Discussion on Musk's DoGE ideas, the federal deficit, and GDP

24,486 Views | 549 Replies | Last: 43 min ago by DiabloWags
going4roses
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In reply to movielover • 2:22p, 2/26/25
movielover said:
Our Government:

- let in 35 - 55 million illegal under educated workers
- Biden flew in and spurred 8 - 15 million illegal immigrants himself
- ran up a crippling $36 Trillion in debt
- $1.1 Trillion in interest payments per year
- hasn't adjusted the Social Security system in years though people now live to be 88, or much older
- many urban schools have 20% or less of their students pass basic proficiency
- policies drove out middle class manufacturing jobs


Why did your government choose those policies? It's been decades in the making actually the truth is it started 100's of years ago ? We know who isn't responsible for none of those things listed
"Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction"
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DiabloWags
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 2:29p, 2/26/25
Anarchistbear said:
The debt is exploding as legislators rev up new tax cuts. DOGE is a smokescreen

Agreed.

And I've always claimed this given that the first thing that Trump and Mike Johnson did was increase the debt-ceiling by $4.5 TRILLION.

Trump and his cronies know full well that the revenues are lacking to balance the annual budget deficit.
Tax cuts to the Top 1%, tax cuts to social security, tax cuts for overtime, time cuts for tips.

Even if FUsk makes $1 Trillion in cuts, that's merely 2.8% of the national debt.

Yawn.


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DiabloWags
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In reply to movielover • 2:33p, 2/26/25
movielover said:
Our Government:

- let in 35 - 55 million illegal under educated workers
- Biden flew in and spurred 8 - 15 million illegal immigrants himself
- ran up a crippling $36 Trillion in debt
- $1.1 Trillion in interest payments per year
- hasn't adjusted the Social Security system in years though people now live to be 88, or much older
- many urban schools have 20% or less of their students pass basic proficiency
- policies drove out middle class manufacturing jobs

You're lying again.
Why do you keep lying?

Biden did not run up a crippling $36 Trillion in debt.
The debt under Biden increased from $28.4 Trillion to $35.4 Trillion.

+25%

For some reason, you ignore the FACT that under Trump the debt increased by 40%
About $8.2 Trillion according to the US Treasury Dept.

It increased 32% under Clinton.
It increased 105% under Bush.
It increased 70% under Obama. (served 2-terms, $4.2 trillion per term)
It increased 25% under Biden.


U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage 2025 | ConsumerAffairs

U.S. National Debt by Year


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sycasey
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 2:54p, 2/26/25
Anarchistbear said:
The debt is exploding as legislators rev up new tax cuts. DOGE is a smokescreen
Same old Republican stuff, in other words.
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movielover
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:20p, 2/26/25
Hence the quote: "Our Government".
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movielover
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:21p, 2/26/25
So no President in history has cut $100 Billion, and President Trump is attempting to cut $1 Trillion.

He's already trimmed 300,000 Federal employees.
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chazzed
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3:23p, 2/26/25
Again, DOGE is incompetent.


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bear2034
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In reply to movielover • 5:32p, 2/26/25
movielover said:
So no President in history has cut $100 Billion, and President Trump is attempting to cut $1 Trillion.

He's already trimmed 300,000 Federal employees.
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going4roses
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5:38p, 2/26/25
Are there enough open jobs for the people being layed off/fired ? I'm just asking because unless i am missing something there are clearly more pegs than holes …
"Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction"
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BearGoggles
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In reply to DiabloWags • 9:45p, 2/26/25
DiabloWags said:
BearGoggles said:


The lawfare is only delaying the inevitable. There is a 0% chance that the supreme court rules the chief executive/President is barred from having his subordinates perform an audit of executive agencies. And in that regard, Trump is setting up a direct challenge to the Impoundment Control Act. There's a good chance he wins that case as well.


You might want to review the Impoundment Control Act of 1974.

In Trump's telling, presidents were allowed to freely wield impoundment power until 1974. That's when the government, during the Watergate era, enacted the Impoundment Control Act, which restricts presidents from unilaterally impounding funds.

"This disaster of a law is clearly unconstitutional a blatant violation of the separation of powers," Trump said.

However, a long line of legal scholars, officials and judges from both major political parties including Brett Kavanaugh, who was appointed by Trump to the Supreme Court has rejected the idea that the president has a constitutional power to ignore spending laws. They say that the Constitution clearly gives Congress the power of the purse and that this includes the power to tell the executive branch how much and how little to spend on things (when those spending directives have passed both houses of Congress and been signed into law by a president, or when, in the face of a presidential veto, Congress passes the spending law with a supermajority in both chambers).

Can Trump ignore Congress' spending laws? The debate over 'impoundment' : Planet Money : NPR
You're missing the forest for the trees. Barring a specific Congressional earmark (e.g., an appropriation to build a bridge in Berkeley), Trump has broad discretion as to how the money is spent and to whom grants are given.

It is not impounding to cancel certain discretionary expenditures such as contracts with NGOs. When it comes to USAID in particular, the Secretary of State - by statute - has discretion as to how to spend money.

You're also ignoring the fact that Trump and the republicans can enact whatever budget they want via reconciliation.
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bear2034
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11:33p, 2/26/25
Since DOGE is cutting government, is Antifa pro-DOGE or against it?
They've been awfully quiet.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to bear2034 • 2:48a, 2/27/25
bear2034 said:
Since DOGE is cutting government, is Antifa pro-DOGE or against it?
They've been awfully quiet.
They've been awfully quiet for several years now. I know, it's tough to keep pushing a Boogeyman that isn't showing signs of life.
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socaltownie
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6:42a, 2/27/25
Really we HAVE to start from a common framework.

https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/federal-revenue-vs-spending/

This is just what is so ****ing maddening about our modern politics (like to the point of just tuning out and working on my garden).

1) We can NOT expect citizens to become policy wonks. It isn't fair to ask them to do that and frankly, in that direction lies madness.

2) So it falls to political LEADers, the media, responsible citizens to act responsibly like use facts and figures like the above.

3) And then we could get to a rational discussion.

But because of all the god damm distraction (and in some cases outright lies) we can 't.

That pessimism aside we can harken back to Auden and take responsibility for our own actions in a time of darkness and at least on message boards affiliated with a sports program we all love........USE Facts.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to socaltownie • 6:49a, 2/27/25
I'm so cynical…I'm not sure many/most from either party even want to have a rational discussion, as much as they just want to obtain/retain power. Facts can get in the way.
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going4roses
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 7:20a, 2/27/25
tequila4kapp said:
I'm so cynical…I'm not sure many/most from either party even want to have a rational discussion, as much as they just want to obtain/retain power. Facts can get in the way.


Hmm interesting… I have always been cynical of this country and it's governance not one time has the US government (EITHER PARTY) made decisions which produced any tangible/positive impact to anyone that looks like me, shares my Amerikkkan experience ( group level/systemic).



"Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction"
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oski003
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In reply to going4roses • 7:26a, 2/27/25
going4roses said:
tequila4kapp said:
I'm so cynical…I'm not sure many/most from either party even want to have a rational discussion, as much as they just want to obtain/retain power. Facts can get in the way.


Hmm interesting… I have always been cynical of this country and it's governance not one time has the US government (EITHER PARTY) made decisions which produced any tangible/positive impact to anyone that looks like me, shares my Amerikkkan experience ( group level/systemic).



The US government has certainly made decisions which produced a tangible/positive impact on African Americans. However, these decisions may not have had a tangible/positive impact on folks with your mindset.
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movielover
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9:08a, 2/27/25


Congress members themselves are sitting on NGO boards? I know family members do.

C-A members threatening to sell secrets, FBI erasing files?

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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 9:20a, 2/27/25
movielover said:

C-A members threatening to sell secrets, FBI erasing files?

Treat people like dirt and they get angry and look for ways to get even.
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socaltownie
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 9:24a, 2/27/25
Fox spinning something stupid. People get fired all the time (yes, even from the cia). The biggest issue is whether Doge will do it smartly- following protocols that must be in place to minimize how much material people can take with them out the door.
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 9:45a, 2/27/25
Sounds like treason.
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going4roses
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In reply to movielover • 9:57a, 2/27/25
movielover
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10:18a, 2/27/25
I love his enthusiasm, but I don't think one million people will buy the Gold Card. I'd like to see deeper analysis - I can see new wealthy citizens driving up home prices.

On the positive side, they'll be investing more here.

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movielover
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11:09a, 2/27/25
So upper middle class Liberal Democrats can telecommute from their wealthy white suburbs.

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oski003
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In reply to movielover • 11:13a, 2/27/25
movielover said:
So upper middle class Liberal Democrats can telecommute from their wealthy white suburbs.



That's nuts!
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bear2034
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11:32a, 2/27/25
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bear2034
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11:38a, 2/27/25

Does the CIA edit Wikipedia pages?
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 11:49a, 2/27/25
movielover said:
Sounds like treason.
Yeah, it would be treason, but treat the people you're firing with some respect and dignity and treason will be less likely. I can't believe your guys can't figure that out.
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 11:52a, 2/27/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Sounds like treason.
Yeah, it would be treason, but treat the people you're firing with some respect and dignity and treason will be less likely. I can't believe your guys can't figure that out.


I agree the LAYOFFS could be handled more diplomatically. Thank people for their service, offer transition services, etc. Act like professionals, no dancing on the graves. These are mothers, grandmother's, some Veterans, some disabled.

Act like adults.
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Anarchistbear
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12:20p, 2/27/25
30% of federal employees are veterans. This is yet another case of Trump throwing out his base with the bath water
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bear2034
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12:38p, 2/27/25
The other 70% are Kamala are the lesser of the two evils fanatics. In D.C., 90% vote Democrat.
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Anarchistbear
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In reply to bear2034 • 12:48p, 2/27/25
bear2034 said:
The other 70% are Kamala are the lesser of the two evils fanatics. In D.C., 90% vote Democrat.


I assume you aren't in favor of DEI preferences for veterans, right?

And about 7% of the federal workforce is in DC
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bear2034
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 12:52p, 2/27/25
What about neighboring Virgnia and Maryland?
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graguna
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12:52p, 2/27/25
its too bad Elon has the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old autistic boy.
naming a govt agency after a grifter meme coin is just dumb




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bear2034
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In reply to graguna • 12:54p, 2/27/25
Trump has two African-Americans in his cabinet and the Dems want to deport one of them?
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going4roses
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In reply to bear2034 • 1:09p, 2/27/25
No
"Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction"
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