Thanks, but I clearly asked "movielover" for a reply in his own words.
Just as I had asked the Moderator why AunBear was given a permanent ban.

Not you.

movielover said:

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Cal88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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movielover said:

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I'm sure he has 'fun' w his buddy "Globalist Gary", aka "Carbon Tax Cohn".

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You clearly dont believe in FREE TRADE.

Go ahead and tell us in your own words, why TARIFFS are bullish and why the stockmarket is wrong.

I'll wait.

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Free trade can be dangerous, and tariffs can be counterproductive, trade should be managed on a case by case basis.

For example, if we had free trade with China in the auto sector, the entire automotive sector in the US would be wiped out in a decade or two, max. See the TV and consumer electronics market. You have to weigh advantages from importing cheaper products with negative externalities (loss of high paying jobs in an industry with very high multiplier effects).

I would let in some Chinese manufacturers setting up shop and supliers in the US or going into JVs with domestic partners, best of both worlds, same as what is done with Japanese companies.

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Ross Perot spelled out the critical importance of protecting our steel and aluminium industries most clearly. In WWII we were able to repurpose our manufacturing base to produce wartime goods - we had the resources, supply chain, and know how.

The same can be said for other industries like electronics, pharmaceuticals, even logistics (Panama).

There are costs, benefits, and national interests that extend beyond Wall Street day traders.

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You forgot the part where no one in America wants to work for $2 an hour.
Maybe your MAGA friends are interested?

movielover said:

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.

There are costs, benefits, and national interests that extend beyond Wall Street day traders.

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Cool story.

Doesn't sound like you have figured out that we aren't a manufacturing nation anymore.
That ship set sale decades ago.
That's why Perot is irrelevant.

But we are the undisputed GLOBAL LEADER in SERVICES.


The United States Remains the World's Largest Services Exporter and Importer in 2020, Reports USITC | United States International Trade Commission

tequila4kapp said:

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Protective tariffs increase demand for US produced goods. Per reports yesterday (from memory), manufacturing was up more than expected and the most in like 2 years.

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Ummm.... did you ever consider the fact that the reason why manufacturing was up more than expected in February was because businesses (especially in auto parts) were "front-running" the most anticipated tariff policies in American history?

And for what it's worth, feel free to check out the quote in the article below by JP Morgan economists who reflected on Trump's first term and noted that, "no long-term improvement in manufacturing was observed as a result of the 2018 tariffs"

Trump is like Herbert Hoover 2.0
Can't wait till April 2nd.

Tariffs are INFLATIONARY.
Period.

And they are paid by the U.S. importer on record.
Think that importer is gonna "eat" that tariff?

Think again.

US Manufacturing Output Accelerates in February

tequila4kapp said:

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An entire year of Trump's 1st term was economically lost thanks to Covid. That may impact an analysis such as this.

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Also, Dementia Biden was asleep at the sippy cup.

tequila4kapp said:

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An entire year of Trump's 1st term was economically lost thanks to Covid. That may impact an analysis such as this.

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Trump's GDP growth 2017-2019 was essentially the same as 2010-2016 under Obama. It was significantly weaker than under Biden.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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An entire year of Trump's 1st term was economically lost thanks to Covid. That may impact an analysis such as this.

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Trump's GDP growth 2017-2020 was essentially the same as 2010-2016 under Obama. It was significantly weaker than under Biden.

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Exactly.
But for some reason, the Trump "Kool-Aid" drinkers don't want to believe this FACT.

You still following me around at 7am in the morning?

You're OBSESSION with me continues.
Get some help.

Does Trump Deserve Credit For the Economy? The Numbers Say No. | Washington Monthly

oski003 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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An entire year of Trump's 1st term was economically lost thanks to Covid. That may impact an analysis such as this.

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Trump's GDP growth 2017-2020 was essentially the same as 2010-2016 under Obama. It was significantly weaker than under Biden.

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Exactly.
But for some reason, the Trump "Kool-Aid" drinkers don't want to believe this FACT.

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For some reason, the Biden "Kool-Aid" drinkers don't want to believe in the economy being SHUT DOWN because of man-made COVID during Trump's administration and then REOPENED in the next administration.

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I made a typo in my earlier post. I was comparing Trump's 2017-2019 economic numbers and was ignoring 2020. For similar reasons, because of the mortgage crisis, I started Obama's numbers in 2010.

oski003 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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An entire year of Trump's 1st term was economically lost thanks to Covid. That may impact an analysis such as this.

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Trump's GDP growth 2017-2020 was essentially the same as 2010-2016 under Obama. It was significantly weaker than under Biden.

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Exactly.
But for some reason, the Trump "Kool-Aid" drinkers don't want to believe this FACT.

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For some reason, the Biden "Kool-Aid" drinkers don't want to believe in the economy being SHUT DOWN because of man-made COVID during Trump's administration and then REOPENED in the next administration.

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And Trillions more in government spending and increased money supply.

Ya Think Lisa?
Ya Think?

"It doesn't help the president when you have somebody who clearly is not worried about whether or not Social Security benefits are going to be there for him" leading the effort to shrink the Social Security Administration, said Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), referring to Musk, the world's richest person.

"It worries Americans all over the country," she said of people who rely on Social Security benefits to live day to day. "This is why Social Security has been kind of viewed as the untouchable from a political perspective, and why the president made very clear we're not dealing with Social Security."

She said Musk's claim that Social Security is a "Ponzi scheme" and rife with fraud "doesn't do anything to calm the anxiety of people who are already anxious about what's going on with some of the safety-net programs."

Over 400 campsites at one of Pennsylvania's most popular destinations are closed due to staffing shortages from the DOGE cuts. Suspect more of this will happen across the country. Just really, really stupid and unfortunate in an era where too many ppl sit inside all day already. pic.twitter.com/rlZlErKSBI

— Isaac Saul (@Ike_Saul) March 20, 2025

New @foxnewspoll on DOGE and government spending:
•31% describe national debt as “a crisis”
•51% oppose reducing federal workforce
•65% concerned not enough planning has gone into spending cuts
Musk job performance at DOGE
•40/58https://t.co/9n9AKGXG2q

— Jared Halpern (@JaredHalpern) March 19, 2025

sycasey said:

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Over 400 campsites at one of Pennsylvania's most popular destinations are closed due to staffing shortages from the DOGE cuts. Suspect more of this will happen across the country. Just really, really stupid and unfortunate in an era where too many ppl sit inside all day already. pic.twitter.com/rlZlErKSBI

— Isaac Saul (@Ike_Saul) March 20, 2025

New @foxnewspoll on DOGE and government spending:
•31% describe national debt as “a crisis”
•51% oppose reducing federal workforce
•65% concerned not enough planning has gone into spending cuts
Musk job performance at DOGE
•40/58https://t.co/9n9AKGXG2q

— Jared Halpern (@JaredHalpern) March 19, 2025

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I am glad these popular summer destination aren't closed during the summer.

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Don't worry, people will get hired back eventually. Get your binkie.

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Firing people and then hiring them back doesn't seem like something a "Department of Efficiency" would do.

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In your world money holds no value.

MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Don't worry, people will get hired back eventually. Get your binkie.

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Firing people and then hiring them back doesn't seem like something a "Department of Efficiency" would do.

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In your world money holds no value.

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In your world, people have no value.

People are not parts you can cast aside for a year or two and then plug them back into their sockets.

MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Don't worry, people will get hired back eventually. Get your binkie.

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Firing people and then hiring them back doesn't seem like something a "Department of Efficiency" would do.

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In your world money holds no value.

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What? If you hire them back you have to start paying them again. How much money was actually saved there?

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Don't worry, people will get hired back eventually. Get your binkie.

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Firing people and then hiring them back doesn't seem like something a "Department of Efficiency" would do.

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In your world money holds no value.

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What? If you hire them back you have to start paying them again. How much money was actually saved there?

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Having to fight DOGI may seem to be inefficient; however, in the long run, it will be more efficient than letting DOGI run things.

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Don't worry, people will get hired back eventually. Get your binkie.

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Firing people and then hiring them back doesn't seem like something a "Department of Efficiency" would do.

---

In your world money holds no value.

---

What? If you hire them back you have to start paying them again. How much money was actually saved there?

---

Having to fight DOGI may seem to be inefficient; however, in the long run, it will be more efficient than letting DOGI run things.

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New acronym alert!

movielover said:

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Ross Perot spelled out the critical importance of protecting our steel and aluminium industries most clearly. In WWII we were able to repurpose our manufacturing base to produce wartime goods - we had the resources, supply chain, and know how.

The same can be said for other industries like electronics, pharmaceuticals, even logistics (Panama).

There are costs, benefits, and national interests that extend beyond Wall Street day traders.

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If Trump's tariffs are so beneficial for the steel and aluminum industries, then why did THE LARGEST U.S. STEEL PRODUCER, NUCOR say yesterday that they expect to only earn 50 to 60 cents per share of earnings in Q1, when analysts were looking for earnings of $1.06?

The guidance is surprising, if not shocking given that Nucor reported EPS of $1.22 in Q4 of 2024 and $3.46 in Q1 of 2024.

I repeat: We are the WORLD LEADER in services, not manufacturing.
That ship sailed decades ago and is as old as Ross Perot.

Manufacturing employment peaked in June 1979 at 19.6 million.

In December of 2015, manufacturing jobs totaled 12.3 million and accounted for 8.6% of nonfarm employment, compared with 9.1 million and 30.3% in January 1939.

Just the FACTS.

Per DOGE & Treasury Secretary, 80% of the IRS' 3.5B budget goes to contractors and licenses. Their system modernization effort is 30 years late and 15B over budget.

Is this the same Treasury Secretary that said that tariffs would be:

"like a loaded gun on a table used for negotiating, but rarely used"

I believe so.
His credibility is certainly questionable.