Some musings about the Democratic Party's deep challenge

111,702 Views | 1183 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by MinotStateBeav
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

Aunburdened said:

We saw the NYC mayor's race, so we already know this to be the case, but still



The thing is these are not populist democrats, they are flat out communists that are using the democratic party machine to essentially take over the party from within using their own infrastructure. They are like a parasite.

So the same thing that happened with Republicans and MAGA.

People are just tired of the status quo on both sides. It's hitting later for Democrats but it's hitting.
Anarchistbear
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We need two new parties- a fascist and communist- to satisfy Dems and Repubs. Both would wither on the vine.
MinotStateBeav
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Aunburdened said:

We saw the NYC mayor's race, so we already know this to be the case, but still



The thing is these are not populist democrats, they are flat out communists that are using the democratic party machine to essentially take over the party from within using their own infrastructure. They are like a parasite.

So the same thing that happened with Republicans and MAGA.

People are just tired of the status quo on both sides. It's hitting later for Democrats but it's hitting.

No Not like MAGA at all. MAGA holds conservative values. The kind of values the conservative GOP left behind. MAGA was created to remind them what we stand for. Communists do not hold the same values as Democrats.
bearister
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At least 50% of Americans have a negative view of MAGA. This is why:

The criticisms of the Make America Great Again (MAGA) movement focus on democratic erosion, social division, and rejection of established facts.

Critics argue these core values harm democratic norms and public trust.

Threats to Democratic Norms
Election Denial:
Promoting false claims that the 2020 election was stolen undermines trust in democratic systems.

Political Violence:
Supporting or justifying physical force to achieve political goals weakens the rule of law.

Authoritarian Leanings:
Valuing a strong, unchecked leader over standard democratic processes.

Social and Cultural Divisiveness
Xenophobia and Racism:
Blaming immigration and multiculturalism for national decline fosters discrimination and exclusion.

Us vs. Them Mentality:
Creating deep cultural polarization by labeling opponents as enemies or unpatriotic.

Erosion of Fact:
Rejecting verifiable science, historical records, and mainstream journalism in favor of conspiracy theories.

Institutional and Systemic Harm
Attack on Free Press:
Hostility toward independent media outlets harms public access to neutral information.

Moral Compromise:
Tolerating extremist behavior, hate speech, and derogatory rhetoric within political groups.
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BearlySane88
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Now do the majority of Americans who have a negative view of socialists.
Muckieeye
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Two questions:
What is your source for the 75% claim?
Are the people in question responding to an actual example or definition of true socialism, or to some silly MAGA low information voter definition of socialism?
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives...
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative.
-John Stewart Mill
bearister
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BearlySane88 said:

Now do the majority of Americans who have a negative view of socialists.


Every Trumpist thinks that anyone that isn't buying the con is a socialist. Trump and his family are amassing billions because they were put in the position to do so by naive people that think like that.

The Trumps seeking immunity from tax audits should be like a 2 x 4 to their thick skulls knocking some sense into them yet they still don't get it that they've been taken.
“Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside”
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“I love Cal deeply, by the way, what are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
BearlySane88
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bearister said:

BearlySane88 said:

Now do the majority of Americans who have a negative view of socialists.


Every Trumpist thinks that anyone that isn't buying the con is a socialist.


Nope, there's plenty of democrats who aren't socialists which is why a majority of Americans don't like socialists. Do your little AI analysis on that for us.
bearister
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It's called gaslighting. I tried cases against attorneys that utilized it. They always lost, but the judges and juries did a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what they were witnessing.

*The possibility exits that it is non responsive involuntary non linear thinking.
*AI, like legal research, is of no use to individuals that can't craft the proper prompt.

*The undisputed King of All Gaslighters was Charlie Manson's trial counsel, Irving Kanarek. Kanarek once objected to a witness identifying himself: Kanarek claimed that the witness's name was hearsay because the witness had first heard it from his mother.
“Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside”
—Jim Morrison

“I love Cal deeply, by the way, what are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
BearlySane88
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bearister said:

It's called gaslighting. I tried cases against attorneys that utilized it. They always lost, but the judges and juries did a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what they were witnessing.

*The possibility exits that it is non responsive involuntary non linear thinking.


I'm doing a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what part of my post you think is gaslighting or what this has to do with your court room history. Let me know when your AI has finished analyzing why a majority of Americans dislike socialists.
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Aunburdened said:

We saw the NYC mayor's race, so we already know this to be the case, but still



The thing is these are not populist democrats, they are flat out communists that are using the democratic party machine to essentially take over the party from within using their own infrastructure. They are like a parasite.

So the same thing that happened with Republicans and MAGA.

People are just tired of the status quo on both sides. It's hitting later for Democrats but it's hitting.

No Not like MAGA at all. MAGA holds conservative values. The kind of values the conservative GOP left behind. MAGA was created to remind them what we stand for. Communists do not hold the same values as Democrats.

MAGA definitely does not hold the same values as the Reagan conservative party I grew up with. Reagan was very much in favor of immigrants, for example.
dajo9
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Aunburdened said:

We saw the NYC mayor's race, so we already know this to be the case, but still



The thing is these are not populist democrats, they are flat out communists that are using the democratic party machine to essentially take over the party from within using their own infrastructure. They are like a parasite.

So the same thing that happened with Republicans and MAGA.

People are just tired of the status quo on both sides. It's hitting later for Democrats but it's hitting.

No Not like MAGA at all. MAGA holds conservative values. The kind of values the conservative GOP left behind. MAGA was created to remind them what we stand for. Communists do not hold the same values as Democrats.

MAGA definitely does not hold the same values as the Reagan conservative party I grew up with. Reagan was very much in favor of immigrants, for example.


The California Reagan Republicans I know are democrats now. One consistent thing - the party calling itself conservative is in favor of policies that explode the debt. You are what you do. Talk is cheap.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
tequila4kapp
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Aunburdened said:

tequila4kapp said:

Aunburdened said:

tequila4kapp said:

I'll put this here instead of starting at new thread. A little info for our friends who say the DSA are not real socialists or communists and just want to continue the Demo traditions of FDR (ie, they are just progressive Ds)…

A partial transcript of Democratic Socialists of America co-chair Megan Romer's interview with Shannon Bream on Fox (emphasis added):
Quote:

SHANNON BREAM: We're going to put up on the screen a few of the things that are part of your platform. And I want to ask you, just give me sort of a true or false on these. Abolish the Senate?

ROMER: True.
BREAM: OK, replace the presidency and Supreme Court as we now know them?
ROMER: Yep
BREAM: Abolish ICE?
ROMER: Absolutely.
BREAM: Abolish borders and give amnesty to anyone currently in the US illegally?
ROMER: As a long-term plan, yep.
BREAM: Defund the Pentagon?
ROMER: Absolutely.
BREAM: Abolish prisons, at least in large part?
ROMER: Yeah, again, as part of a long-term program, yeah?
BREAM: OK, so no prisons. Government or public ownership of most large corporations?
ROMER: Yeah, absolutely.


Ds need to distance themselves from this crazy sh*t.

I wonder why you don't post the source material for the above quotes? Either it's because you don't know and are just reposting something you read on social media without attribution (common among conservatives) or because you realize that when Fox News goes to interview someone with the DSA, they are intentionally going to pick someone with the wackiest views to attempt to discredit everyone who associates with that banner.

It was a Fox interview so there should not be any confusion. Unless you are challenging the accuracy of the transcript your complaint is pointless.

It's all right there on the DSA web site and is not just some crazy fringe person:
https://program.dsausa.org/#demand-end-mass-incarceration

Would you like me to go through the Democratic and Republican Party positions and point out the crazy things they support or do those not count because they don't have the scary "socialist" word in the title?

You started out by dismissing the validity of the positions - Fox just brought on a crazy person to say crazy things.

I linked to the DSC agenda, which includes everything the DSC representative said.

You have now switched to "well, the other parties are crazy too"

Which is it?

Nothing is as crazy as the DSC agenda - no police, no prisons, no borders, eliminate the Senate and Presidency - both selected by and subservient to the House, etc. etc. etc.
tequila4kapp
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Congressmen Tom Suozzi (NY-03) and Adam Gray (CA-13) - the only two Democrats to flip Trump-won districts in the 2024 cycle - put out The Promise To America Pledge in June. It has 6 principles:

Capitalism > Socialism
"We want safety, not lawlessness"
"responsible, not reckless" regarding government spending and balanced budgets
Patriotism (proud to be an American)
Effective Government
Common Purpose

This is deemed centrist. (folks might want to pause and really think about that for a second)

Only 10 of 204 D members of the House and 5 House candidates have signed it.

https://www.thepromisetoamerica.com/about
BearlySane88
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tequila4kapp said:

Congressmen Tom Suozzi (NY-03) and Adam Gray (CA-13) - the only two Democrats to flip Trump-won districts in the 2024 cycle - put out The Promise To America Pledge in June. It has 6 principles:

Capitalism > Socialism
"We want safety, not lawlessness"
"responsible, not reckless" regarding government spending and balanced budgets
Patriotism (proud to be an American)
Effective Government
Common Purpose

This is deemed centrist. (folks might want to pause and really think about that for a second)

Only 10 of 204 D members of the House and 5 House candidates have signed it.

https://www.thepromisetoamerica.com/about


As I said yesterday, not all dems are socialists and I appreciate and respect the ones who make that clear
Muckieeye
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Your argument would have more heat if you actually knew what a socialist is.
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives...
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative.
-John Stewart Mill
BearlySane88
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Muckieeye said:

Your argument would have more heat if you actually knew what a socialist is.


Have a better day!
dajo9
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tequila4kapp said:

Congressmen Tom Suozzi (NY-03) and Adam Gray (CA-13) - the only two Democrats to flip Trump-won districts in the 2024 cycle - put out The Promise To America Pledge in June. It has 6 principles:

Capitalism > Socialism
"We want safety, not lawlessness"
"responsible, not reckless" regarding government spending and balanced budgets
Patriotism (proud to be an American)
Effective Government
Common Purpose

This is deemed centrist. (folks might want to pause and really think about that for a second)

Only 10 of 204 D members of the House and 5 House candidates have signed it.

https://www.thepromisetoamerica.com/about

I issued a pledge for Republicans to sign that they don't support pedophilia and none of them signed it. Curious.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
tequila4kapp
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That was a serious post. In a thread about the D party and its challenges, the fact that only 10 house members would publicly support such incredibly basic stuff is worthy of discussion. The R's have their own issues with MAGA vs Establishment vs Tea Party but this isn't that thread.
Cal88
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BearlySane88 said:

bearister said:

It's called gaslighting. I tried cases against attorneys that utilized it. They always lost, but the judges and juries did a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what they were witnessing.

*The possibility exits that it is non responsive involuntary non linear thinking.


I'm doing a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what part of my post you think is gaslighting or what this has to do with your court room history. Let me know when your AI has finished analyzing why a majority of Americans dislike socialists.


A majority of Americans dislike socialism because they are satisfied with their healthcare plans and costs, believe that a college education should cost a quarter million dollars and that spending $10 trillion on forever war is "the cost of freedom".
BearlySane88
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Cal88 said:

BearlySane88 said:

bearister said:

It's called gaslighting. I tried cases against attorneys that utilized it. They always lost, but the judges and juries did a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what they were witnessing.

*The possibility exits that it is non responsive involuntary non linear thinking.


I'm doing a lot of head scratching trying to figure out what part of my post you think is gaslighting or what this has to do with your court room history. Let me know when your AI has finished analyzing why a majority of Americans dislike socialists.


A majority of Americans dislike socialism because they are satisfied with their healthcare plans and costs, believe that a college education should cost a quarter million dollars and that spending $10 trillion on forever war is "the cost of freedom".


Put that on a shirt and sell it!
dajo9
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tequila4kapp said:

That was a serious post. In a thread about the D party and its challenges. The fact that only 10 house members would publicly support such incredibly basic stuff is worthy of discussion. The R's have their own issues with MAGA vs Establishment vs Tea Party but this isn't that thread.

Mine was a serious post too. None of us are defined by what we don't sign.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
tequila4kapp
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dajo9 said:

tequila4kapp said:

That was a serious post. In a thread about the D party and its challenges. The fact that only 10 house members would publicly support such incredibly basic stuff is worthy of discussion. The R's have their own issues with MAGA vs Establishment vs Tea Party but this isn't that thread.

Mine was a serious post too. None of us are defined by what we don't sign.

This is ridiculous.

Pedophilia is illegal, meaning by definition our society is already against it. That makes signing unnecessary.

The Democrat proposal involves policy positions of common debate these days, especially on the left side of the isle. The proposal came from D's. It is the marketplace of ideas and not signing absolutely does have definitional value.
SFCityBear
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dajo9 said:

tequila4kapp said:

Congressmen Tom Suozzi (NY-03) and Adam Gray (CA-13) - the only two Democrats to flip Trump-won districts in the 2024 cycle - put out The Promise To America Pledge in June. It has 6 principles:

Capitalism > Socialism
"We want safety, not lawlessness"
"responsible, not reckless" regarding government spending and balanced budgets
Patriotism (proud to be an American)
Effective Government
Common Purpose

This is deemed centrist. (folks might want to pause and really think about that for a second)

Only 10 of 204 D members of the House and 5 House candidates have signed it.

https://www.thepromisetoamerica.com/about

I issued a pledge for Republicans to sign that they don't support pedophilia and none of them signed it. Curious.

Where and when did you issue such a pledge to Republicans? And to which Republicans? Just curious.
Send it to me. I'll sign it.
SFCityBear
oski003
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For the record, I don't support pedophilia.
BearlySane88
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oski003 said:

For the record, I don't support pedophilia.


Amen, neither do I.
Big C
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I'm glad at least some of the posters here don't support pedophilia. Neither do I. Maybe we should all take this pledge, or else it could be considered a tacit admission of approval.

Also beastiality (which I'm also against).

And armed robbery... and...

Maybe somebody could start working up a more comprehensive list? Please include identity theft (I hate that).
dajo9
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dajo9 said:

tequila4kapp said:

That was a serious post. In a thread about the D party and its challenges. The fact that only 10 house members would publicly support such incredibly basic stuff is worthy of discussion. The R's have their own issues with MAGA vs Establishment vs Tea Party but this isn't that thread.

Mine was a serious post too. None of us are defined by what we don't sign.


And none of us are beholden to other people's marketing stunts
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
MinotStateBeav
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I support arachnophobia.
 
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