BeachedBear said:

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I'm a Warriors FAN, so I support Draymond and find ways to rationalize that. IF he was on another team, I'd probably dislike him. There seems to be almost one on every opposing team that matters.

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Ditto!

BearSD said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Then there are players like Durant. I thought he was special before he came to the Warriors. I thought he was specialler when he was on the Warriors - and a bit miffed when he went to Nets. However, I still follow him more than any other non-Warrior and still find ways to respect him (although I AM more critical of his non-W failings).

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KD is a great player. But, he wanted to be the undisputed leader of the team. He became disenchanted with the Warriors when he realized that was never going to be the case here.

There's a great video clip where Kerr is coaching Durant during a timeout and telling him to trust his teammates instead of only looking for his own shot -- you can see in the clip that KD didn't want to hear that message.

Steve Kerr talking to Kevin Durant about Michael Jordan and trusting his teammates might be the coolest coaching moment I’ve ever seen caught on camera. That was awesome. pic.twitter.com/homiSarSbV

— Mike Leslie (@MikeLeslieWFAA) May 25, 2018

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Great post.
It goes to show that KD is a better player than teammate, while Draymond, Klay, and Steph are better teammates than players. That is, they play as a TEAM.
It takes IQ to be a grea player. KD is probably the best of them all on talent alone. But Steph tops KD in titles for a variety of reasons. DG does, too!

Let's see if KD can get his Nets sh_t together next year before he becomes too old to do so.

Californium said:

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concordtom said:

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Californium said:

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Quote:

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If he adopted Steph's work ethic, his body would be younger, he'd jump higher, and he'd shoot better

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CT, this is the second post in which you have maligned Dray's work ethic. Do have any evidence for this? My only evidence for the contrary is that he is still able to compete at the HIGHEST level of basketball and that's without a lot of the god-given advantages many other top level pro's have. It's my guess that Dray is pretty hard working (maybe not Steph level, but who is?) or he wouldn't be playing at the level he is.

I suspect that you are letting your personal dislike of Dray and his style interfere with your critical thinking skills regarding his work ethic.

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No, I don't, other than him talking about drinking, previously heard.

Perhaps you are right!
Though, I wouldn't say it's affecting "critical thinking skills", just that I am biased and the bias is what you are hearing, not critical thinking.

It's true, I'm merely sharing my opinion.

I will very much credit Dray for lowering his temperature these past 2 games.
Now let's see if he can hit a jump shot Thursday!

And that floater bucket was very nice! And he made his 2 free throws. Thank you, dray

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Sorry, I don't think you understood me. I don't care if you don't like him, his play style, his affect or whatever. What I am saying is that he could be all those bad things you don't like and still be a hard worker. In fact almost every bit of evidence says that he IS a hard worker. Your dislike of other things about him caused you to say something with NO basis in fact that i can find. I was literally only objecting to your questioning his work ethic. The rest of it, as big C says, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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I'll agree with you.
You don't play in the NBA if you are NOT a hard worker.
I just want to see him keep on it to be even better.
And, like, you have to admit that I'm right in one sense, too. He has been having a sub-par (significantly so) Finals so far.

sycasey said:

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As an individual performer, KD is better than Steph. He can get his own shot in more ways and defend more positions.

As a guy who makes his teammates better, Steph is superior. We see the evidence in what's happened since they parted ways.

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Yep!!

And thus the subsequent quandary about how to rank all-time top players.
Westbrook has awesome stats, but he's an idiot.
Wilt was so dominant, but you've got to wonder about a number of things, which no doubt led to his not winning more than 2 titles.
KD is seriously one of the best talents all-time!
And Steph is a physical pip squeak compared to every other Top historical player, but he's had an amazing career.

You wanna know what's cool about this finals run?

The W's had the #2, 7, and 14 draft picks in the last 2 years. Wiseman, Kuminga, and moody. None of them are contributing.

That means that it's all because of the power of the big 3 and the front office. No lottery luck due to injury and gaming the system, as so many others have done (tank and "trust the process").

Top players:
Big 3
Wiggins: obtained thru a departing KD trade, via another trade. - anyone could've traded for.
Poole: #28 draft (low!) - anyone could've drafted.
Otto: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.
Payton: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.
Bjelica: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.
Iggy: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.

In fact, everyone else on the roster was a FA vet, low salary, which ANY team could have signed, too. Or a scrub newbie who could have been picked up by any other team, a la our two G-Leaguers Quindary and "cut next year".

It can take franchises years to recover from the departure of a superstar. This is how Golden State pivoted from loss to a gap year back to the Finals. Smart essay from @ramonashelburne, edited by @mbodmer: pic.twitter.com/mtz0qdLO5q

— Malika Andrews (@malika_andrews) May 31, 2022

And for an excellent read reviewing how W's turned Durant's decision to leave into Wiggins + Kuminga, read this article (and more via 3 other article references at the bottom of that page). Truly, it's a front office Coup on par with what Trump envisioned.

https://www.netsdaily.com/platform/amp/2022/6/1/23150060/how-kevin-durants-agreement-to-a-sign-and-trade-in-2019-benefited-warriors-and-nets

I'm carrying on on this theme, but the coaching staff and Big 3 deserve tremendous credit for revitalizing Wiggins' career.

Wiggins is not only the W's second best player right now, but also is forever going to be grateful for his new found success, national appreciation, and saved reputation. His life moving forward is forever changed.

He could have been known as a #1 draft pick burn out, the guy who never panned out as imagined. Now he's known as an all-star and (one more game!) a Finals Champion!

I mean, think about it: Wiggins 2022 vs any of James Worthy's years? What's the difference?

The Warriors also deserve credit for positively navigating the Covid vaccination issue with Wiggins. He could have been a non-player, gotten hung up on that. He was treated with respect by the staff and the Big3, and the blossoming media storm/pressure situation died off. Those types of things can kill teams (see Kyrie/Nets).

Per thought above:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/james-worthy-finals-stats

James Worthy averaged 22.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 3.3 assists in 34 games in the NBA Finals in his career.

Worthy DID have games of
40
36
33 (2x)
30
29 (2x)
28

Maybe Wiggins has NOT achieved that status yet, as he is averaging this playoff year:
21 games
34.4 minutes
16.4 points
7.6 rebounds
1.7 assists

And yet:

Andrew Wiggins this Finals:

— More PPG than Klay
— Leads both teams in rebounds
— Leads both teams in shots contested
— 2nd in blocks
— Holding Tatum to 37.5% shooting pic.twitter.com/zvK2eSWy7F

— StatMuse (@statmuse) June 14, 2022

Looking for a photo of the Warriors' "Big 5":

Theme song for today!



They should play this at Thrive City before the official pregame show, as everyone is arriving.

concordtom said:

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You wanna know what's cool about this finals run?

The W's had the #2, 7, and 14 draft picks in the last 2 years. Wiseman, Kuminga, and moody. None of them are contributing.

That means that it's all because of the power of the big 3 and the front office. No lottery luck due to injury and gaming the system, as so many others have done (tank and "trust the process").

Top players:
Big 3
Wiggins: obtained thru a departing KD trade, via another trade. - anyone could've traded for.
Poole: #28 draft (low!) - anyone could've drafted.
Otto: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.
Payton: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.
Bjelica: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.
Iggy: FA vet, low salary - anyone could've signed.

In fact, everyone else on the roster was a FA vet, low salary, which ANY team could have signed, too. Or a scrub newbie who could have been picked up by any other team, a la our two G-Leaguers Quindary and "cut next year".

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I believe Porter had offers to sign for one of the mid-level exceptions but chose to sign for less with GS (hoping for a bigger contract this offseason). Will be interesting to see if his gamble pays off.

sycasey said:

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As an individual performer, KD is better than Steph. He can get his own shot in more ways and defend more positions.

As a guy who makes his teammates better, Steph is superior. We see the evidence in what's happened since they parted ways.

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Let's not kid ourselves on how many times Steph is double-teamed compared to KD.... leaving KD "open".

philbert said:

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I believe Porter had offers to sign for one of the mid-level exceptions but chose to sign for less with GS (hoping for a bigger contract this offseason). Will be interesting to see if his gamble pays off.

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Good point.
But I have to equally give credit here to the W's big 5, plus LACOB, for creating a place that FA's WANT to come to.

So Celtics sold out on stopping curry

The 'make someone else beat you'

Well that didn't work

So what will Boston's strategy be this time?

25 years ago today, MJ played the legendary "Flu Game."

Stuart Scott's highlight will always be remembered 💯 pic.twitter.com/ZrFbggusLw

— SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) June 11, 2022

I ran into this video clip of Steve Kerr hitting Kukoc on the back with a bad pass in the Finals, Game 5.

BearForce2 said:

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25 years ago today, MJ played the legendary "Flu Game."

Stuart Scott's highlight will always be remembered 💯 pic.twitter.com/ZrFbggusLw

— SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) June 11, 2022

I ran into this video clip of Steve Kerr hitting Kukoc on the back with a bad pass in the Finals, Game 5.

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In the game after that one, game 6, Kerr hit the game winning shot, and the Bulls won the title.

concordtom said:

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Big C said:

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concordtom said:

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Big C said:

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concordtom said:

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Big C said:

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Californium said:

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Quote:

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If he adopted Steph's work ethic, his body would be younger, he'd jump higher, and he'd shoot better

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CT, this is the second post in which you have maligned Dray's work ethic. Do have any evidence for this? My only evidence for the contrary is that he is still able to compete at the HIGHEST level of basketball and that's without a lot of the god-given advantages many other top level pro's have. It's my guess that Dray is pretty hard working (maybe not Steph level, but who is?) or he wouldn't be playing at the level he is.

I suspect that you are letting your personal dislike of Dray and his style interfere with your critical thinking skills regarding his work ethic.

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Agree. Remember Draymond his senior year at MSU? Great player, but a little on the pudgy side. That wasn't a guy who could guard 4-5 positions. His first 3-4 years in the NBA, he worked his butt off and completely reworked his body.

Steph Curry works out at an insane level. You can be a really, really hard worker in the off-season and still fall short of that.

In terms of their personas, I prefer Draymond. He comes across to me as being super authentic. Steph, great, community-minded guy that he is, always seems to be working on his brand. Just my take.

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Yeah, no doubt he gets tons of credit for a sparkling career.
But he's still a bully. Always has been.

Barkley has said he's going to not work too much longer. Dray should slide into that chair fairly nicely. And to think, he never even threw anyone through a plate glass window at a midnight bar!

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Though I kinda felt like we had reached the agree-to-disagree point, I have to ask, in what way is he a "bully"?

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Pretty much in every way?

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I would expect more from you than a cop-out answer like the above. And since you wrote "pretty much in every way", you now need to provide multiple examples. And you should begin by providing your definition of "bully".

You seem to just not like Draymond Green. And you have that right. I just flat-out like him and I have that right. But if you're going to say he's a bully in pretty much every way, you should explain what you mean and provide examples. Or not: We're just sitting here bs-ing on a sports fan bulletin board. At least I'm not asking you to provide a link, lol.

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Oh, this is an easy one. And I'm sure I could provide links, but you've suggested it's not necessary.

I've watched EVERY W's game for the past 2 seasons except about 3 each season. Honestly - that's over 160 games of watching Draymond. Okay, not that many - he was injured...

1. He bullies referees. I don't think ANYONE has the free rein to challenge ref calls more than D.G. in the NBA. This stems back to his ejection from the Finals, which everyone agrees swung the entire championship. No Ref, no Commissioner, wants to go there again. And Draymond knows this, so he pushes it right up to the limit, time and time again. Most of the instances do not make highlight reels, so if you haven't watched every game, you'd miss a bunch of them.

2. He bullies opponents. There is such a thing as "taunting". You can't look at opponents after you dunk on them and rub it in. D.G. does this regularly, though not when he dunks, because it happens so infrequently, but when he makes an And-1 layup, or a block. Usually, he instantly turns toward the opponent and flexes, but then turns toward a teammate nearby and acts like he's directing his HOWL and FLEX at his teammate in celebration, rather than an opponent.

3. He bullies opponents II. He also is excessively physical. Well, now, let me slow down on this. EVERY championship team needs an edge, and Draymond BRINGS that edge. As I said above, this is a huge asset. But he does give hard cheap fouls now and then, and backs it up with words in their face. He rides the edge, and everyone knows it. Kerr cautions him, while appreciating him. Kerr would not disagree with what I'm saying here. He's a bully, and everyone needs a bully.

4. He bullies others in media - talks sh_t. Chuck is the same way. It's just the way some people are, personality wise. Stephen A Smith is this way, too. There is little gentile about these men. Brash, outspoken. If you cross them the wrong way, they are not afraid of talking sh_t about you publicly. Hard to trust people like that. In contrast, Steph and Klay.... have you ever heard them talk shi_t about others in the press? No, they just let their play do their talking.

5. He bullies teammates. Only one example needed here. "We won without you. Leave"

(unshortened video)

(shortened video)

(after the fact introduction of what all was said in the huddle)



There's a thesis out there that Our Favorite Big 3 REALLY want to win this year WITHOUT KD again, if only to validate their entire run and not allow it to be primarily because of KD.
You can be damned sure they are not going out without an incredible fight.
If it gets to Game 7, oh man - what a Game 7 that will be. Dray would be pulling out all the tricks of the trade (that he has left).

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ConcordTom, I believe this is a semantical thing. We have different definitions of "bullying". To me, a player can't "bully" the refs and a marginal all-star can't "bully" a teammate who's a year-in-year-out 1st team all-star. My definition of bullying in basketball would be more like what Michael Jordan would do/say to some of his teammates who were just struggling to be on the roster.

They don’t want you in Golden State. Come play in Brooklyn! #FakeTampering 🤣🤣🤣 https://t.co/Hc4cKBCF6d

— Joe Tsai (@joetsai1999) June 15, 2022

Fake Klay.

Fake Klay Thompson Sneaks Into NBA Finals (BANNED FOR LIFE)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2022/jun/16/nba-finals-game-6-golden-state-warriors-v-boston-celtics-live-latest-score

Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy:

Refs have been advised too many millions on Game 7 to pass up.


*21-0 run. Maybe game ain't fixed.

Warriors with 21 point run!

HoopDreams said:

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Warriors with 21 point run!

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Play by Play guy: "First 21-0 run in a Finals in 50 years."

Van Gundy: "That's a great play by Tatum."

That side Euro step by Tatum is laughable. A move you can't defend.

Nice half time lead, but players on both teams hunting for fouls

Just play the game

Rose called it right

Celtics crying too and Smart flopping every play

… while Warriors going for the kill shot

3 point shooting percentage differential.

Do the announcers ever say benefit of a missed 3 can be a long board to offense?

DRAYMONDDDDDD GREEN!

"Those arent warning shots. Those are KILL shots"

Jalen Rose

Hated his two behind the back attempted passes, but loved that last laser assist

DiabloWags said:

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DRAYMONDDDDDD GREEN!

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Curry hits a downtown 3 and says "put a ring on this finger"

Celtics slump off the court

Warriors were too impressed with themselves too early and let Boston back in the game

Jaylen and Horford not conceding but their "best player" Jason is MIA

HoopDreams said:

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Warriors were too impressed with themselves too early and let Boston back in the game

Jaylen and Horford not conceding but their "best player" Jason is MIA

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Tatum is going to get scorched by the Boston media. Jaylen did the Bears and Celtics proud.