Warriors 2019 playoff thread

116,273 Views | 1110 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by philbert
SFCityBear
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sycasey said:

HoopDreams said:

SFCityBear said:

The Warriors of this season represent everything that is good and everything that is bad about modern basketball. The good is that they play together better as a team better than any NBA team and are changing the culture as others try to emulate them. The bad is that now their season may end early due to key injuries, which is a pattern in basketball now, with so many teams in college and pro having their dreams ended due to an injury to one or more key players.

So I don't know what the problem is, but basketball today is filled with tragedy, as so many teams have their seasons ruined by an injury, not to mention the personal injury to the player.
For NBA there are just too many games

For college maybe there should be an additional schollie allowed, due to injuries and the reality that there will be more and more transfers. I read an article from a D1 power six coach saying it's like coaching JC ball. Every year there is lots of roster turnover so you need to dumb down your schemes because players aren't on the team long enough to master more complex schemes

But maybe that just leads to even more transfers as players won't be happy with their PT


Is there evidence that injuries actually happen more now than in the past?

I mean, it does suck when injuries affect the championship, but that's just how sports work.
You ask an interesting question. First, we need to define what "the past" means. Speaking anecdotally, I think you have to go way back, to find a time when there were very few serious injuries, which would cause a player to miss games, and hurt a team's chances for a championship. I played in the 50s and 60s, and I sprained lots of ankles and fingers, and had a concussion. The only time I missed a game was when I got hit in practice and sprained both knees on one play. No one I played with ever missed a game due to injury. During those years, I attended a lot of games too, high school and Cal games, and can't recollect any player missing a a game due to injury. Earl Robinson injured his knee, and always wore protection, but he missed no games to my knowledge. I was a Celtic fan and watched all their games on TV. I never saw any serious injuries in any of the early championship years. The first player I remember getting injured to where he missed a lot of games and it hurt the team, was Cal's Leonard Taylor in the mid 1980s. Al Grigsby was the next to go down with a serious injury. Ben Braun's teams had serious injuries to several players, Powe, Hardin, Marks, Harrison, and Sam Rayburn were a few. Rick Barry tore ligaments in his knee in 1968 in the ABA , and never returned to the form he had as a rookie with the Warriors, but that was a rare injury for those days.

I think there were a few factors that might have contributed. First, teams in the old days used to run pattern plays. I went to many Pete Newell practices, and there was very little scrimmaging or contact. Plays like that depend on placement, controlled movement, footwork, rhythm, and so forth, and the players were being taught these moves and plays and then practiced them with endless drills. Players always were in designated positions on the floor and moving to other designated positions, doing specific tasks repetitively. Then basketball evolved to motion offense, which allowed players more freedom to move and make their own decisions. As such they were no longer in predictable spots on the floor, and my guess is that there was more chaos and more collisions than with pattern play.

Along with this came changes which allowed more charging and contact. Dunks were reinstated, and more players began playing above the rim, leaving them more vulnerable and susceptible to injury when landing. They had to learn how to fall, land on the floor and not on someone's foot. Ty Wallace was amazing with all the times and ways he could fall and not get hurt, until the very end of his 4 years at Cal.

As the refs allowed more collisions, the players began to beef up to adapt themselves to the increase in contact. John Madden has said the players had added more muscle and bulk to frames that were not designed to support that.

Finally, the game today is played all out, with players trying to play at more than 100% of what they are capable of. They try to jump too high, run too fast, and collide too hard. John Havlicek used to say he played at 85%. Always play within himself, to conserve energy, and probably avoid injury. Today's game is exciting for players and for fans, but it comes with more risks. All IMHO.
SFCityBear
BearSD
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ClayK said:

BearSD said:

HoopDreams said:

SFCityBear said:

The Warriors of this season represent everything that is good and everything that is bad about modern basketball. The good is that they play together better as a team better than any NBA team and are changing the culture as others try to emulate them. The bad is that now their season may end early due to key injuries, which is a pattern in basketball now, with so many teams in college and pro having their dreams ended due to an injury to one or more key players.

So I don't know what the problem is, but basketball today is filled with tragedy, as so many teams have their seasons ruined by an injury, not to mention the personal injury to the player.
For NBA there are just too many games
This, 100 percent.

82 regular season games, plus 20 playoff games through Finals game 4, is way too many. This season just illustrates that the Warriors of the past two seasons were very fortunate with injuries.

When Bogut returned to the Warriors, he said that he was much fresher because in Australia they play at most two games a week. Doing that in the NBA would be the right way to go. It would mean a regular season of about 56 games.
And I'm sure the players would happily reduce their salaries by a third, and the owners would gladly reduce their profits by the same amount.


Wouldn't be a third, if you only reduce the regular season and not the playoffs, which are much more valuable per-game than the regular season.

Still, your point is the right one. The league has chosen maximum revenue over better quality of play, and they're not going to change that.
GBear4Life
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yup

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26941781/source-durant-plans-play-game-5-monday

Would he be playing if it were 2-2?
UrsaMajor
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Interesting summary, SFCity. The trend extends well beyond basketball. I don't know the figure, but it seems that most pitchers have Tommy John surgery by the time they reach the MLB (some in high school). I think this stems from too early specialization and, ironically, modern conditioning, which increases strength and stamina but leaves connective tissue (which doesn't generally "strengthen") relatively weaker. This may be why there are so many ACL,UCL, Achilles injuries these days.
bearister
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It appears KD has been shooting a few thousand treys during his hiatus.
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sonofabear51
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If the Dubs win tonight, I think there will be a Game 7. JMHO
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KenBurnski
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Wow really really weak Raptors fans cheering KD going down. Shocking.
sonofabear51
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Yeah that was disgusting and surprising. Garbage.
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TheSouseFamily
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I'm far from a Warriors fan but after watching Toronto fans cheer the Durant injury with gusto, F them. They don't deserve a title with that classless BS.

Plus, Bieber.
sonofabear51
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Disgraceful
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KenBurnski
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I'm with you. Plus Drake.
cal83dls79
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Me too. Lost all respect. How sad. Screw them.
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sycasey
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I'll give the Raptor players credit for telling the fans to knock that s*** off.
cal83dls79
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Yeah, I'm referring to the fans. Horrible
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bearister
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Defense question: How do you avoid fouling a player that does a 5 step spinning tumble down the middle of the key?

Warriors have 10 3's and Toronto has 1.
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sonofabear51
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Maybe it depends on who is officiating and where the game is being played.
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cal83dls79
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Now what? Seems like back to half at last game although Boogie has life
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GBear4Life
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Conspiracy theory part of me always believed it was an achilles injury. I"ve had calf and achilles injuries, and I've never had a calf injury that hurts in the achilles area. And the calf injuries I've had, while not being able to do athletic movements, I could always walk and do normal stuff with slight discomfort.
Big C
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Yeah, Durant first started grabbing the Achilles area and, after a few seconds, was like, "Oh yeah, it's supposed to be a calf injury." and moved his hand up (big difference between Achilles and calf on legs that long).
Big C
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cal83dls79 said:

Yeah, I'm referring to the fans. Horrible
They started to cheer, then realized they shouldn't and stopped. Rookie mistake.

Meanwhile, the Warriors need to stop standing around whining about the refs and play basketball. They let Toronto get the momentum back.
bearister
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After observing Kevin Lowry tonight the depth of my understanding of the incident with Mark Stevens is deepening.

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sonofabear51
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Been a long distance runner for 39 years. Think I know the difference between Achilles issues and Calf pulls. Still doing it. Have had many pulled calf muscles, most took at least 3-5 weeks to heal. 4 years ago, partially tore first my lefchilles, then 1 year later almost to the day, pulled the right side Achilles. Those took 3 - 4 months to heal. 3 years after, injury free, and still running 5 k in ~25 minutes at age 59. Guess my point is calfs pulls heal fairly quickly vs Achilles tears. They feel different when they occur.
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Bear_Territory
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Win or lose this series...people are going to remember Toronto cheering KD's injury.
GBear4Life
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GBear4Life
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Big C said:

Yeah, Durant first started grabbing the Achilles area and, after a few seconds, was like, "Oh yeah, it's supposed to be a calf injury." and moved his hand up (big difference between Achilles and calf on legs that long).
But I mean if it was in fact originally a strained achilles, and GS was doing KD a favor given his pending FA (or god knows why), why was KD even in the ballpark of trying to play?

GBear4Life
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sonofabear51 said:

Been a long distance runner for 39 years. Think I know the difference between Achilles issues and Calf pulls. Still doing it. Have had many pulled calf muscles, most took at least 3-5 weeks to heal. 4 years ago, partially tore first my lefchilles, then 1 year later almost to the day, pulled the right side Achilles. Those took 3 - 4 months to heal. 3 years after, injury free, and still running 5 k in ~25 minutes at age 59. Guess my point is calfs pulls heal fairly quickly vs Achilles tears. They feel different when they occur.
I've had lingering calf pain for multiple months, it just wouldn't go away. So I mean I can believe a calf strain can keep him out for well over a month, it just never looked like a calf injury looking at it.

I mean I suppose an orginal lower calf strain near the achilles weakened both the calf and the achilles, leading to tonight's actual achilles injury. I dunno.

And wow, 5k in 25 minutes at 59! Nice
sonofabear51
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GBear, yes they can last for a while. It depends on the severity and how quickly the body heals. You should see the times for a couple guys older than me. We have a 70 year old who routinely runs 23 minutes, and another 59 YO who is one of the fastest guy in the country for the 800 meter run. 2:11. LOL
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bearister
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Love to steal this one.

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sycasey
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Wow, unbelievable. No one can say they didn't have heart.
bearister
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F you Canada!

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sonofabear51
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This was absolutely awesome!!!! Way to go Dubs!! Game 7 coming!!
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bearister
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sonofabear51 said:

This was absolutely awesome!!!! Way to go Dubs!! Game 7 coming!!


Not to wish ill on anyone, but it could happen if the injury gremlins switch sides.
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Golden One
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sonofabear51 said:

This was absolutely awesome!!!! Way to go Dubs!! Game 7 coming!!
I dunno. The Dubs certainly played with heart tonight without KD, but I just don't see how they can win the next game (let alone the next 2) without Durant. With KD healthy, the Warriors would blow by Toronto, possibly even sweep. But with him out, and their relatively thin bench, it would take a miracle.
bearister
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Golden One said:

..., it would take a miracle.


a/k/a Kawhi's gimpy leg finally blowing up. That team is a One Trick Pony. I do like Kawhi and wish him no ill will.
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Golden One
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bearister said:

Golden One said:

..., it would take a miracle.


a/k/a Kawhi's gimpy leg finally blowing up. That team is a One Trick Pony. I do like Kawhi and wish him no ill will.
I'm not so sure about that one trick pony thing. They have a very solid starting lineup, and their bench is deeper than GS. Leonard's gimpy leg doesn't seem to be slowing him down so far, so I can't believe it's much of a threat to his ability to play at MVP level.
 
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