The latest on Conference Realignment and Cal - Saturday the 19th

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cubzwin
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In reply to BearlyCareAnymore • 12:10p, 8/31/23
You say some universities in some regions have "overblown" the importance of "this activity" (i.e. college football and baseball). Your argument is illogical.

You correctly point out that motivations for big time players are financial, but then wax moralistic. Football is not "overblown" at Ohio State or Alabama or Georgia. Basketball is not overblown at Kansas or Duke or Arizona. These activities bring in huge profits so their high expenditures have a high ROI.

The importance of football and Bball for perennial top ten programs is not overblown. For the other 100 or so NCAA programs (a group that includes Cal, Oregon State, WSU) it does amount to high priced tilting at windmills.

Within the next decade, the top 20% programs may form a "league of their own" and they will morph into openly professional college athletic programs. They will get 100% of the TV money and sponsorship dollars. The bottom 80% will by default become amateur programs. Football at schools like Cal and Ball State and WSU will be more like field hockey or crew or college wrestling--endeavors engaged in by university students for pleasure, not for gold or glory.
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BearSD
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12:20p, 8/31/23

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JimSox
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In reply to BearSD • 12:28p, 8/31/23
BearSD said:



Oh. So not tonight. And will it actually happen tomorrow?
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cubzwin
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In reply to BearSD • 12:30p, 8/31/23
ACC meeting tomorrow.
Time to apply red lip stick, show some cleavage and laugh at their jokes.
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Econ141
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In reply to JimSox • 12:35p, 8/31/23
JimSox said:
BearSD said:



Oh. So not tonight. And will it actually happen tomorrow?


Only if the wind blows in a north-easterly manner
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BearlyCareAnymore
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In reply to cubzwin • 12:48p, 8/31/23
cubzwin said:
You say some universities in some regions have "overblown" the importance of "this activity" (i.e. college football and baseball). Your argument is illogical.

You correctly point out that motivations for big time players are financial, but then wax moralistic. Football is not "overblown" at Ohio State or Alabama or Georgia. Basketball is not overblown at Kansas or Duke or Arizona. These activities bring in huge profits so their high expenditures have a high ROI.

The importance of football and Bball for perennial top ten programs is not overblown. For the other 100 or so NCAA programs (a group that includes Cal, Oregon State, WSU) it does amount to high priced tilting at windmills.

Within the next decade, the top 20% programs may form a "league of their own" and they will morph into openly professional college athletic programs. They will get 100% of the TV money and sponsorship dollars. The bottom 80% will by default become amateur programs. Football at schools like Cal and Ball State and WSU will be more like field hockey or crew or college wrestling--endeavors engaged in by university students for pleasure, not for gold or glory.


I don't really disagree with anything that you say. When I say these programs have overblown them, I don't necessarily mean the universities decision making, but the whole community around them. Obviously those schools are making money. However, I question the ROI in spending their peers into oblivion. 1. I think it is possible that they could be spending less today and make a higher profit because I'm not convinced the last dollar spent is producing more than a dollar. But that is a hard question to answer. 2. I think if the A League of ther Own concept comes to pass, and I agree entirely with you in that, the amount of money available to them for a sport with a much more limited relevance is going to drop precipitously. Why will anyone outside those communities care? It is already happening that younger generations' interest outside those areas is plummeting. In those regions it is largely surviving on the backs of older people with money still tilting at those windmills. That is why I called it a nostalgia play.

Honestly, at a lot of these places, a meager investment in esports is probably a smarter play.

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berserkeley
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In reply to BearSD • 1:01p, 8/31/23
If there's a meeting tomorrow and there's no vote, is that the point we have to admit it's not going to happen?
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nikeykid
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1:04p, 8/31/23


tomorrow is the day!! no way it changes again!!
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BearSD
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In reply to berserkeley • 1:20p, 8/31/23
berserkeley said:
If there's a meeting tomorrow and there's no vote, is that the point we have to admit it's not going to happen?
I assume the outcome of the meeting will be communicated to Cal, Stanford, and SMU. I see four possible outcomes:

(1) Vote to offer admission to the ACC
(2) Vote taken, offers not made because not enough votes were in favor (this seems least likely)
(3) No vote taken, but schools are told the ACC is still working through this and may vote next week
(4) No vote taken, and the schools are told the votes aren't there, and the matter is dropped until at least next summer
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Strykur
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1:23p, 8/31/23
They could punt the vote and sit on it until Tuesday or later, eh.
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cubzwin
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In reply to BearlyCareAnymore • 1:25p, 8/31/23
"money available to them for a sport with a much more limited relevance is going to drop precipitously. Why will anyone outside those communities care?"
It's a good question.

A lot of people love college football and don't care that much about the pros. I'm in that group. I will watch an NFL game if my team (the Bears) is playing but I don't watch other games unless there is a magnetic personality whom I follow (like Mahomes). No way do I tune in to the great majority of mediocre NFL contests.
On the other hand, I am always drawn to Alabama v. LSU or Michigan v Ohio State or USC v Notre Dame or the many traditional rivalries that don't include big name schools (like Army v Navy). even though I don't have long standing regional interest.

But, I'm in the old guy demographic and you may be right that people in their 20's now who do not attend universities with top tier football may never acquire a lifelong connection to college football.
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cubzwin
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In reply to BearSD • 1:31p, 8/31/23
There are two parts to the process.
1) yes vote to accept all 3
2) hammer out the revenue split

number 1 is a simple up/down vote and is relatively simple
number 2 will bring out the claws. It took a great king to solve a dispute by proposing to split a baby. Splitting 3 babies, 12 ways is a far more complex proposition.
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gobears15
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In reply to cubzwin • 1:40p, 8/31/23
cubzwin said:
There are two parts to the process.
1) yes vote to accept all 3
2) hammer out the revenue split

number 1 is a simple up/down vote and is relatively simple
number 2 will bring out the claws. It took a great king to solve a dispute by proposing to split a baby. Splitting 3 babies, 12 ways is a far more complex proposition.
The 12-way (or 15-way?) prisoner's dilemma, ACC edition.
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berserkeley
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In reply to cubzwin • 1:43p, 8/31/23
cubzwin said:
There are two parts to the process.
1) yes vote to accept all 3
2) hammer out the revenue split

number 1 is a simple up/down vote and is relatively simple
number 2 will bring out the claws. It took a great king to solve a dispute by proposing to split a baby. Splitting 3 babies, 12 ways is a far more complex proposition.


I don't think #1 passes until after #2 passes with at least 12 votes.
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OnTheFarm
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In reply to gobears15 • 1:48p, 8/31/23
gobears15 said:
cubzwin said:
There are two parts to the process.
1) yes vote to accept all 3
2) hammer out the revenue split

number 1 is a simple up/down vote and is relatively simple
number 2 will bring out the claws. It took a great king to solve a dispute by proposing to split a baby. Splitting 3 babies, 12 ways is a far more complex proposition.
The 12-way (or 15-way?) prisoner's dilemma, ACC edition.
Let's be optimistic and call it a stag hunt!
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dimitrig
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In reply to nikeykid • 2:45p, 8/31/23
nikeykid said:


tomorrow is the day!! no way it changes again!!




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Bowlesman80
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In reply to GMP • 3:16p, 8/31/23
"Stanford and and rightlyCal played in the Big Game, a contest matching up some of the greatest, and nerdiest, players in football history."

Two thoughts:
1. LMFAO
2. Writer mentions first, UCLA/USC rivalry before ours even though, if I understand rightly, the very term "Big Game" originated with the Cal/Furd rivalry. Talk about prioritizing NFL Jr.
"Just win, baby."
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juarezbear
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In reply to cubzwin • 3:22p, 8/31/23
cubzwin said:
ACC meeting tomorrow.
Time to apply red lip stick, show some cleavage and laugh at their jokes.
That is awesome! Thanks for the belly laugh! I needed it.
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Bowlesman80
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In reply to berserkeley • 3:26p, 8/31/23
berserkeley said:
If there's a meeting tomorrow and there's no vote, is that the point we have to admit it's not going to happen?
I would think there's a point where we give up being strung along.
"Just win, baby."
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HateRed
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3:35p, 8/31/23
I would like to know where all the "insiders" are now. Just a few days ago these insiders were telling us that there were not enough yes votes to put us in the ACC.
Why can't these same insiders tell tell whether the votes are there or not?????
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6956bear
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In reply to HateRed • 3:44p, 8/31/23
HateRed said:
I would like to know where all the "insiders" are now. Just a few days ago these insiders were telling us that there were not enough yes votes to put us in the ACC.
Why can't these same insiders tell tell whether the votes are there or not?????
I think many of the "insiders" contacts are in the athletic departments. But the ADs do not have a formal vote. They do have influence but the Presidents vote. The AD at UNC may not have the same enthusiasm for Calford that the President may.

I just do not think they take a vote if the votes are not there. The meeting can always be cancelled or postponed. For now it appears the ACC Commissioner feels the votes are there. Things can change overnight or even early in the morning.
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Econ141
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3:46p, 8/31/23
If you are B1G - wouldn't you swoop in now? If you take Cal and Stanford, it might tip the ACC towards getting 8 to say break up. So potentially, you add Cal/Stanford on the cheap to get access to FSU/Clemson/UNC.

I know this has been discussed heavily already - but still don't see why Cal and Stanford are so repulsive to B1G.
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TomBear
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3:49p, 8/31/23
dmitrig:

The Peanuts cartoon is SO perfect. And I really needed a laugh. Thank you!!!
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sycasey
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In reply to Econ141 • 3:51p, 8/31/23
Econ141 said:
If you are B1G - wouldn't you swoop in now? If you take Cal and Stanford, it might tip the ACC towards getting 8 to say break up. So potentially, you add Cal/Stanford on the cheap to get access to FSU/Clemson/UNC.

I know this has been discussed heavily already - but still don't see why Cal and Stanford are so repulsive to B1G.

For some reason Fox doesn't want us. It's less about the B1G schools and their preferences and more about their media partner.

ESPN has a contract with the ACC stating they have to pay a certain amount for any new members, though I also don't think they are objecting to this potential move. They probably like having more late games to show.
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BearlyCareAnymore
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In reply to 6956bear • 3:59p, 8/31/23
6956bear said:
HateRed said:
I would like to know where all the "insiders" are now. Just a few days ago these insiders were telling us that there were not enough yes votes to put us in the ACC.
Why can't these same insiders tell tell whether the votes are there or not?????
I think many of the "insiders" contacts are in the athletic departments. But the ADs do not have a formal vote. They do have influence but the Presidents vote. The AD at UNC may not have the same enthusiasm for Calford that the President may.

I just do not think they take a vote if the votes are not there. The meeting can always be cancelled or postponed. For now it appears the ACC Commissioner feels the votes are there. Things can change overnight or even early in the morning.


From all the reporting, I believe we have the votes, but they could just take a vote because it is time to conclude finally one way or the other. I don't see taking a vote as meaning the vote is yes.
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stech81
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4:13p, 8/31/23
Georgia Tech guy here again, hope if they vote tomorrow Y'all are voted in the ACC. If any school knows how you feel it's Tech.

We pull out of the SEC in 1964 (not a smart move) Long story short it was cause of the SEC's 140 rule which limited the number of scholarships in football a team could sign up to 45 per year. Coach Dodd was one who would not run a player off to stay at 140 he just didn't sign as many as the rest of the SEC.

After that we went independent thinking we would be the Notre Dame of the south. That didn't work out very well.

After winning one game in 1980 and one game in 1981 there was talk about dropping down to a lower division ,

in 1983 we joined the ACC. Which has turn out pretty good for us.

I have no idea how the vote will turn out, but I can tell you will vote for all 3 teams to join the ACC.

We have our first game tomorrow so unless they announce it at the game I won't know.

Good luck this year And here is hoping Y'all are voted in tomorrow or very soon.
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calumnus
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In reply to sycasey • 4:29p, 8/31/23
sycasey said:
Econ141 said:
If you are B1G - wouldn't you swoop in now? If you take Cal and Stanford, it might tip the ACC towards getting 8 to say break up. So potentially, you add Cal/Stanford on the cheap to get access to FSU/Clemson/UNC.

I know this has been discussed heavily already - but still don't see why Cal and Stanford are so repulsive to B1G.

For some reason Fox doesn't want us. It's less about the B1G schools and their preferences and more about their media partner.

ESPN has a contract with the ACC stating they have to pay a certain amount for any new members, though I also don't think they are objecting to this potential move. They probably like having more late games to show.


My sense is Carol Christ really pissed off UCLA alum Silverman (COO of Fox Sports and builder of the B1G Network) when she and Kliavkoff tried to get the Governor of California and the UC Regents to block UCLA from going to the B1G. Now that she is hat in hand begging for Cal to get the same deal she said is horrible for student-welfare and should be blocked, my guess is he is telling her to get lost.

On the other hand, ESPN is pushing for Calford to the B1G and reportedly has even offered to cover travel expenses to make it happen. I think it solves a lot of problems for ESPN: gives them some evening content that East Coast fans will watch, keeps Notre Dame tied to the ACC, mollifies the ACC malcontents, stops us from continuing to work with Apple, and may avoid lawsuits (something Fox Corp historically doesn't seem to care about).
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sycasey
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In reply to calumnus • 4:34p, 8/31/23
calumnus said:
sycasey said:
Econ141 said:
If you are B1G - wouldn't you swoop in now? If you take Cal and Stanford, it might tip the ACC towards getting 8 to say break up. So potentially, you add Cal/Stanford on the cheap to get access to FSU/Clemson/UNC.

I know this has been discussed heavily already - but still don't see why Cal and Stanford are so repulsive to B1G.

For some reason Fox doesn't want us. It's less about the B1G schools and their preferences and more about their media partner.

ESPN has a contract with the ACC stating they have to pay a certain amount for any new members, though I also don't think they are objecting to this potential move. They probably like having more late games to show.


ESPN is pushing for it and reportedly has even offered to cover travel expenses to make it happen.

I think it's more that they can repurpose the additional ESPN money to cover the expenses. But I do think ESPN is generally in favor of the expansion.
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Strykur
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In reply to sycasey • 4:40p, 8/31/23
sycasey said:
calumnus said:
sycasey said:
Econ141 said:
If you are B1G - wouldn't you swoop in now? If you take Cal and Stanford, it might tip the ACC towards getting 8 to say break up. So potentially, you add Cal/Stanford on the cheap to get access to FSU/Clemson/UNC.

I know this has been discussed heavily already - but still don't see why Cal and Stanford are so repulsive to B1G.
For some reason Fox doesn't want us. It's less about the B1G schools and their preferences and more about their media partner.

ESPN has a contract with the ACC stating they have to pay a certain amount for any new members, though I also don't think they are objecting to this potential move. They probably like having more late games to show.
ESPN is pushing for it and reportedly has even offered to cover travel expenses to make it happen.
I think it's more that they can repurpose the additional ESPN money to cover the expenses. But I do think ESPN is generally in favor of the expansion.
They want to keep the late-night West Coast slots.
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ninetyfourbear
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In reply to stech81 • 4:50p, 8/31/23
stech81 said:
Georgia Tech guy here again, hope if they vote tomorrow Y'all are voted in the ACC. If any school knows how you feel it's Tech.


Personally hoping for a Georgia Tech and Cal rivalry if we join the ACC.
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stech81
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In reply to ninetyfourbear • 5:05p, 8/31/23
ninetyfourbear said:
stech81 said:
Georgia Tech guy here again, hope if they vote tomorrow Y'all are voted in the ACC. If any school knows how you feel it's Tech.


Personally hoping for a Georgia Tech and Cal rivalry if we join the ACC.
You have to let us wear white jerseys at our home game
Louisville has pissed us off tomorrow and they want to wear white.
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Bowlesman80
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In reply to stech81 • 5:05p, 8/31/23
stech81 said:
Georgia Tech guy here again, hope if they vote tomorrow Y'all are voted in the ACC. If any school knows how you feel it's Tech.

We pull out of the SEC in 1964 (not a smart move) Long story short it was cause of the SEC's 140 rule which limited the number of scholarships in football a team could sign up to 45 per year. Coach Dodd was one who would not run a player off to stay at 140 he just didn't sign as many as the rest of the SEC.

After that we went independent thinking we would be the Notre Dame of the south. That didn't work out very well.

After winning one game in 1980 and one game in 1981 there was talk about dropping down to a lower division ,

in 1983 we joined the ACC. Which has turn out pretty good for us.

I have no idea how the vote will turn out, but I can tell you will vote for all 3 teams to join the ACC.

We have our first game tomorrow so unless they announce it at the game I won't know.

Good luck this year And here is hoping Y'all are voted in tomorrow or very soon.
Good luck to Tech! We're both undefeated right, now.
"Just win, baby."
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Bowlesman80
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In reply to stech81 • 5:16p, 8/31/23
stech81 said:
ninetyfourbear said:
stech81 said:
Georgia Tech guy here again, hope if they vote tomorrow Y'all are voted in the ACC. If any school knows how you feel it's Tech.


Personally hoping for a Georgia Tech and Cal rivalry if we join the ACC.
You have to let us wear white jerseys at our home game
Louisville has pissed us off tomorrow and they want to wear white.
That's our former QB, you know. Pocket passer with limited awareness. Good guy, but I think we traded up.
"Just win, baby."
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OskiDeLaHoya
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In reply to stech81 • 5:17p, 8/31/23
stech81 said:
ninetyfourbear said:
stech81 said:
Georgia Tech guy here again, hope if they vote tomorrow Y'all are voted in the ACC. If any school knows how you feel it's Tech.


Personally hoping for a Georgia Tech and Cal rivalry if we join the ACC.
You have to let us wear white jerseys at our home game
Louisville has pissed us off tomorrow and they want to wear white.


Fair warning: you will replace UCLA as the "song stealers" on our schedule. Ironically, it's the reason I root for Tech whenever they're on TV because I keep hearing your band playing Stanfurd Jonah in the background.
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bearsandgiants
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5:19p, 8/31/23
Forgot about this but finding the scores, if we get in, will be so much easier. ACC is first on the drop-down list.
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