Pac-12 commish George Kliavkoff visiiting SMU

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BigDaddy
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In reply to berserkeley • 9:40a, 2/21/23
berserkeley said:
The outcome seems pretty set: the Pac-12 invites SDSU and SMU and signs a contract with Amazon and ESPN that pays roughly $31.7M per team for the current 10 with the 2 new additions receiving something less than that.

No broadcast games on linear TV on Saturdays before most the country goes to bed.
No plans on how to pay for the new guys once they're eligible to receive full shares.
Ratings for the Pac-12 will look awful compared to other power conferences over the next few years no matter the quality of the content.
No one is happy and every is looking for the exits before the next round of media negotiations.
Only thing keeping the conference together for now is that automatic post season bid and the lack of better options.

The only way this isn't the outcome is if Kliavkoff can't even get to $30M for the current 10 and the Pac-12 implodes.

I expect Kliavkoff to announce his resignation soon after this media deal is signed.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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Golden One
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In reply to BigDaddy • 12:02p, 2/21/23
BigDaddy said:

I expect Kliavkoff to announce his resignation soon after this media deal is signed.
To be replaced by none other than Jim Knowlton!
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BigDaddy
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1:59p, 2/21/23
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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calumnus
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In reply to berserkeley • 2:11p, 2/21/23
berserkeley said:
The outcome seems pretty set: the Pac-12 invites SDSU and SMU and signs a contract with Amazon and ESPN that pays roughly $31.7M per team for the current 10 with the 2 new additions receiving something less than that.

No broadcast games on linear TV on Saturdays before most the country goes to bed.
No plans on how to pay for the new guys once they're eligible to receive full shares.
Ratings for the Pac-12 will look awful compared to other power conferences over the next few years no matter the quality of the content.
No one is happy and every is looking for the exits before the next round of media negotiations.
Only thing keeping the conference together for now is that automatic post season bid and the lack of better options.

The only way this isn't the outcome is if Kliavkoff can't even get to $30M for the current 10 and the Pac-12 implodes.


Yeah, that is quite possible and pretty bleak. It would be short term gain ($) at long term cost and is just what administrators looking to preserve their big salaries would do at the expense of long term survival of the programs they are paid to manage.

The only hope would be that we survive it and eventually get invited to the B1G.
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calumnus
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In reply to BigDaddy • 2:23p, 2/21/23
BigDaddy said:


Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
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philly1121
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In reply to berserkeley • 2:46p, 2/21/23
berserkeley said:
The outcome seems pretty set: the Pac-12 invites SDSU and SMU and signs a contract with Amazon and ESPN that pays roughly $31.7M per team for the current 10 with the 2 new additions receiving something less than that.

No broadcast games on linear TV on Saturdays before most the country goes to bed.
No plans on how to pay for the new guys once they're eligible to receive full shares.
Ratings for the Pac-12 will look awful compared to other power conferences over the next few years no matter the quality of the content.
No one is happy and every is looking for the exits before the next round of media negotiations.
Only thing keeping the conference together for now is that automatic post season bid and the lack of better options.

The only way this isn't the outcome is if Kliavkoff can't even get to $30M for the current 10 and the Pac-12 implodes.

If we were anywhere near that $31.7M, it would be a miracle. And if Apple TV is now going to be a partner, you can kiss tv exposure goodbye. P12 is getting no offers except nonlinear programming.

My fear is that the deal is announced and then UO and UW go hat in hand to the B10 and beg to be let in. I would expect the 4 corner schools to do the same with the B12. This new deal has to hit at least $30M or its over.
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sosheezy
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In reply to philly1121 • 2:49p, 2/21/23
philly1121 said:
berserkeley said:
The outcome seems pretty set: the Pac-12 invites SDSU and SMU and signs a contract with Amazon and ESPN that pays roughly $31.7M per team for the current 10 with the 2 new additions receiving something less than that.

No broadcast games on linear TV on Saturdays before most the country goes to bed.
No plans on how to pay for the new guys once they're eligible to receive full shares.
Ratings for the Pac-12 will look awful compared to other power conferences over the next few years no matter the quality of the content.
No one is happy and every is looking for the exits before the next round of media negotiations.
Only thing keeping the conference together for now is that automatic post season bid and the lack of better options.

The only way this isn't the outcome is if Kliavkoff can't even get to $30M for the current 10 and the Pac-12 implodes.

If we were anywhere near that $31.7M, it would be a miracle. And if Apple TV is now going to be a partner, you can kiss tv exposure goodbye. P12 is getting no offers except nonlinear programming.

My fear is that the deal is announced and then UO and UW go hat in hand to the B10 and beg to be let in. I would expect the 4 corner schools to do the same with the B12. This new deal has to hit at least $30M or its over.
Maybe its a chicken or the egg thing, but why would they sign a deal then beg to let out of it? If you don't want to be heavy streaming, don't sign a deal or push for one with linear TV.
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Bobodeluxe
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2:51p, 2/21/23
Commercial free broadcast. 2 1/2 hour games. Stream on demand. Games played at the times chosen by the home team.

This will destroy the lucrative business of mercenary laundry semi-pro football!

This will not stand!
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to BigDaddy • 2:58p, 2/21/23
BigDaddy said:
Maybe George has some cattle, to go with the hat, or a rabbit. You pick the metaphor.
Wonder how this got leaked?

Maybe a chance for a payday to keep the Pac together?
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to calumnus • 3:04p, 2/21/23
calumnus said:
BigDaddy said:


Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
The article suggests that it would be an all Apple deal with citing any sources or rational for that. If ESPN was willing to share games with Prime, why not with Apple TV?
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philly1121
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In reply to sosheezy • 3:29p, 2/21/23
sosheezy said:
philly1121 said:
berserkeley said:
The outcome seems pretty set: the Pac-12 invites SDSU and SMU and signs a contract with Amazon and ESPN that pays roughly $31.7M per team for the current 10 with the 2 new additions receiving something less than that.

No broadcast games on linear TV on Saturdays before most the country goes to bed.
No plans on how to pay for the new guys once they're eligible to receive full shares.
Ratings for the Pac-12 will look awful compared to other power conferences over the next few years no matter the quality of the content.
No one is happy and every is looking for the exits before the next round of media negotiations.
Only thing keeping the conference together for now is that automatic post season bid and the lack of better options.

The only way this isn't the outcome is if Kliavkoff can't even get to $30M for the current 10 and the Pac-12 implodes.

If we were anywhere near that $31.7M, it would be a miracle. And if Apple TV is now going to be a partner, you can kiss tv exposure goodbye. P12 is getting no offers except nonlinear programming.

My fear is that the deal is announced and then UO and UW go hat in hand to the B10 and beg to be let in. I would expect the 4 corner schools to do the same with the B12. This new deal has to hit at least $30M or its over.
Maybe its a chicken or the egg thing, but why would they sign a deal then beg to let out of it? If you don't want to be heavy streaming, don't sign a deal or push for one with linear TV.
I'll rephrase. The deal will be brought to the AD's. They may say, "nope. Not enough." and beg to be let into the B1G, B12.
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sosheezy
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In reply to wifeisafurd • 3:37p, 2/21/23
wifeisafurd said:
calumnus said:
BigDaddy said:


Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
The article suggests that it would be an all Apple deal with citing any sources or rational for that. If ESPN was willing to share games with Prime, why not with Apple TV?


I wonder if the Apple element is presented to the PAC presidents an exclusive streaming alternative for likely slightly higher $ than an ESPN and Amazon deal. Then they choose - more money vs a little more traditional exposure. I'd think we're close to the end of this if it's an choose a or b scenario we're in
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to sosheezy • 3:44p, 2/21/23
sosheezy said:
wifeisafurd said:
calumnus said:
BigDaddy said:


Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
The article suggests that it would be an all Apple deal with citing any sources or rational for that. If ESPN was willing to share games with Prime, why not with Apple TV?


I wonder if the Apple element is presented to the PAC presidents an exclusive streaming alternative for likely slightly higher $ than an ESPN and Amazon deal. Then they choose - more money vs a little more traditional exposure. I'd think we're close to the end of this if it's an choose a or b scenario we're in
Could be. Lot of speculation going on. If it is ESPN/Apple, unless something has changed, I don't see a lasting deal among the current members. Be curious who leaked Apple's name.
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sosheezy
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In reply to wifeisafurd • 3:48p, 2/21/23
wifeisafurd said:
sosheezy said:
wifeisafurd said:
calumnus said:
BigDaddy said:


Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
The article suggests that it would be an all Apple deal with citing any sources or rational for that. If ESPN was willing to share games with Prime, why not with Apple TV?


I wonder if the Apple element is presented to the PAC presidents an exclusive streaming alternative for likely slightly higher $ than an ESPN and Amazon deal. Then they choose - more money vs a little more traditional exposure. I'd think we're close to the end of this if it's an choose a or b scenario we're in
Could be. Lot of speculation going on. If it is ESPN/Apple, unless something has changed, I don't see a lasting deal among the current members. Be curious who leaked Apple's name.
heheh, I'm down for the iPac branding.
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BigDaddy
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4:36p, 2/21/23


“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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sosheezy
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In reply to BigDaddy • 4:40p, 2/21/23
BigDaddy said:


I get the take, but well if the other channels are already taken in the mid day and prime-time slots with the other conference media deals what is the alternative? And probably there will be ESPN After Dark games. And more people will be cutting the cord in the coming years. Many Big 12 games will be on ESPN+ which is streaming anyways. And if Pac 12 teams kick ass wouldn't ESPN have the ability to move up a game to a favorable ABC/ESPN timeslot?
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BearSD
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In reply to wifeisafurd • 4:42p, 2/21/23
wifeisafurd said:
calumnus said:
BigDaddy said:
Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
The article suggests that it would be an all Apple deal with citing any sources or rational for that. If ESPN was willing to share games with Prime, why not with Apple TV?
The source could be anyone. Maybe someone connected to Kliavkoff, to try and convince folks that he might actually deliver a good deal. Or maybe someone from a TV outlet that isn't in the bidding, and thus has no interest in who wins the deal. Or maybe someone from another conference that wants to leak disinformation to destabilize the situation.

Could end up being a deal in which Apple or Amazon acquires all rights and sublicenses one or two football games a week and one or two basketball games a week to ESPN. One advantage of Apple or Amazon is that the conference could recoup some of the money sunk into P12N by selling or leasing the operation to Apple or Amazon. Neither ESPN nor Fox would pay for that, because they have all the equipment and personnel they need for sports broadcasts.
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BearSD
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In reply to sosheezy • 4:46p, 2/21/23
sosheezy said:
BigDaddy said:
I get the take, but well if the other channels are already taken in the mid day and prime-time slots with the other conference media deals what is the alternative? And probably there will be ESPN After Dark games. And more people will be cutting the cord in the coming years. Many Big 12 games will be on ESPN+ which is streaming anyways. And if Pac 12 teams kick ass wouldn't ESPN have the ability to move up a game to a favorable ABC/ESPN timeslot?
About two-thirds of the Big 12's football and basketball games will be on ESPN+ after Texas and Oklahoma leave.
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ColoradoBear
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In reply to sosheezy • 5:13p, 2/21/23
sosheezy said:
BigDaddy said:


I get the take, but well if the other channels are already taken in the mid day and prime-time slots with the other conference media deals what is the alternative? And probably there will be ESPN After Dark games. And more people will be cutting the cord in the coming years. Many Big 12 games will be on ESPN+ which is streaming anyways. And if Pac 12 teams kick ass wouldn't ESPN have the ability to move up a game to a favorable ABC/ESPN timeslot?

ESPN After Dark doesn't even need the best game of the week IMO, people watch anything competitive if it's the only thing on - maybe give apple/streaming first choice for sept/nov, then allow ESPN to flex november games into primetime (or abc east coast prime) as the playoff race builds and games matter more.

Decent start times for streaming games, announced in WELL in advance could bring back fans to the stadiums.

The alternative we see now is actually worse for the non USC or Oregon teams - most games on P12, which absolutely gets fewer viewers than streaming will on Apple or Amazon, late night games on ESPN and FS1 concurrently when people only need one game to be late, and FS1 getting ridiculously low ratings. Or afternoon games on FS1 getting ridiculously low ratings.

I also don't know what the alternative is at this point. Find a linear network that will just put games on at the same timeslots that they already paid for? That's the real issue with waiting so long (maybe it wasnt best to wait for the UC regents) - the good time slots are sold and tech especially streaming is having a downturn in revenue.

If the $$'s are there, primarily streaming with well placed games on ESPN will not be worse than even now, and a lot better than taking an ESPN low-ball offer for most games on ESPN+, which is streaming anyway. It will be worse than what could have been...
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wifeisafurd
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5:37p, 2/21/23
some really interesting comments. The Pac CEO's face some tough decisions.
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philbert
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5:47p, 2/21/23
Nothing earth shattering, but Wilner interviews the WSU president about a media deal.

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2023/02/21/pac-12-media-rights-nobody-spiraling-off-into-places-of-despair-as-process-nears-resolution-wsu-president-says/
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to ColoradoBear • 6:00p, 2/21/23
Isn't one of the issues that fans attending games hate the 7:30pm start times? If ESPN demands night games on Thurs/Fri and Sat nights every week then every team then every team needs to play a minimum of 2 night home games. Even if scheduled in advance that kills season ticket sales for families and others who don't like night games in November. It's just an all around horrible position to be in.
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ColoradoBear
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 6:20p, 2/21/23
CaliforniaEternal said:
Isn't one of the issues that fans attending games hate the 7:30pm start times? If ESPN demands night games on Thurs/Fri and Sat nights every week then every team then every team needs to play a minimum of 2 night home games. Even if scheduled in advance that kills season ticket sales for families and others who don't like night games in November. It's just an all around horrible position to be in.


Well you can't have everything. East coast teams have 2ish 730pm games each year too, and still have fans. Would it be worth it/possible to work with ESPN to get a 6pm PT window, say on ESPN2 instead of ESPN for less money? I don't know.
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tequila4kapp
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7:19p, 2/21/23
I think the night games could be more tolerable if the entire schedule - including game times - was published in advance. Late games with very short notice is a rough double whammy; if you know you are getting 3 or 4 great times it's a lot easier to accept a crap slot.
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calumnus
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 8:34p, 2/21/23
tequila4kapp said:
I think the night games could be more tolerable if the entire schedule - including game times - was published in advance. Late games with very short notice is a rough double whammy; if you know you are getting 3 or 4 great times it's a lot easier to accept a crap slot.


The PAC-12 should eliminate games against FCS opponents and improve the content. Add SDSU and go to a 10 game round-robin schedule. Every week a different team plays an ACC (or SEC) team on a Saturday night at Anaheim Stadium sponsored by Disney and shown on ESPN. Ticket packages include Disney park admission the next day.

Other televised games might be 3:30 starts. Every team would host one Friday night game each year, The Arizona schools and SDSU couid host the late season ones.
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to ColoradoBear • 11:18p, 2/21/23
You're right, the SEC has on average multiple night games per school but very few of them start past 6:30 local time except for Florida and South Carolina in the eastern time zone. The Big Ten has essentially no night games in November which makes things more palatable. The issue is that no network will agree to set Sat. night game schedules in advance of the season so there's not much flexibility on that.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to calumnus • 6:09a, 2/22/23
calumnus said:
tequila4kapp said:
I think the night games could be more tolerable if the entire schedule - including game times - was published in advance. Late games with very short notice is a rough double whammy; if you know you are getting 3 or 4 great times it's a lot easier to accept a crap slot.


The PAC-12 should eliminate games against FCS opponents and improve the content. Add SDSU and go to a 10 game round-robin schedule. Every week a different team plays an ACC (or SEC) team on a Saturday night at Anaheim Stadium sponsored by Disney and shown on ESPN. Ticket packages include Disney park admission the next day.

Other televised games might be 3:30 starts. Every team would host one Friday night game each year, The Arizona schools and SDSU couid host the late season ones.
I go the other way. Schedule more non-con games. Create a conference where our 8th place team is 7-6 and we have a bunch of 10 win teams. Nobody remembers who you played. That leads to extra publicity for your teams and that leads to better recruiting. SEC created the model; it works.
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berserkeley
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In reply to calumnus • 8:17a, 2/22/23
calumnus said:
BigDaddy said:


Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?

Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
Does anyone see this as a positive sign? A quick Google search suggests that Apple TV+ has 20-25 million subscribers and a 6% market share coming in after HBO Max, Disney+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix.

Perhaps Kliavkoff can find a way to get Myspace to stream Pac-12 games ....
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Bobodeluxe
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8:49a, 2/22/23
When your only other choice is the old public access channel, bumping Dianne's Magic Makeup Tutorial, take a bite of the Apple, Adam.
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joe amos yaks
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8:59a, 2/22/23
Go Bears, drub ND annually. Clown stomp tOSu every even numbered year and $uSC in the odd numbered years. It makes for good rivalry.
Go Bears!
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
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tequila4kapp
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9:20a, 2/22/23
One thing that has become front and center for me is that this has gone on WAY too long. This needs to get done yesterday. Good, bad or indifferent this constant drip drip drip about the conference sucking / collapsing is horrible. Get a deal done. Move on to building the next iteration of the conference. Enough already.
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6956bear
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 10:02a, 2/22/23
tequila4kapp said:
One thing that has become front and center for me is that this has gone on WAY too long. This needs to get done yesterday. Good, bad or indifferent this constant drip drip drip about the conference sucking / collapsing is horrible. Get a deal done. Move on to building the next iteration of the conference. Enough already.
JMO but at present they do not have a deal that gets the votes. There are schools that have options. So they need a deal that gets the schools the money needed and with some level of exposure.

Apple TV may provide the money but not the exposure. ESPN/Amazon combo provides a bit better exposure but apparently not the money.

I agree that this has gone on too long and needs resolution. But if they try and take any current deal to the school Presidents it likley will not get the votes. There are apparently some back channel discussions ongoing between schools and other conferences and even between current P12 schools.

Nobody wants to be first to leave but at some point there will be enough frustration to get some school to move. Are there enough votes to add both SDSU and SMU? My sense is not now. Would there be certain conditions applied to a new deal that everyone can agree on? Like unequal shares or not sharing post season monies? Or perhaps even some sort of modified escape clause for early exits?

It seems like some of the schools have given Kliavkoff some sort of "deadline". I have read both mid March and mid April. But Wilners interview with Kirk Schulz (WSU prez and p12 exec committee member) suggest mid March may be the preferred time.

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Bobodeluxe
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 10:02a, 2/22/23
tequila4kapp said:
One thing that has become front and center for me is that this has gone on WAY too long. This needs to get done yesterday. Good, bad or indifferent this constant drip drip drip about the conference sucking / collapsing is horrible. Get a deal done. Move on to building the next iteration of the conference. Enough already.
So, local access channel it is, and tough luck Dianne fans!
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ColoradoBear
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In reply to 6956bear • 10:14a, 2/22/23
6956bear said:
tequila4kapp said:
One thing that has become front and center for me is that this has gone on WAY too long. This needs to get done yesterday. Good, bad or indifferent this constant drip drip drip about the conference sucking / collapsing is horrible. Get a deal done. Move on to building the next iteration of the conference. Enough already.


Nobody wants to be first to leave but at some point there will be enough frustration to get some school to move. Are there enough votes to add both SDSU and SMU? My sense is not now.


If there are enough teams with options to leave, the conference could be disbanded with a 75% vote (I think I read that at some point, if it's 2/3, then I'm wrong here). Adding two more teams would make that vote harder to achieve. Say the 4 corner schools go to the B12 and UW/UO/Cal/Furd arrange a deal with the BT for a reduced share - that's 8/10, so no penalty to leave by disbanding. Not possible with 8/12 vote.

Though if there's no media deal and no grant of rights, is there even a penalty for leaving?
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6956bear
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In reply to ColoradoBear • 11:12a, 2/22/23
ColoradoBear said:
6956bear said:
tequila4kapp said:
One thing that has become front and center for me is that this has gone on WAY too long. This needs to get done yesterday. Good, bad or indifferent this constant drip drip drip about the conference sucking / collapsing is horrible. Get a deal done. Move on to building the next iteration of the conference. Enough already.


Nobody wants to be first to leave but at some point there will be enough frustration to get some school to move. Are there enough votes to add both SDSU and SMU? My sense is not now.


If there are enough teams with options to leave, the conference could be disbanded with a 75% vote (I think I read that at some point, if it's 2/3, then I'm wrong here). Adding two more teams would make that vote harder to achieve. Say the 4 corner schools go to the B12 and UW/UO/Cal/Furd arrange a deal with the BT for a reduced share - that's 8/10, so no penalty to leave by disbanding. Not possible with 8/12 vote.

Though if there's no media deal and no grant of rights, is there even a penalty for leaving?
The P12 GOR expires after 2023. USC and UCLA were ok to leave without penalty. The P12 will exist in 2023, but beyond is subject to finding a TV deal and GOR that the schools will sign. That may or may not occur.

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