Pac-12 commish George Kliavkoff visiiting SMU

117,335 Views | 1094 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by calumnus
calumnus
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OskiDeLaHoya said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


Not necessarily. This ACC package is their tier 3 games. I could easily see those games being aired at 9am PT or 12:30pm PT. The CW could accommodate an ACC/Pac double-header with the Pac-12 game airing at 1pm or 4:30pm .

I have a suspicion the CW will be involved in the Pac deal. No inside info, just a gut feel.

In fact here's what I think will happen::
- Apple will own the rights to all Pac-12 games. Pac-12 fans will be able to subscribe to Apple-TV+ or a specific package and get every game
- Apple will sublicense a top pick Game of the Week to the CW and that game will be simulcast on both ATV+ and the CW, coast to coast
- Apple will sublicense a 2nd (Pac-12 After Dark) game to ESPN on Saturday nights. Perhaps the CW and ESPN alternate 1st picks. This game will also be seen on ATV+ and ESPN coast-to-coast
-Apple might sublicense 1-2 more games and allow them to be simulcast. These could be a Thursday/Friday game on ESPN or another Saturday game on the.CW. I could see that other CW game being shown regionally over the air. To see it on the east coast, you would need to subscribe to ATV+.
- The remaining matchups for the week would be available exclusively on ATV+




That would actually be pretty great for Cal fans that live outside the area.
WoodlandBear
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From here in Louisiana that certainly looks great to me.
oskidunker
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SDS says they are not leaving their current conference
Go Bears!
wifeisafurd
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calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


But frees up space on ESPN?

With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Several linear providers are not going to make it. Seems like the conservative approach is to let a successful streamer lead and sub out to linear providers. If you want to get depressed, read this:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/writers-strike-tv-industry-streaming-problem-1235666463/ - Peak TV Has Peaked: From Exhausted Talent to Massive Losses, the Writers Strike Magnifies an Industry in Freefall

Horrible timing for the Pac to be looking for TV rights, though the strikes could help, depending on what happens. .



calumnus
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wifeisafurd said:

calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


But frees up space on ESPN?

With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Several linear providers are not going to make it. Seems like the conservative approach is to let a successful streamer lead and sub out to linear providers. If you want to get depressed, read this:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/writers-strike-tv-industry-streaming-problem-1235666463/ - Peak TV Has Peaked: From Exhausted Talent to Massive Losses, the Writers Strike Magnifies an Industry in Freefall

Horrible timing for the Pac to be looking for TV rights, though the strikes could help, depending on what happens. .






It makes sense there will be a shake out, but that will take time and just proves content is king, and will remain king. At a time when lineal networks need content to survive, exacerbated by a writers and actors strike, the PAC has a lot of content to sell. This could really be a godsend.
PtownBear1
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Somewhat tangential rant here - am I the only one that hates streaming? It's so f'ing annoying.

All the lag between changing shows and services, the fact that rewind and fast forward never work correctly except maybe on Netflix, the presentation of shows where they keep trying to push new crap on you instead of making it easy to access what you were watching previously first.

If streaming is indeed the future, which unfortunately, it appears to be, TV is going to be a ****ty experience. And this is coming from someone who's not old, has 1 gig internet, and subscribes to cable and every major streaming service.
OskiDeLaHoya
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PtownBear1 said:

Somewhat tangential rant here - am I the only one that hates streaming? It's so f'ing annoying.

All the lag between changing shows and services, the fact that rewind and fast forward never work correctly except maybe on Netflix, the presentation of shows where they keep trying to push new crap on you instead of making it easy to access what you were watching previously first.

If streaming is indeed the future, which unfortunately, it appears to be, TV is going to be a ****ty experience. And this is coming from someone who's not old, has 1 gig internet, and subscribes to cable and every major streaming service.


You're not the only one. The crappy user experience with streaming is one of the reasons I haven't cut the cord yet. I like to channel surf and you just can't do that very easily with streaming. We have an Xfinity box in our living room and one of the bedroom TVs (a Roku TV) has the Xfinity streaming app. The difference in experience is night and day.

We'll probably see more innovation in the streaming front to help mitigate some of the downsides but the streaming ecosystem is not there yet. Maybe we will see something like YouTubeTV's multiview (which can show 4 games at once). It's the only cool streaming feature I like, even though I don't subscribe. A multiview across streaming platforms (Peacock, Live TV, ESPN+, and AppleTV+, for example) would help address my desire to channel surf between games
Goobear
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I just cut the cord. Feeling the cable box tech is getting old. We have nothing but problems having to reboot. We are at the end of the street where I was told the signal is worst. Wife tested YouTube TV and likes to be able to use the Apple TV remote to control all devices. Added fast internet and still save $90 a month. So far so good.
Bobodeluxe
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I enjoy ads for … just about everything!

If only the game breaks could be extended to five or six minutes, …
Golden One
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PtownBear1 said:

Somewhat tangential rant here - am I the only one that hates streaming? It's so f'ing annoying.

All the lag between changing shows and services, the fact that rewind and fast forward never work correctly except maybe on Netflix, the presentation of shows where they keep trying to push new crap on you instead of making it easy to access what you were watching previously first.

If streaming is indeed the future, which unfortunately, it appears to be, TV is going to be a ****ty experience. And this is coming from someone who's not old, has 1 gig internet, and subscribes to cable and every major streaming service.
I'm with you! Streaming sucks.
philbert
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Goobear said:

I just cut the cord. Feeling the cable box tech is getting old. We have nothing but problems having to reboot. We are at the end of the street where I was told the signal is worst. Wife tested YouTube TV and likes to be able to use the Apple TV remote to control all devices. Added fast internet and still save $90 a month. So far so good.
When I still had Comcrap cable eons ago, I also had issues with a weak signal. I got a signal booster and a lot of my issues disappeared. Customer service still sucked, though.
Bearly Clad
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My real issue with streaming is the dozen or so different services it takes to get all the content that a traditional box set used to. So honestly I just stream everything for free until they consolidate into a workable and reasonably priced version. Plus the free streams I get for sports are actually often a higher quality than my cable was, and if you look around you can find options with no commercials to not be inundated with ads. Best part though? I've found streams that were actually 30-45s *ahead* of my comcast feed. For a little free piracy with some digging work that's more than I could ask for
BearSD
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calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:





With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Starting this fall, NBC will televise a Big Ten game on Saturday evening (east coast time), presumably starting at 7 or 7:30 pm ET to avoid the end of the game bleeding into SNL's 11:30 start time. Notre Dame has 8 annual home games on NBC, so NBC only has 4 or 5 Saturday afternoons available for additional CFB games, if they even wanted more.
wifeisafurd
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calumnus said:

wifeisafurd said:

calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


But frees up space on ESPN?

With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Several linear providers are not going to make it. Seems like the conservative approach is to let a successful streamer lead and sub out to linear providers. If you want to get depressed, read this:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/writers-strike-tv-industry-streaming-problem-1235666463/ - Peak TV Has Peaked: From Exhausted Talent to Massive Losses, the Writers Strike Magnifies an Industry in Freefall

Horrible timing for the Pac to be looking for TV rights, though the strikes could help, depending on what happens. .






It makes sense there will be a shake out, but that will take time and just proves content is king, and will remain king. At a time when lineal networks need content to survive, exacerbated by a writers and actors strike, the PAC has a lot of content to sell. This could really be a godsend.
I'm just wondering if the benefit doesn't accrue to the Pac's main streaming partner, rather than the Pac. The strikes were not a guarantee when negotiations were occurring (this assumes that the contract has been negotiated - which amazingly may not be the case at this late date).
wifeisafurd
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BearSD said:

calumnus said:


With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Starting this fall, NBC will televise a Big Ten game on Saturday evening (east coast time), presumably starting at 7 or 7:30 pm ET to avoid the end of the game bleeding into SNL's 11:30 start time. Notre Dame has 8 annual home games on NBC, so NBC only has 4 or 5 Saturday afternoons available for additional CFB games, if they even wanted more.

This assumes there will be a SNL given the strikes; although I supposed they could view old SNL shows
BearSD
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wifeisafurd said:

BearSD said:

calumnus said:


With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Starting this fall, NBC will televise a Big Ten game on Saturday evening (east coast time), presumably starting at 7 or 7:30 pm ET to avoid the end of the game bleeding into SNL's 11:30 start time. Notre Dame has 8 annual home games on NBC, so NBC only has 4 or 5 Saturday afternoons available for additional CFB games, if they even wanted more.

This assumes there will be a SNL given the strikes; although I supposed they could view old SNL shows


There may not be any new SNLs for quite awhile, but at some point during the Big Ten's deal with NBC, they will have live SNL episodes after the football game. It will probably be the best lead-in program that SNL has ever had.
wifeisafurd
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BearSD said:

wifeisafurd said:

BearSD said:

calumnus said:


With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Starting this fall, NBC will televise a Big Ten game on Saturday evening (east coast time), presumably starting at 7 or 7:30 pm ET to avoid the end of the game bleeding into SNL's 11:30 start time. Notre Dame has 8 annual home games on NBC, so NBC only has 4 or 5 Saturday afternoons available for additional CFB games, if they even wanted more.

This assumes there will be a SNL given the strikes; although I supposed they could view old SNL shows


There may not be any new SNLs for quite awhile, but at some point during the Big Ten's deal with NBC, they will have live SNL episodes after the football game. It will probably be the best lead-in program that SNL has ever had.
agreed. Maybe that even means a Cal home game at some point.
Hawaii Haas
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wifeisafurd said:

calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


But frees up space on ESPN?

With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Several linear providers are not going to make it. Seems like the conservative approach is to let a successful streamer lead and sub out to linear providers. If you want to get depressed, read this:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/writers-strike-tv-industry-streaming-problem-1235666463/ - Peak TV Has Peaked: From Exhausted Talent to Massive Losses, the Writers Strike Magnifies an Industry in Freefall

Horrible timing for the Pac to be looking for TV rights, though the strikes could help, depending on what happens. .






Peak TV has peaked.

I had a choice to make this past weekend. Watch Mission Impossible in the theater or not (I had no choice, b/c wife wanted to). I had the strikers (actors, writers) in mind. I went to the movie.

End of the day, like any negotiation for money, your chances of getting more money is when everyone is flush. If there's less money, then there's less money to share. Better that Hollywood makes money this summer so more movies are made. Maybe I'm being naive.

Anyways, I don't see how this turbulence helps the Pac-12. Contract is for several years and this strike could be 6 months or so (nobody knows). Maybe more games temporarily on the big channels, but live sports are not cheap unless there's a discount.
BigDaddy
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calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


But frees up space on ESPN?

With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
The plan on NBC is to air Notre Dame plus a Saturday night B1G game.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
wifeisafurd
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Hawaii Haas said:

wifeisafurd said:

calumnus said:

Strykur said:

calumnus said:

BigDaddy said:


Interesting. At one point the CW was being mentioned as an OTA partner for the Pac-12.
Still might be. I don't know if their acquisition of ACC games is good for the PAC-10 or bad for the PAC-10.
It means fewer slots on a lineal network and dwindling options.


But frees up space on ESPN?

With the writers and now actors strike, there has to be interest for content on the lineal networks. Maybe NBC now is interested in having a PAC-10 game immediately after the Notre Dame game?
Several linear providers are not going to make it. Seems like the conservative approach is to let a successful streamer lead and sub out to linear providers. If you want to get depressed, read this:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/writers-strike-tv-industry-streaming-problem-1235666463/ - Peak TV Has Peaked: From Exhausted Talent to Massive Losses, the Writers Strike Magnifies an Industry in Freefall

Horrible timing for the Pac to be looking for TV rights, though the strikes could help, depending on what happens. .






Peak TV has peaked.

I had a choice to make this past weekend. Watch Mission Impossible in the theater or not (I had no choice, b/c wife wanted to). I had the strikers (actors, writers) in mind. I went to the movie.

End of the day, like any negotiation for money, your chances of getting more money is when everyone is flush. If there's less money, then there's less money to share. Better that Hollywood makes money this summer so more movies are made. Maybe I'm being naive.

Anyways, I don't see how this turbulence helps the Pac-12. Contract is for several years and this strike could be 6 months or so (nobody knows). Maybe more games temporarily on the big channels, but live sports are not cheap unless there's a discount.
Could not agree more.

In this industry town (LA), the noise is to boycott watching product , which seems counterintuitive, and inconsistent with your philosophy. Optics wise, this is by far the most angry I have seen Hollywood, and I have l lived here 65 years, less my years at Cal. The disruptions to what was the standard TV/Movie business model have been amazing. Disney, in particular, is being very aggressive, with Iger having just laid off 7% of the employees, putting ABC up for sale (and threatening to end the network - which is burning cash - if a buyer is not found), suggesting ESPN may go all streaming (wonder if that impacts the Pac deal?) , etc. It is not business as usual any more, which in turn, may explain why the Pac is having such a tough time solidifying a deal.
Oski87
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Seems to me that the issues the actors and writers are focus on - the streaming residuals and the ability to keep get paid for their image and voice, and control that over the future - are big critical issues as we go forward. I would even say that the image issues could be a legislated situation - sort of like IP for companies and patents.

That being said - all of that means that there is a lot more demand for unscripted TV like athletics from the viewpoint of the studios. And for streamers - frankly there is not a lot more money to be made if you have a subscription and watch a movie that cost 100 million to make vs one that costs 5 million to make. So the writers and the actors get no residuals, the streamers get no bump with better quality, except perhaps with some additional subscriptions (which are probably topping out now). But with athletics - ads make a revenue difference. So you get people to sign on for sports, and then you continue to make money with sports ads. I had heard that Netflix makes more profit from the small amount of people who buy their ad driven programming than the direct subscribers already. If that is the case, the era of ad free streaming is almost over. So what is the point of cutting the cord? Well, it is too late for that. Netflix, like pandora - has basically killed the hollywood goose, and now there is just the rush to buy old studios with their catalogs so that we can see in the future what good filmmaking used to look like. The difference is that people will still go to concerts. Maybe there will still be money to be made making theater films. But you have to stop bringing it to streaming 10 minutes after they open.

To be honest, I think they all killed themselves by giving away their IP to Netflix, etc. Sure - there were going to be cord cutters. But if you look at TV today on the networks - there are absolutely zero shows anyone wants to watch except for the news, perhaps, and those who enjoy watching terrible choices on reality TV. It is a wasteland - no wonder no one makes any money. Scripted shows are all on Cable channels - driving whatever revenue is there, and the streaming platforms. Or sports. The only thing that bring eyeballs back to TV network channels is sports.

So I do think it is a big mess all around, but I also think that everyone knows that you have to have sports content of die.

Econ141
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Shouldn't these media companies look at sports as an investment? Why pay pac-12 teams only 30 million per year when that almost assures the teams to lose out on the best athletes and coaches (and hence lower entertainment product). If they matched the B1G (humor me for a second but even if they got into the 45-50mm range) wouldn't the perception and attractiveness of our teams increase? Followed by actual performance?
calumnus
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Econ141 said:

Shouldn't these media companies look at sports as an investment? Why pay pac-12 teams only 30 million per year when that almost assures the teams to lose out on the best athletes and coaches (and hence lower entertainment product). If they matched the B1G (humor me for a second but even if they got into the 45-50mm range) wouldn't the perception and attractiveness of our teams increase? Followed by actual performance?


Right now, (someone with greater knowledge correct me) the college football world is mostly divided up between ESPN and Fox with ESPN having, importantly, the SEC, and Fox mostly having the Big 10. ESPN has the ACC and Big 12 and had the PAC-12.

An electric player like Najee Harris leaving the Bay Area to star for Alabama instead of Cal was a bonus for ESPN. In general, the media duopoly already controls the broadcast rights for the top players because top players will go to the SEC or B1G if they want the media exposure (and NIL it generates).

That said, either ESPN has screwed up or I just don't understand their strategy. They had the PAC-12, a great follow up in later time zones to their SEC and ACC programming. By underpaying the PAC-12 they set up the defection of the LA schools to the B1G and Fox. Now by refusing to deal they likely lose the best remaining West Coast markets to the B1G and Fox as well. Meanwhile they are forcing the PAC-10 to search out and bring new networks and streaming services into the market.

I really think ESPN's best strategy is to work with the ACC and PAC-10 to set up a joint football schedule with weekly broadcast of an ACC team playing a PAC-10 team on the West Coast in a game that matters to viewers on the East Coast and in turn get more money to those schools to stop future defection to the B1G and Fox.
mdcspe69
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I think the real problem is that ESPN, Disney and the entire entertainment industry if facing serious financial problems. That is what the SAG and Actors Guild strike is all about.
BearSD
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Quote:

To be honest, I think they all killed themselves by giving away their IP to Netflix, etc. Sure - there were going to be cord cutters. But if you look at TV today on the networks - there are absolutely zero shows anyone wants to watch except for the news, perhaps, and those who enjoy watching terrible choices on reality TV. It is a wasteland - no wonder no one makes any money. Scripted shows are all on Cable channels - driving whatever revenue is there, and the streaming platforms. Or sports. The only thing that bring eyeballs back to TV network channels is sports.
The legacy companies did make a mistake in licensing all their IP to Netflix and then letting Netflix get so big. The turning point was when they realized Netflix's market cap was larger than Disney's. But they overreacted to that by each launching their own streaming business -- Disney+, Peacock, Paramount+, "max", etc. -- and committing to losing hundreds of millions a year while ramping up their new services to hoped-for future profitability.

Now the companies' solution to the mess they created is to screw writers and actors and then fill up their streaming services with a constant supply of low-cost programming.
wifeisafurd
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BearSD said:

Quote:

To be honest, I think they all killed themselves by giving away their IP to Netflix, etc. Sure - there were going to be cord cutters. But if you look at TV today on the networks - there are absolutely zero shows anyone wants to watch except for the news, perhaps, and those who enjoy watching terrible choices on reality TV. It is a wasteland - no wonder no one makes any money. Scripted shows are all on Cable channels - driving whatever revenue is there, and the streaming platforms. Or sports. The only thing that bring eyeballs back to TV network channels is sports.
The legacy companies did make a mistake in licensing all their IP to Netflix and then letting Netflix get so big. The turning point was when they realized Netflix's market cap was larger than Disney's. But they overreacted to that by each launching their own streaming business -- Disney+, Peacock, Paramount+, "max", etc. -- and committing to losing hundreds of millions a year while ramping up their new services to hoped-for future profitability.

Now the companies' solution to the mess they created is to screw writers and actors and then fill up their streaming services with a constant supply of low-cost programming.

I can see that for Disney, Paramount and others.

Netflix, Prime, and to a lesser degree Apple, no long need to play that game. Netflix and Prime (and probably Apple) don't even provide meaningful residuals to writers and were not being subject to the writer's strike, but now are shut down domestically due to the actors out on strike. To avoid a lack of content, these streamers will rely more heavily on international series (using acting talent outside of the SAG membership) or nonscripted reality series content, such as all those docu-series on different sports (e.g., Formal 1: Drive to Survive). This is easier for services like Prime and Netflix to handle, which are well-established overseas and have the non-scripted content well in hand. Apple is somewhat more vulnerable, but still light years ahead of Disney and other traditional brands. They also have cash reserves to do what they want, including college sports.


Disney and other traditional guys are in a far worse position. They are hemorrhaging cash and spending $30 million upward annually per team plus development costs for a weakening college sports conference on streaming seems like a questionable play, when they are all in a gigantic cutting frenzy.

As for Netflix, Prime and Apple, maybe one of them thinks college sports work. But if things are as dire as everyone suggests, the actors and writers are fighting over a diminished pie, and the bigger players are better insulated from the strikes, so the strikes will settle soon enough. Any investment in Pac programming will need to make financial sense on its own.

Let's say it is $35 million annually per program plus all the costs in starting a sports network (with some help in cutting costs from using defunct Pac 12 network infrstrututre). If it is the Pac 12 (SDSU and SMU), that is $420 million annually, plus annual costs, let's say $150 million (200% of what the Pac 12 network was costing annually) and development, and startup marketing costs of say $300 million (wild arse guess - Wilner said Pac 12 network initially lost $100 million ). So we are talking a $1 billion in the first year or so, and around $500 million annually. Most people think the number will come in around $35 to $40 million per program in say a five year deal (Big 12 is a six year deal), and even that will not be close to sufficient to fend off the B1G in the long run. This is not happening for the traditional media sources not named Fox or ESPN that already have made the investment. So we are asking does this equate to short run profit for streamers in increasing subscriptions in something like a five year period, before the Pac blows-up?

Edit: My comment about the major streamers not being subject to the writers strike was not accurate. I misread a Variety article. They were hit by the writers strike on domestic production.
wifeisafurd
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calumnus said:

Econ141 said:

Shouldn't these media companies look at sports as an investment? Why pay pac-12 teams only 30 million per year when that almost assures the teams to lose out on the best athletes and coaches (and hence lower entertainment product). If they matched the B1G (humor me for a second but even if they got into the 45-50mm range) wouldn't the perception and attractiveness of our teams increase? Followed by actual performance?


Right now, (someone with greater knowledge correct me) the college football world is mostly divided up between ESPN and Fox with ESPN having, importantly, the SEC, and Fox mostly having the Big 10. ESPN has the ACC and Big 12 and had the PAC-12.

An electric player like Najee Harris leaving the Bay Area to star for Alabama instead of Cal was a bonus for ESPN. In general, the media duopoly already controls the broadcast rights for the top players because top players will go to the SEC or B1G if they want the media exposure (and NIL it generates).

That said, either ESPN has screwed up or I just don't understand their strategy. They had the PAC-12, a great follow up in later time zones to their SEC and ACC programming. By underpaying the PAC-12 they set up the defection of the LA schools to the B1G and Fox. Now by refusing to deal they likely lose the best remaining West Coast markets to the B1G and Fox as well. Meanwhile they are forcing the PAC-10 to search out and bring new networks and streaming services into the market.

I really think ESPN's best strategy is to work with the ACC and PAC-10 to set up a joint football schedule with weekly broadcast of an ACC team playing a PAC-10 team on the West Coast in a game that matters to viewers on the East Coast and in turn get more money to those schools to stop future defection to the B1G and Fox.
Interesting stuff.

I don't really understand ESPN supposedly withdrawing from negotiations with the Pac. The network did a lot of meddling and got us a nice, large football playoff. that was a plus. They likely were behind the start of realignment, by getting Texas and Okie to the SEC. The Big 12 even sent ESPN a cease and desist letter. That led in the natural progression of things for the B1G to respond by going after SC and UCLA.

So what is really weird is that as early as July 2022, there were news reports that Cal, Furd, Oregon and Udub, all in good TV markets, were being vetted by the B1G. Big Ten evaluating Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington ...CBS Sportshttps://www.cbssports.com college-football news Why drive these 4 teams into Fox territory? Are the Arizona teams, Utah (which could get a B1G invite) and Colorado that important to their Big 12 tv contract? is this part of a master plan for a college football major league, which Fox and ESPN control the broadcasting rights? Why not use the ACC, Big 12 and Pac to leverage the B1G and Fox?

All this happened before Disney started going tits-up and ESPN became too expensive. I really don't understand why ESPN didn't take more initiative. They used to be the dominant player, and now it looks like they may have set the stage for an interloper streaming company to become involved. Go figure.

All this occurred before Disney and TV started going tits-up.
Hawaii Haas
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Netflix led to more cord cutting, but it's still a subscription.

I blame YouTube foremost. No SAG, no WGA, no big budgets. Some guy eating food in Bangkok. Or Cal football highlights on demand for free.

The long tail content that is free, is what started all this.

YouTube for TV is the Pandora for Music. Now you have YouTube content providers rivaling Hollywood stars in terms of following.

I think YouTube killed ESPN's SportsCenter. It's still around, but no longer am I waiting during some 30 min show (and commercials) to see my team's highlights.

This also means (mostly) only blockbusters with high statistical probability of success are being funded. Those recurring cash cows are major movie sequels and TV series, sports leagues with reliable followings, etc. some money will be spend on fillers. Hamilton got us to subscribe to Disney+. Game of Thrones for HBO; Succession for Max. Netflix because they had first mover. Apple, I don't have but when Jason Momoa's ancient Hawaii show comes out. Prime, we had. Subscribers pay for hit shows.
HateRed
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How in the hell did this topic evolve to this crap?
BearSD
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wifeisafurd said:

BearSD said:

Quote:





Let's say it is $35 million annually per program plus all the costs in starting a sports network (with some help in cutting costs from using defunct Pac 12 network infrstrututre). If it is the Pac 12 (SDSU and SMU), that is $420 million annually, plus annual costs, let's say $150 million (200% of what the Pac 12 network was costing annually) and development, and startup marketing costs of say $300 million (wild arse guess - Wilner said Pac 12 network initially lost $100 million ). So we are talking a $1 billion in the first year or so, and around $500 million annually. Most people think the number will come in around $35 to $40 million per program in say a five year deal (Big 12 is a six year deal), and even that will not be close to sufficient to fend off the B1G in the long run. This is not happening for the traditional media sources not named Fox or ESPN that already have made the investment. So we are asking does this equate to short run profit for streamers in increasing subscriptions in something like a five year period, before the Pac blows-up?

Neither Apple nor Amazon will be starting a sports network if they buy the Pac-12 broadcast rights. They will just have links on the home pages of their site to access the games, as Apple does now with its MLB games and Amazon does with its NFL games.

Perhaps whatever price is announced will include leasing or selling all of the Pac-12 Network infrastructure, and the additional overhead costs will be minimal. They're not going to broadcast all of the programming that PTN has been airing. It seems likely that any Pac-12 sports telecasts other than football and basketball would be streamed at the conference's expense.

Also: If the legacy broadcasters are really squeezed for money, then it's doubtful they want to pony up more money to finance further Big Ten expansion in the near future, and even more doubtful that they want to give more money to the Big 12. They might already regret their new Big 12 contract. If the broadcasters are financially healthy and the sports business is booming, then things would be different.
philbert
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Apple does charge extra for its MLS package.
Hawaii Haas
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HateRed said:

How in the hell did this topic evolve to this crap?


Running out of topics on this topic
wifeisafurd
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Hawaii Haas said:

HateRed said:

How in the hell did this topic evolve to this crap?


Running out of topics on this topic
need something to fill the void. Not like the Pac is telling us anything is happening on the media deal.
BigDaddy
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“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
philly1121
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Hawaii Haas said:

Netflix led to more cord cutting, but it's still a subscription.

I blame YouTube foremost. No SAG, no WGA, no big budgets. Some guy eating food in Bangkok. Or Cal football highlights on demand for free.

The long tail content that is free, is what started all this.

YouTube for TV is the Pandora for Music. Now you have YouTube content providers rivaling Hollywood stars in terms of following.

I think YouTube killed ESPN's SportsCenter. It's still around, but no longer am I waiting during some 30 min show (and commercials) to see my team's highlights.

This also means (mostly) only blockbusters with high statistical probability of success are being funded. Those recurring cash cows are major movie sequels and TV series, sports leagues with reliable followings, etc. some money will be spend on fillers. Hamilton got us to subscribe to Disney+. Game of Thrones for HBO; Succession for Max. Netflix because they had first mover. Apple, I don't have but when Jason Momoa's ancient Hawaii show comes out. Prime, we had. Subscribers pay for hit shows.
I think you're right. Youtube was/is huge. Netflix is huge.

I've seen alot of youtube content as to how we got to where we are with the Writers Guild and SAG strikes. Movie studios and producers being greedy. Hiding or undervaluing residuals from box office, streaming.

So the argument goes - no one is interest in super hero movies anymore. The Flash was a box office bomb. Tentpole movies like Indiana Jones are not breaking even. The convenience of staying at home and watching a film that was released barely two weeks before is too enticing for people. After you pay $30 for two for a matinee, they rob you at the concession stand for $50 more.

Perhaps live sports is the way to go. Its content that is not a sequel to anything. It stands pretty much on its own.

Then again, networks want something that will bring people in to watch. Are people going to watch the Pac 10 more than the SEC or B1G? I doubt it. Probably another reason why there are no takers for the P10.
 
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