So, 3/4s of the day?

GoOskie said:

---

So, 3/4s of the day?

---

Yeah, they gotta sleep 6-8 hours a day. Not sure how to factor in their dreams though.

Olympics 100m winners list: Know the champions


https://olympics.com/en/news/olympics-100-metres-winners-list-men-women-gold-medals-champions

*My first awareness of the Men's Gold Medal winner was Bob Hayes (1964), later a HOF Dallas Cowboy. Hayes is the only athlete to win both an Olympic gold medal and a Super Bowl ring.

bearister said:

---

Olympics 100m winners list: Know the champions


https://olympics.com/en/news/olympics-100-metres-winners-list-men-women-gold-medals-champions

*My first awareness of the Men's Gold Medal winner was Bob Hayes (1964), later a HOF Dallas Cowboy. Hayes is the only athlete to win both an Olympic gold medal and a Super Bowl ring.

---

Closer to home, Michael Carter nose tackle for the San Francisco 49er's won 3 SUPER BOWLS with the Niners and won a SILVER MEDAL in the shot put in the 1984 LA Summer Olympics.

He also holds the National High School Record in the Shot Put from 1979, when he threw 81-03.50 at the Golden West Invitational in Sacramento while competing for his high school out of Dallas, Texas.

He shattered the previous mark by NINE FEET.

This record may never be broken in our lifetime.

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_avif,q_auto:eco,dpr_2/rockcms/2024-08/240804-olympics-noah-lyles-wm-245p-f02755.jpg

I realize it's the torso/sternum but sure looks like Thompson won from this angle.

DiabloWags said:

---

Here is what 5/1000th's of a second looks like.

For non-track and field afficionados . . . it's not the foot or head that needs to cross first.
It's the chest.

---

Epic race: I believe only 12/100 of a second separated first place from last place. Lyles was in last place at 30 m. (and I think also at 40)... and it didn't appear to have to do with reaction time out of the blocks, he just doesn't accelerate quite as fast as the others, but has a higher top end (which is why he is likely also to win the 200)

bearister said:

---

Olympics 100m winners list: Know the champions


https://olympics.com/en/news/olympics-100-metres-winners-list-men-women-gold-medals-champions

*My first awareness of the Men's Gold Medal winner was Bob Hayes (1964), later a HOF Dallas Cowboy. Hayes is the only athlete to win both an Olympic gold medal and a Super Bowl ring.

---

Speaking of Bob Hayes, seeing the Jamaican, Kishane Thompson, who got the silver today... he has far more of a football body than the other competitors. Lots more to playing football than size and speed, but I can't help wondering how he might fare on the gridiron.

GoOskie said:

---

Do right wingers constantly think of male genitalia ALL DAY? movielover, please tell us if true and why you do so. oskie003, can you chime in why?

---

Please don't forget this in November... pic.twitter.com/oakoArVdcF

— John LeFevre (@JohnLeFevre) August 4, 2024

concordtom said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Men's 100m Final field set.
All 3 Americans are in.

Kerley, Bednarek, Lyles.

Jamaicans Thompson and Seville look fast. 9.80 and 9.81

12: 50 PM PST

---

Looks like Seville will take the gold in 9.70 range.

---

Looks like Seville finished last.

---

He dominated his semi heat, winning in 9.81s while easing off in the last stretch, so it looked like he could definitely go under 9.8. He's young and fairly raw, based on his semifinal run, he clearly underperformed in the final.

concordtom said:

---

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_avif,q_auto:eco,dpr_2/rockcms/2024-08/240804-olympics-noah-lyles-wm-245p-f02755.jpg

I realize it's the torso/sternum but sure looks like Thompson won from this angle.

---

Ummm.... no.
Interesting time lapse.
But that's probably the single worst "angle" you could ever pick to decide a race on the track.

Big C said:

---

bearister said:

---

Olympics 100m winners list: Know the champions


https://olympics.com/en/news/olympics-100-metres-winners-list-men-women-gold-medals-champions

*My first awareness of the Men's Gold Medal winner was Bob Hayes (1964), later a HOF Dallas Cowboy. Hayes is the only athlete to win both an Olympic gold medal and a Super Bowl ring.

---

Speaking of Bob Hayes, seeing the Jamaican, Kishane Thompson, who got the silver today... he has far more of a football body than the other competitors. Lots more to playing football than size and speed, but I can't help wondering how he might fare on the gridiron.

---

You might want to ask 110m high hurdler Grant Halloway the same question.
He ran 13.01 in his semi yesterday.

DiabloWags said:

---

concordtom said:

---

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_avif,q_auto:eco,dpr_2/rockcms/2024-08/240804-olympics-noah-lyles-wm-245p-f02755.jpg

I realize it's the torso/sternum but sure looks like Thompson won from this angle.

---

Ummm.... no.
Interesting time lapse.
But that's probably the single worst "angle" you could ever pick to decide a race on the track.

---

Yeah, but at least I got you to click and look. It is, indeed, an interesting photo! I'm glad you got to see and enjoy it.

dimitrig said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Men's 100m Final field set.
All 3 Americans are in.

Kerley, Bednarek, Lyles.

Jamaicans Thompson and Seville look fast. 9.80 and 9.81

12: 50 PM PST

---

Looks like Seville will take the gold in 9.70 range.

---

Looks like Seville finished last.

---

About as accurate as his other takes

---

I hope he didn't bet a bunch of alcohol on it like he is prone to do

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

And that is exactly the important distinction I was making between Ledecky and this boxer when an angry old Antioch man said, " I see that nothing's changed here. Oski is still talking out of both sides of his ass.".

Folks get too emotional and forget to use logic. One person cries about his off topic Olympic post when folks discuss controversial issues at the Olympics even though there is an entire Olympic sports board while some folks cry because being critical of the transgender movement is mean. It is ridiculous.

dimitrig said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Men's 100m Final field set.
All 3 Americans are in.

Kerley, Bednarek, Lyles.

Jamaicans Thompson and Seville look fast. 9.80 and 9.81

12: 50 PM PST

---

Looks like Seville will take the gold in 9.70 range.

---

Looks like Seville finished last.

---

About as accurate as his other takes

---

Don't confuse unpopular opinions with inaccurate opinions.

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

I knew the IBA tests were real because Khelif had the opportunity to appeal the results but chose not to. The reason the IBA did not publish the content of the test and only the result is that they are bound by confidentiality clauses.

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

I knew the IBA tests were real because Khelif had the opportunity to appeal the results but chose not to. The reason the IBA did not publish the content of the test and only the result is that they are bound by confidentiality clauses.

---

When I was young I was taught there were 2 genders. When did you guys change that?

dajo9 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

I knew the IBA tests were real because Khelif had the opportunity to appeal the results but chose not to. The reason the IBA did not publish the content of the test and only the result is that they are bound by confidentiality clauses.

---

When I was young I was taught there were 2 genders. When did you guys change that?

---

We all know that science produces anomalies, such as a blue lobster. We should be accepting of genetic defects, but we shouldn't allow someone with xy chromosomes to play women's sports.

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

And that is exactly the important distinction I was making between Ledecky and this boxer when an angry old Antioch man said, " I see that nothing's changed here. Oski is still talking out of both sides of his ass.".

---

I just found the whole Ledecky thing funny, because people like Ian Miles Cheong and their followers are constantly going on about how they can look at this or that picture of a person and can "tell" that the woman is really a man (or trans or whatever). Only in this case he picked a very famous swimmer who everyone knows is a woman, and a majority of his fans still thought she was a man.

Goes to show that you need real evidence and not this hyped-up crap.

---

I struggle with this. I am against a person who had been a man, competed against men, and suddenly changing genders to a woman and competing against women to be inherently destructive to women overall.

But in the case of Khelif, she was born a female, has always had female reproductive organs, was raised as a female, always competed as a female. Yes, she has XY chromosome, but it is not a matter of choice for her gender. She may have advantages, but so does a person who has the genes to be stronger, taller, etc.

I think she is being mistreated and bullied. This was not her choice, and she has always been a female.

---

Exactly. What if some guy is 8 feet tall and 1200 pounds (The Hulk's size) by some genetic circumstance. Do we ban him from wrestling or boxing? Should we? What are the criteria exactly?

oski003 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

And that is exactly the important distinction I was making between Ledecky and this boxer when an angry old Antioch man said, " I see that nothing's changed here. Oski is still talking out of both sides of his ass.".

---

I just found the whole Ledecky thing funny, because people like Ian Miles Cheong and their followers are constantly going on about how they can look at this or that picture of a person and can "tell" that the woman is really a man (or trans or whatever). Only in this case he picked a very famous swimmer who everyone knows is a woman, and a majority of his fans still thought she was a man.

Goes to show that you need real evidence and not this hyped-up crap.

---

I struggle with this. I am against a person who had been a man, competed against men, and suddenly changing genders to a woman and competing against women to be inherently destructive to women overall.

But in the case of Khelif, she was born a female, has always had female reproductive organs, was raised as a female, always competed as a female. Yes, she has XY chromosome, but it is not a matter of choice for her gender. She may have advantages, but so does a person who has the genes to be stronger, taller, etc.

I think she is being mistreated and bullied. This was not her choice, and she has always been a female.

---

Exactly. What if some guy is 8 feet tall and 1200 pounds (The Hulk's size) by some genetic circumstance. Do we ban him from wrestling or boxing? Should we? What are the criteria exactly?

---

We have a sports category for people with xy chromosomes: male. They should compete there. They can also live long healthy lives. We haven't really had to deal with giantism dangerously affecting sports. If it actually does, we may need to address it.

---

What evidence is there that Khelif is a danger to other participants?

Added the word unfair. Fyi, an 8 ft tall 1200 pound Hulk sounds dangerous (and also unfair).

oski003 said:

---

Added the word unfair. Fyi, an 8 ft tall 1200 pound Hulk sounds dangerous (and also unfair).

---

I think it would be dangerous and unfair to have her compete against men. Don't you? She doesn't have the same testosterone or strength as a man and likely has female sexual characteristics. She may even be on female HRT.

I mean you can just exclude people like her from competing at all but that's not really cool. She looks like a woman and competes on a level playing field with women. What exactly is the problem?

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

And that is exactly the important distinction I was making between Ledecky and this boxer when an angry old Antioch man said, " I see that nothing's changed here. Oski is still talking out of both sides of his ass.".

---

I just found the whole Ledecky thing funny, because people like Ian Miles Cheong and their followers are constantly going on about how they can look at this or that picture of a person and can "tell" that the woman is really a man (or trans or whatever). Only in this case he picked a very famous swimmer who everyone knows is a woman, and a majority of his fans still thought she was a man.

Goes to show that you need real evidence and not this hyped-up crap.

---

I struggle with this. I am against a person who had been a man, competed against men, and suddenly changing genders to a woman and competing against women to be inherently destructive to women overall.

But in the case of Khelif, she was born a female, has always had female reproductive organs, was raised as a female, always competed as a female. Yes, she has XY chromosome, but it is not a matter of choice for her gender. She may have advantages, but so does a person who has the genes to be stronger, taller, etc.

I think she is being mistreated and bullied. This was not her choice, and she has always been a female.

---

I find the people who comment on stories or on Twitter and call Khelif "he" or "it" pretty abhorrent. She has clearly always lived as a woman and identified as a woman. It's no skin off your nose to call her by the pronouns she uses. Calling her a "man" would also be inaccurate. Physically speaking, she's not a man; assuming the XY chromosome story is true, she's kind of both man and woman and has physical traits of both. This would be a person who you legitimately cannot easily classify by sex or gender. Leaving sports aside, why not just let such a person live as the gender they most closely identify with?

As to the issue of women's athletics: again, I really don't know. I can imagine that in this kind of intersex scenario there can be a wide variety of outcomes in how much the different hormones affect the body. One thing I will say is that I find it kind of confounding that the IOC apparently didn't have any kind of gender/sex testing in place for this year's Olympics. Other events did, but because the IBA got stripped of jurisdiction and the IOC took over, they had nothing else in place for boxing. Whether you're testing chromosomes or testosterone or something, you probably need some kind of standard. I criticized the IBA for being shady and lacking transparency, but here it applies to the IOC too. If the rules are unclear, how can you argue them?

I know they did testosterone testing before (revealed by the Caster Semenya controversy), but removed it this year? Khelif would have passed such a test before, which tells me that her participation in Tokyo was probably safe enough. But now with no testing, how can you know? Seems like a big mess.

dimitrig said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Added the word unfair. Fyi, an 8 ft tall 1200 pound Hulk sounds dangerous (and also unfair).

---

I think it would be dangerous and unfair to have her compete against men. Don't you? She doesn't have the same testosterone or strength as a man and likely has female sexual characteristics. She may even be on female HRT.

I mean you can just exclude people like her from competing at all but that's not really cool. She looks like a woman and competes on a level playing field with women. What exactly is the problem?

---

As you touched upon above, she doesn't have to compete against men. It is her choice. She doesn't appear to compete on an even playing field with women. She is one of the world's top "female" boxers and has lost 5 official matches ever, to go along with 50+ victories. She just had an opponent quit her match because she punched too hard.

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

You're also wrong about this, the IBA test that failed Khelif was not based on elevated testosterone levels, which implies that she did fail the XY chromozone test.

---

I don't think I'm wrong about the IBA failing to disclose the nature of the test, though.

Again, I don't dismiss the possibility that she had XY chromosomes. I just don't think this evidence is solid.

---

Following up on this . . . looks like one independent journalist (who has pretty good credentials) claims to have seen the test results:

June 5, 2023, @IBA_Boxing sent letter to IOC @Olympics, attaching test results, saying Algeria boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.' Chinese Taipei boxer: also tested, same results. 3 Wire Sports has seen letter and tests https://t.co/VQkjkDo5Yk

— Alan Abrahamson (@alanabrahamson) August 3, 2024

That's better than the previous "just trust us bro" IBA claims, so I'm inclined to think the XY chromosome thing is real. Now, how should various athletic bodies handle such cases? I legitimately don't know. One thing I'll note is that the Olympics used to test for testosterone levels in women athletes (and Khelif would have passed this before), but this year apparently is not doing so? Seems like there needs to be some kind of standard here, even if they disagree with the IBA's methods.

---

And that is exactly the important distinction I was making between Ledecky and this boxer when an angry old Antioch man said, " I see that nothing's changed here. Oski is still talking out of both sides of his ass.".

---

I just found the whole Ledecky thing funny, because people like Ian Miles Cheong and their followers are constantly going on about how they can look at this or that picture of a person and can "tell" that the woman is really a man (or trans or whatever). Only in this case he picked a very famous swimmer who everyone knows is a woman, and a majority of his fans still thought she was a man.

Goes to show that you need real evidence and not this hyped-up crap.

---

I struggle with this. I am against a person who had been a man, competed against men, and suddenly changing genders to a woman and competing against women to be inherently destructive to women overall.

But in the case of Khelif, she was born a female, has always had female reproductive organs, was raised as a female, always competed as a female. Yes, she has XY chromosome, but it is not a matter of choice for her gender. She may have advantages, but so does a person who has the genes to be stronger, taller, etc.

I think she is being mistreated and bullied. This was not her choice, and she has always been a female.

---

I find the people who comment on stories or on Twitter and call Khelif "he" or "it" pretty abhorrent. She has clearly always lived as a woman and identified as a woman. It's no skin off your nose to call her by the pronouns she uses. Calling her a "man" would also be inaccurate. Physically speaking, she's not a man; assuming the XY chromosome story is true, she's kind of both man and woman and has physical traits of both. This would be a person who you legitimately cannot easily classify by sex or gender. Leaving sports aside, why not just let such a person live as the gender they most closely identify with?

As to the issue of women's athletics: again, I really don't know. I can imagine that in this kind of intersex scenario there can be a wide variety of outcomes in how much the different hormones affect the body. One thing I will say is that I find it kind of confounding that the IOC apparently didn't have any kind of gender/sex testing in place for this year's Olympics. Other events did, but because the IBA got stripped of jurisdiction and the IOC took over, they had nothing else in place for boxing. Whether you're testing chromosomes or testosterone or something, you probably need some kind of standard. I criticized the IBA for being shady and lacking transparency, but here it applies to the IOC too. If the rules are unclear, how can you argue them?

I know they did testosterone testing before (revealed by the Caster Semenya controversy), but removed it this year? Khelif would have passed such a test before, which tells me that her participation in Tokyo was probably safe enough. But now with no testing, how can you know? Seems like a big mess.

---

Exactly, the people calling her "he" or "it", they are the ones who always think it's cut and dried what constitutes male/female ("We asked her to define what a woman is and she hemmed and hawed... wokester!") and I'm pretty sure their criteria is going to be whether the person was born with a ***** or a vagina. I doubt they even know what a chromosome is.

EDIT: mildly interesting-but-illogical that ***** gets censored out, but vagina passes through (hint: starts with "p")

oski003 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Added the word unfair. Fyi, an 8 ft tall 1200 pound Hulk sounds dangerous (and also unfair).

---

I think it would be dangerous and unfair to have her compete against men. Don't you? She doesn't have the same testosterone or strength as a man and likely has female sexual characteristics. She may even be on female HRT.

I mean you can just exclude people like her from competing at all but that's not really cool. She looks like a woman and competes on a level playing field with women. What exactly is the problem?

---

As you touched upon above, she doesn't have to compete against men. It is her choice. She doesn't appear to compete on an even playing field with women. She is one of the world's top "female" boxers and has lost 5 official matches ever, to go along with 50+ victories. She just had an opponent quit her match because she punched too hard.

---

Her record on Wikipedia shows 43 wins and 9 losses. Where did you get your numbers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif

I'm no expert on boxing, but at a glance that seems like a pretty normal record for a boxer who can qualify for the Olympics.

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Added the word unfair. Fyi, an 8 ft tall 1200 pound Hulk sounds dangerous (and also unfair).

---

I think it would be dangerous and unfair to have her compete against men. Don't you? She doesn't have the same testosterone or strength as a man and likely has female sexual characteristics. She may even be on female HRT.

I mean you can just exclude people like her from competing at all but that's not really cool. She looks like a woman and competes on a level playing field with women. What exactly is the problem?

---

As you touched upon above, she doesn't have to compete against men. It is her choice. She doesn't appear to compete on an even playing field with women. She is one of the world's top "female" boxers and has lost 5 official matches ever, to go along with 50+ victories. She just had an opponent quit her match because she punched too hard.

---

Her record on Wikipedia shows 43 wins and 9 losses. Where did you get your numbers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif

I'm no expert on boxing, but at a glance that seems like a pretty normal record for a boxer who can qualify for the Olympics.

---

Which puts her in the top of the entire world and competing in the Olympics. As a matter of fact, she just made it to the semifinals. If she wins tomorrow, she goes to the gold medal match. She played soccer growing up and then switched to boxing. Perhaps she now has enough skill and technique to win gold.

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Added the word unfair. Fyi, an 8 ft tall 1200 pound Hulk sounds dangerous (and also unfair).

---

I think it would be dangerous and unfair to have her compete against men. Don't you? She doesn't have the same testosterone or strength as a man and likely has female sexual characteristics. She may even be on female HRT.

I mean you can just exclude people like her from competing at all but that's not really cool. She looks like a woman and competes on a level playing field with women. What exactly is the problem?

---

As you touched upon above, she doesn't have to compete against men. It is her choice. She doesn't appear to compete on an even playing field with women. She is one of the world's top "female" boxers and has lost 5 official matches ever, to go along with 50+ victories. She just had an opponent quit her match because she punched too hard.

---

Her record on Wikipedia shows 43 wins and 9 losses. Where did you get your numbers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif

I'm no expert on boxing, but at a glance that seems like a pretty normal record for a boxer who can qualify for the Olympics.

---

Which puts her in the top of the entire world and competing in the Olympics. As a matter of fact, she just made it to the semifinals. If she wins tomorrow, she goes to the gold medal match. She played soccer growing up and then switched to boxing. Perhaps she now has enough skill and technique to win gold.

---

Sure, obviously she's a top boxer in her class. That's why she's in the Olympics. I'm just saying that citing her record doesn't automatically prove she's on an uneven playing field. Other female boxers (presumably with XX chromosomes) have compiled similar records and are also at the Olympics. You need to make a different argument to prove Khelif doesn't belong.