I often wonder how a team of all alphas (magic, Jordan, Kobe, bird, shaq) would work together. Would they go undefeated, or implode?

Anyone else notice Ty Wallace got some PT for the Clips?
He's hanging in there!

concordtom said:

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Anyone else notice Ty Wallace got some PT for the Clips?
He's hanging in there!

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Yep, good to see him on the floor.

But the main reason Wallace got into the game was the aforementioned event where Durant fouled Beverley late in the game and then both players got kicked out of the game with their second technicals. The common foul was not a shooting foul but the Warriors I think already had 5 fouls for the quarter so Houston was going to shoot 2. But with Beverley out of the game, the Warriors got to pick someone to come in off the Clippers' bench to take Beverley's place and shoot the free throws.

So the Warriors picked Wallace, maybe thinking he was a bad free throw shooter. So basically the Warriors chose for Wallace to get playing time. Ty made both FTs, which was good to see, and the Clips subbed him back out shortly thereafter.

The best point I was making is simply that he's on the roster!

Thx for the recap! Kudos to Ty for sinking those two.

Wow - complete collapse the last quarter and a half by the Warriors. Hopefully this wakes them up. Great shooting by Williams of the Clips.

Honestly?

I no longer consider the Warriors the favorite to win the title after that game. You can see that the other teams are way hungrier than they are. The Clips won't take them out, but the Rockets will. Or the Bucks in the Finals. Some team that wants it more. This is what happens to dynastic teams after a few deep playoff runs in a row. You can't keep it up forever.

Yep.

I watched the entire game 2 against Clippers last night and it was an OUCH!

Warriors were up by 31 points in the third quarter and then slowly but steadly collapsed. Unbelievable. It was the biggest come back in the NBA play-off history. Not only against a defending champion, but, the entire NBA play-off history. OUCH!

Then, the news came that Cousins may have torn quad and maybe out for the season (let us hope not).

If Cousins is not available, even if Warriors get by the Clippers in 5 or 6 games, they will have a heck of a tough time against a very good and experienced Rockets. Remember, Rockets almost beat the Warriors last year until Chris Paul was injured and things turned around.

Go Bears!

I'm a Warriors fan but find the 'unbeatable' and 'on another level' narratives utterly ridiculous and false.

I don't know what else can be done to prove that while the Warriors are justifiably a favorite, they're not remotely dominating the league. HOU was the better team last year...they lost the Finals in 2016, they lost 25 games this year...

...their effort and attitude is atrocious at times...I saw the comeback last night coming a mile away. Their effort once they got the lead was sad.

Charles Barkley saw the fall and said it was reminiscent of when he had his thigh injury the muscle just rolls right up light a window shade. He suspected cousins to be out a good long while.

Then cameras came up with this shot of cousins' muscle doing just as Charles had said.
And now news reports say that cousins will be lucky to make it back by the finals.
He is probably done for the year, it suggested.



Warriors have looked like champs at times, but at other times like champs that aremprime for an upset surprise.
I've said earlier in this thread I could see them losing to the Rockets for this reason. Last night was exhibit A. Durant played like a puss.

sycasey said:

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Honestly?

I no longer consider the Warriors the favorite to win the title after that game. You can see that the other teams are way hungrier than they are. The Clips won't take them out, but the Rockets will. Or the Bucks in the Finals. Some team that wants it more. This is what happens to dynastic teams after a few deep playoff runs in a row. You can't keep it up forever.

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I predict they will be able to turn it on when they need to, just enough to win another one this season.

concordtom said:

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Charles Barkley saw the fall and said it was reminiscent of when he had his thigh injury the muscle just rolls right up light a window shade. He suspected cousins to be out a good long while.

Then cameras came up with this shot of cousins' muscle doing just as Charles had said.
And now news reports say that cousins will be lucky to make it back by the finals.
He is probably done for the year, it suggested.



Warriors have looked like champs at times, but at other times like champs that aremprime for an upset surprise.
I've said earlier in this thread I could see them losing to the Rockets for this reason. Last night was exhibit A. Durant played like a puss.

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They needed a CP3 injury and a historic 0-21 straight on 3 pointers to beat a better HOU team last year.

I get that a 31pt lead is more like 15-20 pts 25 years ago due to the higher number of possessions and velocity of 3pt attempts, but to blow a 31 pt lead in one 18 minutes requires a lack of will on defense. It's hard to get the rhythm back on offense when you've mentally checked out.

Kerr needs to lay into these guys. He should be embarrassed he let it happen.

Feel bad for Demarcus.his earning potential falling thru the floor.

It would be nice if he could come back, but I think there's something in the NBA salary rules that says if a vet returns to same team he has to get at least X (which I recall as $10M), and that doesn't fit in with the Warriors, so it seems he practically HAS to go elsewhere.

Per ESPN, Cousins has a torn quad and will be out "indefinitely". OUCH!

I anticipate that Warriors will get beat Clippers in 6 or 7 games and then will have a very tough times against Rockets without Cousins.

Go Bears!

The Warriors weren't THAT great with Cousins on the floor. There's an argument that their offense and defense actually flow better with Looney or Bogut at the center position, surrounded by the other starters.

The problem is the lack of depth. Boogie feasting on bench units was a potential card they could play and now they can't.

Got to hand it to the A's for tweaking the Warriors with this ad after Khris Davis signed a new contract with the A's yesterday.

https://instagr.am/p/BwgT4hmn5Go

If you are referring to the 0-27 night last year, lightning only strikes once.

And Houston still won. That's a very, very good team ... GS-Houston could be a classic.

Watching the game now it is interesting to focus just on Klay. When he is on D he rarely even hand checks his man. On O, his defender alternates between a hand check jersey grab and a two hand body hug the entire time they guard him. No whistle. Curious how that is allowed.
I assume under his Code of Honor Klay considers it pu$$ie to play D like his opponent plays D on him.

Look at the way defenders guard Harden. They play him to avoid a foul and thus give him straight paths to the basket to be picked up by the interior defender. They concede if they play him straight up, Harden will get the foul call

Nobody has that luxury - in the history of basketball. Nobody gets played as soft as defenders do on Harden due to knowing full well how referees let Harden manipulate them. Harden really is aggravating to watch play. A serial flopper and walker, plays to get fouled, zero effort on defense.

bearister said:

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Watching the game now it is interesting to focus just on Klay. When he is on D he rarely even hand checks his man. On O, his defender alternates between a hand check jersey grab and a two hand body hug the entire time they guard him. No whistle. Curious how that is allowed.
I assume under his Code of Honor Klay considers it pu$$ie to play D like his opponent plays D on him.

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Off-ball grabbing and tugging has rarely been called in the history of the NBA. It's just the Warriors rely on a lot of off-ball movement to set up their offense, so you notice it more.

sycasey said:

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bearister said:

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Watching the game now it is interesting to focus just on Klay. When he is on D he rarely even hand checks his man. On O, his defender alternates between a hand check jersey grab and a two hand body hug the entire time they guard him. No whistle. Curious how that is allowed.
I assume under his Code of Honor Klay considers it pu$$ie to play D like his opponent plays D on him.

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Off-ball grabbing and tugging has rarely been called in the history of the NBA. It's just the Warriors rely on a lot of off-ball movement to set up their offense, so you notice it more.

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I remember teams (especially Stanford) absolutely assaulting Crabbe off the ball, shoving, grabbing, holding him. if the recent rules had been in place, he would have been even more dominant at Cal

HoopDreams said:

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sycasey said:

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bearister said:

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Watching the game now it is interesting to focus just on Klay. When he is on D he rarely even hand checks his man. On O, his defender alternates between a hand check jersey grab and a two hand body hug the entire time they guard him. No whistle. Curious how that is allowed.
I assume under his Code of Honor Klay considers it pu$$ie to play D like his opponent plays D on him.

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Off-ball grabbing and tugging has rarely been called in the history of the NBA. It's just the Warriors rely on a lot of off-ball movement to set up their offense, so you notice it more.

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I remember teams (especially Stanford) absolutely assaulting Crabbe off the ball, shoving, grabbing, holding him. if the recent rules had been in place, he would have been even more dominant at Cal

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Except, Cal, Stanford, PAC-12 refs, Larry Scott...

James Harden's style of play and ability to take advantage of the way the game is officiated can't detract from the fact that he is one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the game.

Would he have put up these numbers 20 years ago? Of course not. But Steph Curry would have been hammered by every post player in the league when he tried to cut through the lane, and would have been pushed and shoved every time he had the ball.

The game today is the game today, and Harden analyzed it, applied his tremendous athleticism and basketball IQ, and became an almost unstoppable force. It's not his fault the officials officiate the way they do, nor that the percentages dictate that he should play the way he does. If the Rockets' style is annoying, it's no different than the three-happy state of the game at all levels that annoys old-timers who love post play and brute force around the basket.

Disliking Harden for what he does is the same as disliking Curry for what he does -- neither could have been the same player 20 years ago, and both have adjusted their games to how the sport is played today.

Astounds me that even the talking heads always seem to mention Paul's injury as the defining factor, but never seems mention the Iguodala injury in the 4th quarter of game 3 where the Warriors pummeled Houston on the return to Oakland.

Taking advantage, Houston (with Paul) went on to win the next two, but once Paul went out BOTH teams were without key players.

Andre may not be as big a star as Chris Paul, but with him Golden State was a completely different team and he is absolutely key to defending the Rockets and taking advantage of their lack of size on D.

ClayK said:

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James Harden's style of play and ability to take advantage of the way the game is officiated can't detract from the fact that he is one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the game.

Would he have put up these numbers 20 years ago? Of course not. But Steph Curry would have been hammered by every post player in the league when he tried to cut through the lane, and would have been pushed and shoved every time he had the ball.

The game today is the game today, and Harden analyzed it, applied his tremendous athleticism and basketball IQ, and became an almost unstoppable force. It's not his fault the officials officiate the way they do, nor that the percentages dictate that he should play the way he does. If the Rockets' style is annoying, it's no different than the three-happy state of the game at all levels that annoys old-timers who love post play and brute force around the basket.

Disliking Harden for what he does is the same as disliking Curry for what he does -- neither could have been the same player 20 years ago, and both have adjusted their games to how the sport is played today.

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Kudos to Harden for being immensely successful. I don't dislike HIM for his style of play, but I still don't care for the style. The Charles Barkleys of the world might not like Curry's style, but I would argue that it's beautiful and many, if not most, agree. Harden is tremendously effective, but does anybody like watching it? In my rule book, when a player with the ball initiates contact like that, it should be an offensive foul more often.

Agree 100%...

That said, many of Harden's sweep "fouls" are legit and a result of him simply being faster than the defender who is leaving an arm/hand extended a little to close, but he's gotten so much better at sweeping through the defender's arm and getting off a quality shot there is nothing left to do but shake the head...now if the refs would only call it equally for other players as they do for Harden.

What bugs me more is the flopping upon initiating contact...this seems to me to be the least consistent thing called in the league today.

91Cal said:

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Astounds me that even the talking heads always seem to mention Paul's injury as the defining factor, but never seems mention the Iguodala injury in the 4th quarter of game 3 where the Warriors pummeled Houston on the return to Oakland.

Taking advantage, Houston (with Paul) went on to win the next two, but once Paul went out BOTH teams were without key players.

Andre may not be as big a star as Chris Paul, but with him Golden State was a completely different team and he is absolutely key to defending the Rockets and taking advantage of their lack of size on D.

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I also don't think that "Chris Paul playoff injury" can be considered a flukey thing anymore. He's old, he has an injury history, and he was playing huge minutes just to help his team keep up with GSW. He was likely to blow a tire at some point.

ClayK said:

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Disliking Harden for what he does is the same as disliking Curry for what he does -- neither could have been the same player 20 years ago, and both have adjusted their games to how the sport is played today.

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Uh, no

ClayK said:

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James Harden's style of play and ability to take advantage of the way the game is officiated can't detract from the fact that he is one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the game.

Would he have put up these numbers 20 years ago? Of course not. But Steph Curry would have been hammered by every post player in the league when he tried to cut through the lane, and would have been pushed and shoved every time he had the ball.

The game today is the game today, and Harden analyzed it, applied his tremendous athleticism and basketball IQ, and became an almost unstoppable force. It's not his fault the officials officiate the way they do, nor that the percentages dictate that he should play the way he does. If the Rockets' style is annoying, it's no different than the three-happy state of the game at all levels that annoys old-timers who love post play and brute force around the basket.

Disliking Harden for what he does is the same as disliking Curry for what he does -- neither could have been the same player 20 years ago, and both have adjusted their games to how the sport is played today.

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We're not just talking about legitimate fouls, even by today's standards. Take a look at the first play in this youtube where he blatantly, egregiously hooks the defender (and gets away with it) and tell me if you think this play is ethically or stylistically equivalent to what Curry does. Later in the youtube, he hooks LeBron almost as badly.



There's gamesmanship everywhere, and lots of players flop, but refs have let Harden make a joke of the game at times.

Edited to add: and yes he's still one of the greatest offensive players in history. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Anyone for a new NBA rule to minimize flopping? How would you articulate the rule?

Mine would be encourage refs to make flop calls and then all flop calls are subject to automatic review. If the call is affirmed then it is a technical foul. The flop was unheard of when I was growing up since it was considered unmanly to ever act like contact had any effect on you. When did the flop era begin? Was it Bill Laimbeer?

Quote:

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Mine would be encourage refs to make flop calls and then all flop calls are subject to automatic review. If the call is affirmed then it is a technical foul.

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+1

I'm a huge Steph Curry fan, but he's been known to attempt to draw fouls as well ... it's part of the game.

Granted, Harden does it more, and of course he gets away with things; everyone does. Generally, though, a move he developed gets him to the line: He has worked hard on extending his arms towards the basket after he gathers, showing the ball to the defenders, who react instinctively to knock it away. But Harden anticipates that and extends even further, making the defender hit his forearms, not the ball. And Harden is strong and skilled enough to still finish.

Do I prefer the Warriors' style of play? Yes, no question. Do I think Steph is a great player, a generational player, a tremendous leader and literally, a game-changer? Yes. But in many ways, so is Harden, and both have shaped their games to the way basketball is played in 2019.

I guess the series is set to start Sunday, and I've already told my wife that when those games are on, don't expect much conversation.