in the top engineering circles than Yao Yues (woman who was recently fired from Twitter), so Twitter will be a magnet for the former types.

The other issue is that many big tech companies, especially those that are public content-driven spaces like Twitter, FB or Reddit have become excessively politicized, stifling and distorting free speech with bots, dynamic bans and algorithm manipulation. The political culture that has been enshrined into Twitter is hostile to someone like Musk who is more of a freethinking independent, so what we`re seeing now is him turning Twitter into a culture that is more like that of a normal, less politicized tech-driven startup from the 90s or 00s.

---

Couple of things you are missing. If you are a workaholics, top tier coder, why work at an oppressive culture at Twitter as opposed to overworking at Google? It isn't as if Twitter is some amazing platform or amazing coding opportunity.

Any do you think Twitter, FB or Reddit became politicized because of the leaders or because of the demands of the work force and investors?

---

What do you think constitutes an oppressive work environment is for a top coder? It`s overbearing HR commissars, passive aggressive managers who get on their case over language, or having to sit through sensitivity training seminars as a result of some perceived microaggression by a zoomer project mgr or assistant. Most coders identify a lot more with Musk than Vijaya Gadde or any of the Twitter mgrs who got fired.

The main reason Twitter, FB etc became politicized is because they are dominated by non-technical people from the Bay Area, who tend to be very liberal. These organizations have morphed from a culture of tech startups into something that is more like that of a liberal NGO.

Also, there has been a huge influx into the industry of liberal arts grad types who have gone to coding camps or night school to take advantage of high salaries. A few years ago I was building an app and looked to hire product mgrs, there were 24yo kids from NYU or Brown with BAs and a 6-mo coding camp who were asking for $125K, they had none of the fundamental technical skills to do the job and knew less about computer science than a 16yo future CS student. These workers tend to be excessively politicized, have a very high sense of entitlement and a relatively poor work ethic, whereas the culture at CS/engineering depts in academia is completely different - male-dominated, nose to the grindstone and not very politicized; not much of a life outside of work.

---

Just curious, how many coders at twitter have you spoken to? Because what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I'm hearing.

I've talked to a bunch and yet to hear a single person say that they were excited for Musk to take over the company (or that they knew of any other coder who was excited). People are specifically running for the doors because of what Elno is doing. My tiny company has already hired a few and is in talks with others and we hear the same thing over and over. Elno is toxic to Twitter's engineering culture.

You make baseless statements about coders not identifying with Gadde or other managers but you ignore that Musk is making engineers self-certify to FTC compliance and won't let people work from home (which was extremely popular among the developers).

---

What was your major at Cal, PEIS, Poli Sci? I am a graduate of the College of Engineering.

My first job out of college was programmer/analyst. I worked with several tech startups since, including one with the inventors of bit torrent technology, content delivery and storage solutions that ended up laying the foundation for the cloud structure.

My main circle of alumni friends with whom we chat almost every day are almost all in tech, group of almost all Cal alum guys including:
two CPOs (heads of product dvpt)
a math grad in BI/AI,
a network engineer,
a founder/CEO of a software service co with a staff of 500+ people,
etc

The group is having a ball watching the purge at Twitter and the meltdown at FTX. Some of these guys, as typical of maths or physics grads at top schools, are a little bit eccentric, and really dislike the recent cultural changes in corporate America and in the industry, mainly the influx in the industry of a lot of people with non tech backgrounds and questionable skills due to the rise in workforce demand, and the rise in woke culture, with non-tech mgmt and HR types butting into their work.

---

Lol, we never had any doubt that you are informed by your echo chamber of anti woke white men. They should go work for Elno so they can all fail together.

This also confirms you don't know anyone at Twitter and don't understand what's going on there.

As for credentials, I graduated with honors in EEC:S (Tau Beta Pi as well) and I was a TA my last 2 years at Cal and took a number of graduate courses in CS as well.

As I've stated again and again, my team includes a number of recent hires (all devs) from Twitter who have been recruiting their colleagues heavily. I am no longer a professional software developer, but I continue to work closely with them and understand the industry.

You continue to make baseless claims about what's going on there meanwhile article after article confirm what I've been telling y'all. It's not too hard for people in this thread to see that you are making stuff up and I'm not.

See here from yesterday (all after I made my posts):
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/tech/twitter-employees-ultimatum-deadline/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/media/twitter-exodus-reliable-sources/index.html

---

You're basically in a bigger echo chamber, one which includes CNN reporters like the ones you are quoting here as your source for what's happening at Twitter, reporters who are in the midst of Elon derangement syndrome (EDS), which seems to have replaced TDS.

...

Musk's main problem is not dealing with an alleged exodus of talented tech workers, most of the people being purged are deadweight. It is a much bigger challenge, that of taking on the cultural and political establishment that hates the fact that their favorite platform is no longer their highly regulated and regimented playground and echo chamber.

---

You have literally no basis for any statements you are making about twitter. You don't know a single person there and it appears that you don't understand tech. All you have is vague, irrelevant, uninformed and non-sensical political beliefs.

I'm not in an echo chamber, I'm reporting one degree removed from the front lines. I'm telling you what staff software engineers (and others) are telling me. Actual humans I've spoken to who worked at twitter (or did until they resigned post Elno).

You should be embarrassed by how wrong you've been but you continue to abase yourself. You have no idea what Elno could do to keep the "good" engineers and send the bad ones away. I'll give you some help though - it's not what he's been doing. As I predicted days ago, Elno allowing people to quit and receive severance would send all good employees running for the exits. They were already running before, but paying them to quite just accelerated things.

It's possible there are some good engineers left. Out of an org that large, I certainly don't have the connectivity to claim otherwise, but Elno has pissed away most of the talent any rational acquirer would want to keep. Now unlike most tech companies, I think twitter's brand and reach was the top asset - not their tech talent - but no one in their right mind would claim that the last few weeks have gone well for Elno or twitter.

The fact that you continue to pretend that you have any idea what you are talking about makes this all the more entertaining. Please keep posting because we're all enjoying this sojourn from your regular duty of pretending Russia is attaining its stated objective of ridding Ukraine of woke nazis.

---

Let's get real, you have an awfully heavy bias here, as reflected by your immature and emotional tone, as in the use of "Elno" in reference to Musk. Your input would benefit from a bit more objectivity and less emotional impulsiveness, try to rein in your EDS here...

I am also "one degree removed" from the trenches here, one of my best friends (we actually met at a Cal game in the student section way back) being a CEO who has had them as his biggest client for years, and his company is just a few blocks down on Market. And he's not my only source.

As to Ukraine, you probably weren't able to place Kiev on a map before last year, or name a few other cities in Ukraine before 2020.

---

weird nerds jumping in front of elon musk taking a bullet to protect him from valid criticism the simpsons apu pic.twitter.com/tztgplJOGz

— reactions (@reactjpg) May 10, 2021

You have yet to say anything of substance in this thread which has been supported by real world evidence. You have also yet to impeach anything I've said with any basis in fact.

The fact that you feel compelled to attack my tone because you have no substantive comebacks is apparent to all. This is looking like one of the worst acquisitions in history (and I thought Musk would eventually be smart enough to find a cheaper way out) but you continue to naively believe that Musk has a well thought out strategy here. He is literally cycling through twitter's prior failed strategies and hoping for better results while people are streaking for the exits (on Elno's dime). Your naive and uninformed views are quite entertaining, like watching clumsy panda videos.



So it's exactly like Ukraine, but you have chosen to white knight for Elno instead of Putin.

---

You're clearly a bit riled up here, adding cringy memes to bad personal attacks doesn't make them any better, it makes you the Kathy Griffin of Bear Insider.

The Twitter events are at the very least very entertaining, almost as entertaining as the FTX clown show. I do think Musk is a bit naive wrt the strength of the cultural-political alliance that has coalesced against him after he's taken over their favorite social media platform, perhaps that's his slightly autistic fearless side showing. But at the very least, he deserves a big kudos for having sidelined the culture that has banned the Babylon Bee from that platform, that is IMHO a great development.

Musk has earned the right to tinker with his new toy, perhaps the most expensive toy in history, by virtue of being the most successful businessman in modern American history. He's triumphed, among other major achievements. in an industry that has been largely forsaken in America, an industry with incredibly high barriers to entry, building a company that is more valuable than the largest German, Japanese and Chinese auto companies combined. He has created thousands of high-paying design and manufacturing jobs in the US. He is a true American hero, and the fact that his politics don't happen to align with those of the establishment shouldn't take this away from him.

---

This is just gibberish. No one is talking about Tesla and referencing his success with EVs isn't going to make your naive political BS with respect to Twitter any more relevant.

With every post you confirm your ignorance. Elno isn't fixing a cultural problem at Twitter, he's causing everyone with any value to leave. It's a lot like Putin in Russia, but without people "falling" out of windows. He's actually paying them to leave. I think he may actually be naive enough to have thought that offering people severance if they didn't want to do the thing that almost no one would want to do - work extra hard for below market comp at a failing company with poor morale - but no one else besides you seems to be that naive.

I have no doubt you will continue to argue from your baseless origin because if you've proven one thing over and over again at BI (one fake magazine cover at a time) it's that there is no bad argument that you won't continue to disingenuously double down on.

The only emotion you might be sensing is my enjoyment of you abasing yourself repeatedly.

Breaking news: My cat ChuChu just got hired as an engineer at Twitter.

Now I can live off his $65,000/year salary.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Cal88 said:

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calbear93 said:

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Cal88 said:

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Musk wants to change the culture at Twitter, and reinstill a tech culture there. The best coders and engineers are driven workaholics. What someone wrote a few posts above about workaholics generally being inefficient and promoting a toxic workspace is largely true in managerial positions, but it isn`t true among technical staff. The best of these have virtually no life outside their work, and that`s perfectly alright with them.

As well, among this tech culture, there are far more workers who don`t like being constrained by a pervasive woke culture than people who are liberal zealots. There are a lot more James Damores (guy who was fired from Google for writing a long memo on gender dynamics in the tech workplace) in the top engineering circles than Yao Yues (woman who was recently fired from Twitter), so Twitter will be a magnet for the former types.

The other issue is that many big tech companies, especially those that are public content-driven spaces like Twitter, FB or Reddit have become excessively politicized, stifling and distorting free speech with bots, dynamic bans and algorithm manipulation. The political culture that has been enshrined into Twitter is hostile to someone like Musk who is more of a freethinking independent, so what we`re seeing now is him turning Twitter into a culture that is more like that of a normal, less politicized tech-driven startup from the 90s or 00s.

---

Couple of things you are missing. If you are a workaholics, top tier coder, why work at an oppressive culture at Twitter as opposed to overworking at Google? It isn't as if Twitter is some amazing platform or amazing coding opportunity.

Any do you think Twitter, FB or Reddit became politicized because of the leaders or because of the demands of the work force and investors?

---

What do you think constitutes an oppressive work environment is for a top coder? It`s overbearing HR commissars, passive aggressive managers who get on their case over language, or having to sit through sensitivity training seminars as a result of some perceived microaggression by a zoomer project mgr or assistant. Most coders identify a lot more with Musk than Vijaya Gadde or any of the Twitter mgrs who got fired.

The main reason Twitter, FB etc became politicized is because they are dominated by non-technical people from the Bay Area, who tend to be very liberal. These organizations have morphed from a culture of tech startups into something that is more like that of a liberal NGO.

Also, there has been a huge influx into the industry of liberal arts grad types who have gone to coding camps or night school to take advantage of high salaries. A few years ago I was building an app and looked to hire product mgrs, there were 24yo kids from NYU or Brown with BAs and a 6-mo coding camp who were asking for $125K, they had none of the fundamental technical skills to do the job and knew less about computer science than a 16yo future CS student. These workers tend to be excessively politicized, have a very high sense of entitlement and a relatively poor work ethic, whereas the culture at CS/engineering depts in academia is completely different - male-dominated, nose to the grindstone and not very politicized; not much of a life outside of work.

---

Just curious, how many coders at twitter have you spoken to? Because what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I'm hearing.

I've talked to a bunch and yet to hear a single person say that they were excited for Musk to take over the company (or that they knew of any other coder who was excited). People are specifically running for the doors because of what Elno is doing. My tiny company has already hired a few and is in talks with others and we hear the same thing over and over. Elno is toxic to Twitter's engineering culture.

You make baseless statements about coders not identifying with Gadde or other managers but you ignore that Musk is making engineers self-certify to FTC compliance and won't let people work from home (which was extremely popular among the developers).

---

What was your major at Cal, PEIS, Poli Sci? I am a graduate of the College of Engineering.

My first job out of college was programmer/analyst. I worked with several tech startups since, including one with the inventors of bit torrent technology, content delivery and storage solutions that ended up laying the foundation for the cloud structure.

My main circle of alumni friends with whom we chat almost every day are almost all in tech, group of almost all Cal alum guys including:
two CPOs (heads of product dvpt)
a math grad in BI/AI,
a network engineer,
a founder/CEO of a software service co with a staff of 500+ people,
etc

The group is having a ball watching the purge at Twitter and the meltdown at FTX. Some of these guys, as typical of maths or physics grads at top schools, are a little bit eccentric, and really dislike the recent cultural changes in corporate America and in the industry, mainly the influx in the industry of a lot of people with non tech backgrounds and questionable skills due to the rise in workforce demand, and the rise in woke culture, with non-tech mgmt and HR types butting into their work.

---

Lol, we never had any doubt that you are informed by your echo chamber of anti woke white men. They should go work for Elno so they can all fail together.

This also confirms you don't know anyone at Twitter and don't understand what's going on there.

As for credentials, I graduated with honors in EEC:S (Tau Beta Pi as well) and I was a TA my last 2 years at Cal and took a number of graduate courses in CS as well.

As I've stated again and again, my team includes a number of recent hires (all devs) from Twitter who have been recruiting their colleagues heavily. I am no longer a professional software developer, but I continue to work closely with them and understand the industry.

You continue to make baseless claims about what's going on there meanwhile article after article confirm what I've been telling y'all. It's not too hard for people in this thread to see that you are making stuff up and I'm not.

See here from yesterday (all after I made my posts):
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/tech/twitter-employees-ultimatum-deadline/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/media/twitter-exodus-reliable-sources/index.html

---

You're basically in a bigger echo chamber, one which includes CNN reporters like the ones you are quoting here as your source for what's happening at Twitter, reporters who are in the midst of Elon derangement syndrome (EDS), which seems to have replaced TDS.

...

Musk's main problem is not dealing with an alleged exodus of talented tech workers, most of the people being purged are deadweight. It is a much bigger challenge, that of taking on the cultural and political establishment that hates the fact that their favorite platform is no longer their highly regulated and regimented playground and echo chamber.

---

You have literally no basis for any statements you are making about twitter. You don't know a single person there and it appears that you don't understand tech. All you have is vague, irrelevant, uninformed and non-sensical political beliefs.

I'm not in an echo chamber, I'm reporting one degree removed from the front lines. I'm telling you what staff software engineers (and others) are telling me. Actual humans I've spoken to who worked at twitter (or did until they resigned post Elno).

You should be embarrassed by how wrong you've been but you continue to abase yourself. You have no idea what Elno could do to keep the "good" engineers and send the bad ones away. I'll give you some help though - it's not what he's been doing. As I predicted days ago, Elno allowing people to quit and receive severance would send all good employees running for the exits. They were already running before, but paying them to quite just accelerated things.

It's possible there are some good engineers left. Out of an org that large, I certainly don't have the connectivity to claim otherwise, but Elno has pissed away most of the talent any rational acquirer would want to keep. Now unlike most tech companies, I think twitter's brand and reach was the top asset - not their tech talent - but no one in their right mind would claim that the last few weeks have gone well for Elno or twitter.

The fact that you continue to pretend that you have any idea what you are talking about makes this all the more entertaining. Please keep posting because we're all enjoying this sojourn from your regular duty of pretending Russia is attaining its stated objective of ridding Ukraine of woke nazis.

---

Why are you arguing with someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

concordtom said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Let's assume (I don't necessarily agree with this assumption) all this is Elon is changing the culture and imposing cost cuts to what has been an historically unprofitable company that underperforms. He is taking a sledgehammer approach, rather than using a scapel, in a way that is alienating users and ad customers.

---

If it was so unprofitable and in need of sledgehammer changes, why on earth did he buy it for $44B?????
Ooops!

This could be one of business histories great lessons, just as his other ventures are but for the opposite direction.

---

Great point, Tom. Elmo paid $44 billion. Is that the valuation before his involvement or is this a vanity project?

I tend to think it's a vanity project, which makes all the talk of productivity and profitability irrelevant.

Elmo wants to change what Twitter is. He's just another ****-poster except when he gets mad at the rules he can say, "I'm going to buy this company and change the rules". And that's what he did.
Life in the oligarchy. Tax the rich.

concordtom said:

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dajo9 said:

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concordtom said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Let's assume (I don't necessarily agree with this assumption) all this is Elon is changing the culture and imposing cost cuts to what has been an historically unprofitable company that underperforms. He is taking a sledgehammer approach, rather than using a scapel, in a way that is alienating users and ad customers.

---

If it was so unprofitable and in need of sledgehammer changes, why on earth did he buy it for $44B?????
Ooops!

This could be one of business histories great lessons, just as his other ventures are but for the opposite direction.

---

Great point, Tom. Elmo paid $44 billion. Is that the valuation before his involvement or is this a vanity project?

I tend to think it's a vanity project, which makes all the talk of productivity and profitability irrelevant.

Elmo wants to change what Twitter is. He's just another ****-poster except when he gets mad at the rules he can say, "I'm going to buy this company and change the rules". And that's what he did.
Life in the oligarchy. Tax the rich.

---

He's a creative problem solver, an engineer. A seriously brilliant engineer worthy of much praise and admiration, not only for his forward-looking solutions to broad-scale problems, but also for his passion, his drive.

But now he's trying to engineer society in a way that is not providing attractive better options, but he's fighting humanity in an unproductive way. Mankind can be like an army of mindless orks, death by a thousand paper cuts. We've seen man be irrational and irresponsible. He has, perhaps, too much faith in us. This is one battle I don't think he's going to win on.

---

I don't think it's about humanity. I think it's about politics.

One thing that is obvious now is that it was never about free speech.