calbear93 said:

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going4roses said:

---

And you point is?

At the end of the day your stance benefits who?

---

I don't even know how to respond to this when it comes from you. You are the master of posting divisive videos with gibberish non-sense that seems to be an autobot version of a racist, progressive poster.

My point is that I don't want to hear from so called progressives like you about racism when, in my view, extremes on both sides, including you, are the guilty ones. Posting on a message board about what your progressive views are when you don't live your views do not make you a good person and definitely not the type of person who will have any influence whatsoever on anyone who is not already entrenched in your same viewpoint.

---

I agree, her reaction to a person of color comes from some preconceived idea about who this person was and what she could do to get him in the most trouble possible. She clearly exaggerated the situation and given the most recent interactions that people of color have had with law enforcement could have gotten him killed. It is only because the interaction was recorded that there is proof that she overreacted. She is going to have to own this. The lesson is that every interaction has the chance of being recorded and released to the public as everyone has the ability to record you and post the recording. A few years ago I was helping some friends out and took care of their kids at a time when two of their girls were going to prom. Before the group left I pulled the girls aside and said don't embarrass yourself, your parents, or me, everybody has a cell phone and if you act like an idiot it will be posted by the time you get home from the prom and it will be the talk of the community. When they got home I asked them how it went as they were having a few friends over and they related that there were a few individuals who showed up drunk to the prom and made a scene and were arrested by the police. Those interactions were recorded by a number of students and posted within a couple of hours. To this day the girls have never forgotten the advice and have passed it on to their younger siblings. Perhaps this woman should have remembered this.

GBear4Life said:

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bearister said:

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The Alt Right (aka White Nationalist Movement) has adopted tRump as their own. There is a reason for that....and tRump has emboldened them.

tRump has also emboldened people in less serious (but still serious) ways. It is the law in my county to wear a mask when you enter areas where social distancing cannot be kept (primarily buildings open to public). I was in the post office this morning and saw an a$$o from my church (who doesn't know me) go into the PO without a mask on. During the last election I noticed he had a Lock Her Up bumper sticker on his car. So you see, tRump has made it a political statement to not wear a mask.

---

Is there a thread you won't drag Trump into?

---

You dragged Hitler into this one.

calbear93 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

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going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

How about the fact that she donated to Obama and John Kerry's election only? Sound like a Republican to you?

Not too difficult to look up political donation history.

---

You think BearForce2 did that before he posted? I highly doubt it.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

I was right, she made campaign contributions to Obama and Buttigieg. Democrats feel entitled to the Presidency, entitled to letting their dogs run around without a leash.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html

AunBear89 said:

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Now you're just making shyte up. Anything to promote your "I'm not racist, YOU'RE racist" agenda.

---

Please cite what I or anybody else is "making up." I cited what YOU, other BI posters and the MSM are making up. I'm not promoting that "you're a racist" I'm observing that it is so and highlighting them for everyone to see

Quote:

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Listen: I understand that you desperately want Ahmaud to be a thug, a gangster, a career criminal with malice constantly on his mind

---

I don't "want" anything. I cited the facts that show -- undeniably -- that Ahmaud is a "thug" and "criminal". You WANT facts to support your narrative. That's the difference. You're invested in the outcome, I am not. If Ahmaud were a choir boy leading up to that day, it would change the facts of the case at all. His past is only relevant in two ways: supporting evidence for the Race hustlers who are still in denial that the behavior in the video that day was NOT a reflection of Ahmaud's behavioral tendencie; 2) change the level of empathy the public have for him.

Quote:

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- so you can calmly justify his murder as just good Cristian white folks protecting their own.

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This doesn't even make sense.

Quote:

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You were delighted when video showed him Visiting the construction.

---

Obection: assumption not founded in evidence. Ahmaud could have been a choir boy. I literally don't care. It's notable given the Race Hustlers rush to conclusions while IGNORING the facts.

Quote:

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But where were you when it was revealed the video showed others visiting - and they were white? Should they also be gunned down by backwoods mouth breathing good old boys?

---

Is this your defense (deflection) of Ahmaud? You are parroting CNN and their strawmen. Not ONE person is claiming Ahmaud or ANYBODY "should be gunned down for trespassing a construction site". You know this but you spew it anyways because FACTS and LOGIC don't support your narrative.

Anybody who walks into a construction site is trespassing. Furthermore, should somebody confront a trespasser and ask them "what are you doing?", if they ran away, it'd be a dead give away they were up to no good.

Quote:

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Where were you when it was also revealed that nothing has been stolen from the job site? Oh - that's right: those details (aka "Facts") don't fit your agenda, so you ignore them.

---

It's completely irrelevant that he stole something -- query: would it have been relevant to you if he had? lol of course not -- or that he didn't, or that he threw it out or that he simply didn't see anything he could jack.

Quote:

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You may not be racist, but you love defending racists and their behavior while accusing anyone upset by the behavior as being racist themselves.

---

There is zero evidence the McMichael's are racism or that racism was a motivating factor (if there was, what would that change about the case given all the facts remaining the same?). You have zero problem making assertions without evidence. The only racism in this thread has been from the likes of Bearister, G4R, Okaydo, and yourself.

You are appalled that somebody could actually say that to you because your bubble is so thick, so deluded, that you think your brand of racism is noble and righteous while the phantom racism you project onto others is evil.

You can't fathom that there are large swaths of people who can still actually assess these conflicts dispassionately and without projecting race and narratives into our understanding of the facts.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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calbear93 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

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going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

How about the fact that she donated to Obama and John Kerry's election only? Sound like a Republican to you?

Not too difficult to look up political donation history.

---

You think BearForce2 did that before he posted? I highly doubt it.

---

She's fired. You can guys can hire her now, she's a "independent thinker".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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bearister said:

---

The Alt Right (aka White Nationalist Movement) has adopted tRump as their own. There is a reason for that....and tRump has emboldened them.

tRump has also emboldened people in less serious (but still serious) ways. It is the law in my county to wear a mask when you enter areas where social distancing cannot be kept (primarily buildings open to public). I was in the post office this morning and saw an a$$o from my church (who doesn't know me) go into the PO without a mask on. During the last election I noticed he had a Lock Her Up bumper sticker on his car. So you see, tRump has made it a political statement to not wear a mask.

---

Is there a thread you won't drag Trump into?

---

You dragged Hitler into this one.

---

Hitler was used in an analogy to illuminate a broader point: that the public gauges their level of sorrow for a victim of a tragedy in part by their reputation -- i.e. their character and track record.

Bearister brings up Trump in virtually every thread, whether relevant or not, to deflect and basically unburden himself of his TDS.

So, again, you're making a dishonest comparison aimed at deflection because you KNOW his incessant injection of Trump is absurd

BearForce2 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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calbear93 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

How about the fact that she donated to Obama and John Kerry's election only? Sound like a Republican to you?

Not too difficult to look up political donation history.

---

You think BearForce2 did that before he posted? I highly doubt it.

---

She's fired. You can guys can hire her now, she's a "independent thinker".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html

---

What I saw in that video is a middle aged woman who is aggro and cray cray.

But I am not shocked it was spun as "RACIST WOMAN".

Ruining lives by projecting and attributing motive to ill-behaved people's actions is the "price of progress". It's payback, and such is merely collateral damage.

GBear4Life said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

How about the fact that she donated to Obama and John Kerry's election only? Sound like a Republican to you?

Not too difficult to look up political donation history.

---

You think BearForce2 did that before he posted? I highly doubt it.

---

She's fired. You can guys can hire her now, she's a "independent thinker".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html

---

What I saw in that video is a middle aged woman who is aggro and cray cray.

But I am not shocked it was spun as "RACIST WOMAN".

Ruining lives by projecting and attributing motive to ill-behaved people's actions is the "price of progress". It's payback, and such is merely collateral damage.

---

Difficult to determine if motive was racist but you're right, it will be spun that way. If it was the other way around and a black woman called the police on a "white" man, not sure if she would get the same treatment.

BearForce2 said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

How about the fact that she donated to Obama and John Kerry's election only? Sound like a Republican to you?

Not too difficult to look up political donation history.

---

You think BearForce2 did that before he posted? I highly doubt it.

---

She's fired. You can guys can hire her now, she's a "independent thinker".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html

---

What I saw in that video is a middle aged woman who is aggro and cray cray.

But I am not shocked it was spun as "RACIST WOMAN".

Ruining lives by projecting and attributing motive to ill-behaved people's actions is the "price of progress". It's payback, and such is merely collateral damage.

---

Difficult to determine if motive was racist but you're right, it will be spun that way. If it was the other way around and a black woman called the police on a "white" man, not sure if she would get the same treatment.

---

What the race hustlers and regressives don't, or can't, understand is that whether their motive is underpinned by some sort of racial prejudice (which is most often not knowable) is irrelevant whereas the behavior and intent DOES. What's relevant in this NON-STORY is that there is a woman acting a fool in the park, and in a very bizarre manner.

And she should be humiliated only because MSM and race hustlers project what they *want* errrrrrr *think* animates her behavior? To project that she was "weaponizing" his race as opposed to the crazy woman providing characteristics of the "suspect" to the dispatcher?

Why is that story even news? It was on Good Morning America for heaven's sake

calbear93 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

And you point is?

At the end of the day your stance benefits who?

---

I don't even know how to respond to this when it comes from you. You are the master of posting divisive videos with gibberish non-sense that seems to be an autobot version of a racist, progressive poster.

My point is that I don't want to hear from so called progressives like you about racism when, in my view, extremes on both sides, including you, are the guilty ones. Posting on a message board about what your progressive views are when you don't live your views do not make you a good person and definitely not the type of person who will have any influence whatsoever on anyone who is not already entrenched in your same viewpoint.

---

G4R's posts keep broadcasting how disinterested he is in facts and logic and how loyal he is to narrative and ideology.

I find his nonsensical posts bereft of content and good faith to be more troubling in this broader discussion than the tendencies to engage in abject racism like Bearister, AunBear, NIT etc.

The irony of posters like Aun Bear and others calling out bullshyte (without argument, or evidence of course) in a thread where these very people openly disregard definitions in service to what they think they should mean.

There is simply no way to interact with broader society in this dishonest and ideologically driven manner without being called on it left and right and being viewed as the most tedious person on earth UNLESS your daily life and social circle is a self-affirming bubble and echo chamber.

Anyone who calls the cops for bulk**** like this has significant problems dealing with the modern world- and probably drinks Aperol. The two correlate.

GBear4Life said:

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BearForce2 said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

---

You know, she seems entitled, and therefore, 99% chance she's a Democrat but I could be wrong. This is how those who think they're morally superior behave.

---

Yeah, I guess only leftist democrats stereotype people.

---

How about the fact that she donated to Obama and John Kerry's election only? Sound like a Republican to you?

Not too difficult to look up political donation history.

---

You think BearForce2 did that before he posted? I highly doubt it.

---

She's fired. You can guys can hire her now, she's a "independent thinker".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html

---

What I saw in that video is a middle aged woman who is aggro and cray cray.

But I am not shocked it was spun as "RACIST WOMAN".

Ruining lives by projecting and attributing motive to ill-behaved people's actions is the "price of progress". It's payback, and such is merely collateral damage.

---

Difficult to determine if motive was racist but you're right, it will be spun that way. If it was the other way around and a black woman called the police on a "white" man, not sure if she would get the same treatment.

---

What the race hustlers and regressives don't, or can't, understand is that whether their motive is underpinned by some sort of racial prejudice (which is most often not knowable) is irrelevant whereas the behavior and intent DOES. What's relevant in this NON-STORY is that there is a woman acting a fool in the park, and in a very bizarre manner.

And she should be humiliated only because MSM and race hustlers project what they *want* errrrrrr *think* animates her behavior? To project that she was "weaponizing" his race as opposed to the crazy woman providing characteristics of the "suspect" to the dispatcher?

Why is that story even news? It was on Good Morning America for heaven's sake

---

Because the left believes the U.S. and its institutions are systematically racist and getting worse. And since the U.S. is racist, it should be hated.

Stop pushing the boot lick agenda.

Meritorious Manumission = mentally lost POC with no sense of self

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

" Again, his race is irrelevant.."

Irrelevant to what? If it is irrelevant to how he was treated during the process of his arrest (up to and including his murder by suffocation) please share the facts that led you to draw that conclusion. I have done no research regarding the service history of that arresting officer, and I don't even know if that information is available yet. Often times it is not the offending officer's first rodeo.

Unit2Sucks said:

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I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?

I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?

Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.

---

I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).

And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.

---

No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).

However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?

GBear4Life said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

And you point is?

At the end of the day your stance benefits who?

---

I don't even know how to respond to this when it comes from you. You are the master of posting divisive videos with gibberish non-sense that seems to be an autobot version of a racist, progressive poster.

My point is that I don't want to hear from so called progressives like you about racism when, in my view, extremes on both sides, including you, are the guilty ones. Posting on a message board about what your progressive views are when you don't live your views do not make you a good person and definitely not the type of person who will have any influence whatsoever on anyone who is not already entrenched in your same viewpoint.

---

I agree, her reaction to a person of color comes from some preconceived idea about who this person was and what she could do to get him in the most trouble possible. She clearly exaggerated the situation and given the most recent interactions that people of color have had with law enforcement could have gotten him killed. It is only because the interaction was recorded that there is proof that she overreacted. She is going to have to own this. The lesson is that every interaction has the chance of being recorded and released to the public as everyone has the ability to record you and post the recording. A few years ago I was helping some friends out and took care of their kids at a time when two of their girls were going to prom. Before the group left I pulled the girls aside and said don't embarrass yourself, your parents, or me, everybody has a cell phone and if you act like an idiot it will be posted by the time you get home from the prom and it will be the talk of the community. When they got home I asked them how it went as they were having a few friends over and they related that there were a few individuals who showed up drunk to the prom and made a scene and were arrested by the police. Those interactions were recorded by a number of students and posted within a couple of hours. To this day the girls have never forgotten the advice and have passed it on to their younger siblings. Perhaps this woman should have remembered this.

---

Agree with your take. But an even easier way is to just be an authentic person.

So many people, in this social media era, think they are somehow dressed in moral superiority because they associate with certain political party, vilify the other side, or post views they don't reflect in their lives.

While the fear of being recorded is a powerful deterrent, another way not to get caught doing evil acts is just to be decent. I have heard so many times, including here, from others who say they don't focus on being generous and gracious with those around them because sprouting political views somehow has greater impact on society.

In this case, both sides could have done with a bit more generosity and grace. The person filming could have explained that dogs chewing up the field impacts the birds in the area instead of thinking "oh, you're not going to obey me? I will confuse your dog by giving him treats and then film you with threats of public shaming". ******* move, no matter the color of his skin. She responded by resorting to lies and racial profiling, bringing the police who are needed for real matters into her stupid dispute when she could have just been gracious and put her dog on a leash. Just *******s all around. That to me is the biggest takeaway.

---

Both parties were ****** bags. Girl is cray cray, the dude is the kinda guy who tells the teacher you walked into class 5 minutes late.

Both of them come off as tedious people who must be bores at parties.

---

Exactly. And those who were pushing for her to get fired will one day realize that this public shaming, cancel culture will come back to bite them in the ass as well.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?

I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?

Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.

---

I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).

And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.

---

No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).

However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?

---

I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.

I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?

I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?

Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.

---

I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).

And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.

---

No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).

However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?

---

I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.

I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.

---

I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.

The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.

As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.

"... As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party...." True, but sometimes the "there are bad people on both sides" analysis ends up being a little overly generous to one side or the other.

Republican activist who ran for Congress: Trump stole my party and my heart is breaking.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/07/19/silent-republicans-allow-racist-trump-rhetoric-to-define-party-column/1767510001/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1767510001

How Racist Is Trump's Republican Party?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.amp.html

The Republican Party has a racism problem. And it's not only Rep. Steve King. - Chicago Tribune


https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html%3foutputType=amp

How Trump Fuels the Fascist Right | by Bernard E. Harcourt | The New York Review of Books


https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/29/how-trump-fuels-the-fascist-right/

bearister said:

---

"... As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party...." True, but sometimes the "there are bad people on both sides" analysis ends up being a little overly generous to one side or the other.

Republican activist who ran for Congress: Trump stole my party and my heart is breaking.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/07/19/silent-republicans-allow-racist-trump-rhetoric-to-define-party-column/1767510001/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1767510001

How Racist Is Trump's Republican Party?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.amp.html

The Republican Party has a racism problem. And it's not only Rep. Steve King. - Chicago Tribune


https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html%3foutputType=amp

How Trump Fuels the Fascist Right | by Bernard E. Harcourt | The New York Review of Books


https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/29/how-trump-fuels-the-fascist-right/

---

How about there is bad inside of you. Start there and work on yourself first. Isn't that easier instead of creating some imaginary scale to measure whether one side of the political spectrum has more racism than the other? Thinking one side is more racist often ends up with not fixing yourself or fixing your side of the camp.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?

I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?

Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.

---

I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).

And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.

---

No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).

However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?

---

I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.

I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.

---

I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.

The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.

As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.

---

I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.

But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?

I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?

Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.

---

I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).

And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.

---

No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).

However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?

---

I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.

I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.

---

I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.

The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.

As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.

---

I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.

But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.

---

Sorry, must have missed the update to the definition of racism. So, racism exists not only when there is racism plus power but also when Unit2 deems that to be a problem.

Also, if you think considering individual racism is a waste of time, why worry about racism in any sense other than a global sense? Who cares about any of this. Anything we fix in one state or one country is not useful if it is not scalable to the universe. I understand that what happened to George Floyd is a tragedy and an outrage, but he is not a "society" or "institution," Why do you care? Bringing the officers to justice is just one instance and does not eliminate racism in the whole country. Why are we wasting time with that?

Must be nice to avoid all personal accountability and think promoting a viewpoint that moves no one is more effective than each of us trying to control what we can control in lieu of screaming at the sky. Working great so far in this country.

calbear93 said:

---

bearister said:

---

"... As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party...." True, but sometimes the "there are bad people on both sides" analysis ends up being a little overly generous to one side or the other.

Republican activist who ran for Congress: Trump stole my party and my heart is breaking.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/07/19/silent-republicans-allow-racist-trump-rhetoric-to-define-party-column/1767510001/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1767510001

How Racist Is Trump's Republican Party?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.amp.html

The Republican Party has a racism problem. And it's not only Rep. Steve King. - Chicago Tribune


https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html%3foutputType=amp

How Trump Fuels the Fascist Right | by Bernard E. Harcourt | The New York Review of Books


https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/29/how-trump-fuels-the-fascist-right/

---

How about there is bad inside of you. Start there and work on yourself first. Isn't that easier instead of creating some imaginary scale to measure whether one side of the political spectrum has more racism than the other? Thinking one side is more racist often ends up with not fixing yourself or fixing your side of the camp.

---

I think this kind of thinking makes it too easy to dodge the accountability that should come with supporting tRump. I'm pretty sure that it is not my imagination or personal thinking process that tRump attracts racists and enables them. It really doesn't matter if tRump is a racist himself. If he takes advantage of the fuel he gets from the Alt Right to propel himself, he is as bad or worse than they are.

Just answer this for me:

Why have the Alt Right adopted tRump as their own? and
Do you find that problematical?

bearister said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

bearister said:

---

"... As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party...." True, but sometimes the "there are bad people on both sides" analysis ends up being a little overly generous to one side or the other.

Republican activist who ran for Congress: Trump stole my party and my heart is breaking.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/07/19/silent-republicans-allow-racist-trump-rhetoric-to-define-party-column/1767510001/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1767510001

How Racist Is Trump's Republican Party?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.amp.html

The Republican Party has a racism problem. And it's not only Rep. Steve King. - Chicago Tribune


https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html%3foutputType=amp

How Trump Fuels the Fascist Right | by Bernard E. Harcourt | The New York Review of Books


https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/29/how-trump-fuels-the-fascist-right/

---

How about there is bad inside of you. Start there and work on yourself first. Isn't that easier instead of creating some imaginary scale to measure whether one side of the political spectrum has more racism than the other? Thinking one side is more racist often ends up with not fixing yourself or fixing your side of the camp.

---

I think this kind of thinking makes it too easy to dodge the accountability that should come with supporting tRump. I'm pretty sure that it is not my imagination or personal thinking process that tRump attracts racists and enables them. It really doesn't matter if tRump is a racist himself. If he takes advantage of the fuel he gets from the Alt Right to propel himself, he is as bad or worse than they are.

Just answer this for me:

Why have the Alt Right adopted tRump as their own? and
Do you find that problematical?

---

OK, only Trump supporters are racist. Since I don't support Trump, I'm perfect and don't need to do anything. Yes!

Don't know why that Amy Cooper woman donated to Obama when she clearly supports Trump.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amy-cooper-central-park-racist-dog-walker-trump-a9533581.html


When I do something that is otherwise horrible, it will be all fine since I don't support Trump and that makes me a perfect human being.

Just answer me this. Why have destructive anarchists and anti-semites adopted liberal candidates as their own?

I suspect you may go into a deep depression when Trump is voted out and you cannot blame all that is wrong in your life and all evils of the world on Trump. He IS a horrible leader but there is plenty wrong with this world, and this site is a small representation of how crappy and delusional we all are.

This is an awesome and substantive conversation. Thanks for making it all about Trump and all about politics. Because when you break down who you are., you are defined entirely by whether you are a Democrat or Republican. There is nothing else to you.