hanky1 was right again...COVID was no big deal

35,641 Views | 393 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by okaydo
blungld
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calbear93 said:

blungld said:

AunBear89 said:

"cock-sure-idiots"
I'll give them the first and third words.


This is beneath you.
At this point, nothing is beneath me.

For +3 years I both sounded the alarms and tried to have reasonable, rational, ethical discussions. I, as did many others here, beat my head against tribal loyalty and ever-moved goalposts. There is a not-insignificant number of GOP & BI members who just keep going further with their cult and causing real harm to our society, my friends, and my family all because they are either too stubborn or too ignorant. I now know they are unreachable and will never have their lightbulb moment and make the moral choices. They have had so many chances, but there seems to be no fighting against their Cognitive Dissonance. So, I am done taking the high road with those committed to the lowest.
Krugman Is A Moron
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blungld said:

calbear93 said:

blungld said:

AunBear89 said:

"cock-sure-idiots"
I'll give them the first and third words.


This is beneath you.
At this point, nothing is beneath me.

For +3 years I both sounded the alarms and tried to have reasonable, rational, ethical discussions. I, as did many others here, beat my head against tribal loyalty and ever-moved goalposts. There is a not-insignificant number of GOP & BI members who just keep going further with their cult and causing real harm to our society, my friends, and my family all because they are either too stubborn or too ignorant. I now know they are unreachable and will never have their lightbulb moment and make the moral choices. They have had so many chances, but there seems to be no fighting against their Cognitive Dissonance. So, I am done taking the high road with those committed to the lowest.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You are such a liar. There are very few reasonable, rational, ethical discussions here. Just a bunch of virtue signalling self-important bullshyt.

Your idea of the high road was always BS. This is your real face you're showing now.



Bobodeluxe
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"It's going to disappear. One day, it's like a miracle, it will disappear."
BearNIt
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It is getting harder and harder for people to deny the effects of COVID and the lack of early decisive action taken on behalf of the nation as states try to grapple with COVID. Even the White House is worried as evidenced by the task force memo identifying Red Zone States. Here are those states and 16 out of the 18 were won by Republicans in 2016. Here are the 18 Red Zone States and why the White House and the nation should be worried about them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/18-red-zone-states-the-white-house-is-secretly-worried-about/ss-BB16SsCm?li=BBnb7Kz#image=18


Anarchistbear
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Matthew Patel said:

blungld said:

calbear93 said:

blungld said:

AunBear89 said:

"cock-sure-idiots"
I'll give them the first and third words.


This is beneath you.
At this point, nothing is beneath me.

For +3 years I both sounded the alarms and tried to have reasonable, rational, ethical discussions. I, as did many others here, beat my head against tribal loyalty and ever-moved goalposts. There is a not-insignificant number of GOP & BI members who just keep going further with their cult and causing real harm to our society, my friends, and my family all because they are either too stubborn or too ignorant. I now know they are unreachable and will never have their lightbulb moment and make the moral choices. They have had so many chances, but there seems to be no fighting against their Cognitive Dissonance. So, I am done taking the high road with those committed to the lowest.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You are such a liar. There are very few reasonable, rational, ethical discussions here. Just a bunch of virtue signalling self-important bullshyt.

Your idea of the high road was always BS. This is your real face you're showing now.






" For three years I have extended the hand of tolerance and empathy to these bigoted, gun toting Jesus freaks but they reject the munificence of my liberal values and cling to their cognitive dissonance. For three years I have looked into the puffy hate- ridden faces of NASCAR fans and Covington kids and attempted to teach them liberal values of love for all but they prefer to hunker down with their tribal conspiracy theories, all the while ignoring the real conspiracies I've laid out- Trump, Putin, Assange and Stone rigging the election over kebabs in Bratislava. Now the end is nigh and I will no longer be Paul Revere to this board. I'm coming down from my high horse."
sycasey
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Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.
bearister
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" Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work."

However, the cartels in Colombia have found beheading Covid 19 safety measure scofflaws to be quite effective.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
82gradDLSdad
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bearister said:

" Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work."

However, the cartels in Colombia have found beheading Covid 19 safety measure scofflaws to be quite effective.


Reminds me of a dear, democrat friend who spent time in Dubai due to her husband's job. She commented on how clean it was and how free of homeless and bums and crime it was. She loved it. I had to remind her why that situation existed and it wasn't due to 'nice, humanitarian programs'.
Bobodeluxe
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82gradDLSdad said:

bearister said:

" Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work."

However, the cartels in Colombia have found beheading Covid 19 safety measure scofflaws to be quite effective.


Reminds me of a dear, democrat friend who spent time in Dubai due to her husband's job. She commented on how clean it was and how free of homeless and bums and crime it was. She loved it. I had to remind her why that situation existed and it wasn't due to 'nice, humanitarian programs'.
Simply dumbfounded.
Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.
Bobodeluxe
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sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.
The masks worn by the public do not do much of anything for the wearer. People who refuse to wear a mask have little concern for the other. Period.

Spring brake. Open beaches were not the problem in the southland, it was the typically drunken bacchanalian culture, which led too way too much close conduct even for open spaces. Six feet, without mask wearing, is insufficient in windless outdoor spaces. Backyard parties are a serious cause of virus spread. Spacing. Masks.

Many buildings in the Bay Area have almost no ventilation systems, and those that do would be extremely expensive and time consuming to bring to desired levels of effectiveness.
GBear4Life
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blungld said:

calbear93 said:

blungld said:

AunBear89 said:

"cock-sure-idiots"
I'll give them the first and third words.


This is beneath you.
At this point, nothing is beneath me.

For +3 years I both sounded the alarms and tried to have reasonable, rational, ethical discussions. I, as did many others here, beat my head against tribal loyalty and ever-moved goalposts. There is a not-insignificant number of GOP & BI members who just keep going further with their cult and causing real harm to our society, my friends, and my family all because they are either too stubborn or too ignorant. I now know they are unreachable and will never have their lightbulb moment and make the moral choices. They have had so many chances, but there seems to be no fighting against their Cognitive Dissonance. So, I am done taking the high road with those committed to the lowest.
Pure unsubstantive sanctimony

(as he admits "nothing is beneath [him]")
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.

What? Did you not read my #2 here? Improving ventilation and filtration would also improve conditions for those workers
smh
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Anarchistbear said:

.. ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.
oh-kay i'm convinced AB, we might as well curse god and die, irresistible co-pocolypse at hand.

bloody backstop herd immunity here we come # mama
muting ~250 handles, turnaround is fair play
Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.

What? Did you not read my #2 here? Improving ventilation and filtration would also improve conditions for those workers


These aren't offices, they are huge vertical industrial spaces. Food plants have HEPA filters and exchange systems all over the place- to prevent the food from being contaminated by airborne pathogens, so the air in contact with the food is clean but never sterile- to protect the food . That' s of little use here; it's not going to keep you from being infected by your fellow worker next to you on the line or in break rooms who is expectorating aerosols.
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.

What? Did you not read my #2 here? Improving ventilation and filtration would also improve conditions for those workers


These aren't offices, they are huge vertical industrial spaces. Food plants have HEPA filters and exchange systems all over the place- to prevent the food from being contaminated by airborne pathogens, so the air in contact with the food is clean but never sterile- to protect the food . That' s of little use here; it's not going to keep you from being infected by your fellow worker next to you on the line or in break rooms who is expectorating aerosols.

I see. In that case, yes, better precautions are needed in those areas as well.
sycasey
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Bobodeluxe said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.
The masks worn by the public do not do much of anything for the wearer. People who refuse to wear a mask have little concern for the other. Period.

Spring brake. Open beaches were not the problem in the southland, it was the typically drunken bacchanalian culture, which led too way too much close conduct even for open spaces. Six feet, without mask wearing, is insufficient in windless outdoor spaces. Backyard parties are a serious cause of virus spread. Spacing. Masks.

Many buildings in the Bay Area have almost no ventilation systems, and those that do would be extremely expensive and time consuming to bring to desired levels of effectiveness.

There was more nuance from the interview. She did say that masks should still be used outdoors if you're in one place having a long conversation with someone and not spaced 6 ft out. So yes, still need caution with stuff like backyard parties. She was saying that it would be best to speak about this stuff honestly, not just trying to scare or shame people into wearing masks.

No doubt that improving ventilation would be expensive. I suspect it would be worth the investment, though again I am no expert in the matter. The argument was that it's something that needs to be investigated more.
BearForce2
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blungld said:

calbear93 said:

blungld said:

AunBear89 said:

"cock-sure-idiots"
I'll give them the first and third words.


This is beneath you.
At this point, nothing is beneath me.

For +3 years I both sounded the alarms and tried to have reasonable, rational, ethical discussions. I, as did many others here, beat my head against tribal loyalty and ever-moved goalposts. There is a not-insignificant number of GOP & BI members who just keep going further with their cult and causing real harm to our society, my friends, and my family all because they are either too stubborn or too ignorant. I now know they are unreachable and will never have their lightbulb moment and make the moral choices. They have had so many chances, but there seems to be no fighting against their Cognitive Dissonance. So, I am done taking the high road with those committed to the lowest.



Reasonable, rational, and ethical discussions!. So it was you all along! And you have now admitted that nothing is beneath you so by all means carry on, no one is trying to stop you.



BearForce2
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GBear4Life said:

blungld said:

calbear93 said:

blungld said:

AunBear89 said:

"cock-sure-idiots"
I'll give them the first and third words.


This is beneath you.
At this point, nothing is beneath me.

For +3 years I both sounded the alarms and tried to have reasonable, rational, ethical discussions. I, as did many others here, beat my head against tribal loyalty and ever-moved goalposts. There is a not-insignificant number of GOP & BI members who just keep going further with their cult and causing real harm to our society, my friends, and my family all because they are either too stubborn or too ignorant. I now know they are unreachable and will never have their lightbulb moment and make the moral choices. They have had so many chances, but there seems to be no fighting against their Cognitive Dissonance. So, I am done taking the high road with those committed to the lowest.
Pure unsubstantive sanctimony

(as he admits "nothing is beneath [him]")
It's unbelievable how full of it some people are and get away with it. If there's mental illness involved, then it's understandable, what can you do?

Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.

What? Did you not read my #2 here? Improving ventilation and filtration would also improve conditions for those workers


These aren't offices, they are huge vertical industrial spaces. Food plants have HEPA filters and exchange systems all over the place- to prevent the food from being contaminated by airborne pathogens, so the air in contact with the food is clean but never sterile- to protect the food . That' s of little use here; it's not going to keep you from being infected by your fellow worker next to you on the line or in break rooms who is expectorating aerosols.

I see. In that case, yes, better precautions are needed in those areas as well.


Trump's granting meat plants essential food status was an unmitigated disaster. Other food plants aren't much better. Masks are not required in US food plants- or,at least, haven't been required for food safety reasons; the workplace is mostly women, working in very close quarters; very hot or very cold;,lots of yelling because of noise; poorly paid and a lot of workers are contract from a hiring agency to avoid hiring undocumented, which a lot of them are.)
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.

What? Did you not read my #2 here? Improving ventilation and filtration would also improve conditions for those workers


These aren't offices, they are huge vertical industrial spaces. Food plants have HEPA filters and exchange systems all over the place- to prevent the food from being contaminated by airborne pathogens, so the air in contact with the food is clean but never sterile- to protect the food . That' s of little use here; it's not going to keep you from being infected by your fellow worker next to you on the line or in break rooms who is expectorating aerosols.

I see. In that case, yes, better precautions are needed in those areas as well.


Trump's granting meat plants essential food status was an unmitigated disaster. Other food plants aren't much better. Masks are not required in US food plants- or,at least, haven't been required for food safety reasons; the workplace is mostly women, working in very close quarters; very hot or very cold;,lots of yelling because of noise; poorly paid and a lot of workers are contract from a hiring agency to avoid hiring undocumented, which a lot of them are.)
Masks not being required in an indoor workplace seems insane to me.
BearForce2
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anyway, I recently listened to a podcast with Zeynep Tufecki, who I thought had some good ideas about how we should be handling this disease, based on the data:



1. Beaches and parks should be left open. Some Democratic governors and/or mayors are wrong on this. The data shows that COVID spread rarely happens outdoors, but the media coverage overplays things with pictures of crowded-looking beaches. In reality, almost all COVID transmission is happening in indoor spaces. People are going to want to socialize, so we should encourage the safest way to do it, in open-air spaces.

2. We need to focus a lot more on improving ventilation and air filtering for indoor spaces, as that's the only real way to start making workplaces and schools safe again. Most buildings don't have the kind of filters necessary to screen out COVID and viruses like it. Perhaps the government could help subsidize the improvements.

3. Shaming people about not wearing masks generally doesn't work. Best to acknowledge the early mistakes in communication (like originally telling people not to wear masks) and move ahead with what we know now, that mask-wearing really does help protect everyone. We should also be clear that masks are really most necessary when you're with other people in an indoor space. Outside is not a big deal. Positive reinforcement works best.

Makes sense to me.


These sound like the concerns of the privileged working at home who wonder when they can go out or back to work. But it ignores more pressing concerns. 55% of California Covid cases are Latinos. They are "essential" workers exposed in potentially super spreader environments- food processing plants, warehouses, etc. They use public transport and bring the disease home to crowded households. They do not have ready access to health care systems and fear testing both for loss of income and potential deportation if undocumented( not true but still a concern). The failures here are not monitoring workplace safety and lack of access to community health- information, testing, etc.

What? Did you not read my #2 here? Improving ventilation and filtration would also improve conditions for those workers


These aren't offices, they are huge vertical industrial spaces. Food plants have HEPA filters and exchange systems all over the place- to prevent the food from being contaminated by airborne pathogens, so the air in contact with the food is clean but never sterile- to protect the food . That' s of little use here; it's not going to keep you from being infected by your fellow worker next to you on the line or in break rooms who is expectorating aerosols.

I see. In that case, yes, better precautions are needed in those areas as well.


Trump's granting meat plants essential food status was an unmitigated disaster. Other food plants aren't much better. Masks are not required in US food plants- or,at least, haven't been required for food safety reasons; the workplace is mostly women, working in very close quarters; very hot or very cold;,lots of yelling because of noise; poorly paid and a lot of workers are contract from a hiring agency to avoid hiring undocumented, which a lot of them are.)
Masks not being required in an indoor workplace seems insane to me.
Tell me about it, people are so insane. Whether your in the office or rioting and looting, you should always be wearing one.
Anarchistbear
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Masks are pretty universal now by management decree; they don't want to kill off their workforce but the question of who protects the worker is unanswered- typically it is a union or government. Unions have been totally marginalized and with government the pertinent regulatory body is not always apparent- FDA regulates food safety but not worker safety which is OSHA who now writes Covid guidelines but I don't think they have the personnel or expertise to audit this stuff- their focus has always been falling off the ladder not deadly microbes.
GBear4Life
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Anarchistbear said:

Masks are pretty universal now by management decree; they don't want to kill off their workforce but the question of who protects the worker is unanswered- typically it is a union or government. Unions have been totally marginalized and with government the pertinent regulatory body is not always apparent- FDA regulates food safety but not worker safety which is OSHA who now writes Covid guidelines but I don't think they have the personnel or expertise to audit this stuff- their focus has always been falling off the ladder not deadly microbes.
I don't know of a business that isn't requiring masks at this point. Even restaurants are requiring you to have a mask on as you walk to and from your table (as far as I know).
smh
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GBear4Life said:

Anarchistbear said:

Masks are pretty universal now by management decree; they don't want to kill off their workforce but the question of who protects the worker is unanswered- typically it is a union or government. Unions have been totally marginalized and with government the pertinent regulatory body is not always apparent- FDA regulates food safety but not worker safety which is OSHA who now writes Covid guidelines but I don't think they have the personnel or expertise to audit this stuff- their focus has always been falling off the ladder not deadly microbes.
I don't know of a business that isn't requiring masks at this point. Even restaurants are requiring you to have a mask on as you walk to and from your table (as far as I know).
In California, sure, but don't have a clue about 45's hardcore deep red states
# wouldn't it be nice
muting ~250 handles, turnaround is fair play
blungld
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BearForce2 said:

Reasonable, rational, and ethical discussions!. So it was you all along! And you have now admitted that nothing is beneath you so by all means carry on, no one is trying to stop you.
You don't want to see me when I'm crazy. I'm loco.
blungld
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GBear4Life said:

Pure unsubstantive sanctimony

(as he admits "nothing is beneath [him]")
You've been trying for years, and rats, you finally caught me.

But why, here in this trap you laid, do I feel more free than ever? A liberated troll free to spout pure unsubstantive sanctimony forever!
bearister
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Great, we have been invaded by bots again.
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BearNIt
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California passes New York for the most COVID cases. This a #1 we could do without and it will take 3-5 weeks to see its full effect. Imagine that Orange County is exploding. California had 12000 positive cases in the last 24 hours. Over 143,000 deaths in the U.S. with 1000 deaths in the last 24 hours. California now has 413,576 confirmed cases of COVID-19. That tops the 408,886 seen in New York State as of Wednesday..
Krugman Is A Moron
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BearNIt said:

California passes New York for the most COVID cases. This a #1 we could do without and it will take 3-5 weeks to see its full effect. Imagine that Orange County is exploding. California had 12000 positive cases in the last 24 hours. Over 143,000 deaths in the U.S. with 1000 deaths in the last 24 hours. California now has 413,576 confirmed cases of COVID-19. That tops the 408,886 seen in New York State as of Wednesday.
With a population double that of New York and a bunch of moronic Southern Californians refusing to wear masks, I'm not surprised. As the virus is extremely contagious (thought not extremely lethal), the more people out in the wild, the more infected. It's just part of the natural cycle of a virus.

However, in the far more relevant measures:

Death/100K

California: 19.6
New York: 78.9

Maybe we should make a victory poster like Cuomo.
bearister
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A public health employee predicted Florida's coronavirus catastrophe then she was fired: 'This is everything I was trying to warn people about'


https://news.yahoo.com/a-public-health-employee-predicted-floridas-coronavirus-catastrophe-then-she-was-fired-this-is-everything-i-was-trying-to-warn-184810565.html


I hope some prosecutor can fashion a charge against DeSantis. He crossed the line into intentional misconduct for political reasons and people unnecessarily died. Probably thousands.
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BearNIt
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bearister said:

A public health employee predicted Florida's coronavirus catastrophe then she was fired: 'This is everything I was trying to warn people about'


https://news.yahoo.com/a-public-health-employee-predicted-floridas-coronavirus-catastrophe-then-she-was-fired-this-is-everything-i-was-trying-to-warn-184810565.html


I hope some prosecutor can fashion a charge against DeSantis. He crossed the line into intentional misconduct for political reasons and people unnecessarily died. Probably thousands.
Wonder what will happen when the Republican National Convention in Jacksonville, FL takes place? Voter suppression and not the kind that Republicans favor will be the result of that little incursion.
bearister
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" Wonder what will happen when the Republican National Convention in Jacksonville, FL takes place? Voter suppression and not the kind that Republicans favor will be the result of that little incursion."

Well, if enough of the b@stards die, there may be a Medal of Freedom in it for somebody.
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Bobodeluxe
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"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. Stock market starting to look very good to me"

dj "Dog" tRump
bearister
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Coronavirus cases slowed down in California, Arizona, Texas and Florida - Axios


https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-infections-spread-florida-california-texas-94aacba0-7351-42ec-b1f1-74d6dd3ef5c6.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
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