Big C said:

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concordtom said:

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Big C said:

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concordtom said:

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In the old days, when guys were injured, people would say "gut it out. How tough are you? Don't be a p*ssy."

Those are NOW the old days.

I'd have never thought he could blow out his Achilles based on a weak calf.
People will now say KD response was wrong, and that Kawhi response was right.
Rest, get 100% healthy.

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Don't you think KD's injury last month was actually an Achilles (not a complete tear or rupture, obviously) and not a calf? That was certainly the way the announcers were describing it, at the time, when he initially went down. It would explain why he took so long to come back and also better explain Bob "Sensitive Guy" Myers' tearful "Blame me" speech last night.

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No way!
I don't believe that at all.

1. KD grabbed his calf, not his Achilles, as he did last night.
2. He never had a boot on, like he did last night.
3. Announcers can guess and pontificate all they want about the injury. They are not doctors, they are not Kerr, who spoke on it. He doesn't lie. And I don't believe the doctors or staff would lie to him.
4. If it was Achilles related, no way would he have come back so soon.

I didn't know he could mess up his achilles with it being a calf. I had heard talk of that, and suppose the staff should have known, so that TOTALLY sucks.
But like I said, an historic 3-peat was right there for the taking. How many could resist that, provided they thought the calf could not I jure him worse (which is what Kerr said they believed).

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1. No, not really.
2. ?!?
3. Get real.
4. Could have been Achilles, but not complete tear or rupture.

When Durant got injured last month, they kept replaying it and the announcers kept saying it sure looked like an Achilles. The next day, nope, it's a calf, but then he can't come back for FOUR WEEKS, even though Klay and Looney are coming back from a hamstring and a torn cartilage after only two DAYS (it is the finals, after all). Then, when he finally comes back, after only one quarter, he suddenly tears that Achilles, which had been "perfectly healthy" prior?!? It ISN'T a very common injury, you know.

And what's with that phony-azz Bob Myers? Okay, I get it's 2019 and men can cry. And I get he really, REALLY cares about his players (especially when they're superstars he wants to re-sign). When he was crying for multi-millionaire Kevin Durant getting injured, all I could think about were the THOUSANDS of people going on disability this month who have been barely able to make ends meet for their families and now what are they going to do? Pooooor Kevin Durant: All those questions from the media -- ALL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR -- and now he's injured! Some guys just have a rough life...

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Just watched the video of the play in Houston. 1. he grabbed his calf. Now it could be he was grabbing for his achilles and just didn't reach all the way down, but he didn't grab his achilles. 2. Also on the video, it shows him walking off through the tunnel before play had resumed in the game. the courtside reporter says "the warriors have told me it is a strained calf muscle and he won't return. So the warriors said it was a calf IMMEDIATELY, not the next day. 3. Despite the announcers jumping all over it being the achilles, I think his reaction was perfectly consistent with a calf strain. If the announcers had never said achilles no one would have thought it, given that the warriors immediately told them calf strain.

The warriors had no idea that the announcers were making it out to be an achilles, so they had no reason to make up a story at that point. They told the courtside reporter what it was based on Durant telling them.

Oaktownbear FTW
BigC FTL

Big C said:

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HoopDreams said:

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https://instagr.am/p/BykoecPFTg1

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I'd criticize her use of capital letters, but she's at least as good as the President of the United States in that regard, so I'll cut her some slack.

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Wow, two bad posts in a row?
If you're going to invoke Trump to try and bolster your argument, you automatically lose.

concordtom said:

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Big C said:

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HoopDreams said:

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https://instagr.am/p/BykoecPFTg1

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I'd criticize her use of capital letters, but she's at least as good as the President of the United States in that regard, so I'll cut her some slack.

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Wow, two bad posts in a row?
If you're going to invoke Trump to try and bolster your argument, you automatically lose.

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check the spelling of "awesome"... it is NOT spelled b-a-d

concordtom said:

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Oaktownbear FTW
BigC FTL

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How could you have possibly known that I was in the mood to google two new (for me) initialisms?!?

FTW: (used by white supremacists) "forever truly white"
Sorry, but I have no idea how this can apply to OaktownBear, or even what the relevance is to this thread topic.

FTL: "faster than light"
Thanks for the compliment, but no way. In my dreams, maybe. When I was in my 20s, I once did a local 5k race and finished 3rd (out of about 50), with a pretty decent time. At my age now, I'm doing some light training to break (don't laugh) 20 seconds in the 100m and 1:30 in the 400. I'm getting really close and may do it by the fall... but that's hardly "faster than light", even for my age group.

I love Google! I can find pretty much anything I want on it!

Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

I'm sorry to hear about your recent struggles.
Best of luck. Get well soon.

oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

OAKLAND The NBA's worst fears have been confirmed.
Kevin Durant, who left in the second quarter of the Warriors' Game 5 win in Toronto, did indeed rupture his Achilles tendon, and underwent surgery Wednesday, providing a bit more clarity for his impending free agency.
Durant announced the news on his Instagram.
"What's good everybody I wanted to update you all: I did rupture my Achilles. Surgery was today and it was a success, EASY MONEY," Durant said. "My road back starts now! I got my family and my loved ones by my side and we truly appreciate all the messages and support people have sent our way. Like I said Monday, I'm hurting deeply, but I'm OK. Basketball is my biggest love and I wanted to be out there that night because that's what I do. I wanted to help my teammates on our quest for the three peat."
A source told The Post that Durant was in New York for the surgery. Durant had visited with Dr. Martin O'Malley, an associate attending orthopedic surgeon at HSS, who operated on Durant's foot in 2015. O'Malley also doubles as the Nets team physician and, according to a source, had been a consultant with the Knicks on ankle and foot injuries but no longer.
The Knicks are still planning to pursue Durant in free agency this offseason, and indications around the league are they won't be alone.

Durant, who will now likely be forced to miss all of next season, can opt in to his $31.5 million contract for next year, but that stands to be a last resort, according to ESPN.
Ironically, Durant's Instagram post from New York came minutes after coach Steve Kerr was holding his off-day press conference Wednesday at Oracle Arena, with the team having no knowledge of the player's announcement. Kerr had said there was no news on Durant and he regretted the decision to play him Monday.
For now, Durant is concentrating on his Warriors teammates, who will try and dig out of a 3-2 hole after Monday's 106-105 victory. Durant missed the Warriors' previous nine games with a calf injury sustained in the Western Conference semifinals before suiting up for Game 5. Durant scored 11 points in 12 minutes before exiting in the second quarter, grabbing his right Achilles tendon as he collapsed trying to drive into the lane.

[url=https://nypost.com/2019/06/12/knicks-still-ready-to-make-push-for-kevin-durant-signing/][/url]
"It's just the way things go in this game and I'm proud that I gave it all I physically could, and I'm proud my brothers got the W," Durant said of the Warriors. "It's going to be a journey but I'm built for this. I'm a hooper. I know my brothers can get this Game 6, and I will be cheering with dub nation while they do it."
Kerr said they felt the only risk was the potential of hurting the calf again, not the Achilles.

"There's going to be finger pointing. We understand that and we accept that,'' Kerr said. "Obviously, everybody feels horrible for what happened. This last month was a cumulative collaborative effort in his rehabilitation. And that collaboration included Kevin and his business partner, Rich Kleiman, our medical staff, his own outside second opinion doctor, outside of our organization. Kevin checked all the boxes, and he was cleared to play by everybody involved.

"Now, would we go back and do it over again? Damn right. But that's easy to say after the resultsOur feeling was the worst thing that could happen would be a re-injury of the calf. That was the advice and the information that we had. So the Achilles came as a complete shock."

Big C said:

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..I love Google! I can find pretty much anything I want on it!

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To exemplify your point, last year I was thinking about a streaking event I observed Winter Quarter of 1974 (when I was a sophomore) at the corner of Channing and College Avenue. On Google Image I typed the search term "Streaking Berkeley 1974" and within a few seconds located the photo below. Two of my classmates from O'Dowd, who also attended Cal, are clearly visible in the photo. To me Google is nothing short of sorcery.

https://ronriesterer.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eYBjq7JPLH0

Kerr today
Right after his Lindsay Gottleib comments he gets into the Durant situation, and it made me think, gosh, I wish our president could be a stand up guy and answer questions like that.

concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

concordtom said:

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Kerr today
Right after his Lindsay Gottleib comments he gets into the Durant situation, and it made me think, gosh, I wish our president could be a stand up guy and answer questions like that.

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A wise man very recently wrote...

"If you're going to invoke Trump to try and bolster your argument, you automatically lose."

sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

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I refuse to believe that they discussed the possibility of his calf injury traveling to his Achilles. Had anyone thought that a possibility, there's no way he'd have risked it. It's just too high a risk, even if the reward is a title.

Thus, the advice was that it couldn't happen.
And yet, it did.
Thus, bad advice.
Clearly.

My invocation was "Opposite Trump", which as I just discussed with my 10 year old, except when it comes to the habit of daily showering and teeth brushing (which I assume he has), one can never go wrong doing anything the opposite of trump.
Thus, I am on the right side of history, and you are flushed down the toilet. :-)

Now then, let's just accept that as fact on this basketball forum, and leave the politics to OT.
I win, you lose, again.

BeachedBear said:

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concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

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I refuse to believe that they discussed the possibility of his calf injury traveling to his Achilles. Had anyone thought that a possibility, there's no way he'd have risked it. It's just too high a risk, even if the reward is a title.

Thus, the advice was that it couldn't happen.
And yet, it did.
Thus, bad advice.
Clearly.

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Ya know CT, you sound more like Trump than anyone else on this forum. Different 'factoids', but similar process and rhetoric. Pretty sure that's not your intent . . . but maybe it is.

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In this instance, I think he's right.

GMP said:

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BeachedBear said:

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concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

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I refuse to believe that they discussed the possibility of his calf injury traveling to his Achilles. Had anyone thought that a possibility, there's no way he'd have risked it. It's just too high a risk, even if the reward is a title.

Thus, the advice was that it couldn't happen.
And yet, it did.
Thus, bad advice.
Clearly.

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Ya know CT, you sound more like Trump than anyone else on this forum. Different 'factoids', but similar process and rhetoric. Pretty sure that's not your intent . . . but maybe it is.

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In this instance, I think he's right.

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Sorry. But if Kerr is to be taken literally, then he shouldn't play Thompson or Curry because an Achilles tear is "within the realm of possibility." (see, Cousins, DeMarcus Bryant, Kobe or Gay, Rudy)

UrsaMajor said:

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GMP said:

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BeachedBear said:

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concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

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I refuse to believe that they discussed the possibility of his calf injury traveling to his Achilles. Had anyone thought that a possibility, there's no way he'd have risked it. It's just too high a risk, even if the reward is a title.

Thus, the advice was that it couldn't happen.
And yet, it did.
Thus, bad advice.
Clearly.

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Ya know CT, you sound more like Trump than anyone else on this forum. Different 'factoids', but similar process and rhetoric. Pretty sure that's not your intent . . . but maybe it is.

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In this instance, I think he's right.

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Sorry. But if Kerr is to be taken literally, then he shouldn't play Thompson or Curry because an Achilles tear is "within the realm of possibility." (see, Cousins, DeMarcus Bryant, Kobe or Gay, Rudy)

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And an asteroid could hit the arena, too. He obviously means the doctors did not mention or ruled out the possibility that playing on the calf strain could result in an achilles injury.

ducky23 said:

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concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

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I refuse to believe that they discussed the possibility of his calf injury traveling to his Achilles. Had anyone thought that a possibility, there's no way he'd have risked it. It's just too high a risk, even if the reward is a title.

Thus, the advice was that it couldn't happen.
And yet, it did.
Thus, bad advice.
Clearly.

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Can you define "bad advice"?

An attorney who actually specializes in medical malpractice can correct me, but based on my rudimentary understanding, for medical malpractice the court does not look at the results but the methodology.

The key question is was the appropriate medical standard of care provided. In other words, would a reasonably competent doctor in the same field provide different care.

So in this case, you would have to show that both the warriors medical staff AND the independent medical staff that provided the second opinion, both should have known, based on the given facts, that it was possible that an Achilles injury could happen.

No one on this board has both the expertise and the knowledge of the requisite facts to answer that question.

Basically, until a bunch of doctors who are experts in this field look at kd's MRI and medical file and come to a conclusion, then any other speculation is irresponsible.

Maybe more information comes out later. But let's not jump to conclusions until that happens.

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Excellent post, Ducky!

I would only add that if I were KD's dad, I would have counseled him against playing. We only get one body, so best to preserve it as best as we can. At age 30, KD is likely to have 50 or more years in his body.

And given the expert advice he was given, no doubt, KD would have shrugged off my conservative view and played in game 5...

This is what happened. Unfortunately, Curry backed down.

concordtom said:

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My invocation was "Opposite Trump", which as I just discussed with my 10 year old, except when it comes to the habit of daily showering and teeth brushing (which I assume he has), one can never go wrong doing anything the opposite of trump.
Thus, I am on the right side of history, and you are flushed down the toilet. :-)

Now then, let's just accept that as fact on this basketball forum, and leave the politics to OT.
I win, you lose, again.

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"I win, you lose, again."

Exactly what I was thinking!

ducky23 said:

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concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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oskidunker said:

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Confirmed Acilles tear for Durant. He has already had surgery in New York . Too bad. I wonder if the prior injury was related as it was supposed to be a calf strain

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Clearly, he was given bad medical advice by the team and his own doctors.

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I wouldn't say anything is "clear" in this situation. None of us know what was discussed between KD, the team, or the doctors.

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I refuse to believe that they discussed the possibility of his calf injury traveling to his Achilles. Had anyone thought that a possibility, there's no way he'd have risked it. It's just too high a risk, even if the reward is a title.

Thus, the advice was that it couldn't happen.
And yet, it did.
Thus, bad advice.
Clearly.

---

Can you define "bad advice"?

An attorney who actually specializes in medical malpractice can correct me, but based on my rudimentary understanding, for medical malpractice the court does not look at the results but the methodology.

The key question is was the appropriate medical standard of care provided. In other words, would a reasonably competent doctor in the same field provide different care.

So in this case, you would have to show that both the warriors medical staff AND the independent medical staff that provided the second opinion, both should have known, based on the given facts, that it was possible that an Achilles injury could happen.

No one on this board has both the expertise and the knowledge of the requisite facts to answer that question.

Basically, until a bunch of doctors who are experts in this field look at kd's MRI and medical file and come to a conclusion, then any other speculation is irresponsible.

Maybe more information comes out later. But let's not jump to conclusions until that happens.

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Everyone is assuming the second injury is related to the first. Maybe, but relation in time doesn't mean relation in cause. It could very well be he ruptured his Achilles just because. He certainly would not be willing he first guy to sustain an injury on his first game back from sustaining an unrelated injury. It should definitely be looked into, but not just assumed

Big C said:

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concordtom said:

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Oaktownbear FTW
BigC FTL

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How could you have possibly known that I was in the mood to google two new (for me) initialisms?!?

FTW: (used by white supremacists) "forever truly white"
Sorry, but I have no idea how this can apply to OaktownBear, or even what the relevance is to this thread topic.

FTL: "faster than light"
Thanks for the compliment, but no way. In my dreams, maybe. When I was in my 20s, I once did a local 5k race and finished 3rd (out of about 50), with a pretty decent time. At my age now, I'm doing some light training to break (don't laugh) 20 seconds in the 100m and 1:30 in the 400. I'm getting really close and may do it by the fall... but that's hardly "faster than light", even for my age group.

I love Google! I can find pretty much anything I want on it!

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In fairness, I am white. That is true, so I guess I'm truly white. Forever is tough, since death and decomposition do await at some point, but if that is meant to mean my whole life, I guess I am FTW, though it is a characteristic that I am neither proud nor ashamed of, so I wouldn't be championing the claim as it sounds like one would if they used the term.

concordtom said:

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Kerr today
Right after his Lindsay Gottleib comments he gets into the Durant situation, and it made me think, gosh, I wish our president could be a stand up guy and answer questions like that.

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How did Trump get into this discussion? I haven't read every post, but it appears to be you who brought the President into the conversation. In one fell swoop you demonstrate that you have no more knowledge of what goes on in political press conferences than you do about what goes on in basketball press conferences.

"stand up guy"? That conference was a love-fest between sports reporters, most of whom love Steve Kerr, love the Warriors, and love Kevin Durant. Even if there was some small agenda to find out more about the decision for KD to play, to perhaps assign blame to someone for this tragic injury, it does not in any way compare to a Trump press conference, where some the worst human animosity short of violence is on display. The journalists asking questions of the President mostly hate the man. They are trying every trick they know to upset, him, trip him up, catch him in a mistake. They are trying to get him out of office, by planting enough negative thoughts in voters' minds so they defeat him, by trying to uncover a crime for which he can be impeached and driven out of office. They are not reporters, trying to report facts. They are agenda-driven, agenda-controlled. They would cheer Trump's defeat at the polls, or his death by any means. Trump gets no softball questions from the majority of these 'journalists". What he gets is rudeness, (towards him and towards fellow reporters). Trump stands up to this, as he should, and gives back what he gets and more. He is already a bully, but he is goaded into being even more obnoxious behavior by these paragons of the press.

You take these same journalists in a press conference with a President they love, like Barack Obama, and what you got every time was a love fest, with few tough questions, much more like the press conference you saw with Steve Kerr and the reporters questioning him. I grant you it was a little tough to stand up and talk about an issue of a player's injury. First of all the game and series are played at a high level of emotion, and the injury affected all of them, KD, players, fans, coaches, and the team's owner and employees. Kerr is emotional guy, they all all are. The tough part is the probing into the decision, what was actually said between player and doctor, which is confidential and highly personal between the two of them. Kerr can't reveal any more than that, and it has to be uncomfortable to talk to reporters about.

But that is a far cry from journalists trying to rudely grill a President, no matter what you think of the guy. Affairs of state are serious matters. Lives hang in the balance of a President's decisions. The decisions of a basketball coach can affect the outcome of a game, or a player's career, and even with the seriousness of the KD's injury., it does not rise to the level of questions a President has to answer over killing Bin Laden, or placing sanctions on Iran or sending troops to Venezuela, or the questions designed to entrap him into revealing some evidence of violating his oath of office.

In a later post here, you told a poster to leave politics to OT. Since you are the one who often brings Trump into basketball discussions, why not make the first move, and take your own political views to OT? .

OaktownBear said:

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Everyone is assuming the second injury is related to the first.

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Oh, I think that's safe to say. No need to assume.

ducky23 said:

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So in this case, you would have to show that both the warriors medical staff AND the independent medical staff that provided the second opinion, both should have known, based on the given facts, that it was possible that an Achilles injury could happen.

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If either of those two medical teams said there was a significant risk of an Achilles tear by playing 30 days after the calf injury, Durant would not have played in game 5. Either KD would have said no himself, or the team would have kept him out as they kept Klay out of game 3.

BearSD said:

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ducky23 said:

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So in this case, you would have to show that both the warriors medical staff AND the independent medical staff that provided the second opinion, both should have known, based on the given facts, that it was possible that an Achilles injury could happen.

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If either of those two medical teams said there was a significant risk of an Achilles tear by playing 30 days after the calf injury, Durant would not have played in game 5. Either KD would have said no himself, or the team would have kept him out as they kept Klay out of game 3.

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I don't think anything was keeping Durant off the floor for Game 5 short of re-injuring himself before the game.

Klay hurt again!

No one would blame the Warriors if they lose this series.

That was a hell of an effort in really tough circumstances. Can't be mad about it.

Agreed. Warriors totally lived up to their name. Losing 3 starters to injuries, and still taking the Finals to 6 games, and a very close 6 games at that. Go Dubs!! I have enjoyed the 5 year run, it has been incredible fun, the likes I probably won't see again anytime soon.

sycasey said:

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Klay hurt again!

No one would blame the Warriors if they lose this series.

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Torn ACL. Brutal.

philbert said:

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sycasey said:

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Klay hurt again!

No one would blame the Warriors if they lose this series.

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Torn ACL. Brutal.

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Yowch.

Probably no title run next year. Which is fine.