Meanwhile in capital hill

121,612 Views | 1277 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by concordtom
concordtom
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Some really good stuff in here.
This is a good group. Thank you.

The BEST new thing being discussed in politics right now is the notion that a large segment of America has been RADICALIZED. I think that explains it best.

Remember after 9/11 how we used the notion to explain how some Muslims had become radicalized? Well, that's what has happened to the Trump-Q-"fundamentalists". They are not grounded in facts. They are radicalized.

And, yes, I think Biden has the right approach to reach out a hand to them to try and de-radicalize them. You can't fight them, isolate them, and push them further into their corner - they'd merely become MORE radical.
bearister
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"Americans, who are used to being winners, now look around and see a country that can't secure its own seat of government... that struggles to distribute a vaccine... that was cyber-looted by Russia... that was half a year late with a stimulus plan both sides wanted... that can't even orchestrate a peaceful transition of power.

Why it matters: This is weakness, not strength. The democracy that President-elect Biden will take over is tattered, archaic, precarious.

By the numbers: The consent of the governed lies at the heart of American democracy. But Biden will lack that fundamental authority.

40% of Americans and 80% of Trump voters say they believe Biden is not the legitimate winner of the 2020 election the greatest proportion of holdouts in the history of American polling.
145 members of Congress, including 7 Senators, voted to throw out Pennsylvania's Electoral College votes a move designed to hand victory to the loser of the election....

.... What's next: If Trump faces criminal prosecution as a civilian, expect the crisis to get worse. On the other hand, if he doesn't face criminal prosecution as a civilian, half the country will take that as a message that the president truly is above the law, and has broad impunity even when he incites an attempted insurrection." Felix Salmon, Axios
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concordtom
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Trump's meltdown will make Biden more powerful

Rick NewmanSenior Columnist
Thu, January 7, 2021, 12:32 PM PST

As he burns down Washington on his way out of town, President Trump is inadvertently making incoming President Joe Biden more powerful and boosting the odds Biden can fulfill his policy priorities during the next two years.

Trump's first gift to Biden was sabotaging the two Republican Senate campaigns in Georgia, where Democratic challengers won both seats in a stunning upset on Jan. 5. Trump kneecapped the Republican incumbents by confusing voters with his bogus claims of election fraud and attacking the state's Republican leaders. Even Trump allies blame him for tipping the balance in favor of Democrats.

Those two Democratic wins have seismic political implications because they gave Democrats a one-vote majority in the Senate and total control of Congress. That doesn't mean Biden will be able to pass anything he wants, but it disenfranchises the GOP and gives Dems control of the Senate agenda, which will dramatically change the type of legislation Congress can pass.

The Trump riots at the Capitol on Jan. 6 further empower Biden and his fellow Democrats. Trump's incitement of the rioters, his silence as they ransacked the Capitol and his expression of "love" for these domestic terrorists has fully fractured the Republican party. Many top Republicans, including Senate Majority Leader (for a few more days) Mitch McConnell and Vice President Mike Pence have essentially disowned Trump. A few others are calling for his removal. Aides are resigning and donors are disgusted. Trump's rapidly diminishing support now seems to be concentrated among some radical GOP legislators rapidly disgracing themselves and the ragtag seditionists now fleeing Washington.

Trump has moved so far out of the mainstream that in just a few days he shattered his own influence as a Republican power broker. "Biden's political capital is now more valuable," says Stefanie Miller, managing director at advisory firm FiscalNote Markets. "Republicans no longer have a path to being the party of no that we've seen in the past."

Opportunity for Democratic agenda
If Trump had held his grip on the party, even in retirement, most Congressional Republicans would have had to show fealty to him, in order to win his endorsement in reelection races and perhaps some funding from the political-action committee Trump has established. But Trump is suddenly so toxic his endorsement doesn't matter except to the most radical conservatives, and it might even harm some centrist Republicans. Vote-wise, this will split the GOP into essentially two parties: The radicals sticking with Trump's "America first" nativism, and more traditional Republicans who may revert to Reagan-era priorities of good government, stable institutions and fiscal conservatism.

This is an opportunity for Democrats to draw some Republican support for their legislative plans, which might enlarge the realm of the possible. Biden's first legislative push is likely to be further coronavirus relief spending, structured according to Biden's "build back better" recovery plan. Biden, for instance, wants up to $2 trillion in infrastructure spending during the next two years, including major investments in clean energy, more buy-America requirements, elder care, child care and racial justice. Such a catch-all plan would have had no chance with Republicans controlling the Senate. In the minority, Republicans can still gum up votes by using the filibuster and other technical maneuvers. But Republicans freed from Trumpism will have more freedom to vote like moderates, especially if Biden bills contain pork for their home states and districts.

With unified Republican opposition, Democrats would have to use the reconciliation process, which requires a simple majority vote rather than the 60 votes needed to bypass a filibuster. But the majority can only use reconciliation once per session, which would give a unified GOP veto power over anything not included in a reconciliation bill. But if Republicans are freelancing, Dems might be able to find 9 or 10 willing to support certain bills in exchange for something good for their constituents.

Consider health care. Biden wants to lower the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 60 and establish a new "public option," similar to Medicare, for people who can't get affordable coverage any other way. If Trump were still influential, he'd probably call any Republican supporting such ideas "socialists" or "extremists," scaring them into opposition. But some Republicans might think expanding health care options could help their constituents, especially amid a deadly pandemic. And Trump the disgraced radical might not influence their votes anymore. Dems could further woo Republicans with other concessions, making it possible to reach the 60-vote threshold with the bipartisan support that typically makes new laws less controversial.

To exploit the opening Trump has created, Democrats will need to stick with moderate proposals able to attract some conservative support and avoid trying to ram through liberal wish-list items like Medicare for all or the Green New Deal. They'll still need the support of liberal Democrats and have to be careful not to ignite a civil war in their own party between Bernie Sanders "progressives" and Biden moderates. At the same time, the political climate remains a powder keg with more incendiary developments possible in coming weeks. Trump might have another gift or two for Biden.
okaydo
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concordtom said:

Some really good stuff in here.
This is a good group. Thank you.

The BEST new thing being discussed in politics right now is the notion that a large segment of America has been RADICALIZED. I think that explains it best.

Remember after 9/11 how we used the notion to explain how some Muslims had become radicalized? Well, that's what has happened to the Trump-Q-"fundamentalists". They are not grounded in facts. They are radicalized.

And, yes, I think Biden has the right approach to reach out a hand to them to try and de-radicalize them. You can't fight them, isolate them, and push them further into their corner - they'd merely become MORE radical.

Obama tried to reach out to Republicans. I mean, he really, really made it a point that he was the president to all people, at least early on. And he was firmly rejected.

Biden is going to be seen as more illegitimate than Obama. And Obama was REALLY seen as being illegitimate.
concordtom
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Except that Obama was black and Biden is white.
I think you have to consider that as a significant factor for the opposition he faced. Biden is a former white Senator from the old guard, and may face better odds.
bearister
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MAGA mob rioters smeared their own feces in US Capitol

MAGA mob rioters smeared their own feces in US Capitol



https://mol.im/a/9126409





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concordtom
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going4roses said:


I've now seen 3 videos of the shooting from within 6 feet away and this is the one that shows the shooter. Add the 3 up and it shows a complete state of chaos, and restraint at the same time. I mean, it could have been so far worse.

This is what happens when you use dangerous language to whip up a crowd.

Trump, Mo Brooks, Giuliani, Trump Jr. and anyone else (Cruz? Hawley?) who used such language needs to face the appropriate punishment!
okaydo
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concordtom said:

Except that Obama was black and Biden is white.
I think you have to consider that as a significant factor for the opposition he faced. Biden is a former white Senator from the old guard, and may face better odds.

Biden is white and that is to his advantage, but many of the 74 million people who voted for Trump think he was elected illegally.

Sure, they also thought Obama was illegitimately elected as a "Kenyan."

But Obama was succeeding a person not many cared about.

Biden is succeeding somebody many feel passionate about.
concordtom
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concordtom
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concordtom
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This is the angle I like best.

Pelosi get the House to vote for impeachment just prior to Jan 20, so that it sits on the desk of the NEW Senate on Jan 21 and McConnell cannot curb the issue.

This forces the GOP Senators to make a historical vote on whether to support sedition or not.
This would act as a censure on the likes of Cruz and Hawley.

concordtom
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bearister
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" Biden is white and that is to his advantage, but many of the 74 million people who voted for Trump think he was elected illegally.."

tRump probably only got 64 million legitimate votes and that is why he is so p@issed....nothing makes a crook more psycho than for him to think he got out crooked.

....and in Hooverville they can't make up their minds whether it is a tRump betrayal or a Deepfake:

Donald Trump fans cry betrayal as he rebukes Capitol violence


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/trump-incites-anger-among-acolytes-let-down-by-lack-of-support?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other





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concordtom
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In case you missed it,
Jake Tapper phone interview yesterday with former Chief of Staff John Kelly:




"What happened on Capitol Hill yesterday is a direct result of his poisoning the minds of people with the lies and the frauds."

Would you vote to remove him from office?
"Yes, I would."
bearister
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Tom, in response to your query yesterday regarding why Pence didn't tell the rabble to stand down:

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concordtom
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Yeah, it just shows how out of touch I am with their delusion.
But, honestly? That would have been a fitting exclamation point on the Trump Presidency, and I would have thoroughly enjoyed it!

I mean, storming the Capitol was bad enough for Trump's political star - he's DONE!
But that, that would have spoken even to the last holdout Republican politico. He would be impeached already right now, and Pelosi would be President right now had they hanged Pence.
Complete and absolute rebuke and rejection of Trumpism is what that would have been.
concordtom
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How's this for a "deal"?

-GOP Republicans approve a vote for impeachment and installment of Pence as President.
-Pence agrees to not issue a pardon.
-Democrats agree to go after others Republicans for whatever they may (Cruz, Hawley, etc).

This allows Republicans to be broken from the spell of Trump - free to move forward with their party.
As someone on CNN just said of Republicans: "THEY WANT HIM GONE."

I don't think the GOP wants to continue with Trump. They should want to slay him as well. Here is their opportunity.
okaydo
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okaydo
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okaydo
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okaydo
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okaydo
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okaydo
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B.A. Bearacus
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BearlyCareAnymore
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B.A. Bearacus said:




As Seinfeld would say

That's a shame
BearForce2
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concordtom said:

Except that Obama was black and Biden is white.
I think you have to consider that as a significant factor for the opposition he faced. Biden is a former white Senator from the old guard, and may face better odds.

Obama is half black.
Biden thinks he's black but is not black enough.
The difference between a right wing conspiracy and the truth is about 20 months.
Unit2Sucks
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I love that after four years of absolute intolerance and disregard for minority party and any Americans who didn't align with Trump and the deplorables, and months of fomenting bloodlust culminating in the insurrection and attempts to execute the vice president, we are hearing these losers call for comity. Sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. After you've paid your debt to society and acknowledged everything you've done wrong we can talk about forgiveness but right now you losers haven't even begun to acknowledge your own culpability and misconduct.

There should be a non-political investigation by the DOJ into all of the criminal activity (my understanding is that this is ongoing) and there should be a broad bi-partisan congressional investigation. Or something like a Watergate Commission. We can't just brush this under the rug because their coup attempt has failed. We had to sit through 11 investigations for Benghazi because foreign actors killed 4 Americans. What we suffered over the past week was far worse and it was instigated by the President, Republican members of congress and a wide variety of other actors domestic and foreign. Way too soon to walk away from this.
BearForce2
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The difference between a right wing conspiracy and the truth is about 20 months.
B.A. Bearacus
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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Here's an interesting read from Politico about how it seemed on the inside when the Trumpsters stormed the Capitol. There are some accounts from reporters seated with the overflow congress members as well as others around the building and others outside. I have a somewhat more favorable view of the Capitol Police as it appears there was a pitched battle going on that was worse than it appeared from the videos I've seen. However, I was stunned to read that there are 2,000 officers in the Capitol Police force. Where were most of them? It seems like far more than they should need 99.9% of the time but when they were needed, they came up very small.

'Is This Really Happening?': A real-time account of the hours when rioters breached the Capitol and brought the government to a halt
dimitrig
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concordtom said:

going4roses said:


I've now seen 3 videos of the shooting from within 6 feet away and this is the one that shows the shooter. Add the 3 up and it shows a complete state of chaos, and restraint at the same time. I mean, it could have been so far worse.

This is what happens when you use dangerous language to whip up a crowd.

Trump, Mo Brooks, Giuliani, Trump Jr. and anyone else (Cruz? Hawley?) who used such language needs to face the appropriate punishment!

I still don't understand why the ARMED police on the same side of the door as the rioters didn't do anything and it was up to the officer on the other side of the door to take action.



bearister
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dimitrig
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bearister said:



Oops!
BearlyCareAnymore
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Here's an interesting read from Politico about how it seemed on the inside when the Trumpsters stormed the Capitol. There are some accounts from reporters seated with the overflow congress members as well as others around the building and others outside. I have a somewhat more favorable view of the Capitol Police as it appears there was a pitched battle going on that was worse than it appeared from the videos I've seen. However, I was stunned to read that there are 2,000 officers in the Capitol Police force. Where were most of them? It seems like far more than they should need 99.9% of the time but when they were needed, they came up very small.

'Is This Really Happening?': A real-time account of the hours when rioters breached the Capitol and brought the government to a halt
Those that were the last line of defense are heroes. It is near miraculous that they were able to hold off the mob and and evacuate people to safety. People shouldn't be fooled by the buffoons. There were people there to commit murder and they would have.

The selfie cop should be fired today. It should have already been announced that he is on unpaid leave pending an investigation. Those that removed the barriers also.

The guys who ultimately had to hold off the mob long enough to get people to safety should never have been put on that position. They are not equipped for what they did. A mob is never supposed to get that far.

The national guard was called in by Mike Pence who had no authority to do that. The Maryland national guard was called in by the Secretary of the Army who had no authority to do that. This is after the President and Secretary of the Defense refused to do so for over an hour and a half. There is significant evidence that the top of the normal chain of command was trying to let our country burn and others stepped in to stop that from happening.

Trump and the Secretary of Defense better hope they hid the evidence well.
going4roses
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okaydo said:





Examine every case /ticket he wrote and those under him .
How many life's has he ruined or destroyed or taken.

Now multiply that across the country
 
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