Oh Hell Yes! Absolutely!!

Agree. With the right guys around him, Kidd could have multiple rings and be in the Top Twenty (if not Top Ten).

When people ask me who was the best Cal athlete I ever saw, it's an easy answer.

Big C said:

---

Agree. With the right guys around him, Kidd could have multiple rings and be in the Top Twenty (if not Top Ten).

When people ask me who was the best Cal athlete I ever saw, it's an easy answer.

---

I agree but Tony Gonzalez wasn't far behind. Then maybe Chuck Muncie.

stu said:

---

Big C said:

---

Agree. With the right guys around him, Kidd could have multiple rings and be in the Top Twenty (if not Top Ten).

When people ask me who was the best Cal athlete I ever saw, it's an easy answer.

---

I agree but Tony Gonzalez wasn't far behind. Then maybe Chuck Muncie.

---

Basketball: Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Jalen Brown…

Football: Jahvid Best, Marshawn Lynch, Aaron Rodgers, Desean Jackson…

DiabloWags said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I wonder if SFCity caught that Stephen A moved Wilt out of his top 10 this week, in order to make room for Steph.

---

Tom, did you listen to Dray's Podcast last night after the game?
It was really good!

Dray's interview of GP2 is awsome!


Warriors title reaction w/ Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala & Gary Payton II | Draymond Green Show - YouTube

---

I actually just listened today driving from Salinas.
Outstanding!!!
I need to reassess!!!

(Did you hear that, Big C? I'm reassessing Draymond!)

I couldn't believe that's what he did after winning. Go to work until like 2am.

One thought I had was,
Considering how what seems to have distinguished this Warriors championship team from opponents this year is simply their mental make up. Sure, Steph is awesome!! And played well. But draymond and Klay had generally unimpressive stat lines. Wiggins played great, but his numbers are typical of 2nd best players on any playoff team. Everyone else just did their roles.
So what won it for these W's? Attitude!

And here's the question: how far can their current ingredients carry them next year? Other teams will be gunning for them, with increased experience and resolve!

The future looks bright!
-Kuminga
-Wiseman
-Poole
-Moody
But will these 4 youngers develop the Attitude required to become champions in their own right? They are no better talent-wise than Jaylen and Jason, Ja and his posse, Giannis and his, etc. Therefore, they will have to acquire not only the physical playmaking ability but also the mindset - AND THAT IS VERY MUCH IN QUESTION!

Therefore, I could see a trade or series of trades if the W's brass doesn't see that intangible mindset in these young psychologies. I am in no position to assess that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

How long could it take to develop, if ever. How long is the window open for Curry?

This all means, more great W's drama all next year. Cheering the aging vets while hurrying along the youngsters! Constructing, re-constructing, that championship DNA before the clock runs out. What a challenge for Kerr, Myers, Lacob.

calumnus said:

---

Basketball: Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Jalen Brown…

Football: Jahvid Best, Marshawn Lynch, Aaron Rodgers, Desean Jackson…

---

Craig Morton
Steve Bartkowski

concordtom said:

---

One thought I had was,
Considering how what seems to have distinguished this Warriors championship team from opponents this year is simply their mental make up. Sure, Steph is awesome!! And played well. But draymond and Klay had generally unimpressive stat lines. Wiggins played great, but his numbers are typical of 2nd best players on any playoff team. Everyone else just did their roles.
So what won it for these W's? Attitude!

And here's the question: how far can their current ingredients carry them next year? Other teams will be gunning for them, with increased experience and resolve!

The future looks bright!
-Kuminga
-Wiseman
-Poole
-Moody
But will these 4 youngers develop the Attitude required to become champions in their own right? They are no better talent-wise than Jaylen and Jason, Ja and his posse, Giannis and his, etc. Therefore, they will have to acquire not only the physical playmaking ability but also the mindset - AND THAT IS VERY MUCH IN QUESTION!

Therefore, I could see a trade or series of trades if the W's brass doesn't see that intangible mindset in these young psychologies. I am in no position to assess that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

How long could it take to develop, if ever. How long is the window open for Curry?

This all means, more great W's drama all next year. Cheering the aging vets while hurrying along the youngsters! Constructing, re-constructing, that championship DNA before the clock runs out. What a challenge for Kerr, Myers, Lacob.

---

The Warriors brain trust has said their model is the Spurs -- trying to win continually while gradually mixing in younger talent.

The Spurs' transition from the Robinson-led teams to the Duncan/Parker/Ginobili core is the goal. Easier said than done. The biggest challenge in this "parallel" is that one of the young Warriors, or someone acquired in the near future, has to play at the Tim Duncan level. I'm confident that Kuminga, Poole, and Moody can grow into contributing at the Parker/Ginobili level, but 3 or 4 years from now, who is the future Hall of Famer at the level of Duncan or Steph Curry?

Even if the Warriors find that guy, there's no guarantee he'll be a Warriors lifer. Player-team relationships blow up sometimes. Remember who was going to be the next Spurs superstar after Duncan? Kawhi Leonard.

concordtom said:

---

So what won it for these W's?
Attitude!

---

They held Boston to under 100 points of offense in 4 games. As Kerr will tell you, DEFENSE wins Championships.

They had 13 steals in Game 6.

concordtom said:

---

I couldn't believe that's what he did after winning. Go to work until like 2am.

---

It's also interesting to note, that if it wasnt for Dray's phone call to Bob Meyers, GP2 is most likely not in a Warrior uniform after his 10 day contract was up.

Dray's "fingerprints" are all over this Team.

DiabloWags said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I couldn't believe that's what he did after winning. Go to work until like 2am.

---

It's also interesting to note, that if it wasnt for Dray's phone call to Bob Meyers, GP2 is most likely not in a Warrior uniform after his 10 day contract was up.

Dray's "fingerprints" are all over this Team.

---

Dray also said Steph (did he insert "30"?) was with him on it.
And I previously heard Myers on radio say Steph came to him and said he can't let Payton go, because then Steph would have to go against Payton somewhere else. Apparently Payton was really hard on Steph. Good on him.
Even better on Payton was that he became an offensive weapon!!

Point is: Myers mentioned Steph's influence, not Dray's. Just pointing that out.

BearSD said:

---

concordtom said:

---

One thought I had was,
Considering how what seems to have distinguished this Warriors championship team from opponents this year is simply their mental make up. Sure, Steph is awesome!! And played well. But draymond and Klay had generally unimpressive stat lines. Wiggins played great, but his numbers are typical of 2nd best players on any playoff team. Everyone else just did their roles.
So what won it for these W's? Attitude!

And here's the question: how far can their current ingredients carry them next year? Other teams will be gunning for them, with increased experience and resolve!

The future looks bright!
-Kuminga
-Wiseman
-Poole
-Moody
But will these 4 youngers develop the Attitude required to become champions in their own right? They are no better talent-wise than Jaylen and Jason, Ja and his posse, Giannis and his, etc. Therefore, they will have to acquire not only the physical playmaking ability but also the mindset - AND THAT IS VERY MUCH IN QUESTION!

Therefore, I could see a trade or series of trades if the W's brass doesn't see that intangible mindset in these young psychologies. I am in no position to assess that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

How long could it take to develop, if ever. How long is the window open for Curry?

This all means, more great W's drama all next year. Cheering the aging vets while hurrying along the youngsters! Constructing, re-constructing, that championship DNA before the clock runs out. What a challenge for Kerr, Myers, Lacob.

---

The Warriors brain trust has said their model is the Spurs -- trying to win continually while gradually mixing in younger talent.

The Spurs' transition from the Robinson-led teams to the Duncan/Parker/Ginobili core is the goal. Easier said than done. The biggest challenge in this "parallel" is that one of the young Warriors, or someone acquired in the near future, has to play at the Tim Duncan level. I'm confident that Kuminga, Poole, and Moody can grow into contributing at the Parker/Ginobili level, but 3 or 4 years from now, who is the future Hall of Famer at the level of Duncan or Steph Curry?

Even if the Warriors find that guy, there's no guarantee he'll be a Warriors lifer. Player-team relationships blow up sometimes. Remember who was going to be the next Spurs superstar after Duncan? Kawhi Leonard.

---

BearSD said:

---

concordtom said:

---

One thought I had was,
Considering how what seems to have distinguished this Warriors championship team from opponents this year is simply their mental make up. Sure, Steph is awesome!! And played well. But draymond and Klay had generally unimpressive stat lines. Wiggins played great, but his numbers are typical of 2nd best players on any playoff team. Everyone else just did their roles.
So what won it for these W's? Attitude!

And here's the question: how far can their current ingredients carry them next year? Other teams will be gunning for them, with increased experience and resolve!

The future looks bright!
-Kuminga
-Wiseman
-Poole
-Moody
But will these 4 youngers develop the Attitude required to become champions in their own right? They are no better talent-wise than Jaylen and Jason, Ja and his posse, Giannis and his, etc. Therefore, they will have to acquire not only the physical playmaking ability but also the mindset - AND THAT IS VERY MUCH IN QUESTION!

Therefore, I could see a trade or series of trades if the W's brass doesn't see that intangible mindset in these young psychologies. I am in no position to assess that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

How long could it take to develop, if ever. How long is the window open for Curry?

This all means, more great W's drama all next year. Cheering the aging vets while hurrying along the youngsters! Constructing, re-constructing, that championship DNA before the clock runs out. What a challenge for Kerr, Myers, Lacob.

---

The Warriors brain trust has said their model is the Spurs -- trying to win continually while gradually mixing in younger talent.

The Spurs' transition from the Robinson-led teams to the Duncan/Parker/Ginobili core is the goal. Easier said than done. The biggest challenge in this "parallel" is that one of the young Warriors, or someone acquired in the near future, has to play at the Tim Duncan level. I'm confident that Kuminga, Poole, and Moody can grow into contributing at the Parker/Ginobili level, but 3 or 4 years from now, who is the future Hall of Famer at the level of Duncan or Steph Curry?

Even if the Warriors find that guy, there's no guarantee he'll be a Warriors lifer. Player-team relationships blow up sometimes. Remember who was going to be the next Spurs superstar after Duncan? Kawhi Leonard.

---

Good post. That's what I'm saying. There were plenty of All Stars who went home early, weeks ago. HOFers, too!
That's what makes this so special.

My handicapper: I love Kuminga and Wiseman. Great potential, nice guys.
But I'm gonna doubt either of them have the insane competitive fire to become The Dog Leader which is apparently required.
Then again, I suppose I'd have said the same about David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

Let the future commence!!

concordtom said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I wonder if SFCity caught that Stephen A moved Wilt out of his top 10 this week, in order to make room for Steph.

---

Tom, did you listen to Dray's Podcast last night after the game?
It was really good!

Dray's interview of GP2 is awsome!


Warriors title reaction w/ Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala & Gary Payton II | Draymond Green Show - YouTube

---

I actually just listened today driving from Salinas.
Outstanding!!!
I need to reassess!!!

(Did you hear that, Big C? I'm reassessing Draymond!)

---

Just tell me when you're ready and I'll make some room for you up here on the bandwagon.

Yet another reason I love that guy: "F*** Draymond!" He totally flipped the paradigm and it's now an expression of adulation.

He is currently my favorite pro athlete. I'd love to have him coach at Cal in five years*: The dude is Joe Kapp with X's and O's knowledge.




* highly unlikely, but i can dream

No one dominates a game while getting triple singles like Draymond.

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

Big C said:

---

Agree. With the right guys around him, Kidd could have multiple rings and be in the Top Twenty (if not Top Ten).

When people ask me who was the best Cal athlete I ever saw, it's an easy answer.

---

I agree but Tony Gonzalez wasn't far behind. Then maybe Chuck Muncie.

---

Basketball: Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Jalen Brown…

Football: Jahvid Best, Marshawn Lynch, Aaron Rodgers, Desean Jackson…

---

Matt Biondi.
11 Olympic Medals

HearstMining said:

---

stu said:

---

Cal basketball is so exciting we're discussing pro jerseys.

---

Even when Cal teams are good (and the current one is definitely not), these are the dog days. We could have a spirited discussion about whether Joe Shipp or Jordan Matthews was a better outside shooter while at Cal. Of course, SFCity might jump in and say Russ Critchfield was better than either of them.

---

Thanks for the troll. You woke me up. I had fallen asleep reading this thread. Very hard to compare shooters from one era to another, especially 3-point shooters, because the distance from the line to the basket is only fixed for a few seasons, and for guys like Rusty Critchfield, there was no line at all every shot was worth 2 points, whether it was a layup or a 40 footer. For Jordan Mathews, the line was 20'- 9" from the basket, but for Joe Shipp, it was only 19'- 9". In the NBA today, it is 23'- 9".

If you rate them strictly on shooting percentage, Mathews shot threes at .409, Shipp at .338. So no contest there, except that Jordan was a catch-and-shoot player, and not so good at creating his own shot. And he was a one-trick pony, who could do little else on the court other than make threes. He was a valuable part of the Cal team, but more of a role player. Shipp could do some other things on the court, and he could create his own three point shot. But by percentage, Jordan was the better shot, especially since he was often shooting from a foot farther out.

There is no way to compare Critchfield's shooting statistically with the other two, even though I'd guess he shot plenty of shots from three point distance. As a basketball player, Critchfield was more skilled than Shipp or Mathews. They all played different positions: Rusty was a point guard, Mathews a shooting guard, and Shipp a small forward. Rusty led his teams in scoring and assists, Shipp was good at scoring and rebounding. Rusty was probably the best defender of the three. In terms of awards, Rusty was two times first team all-conference, Shipp first team once, and Mathews did not make an all-conference team. According to the Cal Hall of Fame, Critchfield was named Helms Foundation first team All-American. I haven't found any evidence to support that. According to Wiki, he was named Honorable Mention AA two years in a row. If you look at the consensus AA team, or the other 4 AA teams of 1968, the players named were Lew Alcindor, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, and Larry Miller, and the 2nd team had Lucius Allen, Jo Jo White, and Mike Warren. Critchfield was one of Cal's best scorers and shooters, and did everything else well, but I don't think he belongs in a class of the players who made the AA team that year. That class reads like a Hall of Fame roster. Still Rusty competed well in a conference with the great UCLA teams of Alcindor, Allen, Warren, et al. Rusty was not drafted, but played with the Oakland Oaks of the ABL along with Rick Barry. Critchfield took only three 3-point shots in his 47 games of 1968-69, but still helped the Oaks to the ABL title that year.

An interesting Cal player of a bygone era who might be in the conversation for best shooter would be Larry Friend. He played at Cal from 1955-57, and led Cal to an Elite 8, while being named 3rd team AA. He was drafted by NY, but jumped to the new league, the ABL, and they were the first league to have a 3-point line. Larry led the ABL in 3-point shooting for one season, shooting .356. That doesn't sound too impressive, except according to one source, the ABL three point line was 25 feet from the basket! That would be 1'- 3" farther out than the present NBA line. I don't remember Larry shooting that many deep shots at Cal (Newell probably would have frowned on taking 26-footers), but Friend sure stepped it up in the pros. There were others in the ABL who had better percentages, so I don't know why he was crowned the best in the ABL. Tandy Gillis was another player who made a lot of deep shots at Cal in 1959-1960, but again there was no 3-point line, so no way to statistically compare him with the others.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageNBA/comments/byoy9q/196262_abl_3pt_shooting_s_ft_yardley_sharman/

stu said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Matt Biondi.
11 Olympic Medals

---

A swimmer can get an Olympic medal for each distance and each stroke. I'm exaggerating, but it's like gold in 50 m, gold in 100 m, gold in 200 m; one each for swimming on your back, swimming on your left side, swimming on your right side, swimming on your front, swimming moving both arms together, etc.

A basketball player can get one Olympic medal. Period.

An American football player can't get any Olympic medal.

---

And Steph Curry has zero Olympic medals. How can he therefore be in anyone's top 75???

YOU almost fell asleep reading ???

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/jun/17/a-toxic-win-at-all-costs-culture-runs-deep-in-elite-sport-we-need-to-look-at-why

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/19/rugby-union-dementia-they-ignore-it-its-just-deny-until-you-die-geoff-old-irene-gottlieb-old

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/19/strikes-inflation-slump-back-to-the-70s-more-like-the-unwinding-of-thatcherism?ref=biztoc.com&curator=biztoc.com

This was a good listen.

New @RealGM Radio podcast! I talk with @timkawakami and @ThompsonScribe about the Warriors' 2022 NBA Championship. How it affects their legacy, Curry's playoff run, the Finals and much more: https://t.co/ElVWnZfQXD

— Danny Leroux (@DannyLeroux) June 19, 2022

SF's post reminds me of my opinion on the top ten debate

They need to have two top ten lists. One for the early days and one for the modern era

Just can't compare the two, especially when many people never saw the players from the early days

HoopDreams said:

---

SF's post reminds me of my opinion on the top ten debate

They need to have two top ten lists. One for the early days and one for the modern era

Just can't compare the two, especially when many people never saw the players from the early days

---

What's the cutoff for modern era? 1980?

Ok, when does the NBA modern age begin?

1. ABA/NBA Merger 1976
2. NBA adds 3rd ref 1978
3. Magic and Bird enter the league and 3 pointers start 1979
4. Long shorts come in (Jordan era starts) 1984
5. Free agency 1988



Ideas

stu said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Matt Biondi.
11 Olympic Medals

---

A swimmer can get an Olympic medal for each distance and each stroke. I'm exaggerating, but it's like gold in 50 m, gold in 100 m, gold in 200 m; one each for swimming on your back, swimming on your left side, swimming on your right side, swimming on your front, swimming moving both arms together, etc.

A basketball player can get one Olympic medal. Period.

An American football player can't get any Olympic medal.

---

Ummm, the guy that wins Gold in the 50m is not usually swimming the 200m.
Never mind the competition on multiple days of heats and qualifiers just trying to make the finals in an event or the mental aspect of getting through such a rigorous schedule.

Football doesnt impress me that much.
There are plenty of "rest" breaks. It wouldnt even come close to Water Polo in my book where they dont stop play because of a penalty or spend 5 minutes reviewing an officiating call.

Next time, I will leave off how many Olympic medals the "Best Athlete at Cal" that I ever saw had.
I'm sorry that "triggered" you.

concordtom said:

---

stu said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Matt Biondi.
11 Olympic Medals

---

A swimmer can get an Olympic medal for each distance and each stroke. I'm exaggerating, but it's like gold in 50 m, gold in 100 m, gold in 200 m; one each for swimming on your back, swimming on your left side, swimming on your right side, swimming on your front, swimming moving both arms together, etc.

A basketball player can get one Olympic medal. Period.

An American football player can't get any Olympic medal.

---

And Steph Curry has zero Olympic medals. How can he therefore be in anyone's top 75???

---

Ummmm, the topic that I was referring to was in regards to the Best Cal Athlete that they ever saw compete.

I've been going fball& bball games at Cal since 1963. The best all-around athlete from then to now is, without question Jason Kidd. Is easiest answer to any Cal related question I've ever had. He truly was a superstar in bball and if he chose to focus on either football or baseball, he'd have been an AA in those, too!

ducky23 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

Big C said:

---

Agree. With the right guys around him, Kidd could have multiple rings and be in the Top Twenty (if not Top Ten).

When people ask me who was the best Cal athlete I ever saw, it's an easy answer.

---

I agree but Tony Gonzalez wasn't far behind. Then maybe Chuck Muncie.

---

Basketball: Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Jalen Brown…

Football: Jahvid Best, Marshawn Lynch, Aaron Rodgers, Desean Jackson…

---

Matt Biondi.
11 Olympic Medals

---

Natalie coughlin
12 Olympic medals

---

Yup.

I mentioned Biondi over Natalie because Matt was also an All-American in Water Polo and played on the NCAA Championship teams of 1983, 1984, and 1987. He was actually voted MVP in 1985.

He set 12 individual swimming world records.

At the 1986 World Championships, he set a record of 7 medals at one WC Meet.
This record has since been matched by Phelps and passed by Caeleb Dressel with 8 medals.
Dressel is currently competing at the World's right now in Budapest, June 18th - 25th.

I only mention Biondi because I think that he often gets overlooked given his resume.

Chabbear said:

---

Ok, when does the NBA modern age begin?

1. ABA/NBA Merger 1976
2. NBA adds 3rd ref 1978
3. Magic and Bird enter the league and 3 pointers start 1979
4. Long shorts come in (Jordan era starts) 1984
5. Free agency 1988



Ideas

---

the Magic/Bird era is probably the cutoff point. You either include them in early era or the modern era

the 3 point line is another strong factor as no rule change has impacted the game more than that

Chabbear said:

---

Ok, when does the NBA modern age begin?

1. ABA/NBA Merger 1976
2. NBA adds 3rd ref 1978
3. Magic and Bird enter the league and 3 pointers start 1979
4. Longshorts come in (Jordan era starts) 1984
5. Coach Longshanks throws towel boy out hotel window after bad loss, 1987.

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Chabbear said:

---

Ok, when does the NBA modern age begin?

1. ABA/NBA Merger 1976
2. NBA adds 3rd ref 1978
3. Magic and Bird enter the league and 3 pointers start 1979
4. Long shorts come in (Jordan era starts) 1984
5. Free agency 1988



Ideas

---

the Magic/Bird era is probably the cutoff point. You either include them in early era or the modern era

the 3 point line is another strong factor as no rule change has impacted the game more than that

---

Anybody who would put Magic and Bird in an "early era" is just trying to make me feel old! Cut it the heck out!

I was thinking, okay George Mikan, he would be in the early era... probably.

DiabloWags said:

---

stu said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Matt Biondi.
11 Olympic Medals

---

A swimmer can get an Olympic medal for each distance and each stroke. I'm exaggerating, but it's like gold in 50 m, gold in 100 m, gold in 200 m; one each for swimming on your back, swimming on your left side, swimming on your right side, swimming on your front, swimming moving both arms together, etc.

A basketball player can get one Olympic medal. Period.

An American football player can't get any Olympic medal.

---

Ummm, the guy that wins Gold in the 50m is not usually swimming the 200m.
Never mind the competition on multiple days of heats and qualifiers just trying to make the finals in an event or the mental aspect of getting through such a rigorous schedule.

Football doesnt impress me that much.
There are plenty of "rest" breaks. It wouldnt even come close to Water Polo in my book where they dont stop play because of a penalty or spend 5 minutes reviewing an officiating call.

Next time, I will leave off how many Olympic medals the "Best Athlete at Cal" that I ever saw had.
I'm sorry that "triggered" you.

---

Nothing petsonal and nothing against swimming or swimmers. It's just the way competitions are organized swimmers have a lot of events. The same could be said of track, skiing, skating, and other races except those don't have different strokes.

I agree football has too much dead time, that's one reason I prefer basketball.

What basketball and football (along with many other sports) do have is defense, accuracy, and teamwork. Those demonstrate dimensions of athleticism beyond strength and endurance.