CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
Pac-12 commish George Kliavkoff visiiting SMU
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Last: 4 mo ago by calumnus
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
Strykur said:CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
Let's say the P12 comes back offering the schools $5M less per year than the B12. At that point it's a no brainer for the Arizona schools to bust out and switch over. Without the LA schools the Arizonas have no strong incentive to stick around.
Plus if the rumors are true and UW and UO are demanding unequal rev share and they don't back down it will all blow up shortly. No one in their right mind will accept an arrangement that creates a permanent disadvantage.
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).CaliforniaEternal said:Plus if the rumors are true and UW and UO are demanding unequal rev share and they don't back down it will all blow up shortly. No one in their right mind will accept an arrangement that creates a permanent disadvantage.Strykur said:CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
JMO but it is possible that UW and UO have an offer to join the B1G but that number is low (reduced shares) and Kliavkoff told them that he could get them a better deal and so far has not. The B1G is fine staying at 16 but they may prefer to add at least 2 more western programs to help with the USC and UCLA additions if the price is right.Strykur said:Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).CaliforniaEternal said:Plus if the rumors are true and UW and UO are demanding unequal rev share and they don't back down it will all blow up shortly. No one in their right mind will accept an arrangement that creates a permanent disadvantage.Strykur said:CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
They (UO and UW) were not going to blow up the P12 for a similar share as they could get here. But reports are suggesting that Kliavkoff has fallen well short of the promised numbers and with Amazon mentioned as the most likely major distributor of content they do not like the exposure either.
The media deal is a major piece of conference relevance moving forward. It is the single biggest source of revenue. There are other revenue streams like bowl games and NCAA units for basketball but TV is the big one. The P12 so far looks to be coming up well short of the promise from Kliavkoff and now look to add SDSU and SMU just to get a deal close to what the Big 12 just did. And some believe they are looking to add others with UNLV, Fresno St., Boise St. among the rumored teams. With USC and UCLA gone the conference will miss out on bowl monies and NCAA hoops tourney units.
There is nearly 100% agreement among many of the coaches and ADs that college football is headed towards a new alliance. A super league that has fewer members and no longer plays it games under under the NCAA flag. The game has changed. The transfer portal, NIL and the huge disparity among the TV deals is driving change. The CFP has already expanded to 12 with many believing 16 is the ultimate final number.
When the change finally does occur what conference you play in will matter. A lot. The P12 may need to add now to get the number it wants from TV. But the additions do not make the league stronger, just simply add inventory for Amazon.
I think despite the statements from the B1G that they are done expanding for now, I think they may still be open to the right additions at the right price. We know the Big12 wants to expand they have made it clear in public statements. And did so again after Texas and Oklahoma were allowed (for a price) to leave early and join the SEC in 2024.
More moves are still possible.
6956bear said:JMO but it is possible that UW and UO have an offer to join the B1G but that number is low (reduced shares) and Kliavkoff told them that he could get them a better deal and so far has not. The B1G is fine staying at 16 but they may prefer to add at least 2 more western programs to help with the USC and UCLA additions if the price is right.Strykur said:Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).CaliforniaEternal said:Plus if the rumors are true and UW and UO are demanding unequal rev share and they don't back down it will all blow up shortly. No one in their right mind will accept an arrangement that creates a permanent disadvantage.Strykur said:CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
They (UO and UW) were not going to blow up the P12 for a similar share as they could get here. But reports are suggesting that Kliavkoff has fallen well short of the promised numbers and with Amazon mentioned as the most likely major distributor of content they do not like the exposure either.
The media deal is a major piece of conference relevance moving forward. It is the single biggest source of revenue. There are other revenue streams like bowl games and NCAA units for basketball but TV is the big one. The P12 so far looks to be coming up well short of the promise from Kliavkoff and now look to add SDSU and SMU just to get a deal close to what the Big 12 just did. And some believe they are looking to add others with UNLV, Fresno St., Boise St. among the rumored teams. With USC and UCLA gone the conference will miss out on bowl monies and NCAA hoops tourney units.
There is nearly 100% agreement among many of the coaches and ADs that college football is headed towards a new alliance. A super league that has fewer members and no longer plays it games under under the NCAA flag. The game has changed. The transfer portal, NIL and the huge disparity among the TV deals is driving change. The CFP has already expanded to 12 with many believing 16 is the ultimate final number.
When the change finally does occur what conference you play in will matter. A lot. The P12 may need to add now to get the number it wants from TV. But the additions do not make the league stronger, just simply add inventory for Amazon.
I think despite the statements from the B1G that they are done expanding for now, I think they may still be open to the right additions at the right price. We know the Big12 wants to expand they have made it clear in public statements. And did so again after Texas and Oklahoma were allowed (for a price) to leave early and join the SEC in 2024.
More moves are still possible.
I agree, the way I see it the B1G wants more PAC-12 teams but would like to add them at less than full share and is worried about antitrust concerns if it kills the PAC-12 and doesn't take everybody.
Kliavkoff is working to keep a viable PAC-12 (and keep his job).
I think Cal should want to be in a conference that includes (in order) Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Oregon and pays us more than we make now. We know that is not happening in the PAC-12.
That is why we need a smart, savvy AD (unfortunately we have Knowlton) to be working with ALL the above schools (yes, including UCLA and USC) separate from Kliavkoff to make entrance into the B1G as part of a West Coast pod. For legal reasons, the effort needs to come from us, not the B1G. I highly doubt we are doing this. I believe Knowlton really has just thrown in our lot with the PAC-12. Our only chance under this scenario is the other schools pull us in with them.
The other possible scenario I discussed previously that would be brilliant is for Kliavkoff to negotiate a deal with the B1G to form a football-only super conference, merging the PAC-12 with the B1G, with the remaining PAC-10 members splitting the incremental revenue that creates.
The default scenario, remaining in the PAC-10 and getting outflanked by the Big 12, with more defections as we gobble up and become the Mountain West with ever shrinking revenues, is not the fate we should just accept. As I have been saying since he was hired, Knowlton is a horrible fit for Cal, especially at this critical time in the history of college sports, and we will be lucky to have an athletics program when he is done.
I see no possibility for a merger because the Big Ten will never ever ever accept OSU or WSU and will probably never accept ASU either.
berserkeley said:
I see no possibility for a merger because the Big Ten will never ever ever accept OSU or WSU and will probably never accept ASU either.
The idea is the PAC-10 teams do not actually join the B1G, we form a super conference for football only. It is essentially an agreement on a schedule and then a revenue split. All other sports remain in the PAC-12 as a separate conference.
calumnus said:6956bear said:JMO but it is possible that UW and UO have an offer to join the B1G but that number is low (reduced shares) and Kliavkoff told them that he could get them a better deal and so far has not. The B1G is fine staying at 16 but they may prefer to add at least 2 more western programs to help with the USC and UCLA additions if the price is right.Strykur said:Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).CaliforniaEternal said:Plus if the rumors are true and UW and UO are demanding unequal rev share and they don't back down it will all blow up shortly. No one in their right mind will accept an arrangement that creates a permanent disadvantage.Strykur said:CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
They (UO and UW) were not going to blow up the P12 for a similar share as they could get here. But reports are suggesting that Kliavkoff has fallen well short of the promised numbers and with Amazon mentioned as the most likely major distributor of content they do not like the exposure either.
The media deal is a major piece of conference relevance moving forward. It is the single biggest source of revenue. There are other revenue streams like bowl games and NCAA units for basketball but TV is the big one. The P12 so far looks to be coming up well short of the promise from Kliavkoff and now look to add SDSU and SMU just to get a deal close to what the Big 12 just did. And some believe they are looking to add others with UNLV, Fresno St., Boise St. among the rumored teams. With USC and UCLA gone the conference will miss out on bowl monies and NCAA hoops tourney units.
There is nearly 100% agreement among many of the coaches and ADs that college football is headed towards a new alliance. A super league that has fewer members and no longer plays it games under under the NCAA flag. The game has changed. The transfer portal, NIL and the huge disparity among the TV deals is driving change. The CFP has already expanded to 12 with many believing 16 is the ultimate final number.
When the change finally does occur what conference you play in will matter. A lot. The P12 may need to add now to get the number it wants from TV. But the additions do not make the league stronger, just simply add inventory for Amazon.
I think despite the statements from the B1G that they are done expanding for now, I think they may still be open to the right additions at the right price. We know the Big12 wants to expand they have made it clear in public statements. And did so again after Texas and Oklahoma were allowed (for a price) to leave early and join the SEC in 2024.
More moves are still possible.
I agree, the way I see it the B1G wants more PAC-12 teams but would like to add them at less than full share and is worried about antitrust concerns if it kills the PAC-12 and doesn't take everybody.
Kliavkoff is working to keep a viable PAC-12 (and keep his job).
I think Cal should want to be in a conference that includes (in order) Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Oregon and pays us more than we make now. We know that is not happening in the PAC-12.
That is why we need a smart, savvy AD (unfortunately we have Knowlton) to be working with ALL the above schools (yes, including UCLA and USC) separate from Kliavkoff to make entrance into the B1G as part of a West Coast pod. For legal reasons, the effort needs to come from us, not the B1G. I highly doubt we are doing this. I believe Knowlton really has just thrown in our lot with the PAC-12. Our only chance under this scenario is the other schools pull us in with them.
The other possible scenario I discussed previously that would be brilliant is for Kliavkoff to negotiate a deal with the B1G to form a football-only super conference, merging the PAC-12 with the B1G, with the remaining PAC-10 members splitting the incremental revenue that creates.
The default scenario, remaining in the PAC-10 and getting outflanked by the Big 12, with more defections as we gobble up and become the Mountain West with ever shrinking revenues, is not the fate we should just accept. As I have been saying since he was hired, Knowlton is a horrible fit for Cal, especially at this critical time in the history of college sports, and we will be lucky to have an athletics program when he is done.
At this point I no longer view anything as Knowlton's fault. He's an idiot and it is clear as day that he's doing nothing proactive to position our revenue sports in this new world.
Give that, I think the blame and anger needs to now be pointed to Christ as she holds the power to get rid of this moron.
Yes for Cal the best scenario is to join the B1G along with the other schools you mention. A reduced share would be fine as it would still likely be better than whatever Kliavkoff can put together. When you add in the other revenue pieces (bowl money, NCAA hoops tourney units, conference championship game revenues) it likely is much better.calumnus said:6956bear said:JMO but it is possible that UW and UO have an offer to join the B1G but that number is low (reduced shares) and Kliavkoff told them that he could get them a better deal and so far has not. The B1G is fine staying at 16 but they may prefer to add at least 2 more western programs to help with the USC and UCLA additions if the price is right.Strykur said:Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).CaliforniaEternal said:Plus if the rumors are true and UW and UO are demanding unequal rev share and they don't back down it will all blow up shortly. No one in their right mind will accept an arrangement that creates a permanent disadvantage.Strykur said:CaliforniaEternal said:
P12 PR sounds like Tarik Aziz. The conference is going to unravel promptly.
Who goes though, I wasn't thinking Arizona State but their president has been a bit of a renegade apparently.
They (UO and UW) were not going to blow up the P12 for a similar share as they could get here. But reports are suggesting that Kliavkoff has fallen well short of the promised numbers and with Amazon mentioned as the most likely major distributor of content they do not like the exposure either.
The media deal is a major piece of conference relevance moving forward. It is the single biggest source of revenue. There are other revenue streams like bowl games and NCAA units for basketball but TV is the big one. The P12 so far looks to be coming up well short of the promise from Kliavkoff and now look to add SDSU and SMU just to get a deal close to what the Big 12 just did. And some believe they are looking to add others with UNLV, Fresno St., Boise St. among the rumored teams. With USC and UCLA gone the conference will miss out on bowl monies and NCAA hoops tourney units.
There is nearly 100% agreement among many of the coaches and ADs that college football is headed towards a new alliance. A super league that has fewer members and no longer plays it games under under the NCAA flag. The game has changed. The transfer portal, NIL and the huge disparity among the TV deals is driving change. The CFP has already expanded to 12 with many believing 16 is the ultimate final number.
When the change finally does occur what conference you play in will matter. A lot. The P12 may need to add now to get the number it wants from TV. But the additions do not make the league stronger, just simply add inventory for Amazon.
I think despite the statements from the B1G that they are done expanding for now, I think they may still be open to the right additions at the right price. We know the Big12 wants to expand they have made it clear in public statements. And did so again after Texas and Oklahoma were allowed (for a price) to leave early and join the SEC in 2024.
More moves are still possible.
I agree, the way I see it the B1G wants more PAC-12 teams but would like to add them at less than full share and is worried about antitrust concerns if it kills the PAC-12 and doesn't take everybody.
Kliavkoff is working to keep a viable PAC-12 (and keep his job).
I think Cal should want to be in a conference that includes (in order) Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Oregon and pays us more than we make now. We know that is not happening in the PAC-12.
That is why we need a smart, savvy AD (unfortunately we have Knowlton) to be working with ALL the above schools (yes, including UCLA and USC) separate from Kliavkoff to make entrance into the B1G as part of a West Coast pod. For legal reasons, the effort needs to come from us, not the B1G. I highly doubt we are doing this. I believe Knowlton really has just thrown in our lot with the PAC-12. Our only chance under this scenario is the other schools pull us in with them.
The other possible scenario I discussed previously that would be brilliant is for Kliavkoff to negotiate a deal with the B1G to form a football-only super conference, merging the PAC-12 with the B1G, with the remaining PAC-10 members splitting the incremental revenue that creates.
The default scenario, remaining in the PAC-10 and getting outflanked by the Big 12, with more defections as we gobble up and become the Mountain West with ever shrinking revenues, is not the fate we should just accept. As I have been saying since he was hired, Knowlton is a horrible fit for Cal, especially at this critical time in the history of college sports, and we will be lucky to have an athletics program when he is done.
Yes there would be some travel costs and the student athletes would be on the road more. But if there is a real west coast pod the travel would likely be manageable. Not perfect but manageable. The obvious benefit is a better situation for the long term prospects for the entire portfolio of sports at Cal.
The idea that Cal has not or is not contacting the B1G is not accurate IMO. It has gotten harder without a commissioner in the B1G at present but I believe there has been discussions between Cal and B1G in regards to membership. Both for 2024 and for future dates. There are some folks that believe Cal tried to use the Regents meeting regarding UCLA and B1G as leverage to gain an invite.
The B1G really wants Notre Dame above all. Would they go bigger now without Notre Dame and then try and add them in 2030? Is UW, UO, Stanford and Cal really tied together? They may have been early on, but as time has gone by they may be less interested in unity and more interested in self preservation. I think the reality that Kliavkoff has misread the room on media deals and is now scrambling is giving everybody 2nd thoughts regarding conference unity. Despite the unity statement issued just yesterday.
Knowlton is a bad fit for this time. Well anytime really. But Carol Christ is the one that needs to push this effort forward. I think she has had discussions with the B1G. 2 members of the group you suggest Cal should be working with are also members of the P12 Executive Committee. The UW and Stanford Presidents are on that committee. Who are they really working for and with? Neither can be happy with the current circumstances.
Does Christ with her time at Cal winding down really want to push getting Cal an invite to the B1G? I think both the P12 and some member schools have misread whatever leverage they thought they had. Unity may be the best thing for public consumption, but IMO each school now has to do what is in their best interest. UW and UO seem to be angling for more revenue from the membership. Is that because they have a possible invite to the B1G and are using that as leverage for concessions?
I think Cal to the B1G would be ideal. I do not think that can happen without a fracturing of the conference during these latest negotiations. Even then it may be too little too late. The B1G wants and needs a west coast pod. But they do not need Cal. And they can wait if they wish. That is the current stance although I believe it is hardly set in stone.
TV is playing a big role in all of this. Fox is no friend of the P12. ESPN is lowballing the deal. Both IMO would love to see the P12 fail and for members to splinter off and join conferences where they already have deals in place. Amazon is not the distributor that some in the conference want having tier 1 and 2 rights. But they apparently will pay the most, but want new teams and perhaps a longer GOR than some will agree to. It is a mess. The P12 may survive this media cycle, but needs to move quickly. The Big 12 may have designs on SDSU and may even take SMU if the P12 dawdles much longer. There is some resistance among current P12 members to add them. Enough to stop a deal? If there is it will get very interesting and soon.
What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
BigDaddy said:What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
They want easy wins that are in nice road trip locations with the best weather in the country and not 2000 miles away in a cold snow stinky field? There are a lot of not so great programs in the Big Ten that win every few years in cycles but generally prop up the records of OSU, OSU, and Mich. These programs them use the big ten money to buy home games to prop their own record up. The problem with a big consolidation to super conferences is that a lot of schools used to winning 9-10+ games a year will no longer do so as they have to play each other more often. We are absolutely going to see donor fatigue at some of the 'richer' but not top 10 schools, both for this reason and due to NIL.
Sorry to break it to you, but best weather in the country is San Diego State, followed by the two traitors who are abandoning the conference.ColoradoBear said:BigDaddy said:What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
They want easy wins that are in nice road trip locations with the best weather in the country and not 2000 miles away in a cold snow stinky field? There are a lot of not so great programs in the Big Ten that win every few years in cycles but generally prop up the records of OSU, OSU, and Mich. These programs them use the big ten money to buy home games to prop their own record up. The problem with a big consolidation to super conferences is that a lot of schools used to winning 9-10+ games a year will no longer do so as they have to play each other more often. We are absolutely going to see donor fatigue at some of the 'richer' but not top 10 schools, both for this reason and due to NIL.
Fire Knowlton!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
southseasbear said:Sorry to break it to you, but best weather in the country is San Diego State, followed by the two traitors who are abandoning the conference.ColoradoBear said:BigDaddy said:What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
They want easy wins that are in nice road trip locations with the best weather in the country and not 2000 miles away in a cold snow stinky field? There are a lot of not so great programs in the Big Ten that win every few years in cycles but generally prop up the records of OSU, OSU, and Mich. These programs them use the big ten money to buy home games to prop their own record up. The problem with a big consolidation to super conferences is that a lot of schools used to winning 9-10+ games a year will no longer do so as they have to play each other more often. We are absolutely going to see donor fatigue at some of the 'richer' but not top 10 schools, both for this reason and due to NIL.
For football? Most of my UCLA friends complain about the heat in the Rose Bowl in September and October and love day games in Berkeley for that reason.
However, the real issue is night games on the West Coast for that last TV window. The Arizona's are best for that, but then yeah, LA and San Diego, while a bit damp at night (like Berkeley) are next. And late in the season Northern California and the Pacific Northwest can be cold and rainy, which might be worse than snow.
I agree. But at this point, how is she going to eject Knowlton? This man just got a contract extension to 2029. We're paying him a base salary, a performance bonus/salary, and a retention bonus if we keep him until April of this year. How in the world do we get out of this without it costing us the farm?
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy.
What's really unfortunate is that the P12 cannot seem to get its act together. We are a conference that's membership includes some of the best universities if not the best in the nation. And we can't get it right with how we manage an athletic conference.
I don't know if the answer is the B1G. We are so far off being successful in the two sports that matter - football and basketball - it would really be something if they take us.
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy.
What's really unfortunate is that the P12 cannot seem to get its act together. We are a conference that's membership includes some of the best universities if not the best in the nation. And we can't get it right with how we manage an athletic conference.
I don't know if the answer is the B1G. We are so far off being successful in the two sports that matter - football and basketball - it would really be something if they take us.
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
I am not so sure that the Big Ten wants more of the Pac.calumnus said:
I agree, the way I see it the B1G wants more PAC-12 teams but would like to add them at less than full share and is worried about antitrust concerns if it kills the PAC-12 and doesn't take everybody.
Kliavkoff is working to keep a viable PAC-12 (and keep his job).
The top reason they would want more is to lessen the travel that current Big Ten teams have to make to the west coast, and the way to do that is to have enough members in the west that USC and UCLA can play most of their conference games among teams in the west and the other Big Ten teams have to make very few trips out west.
But -- adding two more Pac schools isn't enough to accomplish that goal. It would take a minimum of four more. And even if those other new members get less than a full share, adding four or more would mean the current Big Ten schools get a slightly smaller revenue share than they would get if the conference stays at 16 members. On top of that, the east-west travel burden is far more of a burden for USC and UCLA than it will ever be for the eastern Big Ten members, so that makes two Big Ten schools that really care about reducing travel versus 14 Big Ten schools that only care about it a little.
As for Kliavkoff, especially after that silly press release, I'm starting to think that he is a Vegas empty suit who is good at convincing people he can get things done but not so good at actually getting things done. I would be happy to be proven wrong about that.
philly1121 said:
I agree. But at this point, how is she going to eject Knowlton? This man just got a contract extension to 2029. We're paying him a base salary, a performance bonus/salary, and a retention bonus if we keep him until April of this year. How in the world do we get out of this without it costing us the farm?
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy. ...
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
Dereliction of duty re: swim coach?
movielover said:philly1121 said:
I agree. But at this point, how is she going to eject Knowlton? This man just got a contract extension to 2029. We're paying him a base salary, a performance bonus/salary, and a retention bonus if we keep him until April of this year. How in the world do we get out of this without it costing us the farm?
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy. ...
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
Dereliction of duty re: swim coach?
Exactly - was going to respond with this. If Carol isn't complicit in wanting to dismantle our revenue sports she needs to find a reason to get this guy off the books. He gave her a silver platter for doing so by ignoring the pleas of his most important stakeholders - the student-athletes themselves. If she doesn't fire him for this offense, well then I think she is worse of a human being than I thought.
Econ141 said:movielover said:philly1121 said:
I agree. But at this point, how is she going to eject Knowlton? This man just got a contract extension to 2029. We're paying him a base salary, a performance bonus/salary, and a retention bonus if we keep him until April of this year. How in the world do we get out of this without it costing us the farm?
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy. ...
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
Dereliction of duty re: swim coach?
Exactly - was going to respond with this. If Carol isn't complicit in wanting to dismantle our revenue sports she needs to find a reason to get this guy off the books. He gave her a silver platter for doing so by ignoring the pleas of his most important stakeholders - the student-athletes themselves. If she doesn't fire him for this offense, well then I think she is worse of a human being than I thought.
Agreed. However, talk is that she wants to retire early, so she might kick the can down the road and leave that decision to her successor by having another year long investigation, this time into Knowlton and the other administrators. By the time Knowlton is finally dumped it could be too late; perennially losing revenue sports teams in a diminished PAC-8 with drastically reduced media deals, recruiting in the dumps, donations down, empty stands and the athletic department deeply in the red with the next chancellor not so willing to subsidize losses and pressure to either dump Olympic sports or drop football to comply with Title IX.
BearSD said:I am not so sure that the Big Ten wants more of the Pac.calumnus said:
I agree, the way I see it the B1G wants more PAC-12 teams but would like to add them at less than full share and is worried about antitrust concerns if it kills the PAC-12 and doesn't take everybody.
Kliavkoff is working to keep a viable PAC-12 (and keep his job).
The top reason they would want more is to lessen the travel that current Big Ten teams have to make to the west coast, and the way to do that is to have enough members in the west that USC and UCLA can play most of their conference games among teams in the west and the other Big Ten teams have to make very few trips out west.
But -- adding two more Pac schools isn't enough to accomplish that goal. It would take a minimum of four more. And even if those other new members get less than a full share, adding four or more would mean the current Big Ten schools get a slightly smaller revenue share than they would get if the conference stays at 16 members. On top of that, the east-west travel burden is far more of a burden for USC and UCLA than it will ever be for the eastern Big Ten members, so that makes two Big Ten schools that really care about reducing travel versus 14 Big Ten schools that only care about it a little.
As for Kliavkoff, especially after that silly press release, I'm starting to think that he is a Vegas empty suit who is good at convincing people he can get things done but not so good at actually getting things done. I would be happy to be proven wrong about that.
Again, the remaining PAC-10 teams have no leverage. They do not get into the B1G with full shares. The B1G has no appetite for that and doesn't need to.
I do believe there is an lesser amount than full share (now looking like far less) that would make sense for the B1G and still be more than Kliavkoff gets for the PAC-10. However, I don't think that effort is going to come from the new B1G commissioner.
The effort is going to need to come from the schools that want into the B1G (and the LA schools) going to the B1G hat in hand.
Alternatively, I think there could be a deal Kliavkoff could negotiate with the B1G (and their media partners) on behalf of all the PAC-10 to create a super conference for football, filling up the late window, but the revenue to the PAC-10 teams would be less than the B1G teams (buy also more than the PAC-10 could get on its own).
The bold part is a gigantic obstacle for anyone hoping to get into the Big Ten: They don't have a commissioner, they are not likely to have one for at least a few more months, and they are not going to consider expansion before they have a new commissioner on the job.calumnus said:Again, the remaining PAC-10 teams have no leverage. They do not get into the B1G with full shares. The B1G has no appetite for that and doesn't need to.BearSD said:I am not so sure that the Big Ten wants more of the Pac.calumnus said:
I agree, the way I see it the B1G wants more PAC-12 teams but would like to add them at less than full share and is worried about antitrust concerns if it kills the PAC-12 and doesn't take everybody.
Kliavkoff is working to keep a viable PAC-12 (and keep his job).
The top reason they would want more is to lessen the travel that current Big Ten teams have to make to the west coast, and the way to do that is to have enough members in the west that USC and UCLA can play most of their conference games among teams in the west and the other Big Ten teams have to make very few trips out west.
But -- adding two more Pac schools isn't enough to accomplish that goal. It would take a minimum of four more. And even if those other new members get less than a full share, adding four or more would mean the current Big Ten schools get a slightly smaller revenue share than they would get if the conference stays at 16 members. On top of that, the east-west travel burden is far more of a burden for USC and UCLA than it will ever be for the eastern Big Ten members, so that makes two Big Ten schools that really care about reducing travel versus 14 Big Ten schools that only care about it a little.
As for Kliavkoff, especially after that silly press release, I'm starting to think that he is a Vegas empty suit who is good at convincing people he can get things done but not so good at actually getting things done. I would be happy to be proven wrong about that.
I do believe there is an lesser amount than full share (now looking like far less) that would make sense for the B1G and still be more than Kliavkoff gets for the PAC-10. However, I don't think that effort is going to come from the new B1G commissioner.
The effort is going to need to come from the schools that want into the B1G (and the LA schools) going to the B1G hat in hand.
The deadline for the Pac is much sooner than that. If there isn't a new TV deal imminent or in place within the next month or so, then a couple of Pac members will run off to the Big 12 and lock themselves in there long-term, even if they get less than a full share there, and the rest will be left to backfill the Pac with a half-dozen Mountain West teams.
Econ141 said:movielover said:philly1121 said:
I agree. But at this point, how is she going to eject Knowlton? This man just got a contract extension to 2029. We're paying him a base salary, a performance bonus/salary, and a retention bonus if we keep him until April of this year. How in the world do we get out of this without it costing us the farm?
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy. ...
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
Dereliction of duty re: swim coach?
Exactly - was going to respond with this. If Carol isn't complicit in wanting to dismantle our revenue sports she needs to find a reason to get this guy off the books. He gave her a silver platter for doing so by ignoring the pleas of his most important stakeholders - the student-athletes themselves. If she doesn't fire him for this offense, well then I think she is worse of a human being than I thought.
What if she also has exposure with respect to the swimming debacle?
PaulCali said:Econ141 said:movielover said:philly1121 said:
I agree. But at this point, how is she going to eject Knowlton? This man just got a contract extension to 2029. We're paying him a base salary, a performance bonus/salary, and a retention bonus if we keep him until April of this year. How in the world do we get out of this without it costing us the farm?
I also agree with other posters about Kliavkoff overhyping or overselling the P12 and promising its membership a dollar amount for a media deal that seems to not be taking off. The courtship of SDSU and/or SMU should have been taking place 5 months ago. Probably along with UNLV, Boise Fresno State and maybe another Texas school. What Kliavkoff has to do now is double the work. He had to keep Oregon and UW happy. Now, with the B12 now looking to expand - he has to keep the 4 corner schools happy. ...
Ultimately, the media rights deal will tell the tale. If its less than what the Big 12 is getting, the P12 is likely done in 5 years.
Dereliction of duty re: swim coach?
Exactly - was going to respond with this. If Carol isn't complicit in wanting to dismantle our revenue sports she needs to find a reason to get this guy off the books. He gave her a silver platter for doing so by ignoring the pleas of his most important stakeholders - the student-athletes themselves. If she doesn't fire him for this offense, well then I think she is worse of a human being than I thought.
What if she also has exposure with respect to the swimming debacle?
Frankly I think she should be fired for this too but not sure who has that authority. Either she didn't know about it and should have or she's trying to protect guilty parties. Either way, it is not good at all.
With all the current focus on DEI, this debacle shows a lack of proper protocols, controls, and training that just shouldn't exist in 2023.
I almost got heat stroke in the Rose Bowl one year. Awful.calumnus said:southseasbear said:Sorry to break it to you, but best weather in the country is San Diego State, followed by the two traitors who are abandoning the conference.ColoradoBear said:BigDaddy said:What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
They want easy wins that are in nice road trip locations with the best weather in the country and not 2000 miles away in a cold snow stinky field? There are a lot of not so great programs in the Big Ten that win every few years in cycles but generally prop up the records of OSU, OSU, and Mich. These programs them use the big ten money to buy home games to prop their own record up. The problem with a big consolidation to super conferences is that a lot of schools used to winning 9-10+ games a year will no longer do so as they have to play each other more often. We are absolutely going to see donor fatigue at some of the 'richer' but not top 10 schools, both for this reason and due to NIL.
For football? Most of my UCLA friends complain about the heat in the Rose Bowl in September and October and love day games in Berkeley for that reason.
However, the real issue is night games on the West Coast for that last TV window. The Arizona's are best for that, but then yeah, LA and San Diego, while a bit damp at night (like Berkeley) are next. And late in the season Northern California and the Pacific Northwest can be cold and rainy, which might be worse than snow.
Also the tires on my rental car were slashed at the Coliseum. So bummer.
I thought you meant the weather/climate for the rest of the weekend, not just the football game. San Diego may have the most perfect weather in the state if the not the country: not too hot in the summer and not too cold in the winter. It used to be a great retirement destination, until the prices skyrocketed.calumnus said:southseasbear said:Sorry to break it to you, but best weather in the country is San Diego State, followed by the two traitors who are abandoning the conference.ColoradoBear said:BigDaddy said:What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
They want easy wins that are in nice road trip locations with the best weather in the country and not 2000 miles away in a cold snow stinky field? There are a lot of not so great programs in the Big Ten that win every few years in cycles but generally prop up the records of OSU, OSU, and Mich. These programs them use the big ten money to buy home games to prop their own record up. The problem with a big consolidation to super conferences is that a lot of schools used to winning 9-10+ games a year will no longer do so as they have to play each other more often. We are absolutely going to see donor fatigue at some of the 'richer' but not top 10 schools, both for this reason and due to NIL.
For football? Most of my UCLA friends complain about the heat in the Rose Bowl in September and October and love day games in Berkeley for that reason.
However, the real issue is night games on the West Coast for that last TV window. The Arizona's are best for that, but then yeah, LA and San Diego, while a bit damp at night (like Berkeley) are next. And late in the season Northern California and the Pacific Northwest can be cold and rainy, which might be worse than snow.
Fire Knowlton!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
southseasbear said:I thought you meant the weather/climate for the rest of the weekend, not just the football game. San Diego may have the most perfect weather in the state if the not the country: not too hot in the summer and not too cold in the winter. It used to be a great retirement destination, until the prices skyrocketed.calumnus said:southseasbear said:Sorry to break it to you, but best weather in the country is San Diego State, followed by the two traitors who are abandoning the conference.ColoradoBear said:BigDaddy said:What makes you think that Oregon and Washington are thinking about Cal and Stanford in any of this? If they get a B1G invite they'll take it and won't be throwing anyone else a lifeline. It's every man for himself right now.Strykur said:
Does it really make sense though for Oregon and Washington to blow this all up right now? They could consider a Big-12 offer however if they really want the Big Ten they will probably scoop them up but only if they take a lowball deal (along with us and Furd probably).
They want easy wins that are in nice road trip locations with the best weather in the country and not 2000 miles away in a cold snow stinky field? There are a lot of not so great programs in the Big Ten that win every few years in cycles but generally prop up the records of OSU, OSU, and Mich. These programs them use the big ten money to buy home games to prop their own record up. The problem with a big consolidation to super conferences is that a lot of schools used to winning 9-10+ games a year will no longer do so as they have to play each other more often. We are absolutely going to see donor fatigue at some of the 'richer' but not top 10 schools, both for this reason and due to NIL.
For football? Most of my UCLA friends complain about the heat in the Rose Bowl in September and October and love day games in Berkeley for that reason.
However, the real issue is night games on the West Coast for that last TV window. The Arizona's are best for that, but then yeah, LA and San Diego, while a bit damp at night (like Berkeley) are next. And late in the season Northern California and the Pacific Northwest can be cold and rainy, which might be worse than snow.
Yes, furthest south on the West Coast without going into Mexico and so best weather in the contiguous United Stares. Hawaii being my ideal.
But all of the West Coast is great compared to the Midwest, which was the poster's point.
We are the biggest bunch a negative Nancy's ever.
The B12s media deal pays members 31.6m annually. In other words, our worst case number is their ceiling. But they are killing it because their only 2 name schools are paying to get away from them even faster. Uh huh.
Their conference if filled with a bunch of nothing media markets, a few good markets that are owned by SEC schools and an absolutely terrible geographic distribution. Seriously, consider the teams and visualize a map: Baylor, Houston, TCU, Tx Tech, OK State, BYU, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF, Kansas, K State, Iowa State. OK State is probably their 3rd or 4th most prominent program. I just drove past the off ramp to Stillwater. Think Pullman, WA. About 1/2 their schools profile similarly.
If that collection of crappy sw/Midwest areas is worth 31.6m then SF, Phoenix, Provo, Seattle, Portland and presumably San Diego has to be north of 40m, if not pushing 50m. Aside from the value of the markets themselves we also y valuable time slots. We will be fine.
The B12s media deal pays members 31.6m annually. In other words, our worst case number is their ceiling. But they are killing it because their only 2 name schools are paying to get away from them even faster. Uh huh.
Their conference if filled with a bunch of nothing media markets, a few good markets that are owned by SEC schools and an absolutely terrible geographic distribution. Seriously, consider the teams and visualize a map: Baylor, Houston, TCU, Tx Tech, OK State, BYU, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF, Kansas, K State, Iowa State. OK State is probably their 3rd or 4th most prominent program. I just drove past the off ramp to Stillwater. Think Pullman, WA. About 1/2 their schools profile similarly.
If that collection of crappy sw/Midwest areas is worth 31.6m then SF, Phoenix, Provo, Seattle, Portland and presumably San Diego has to be north of 40m, if not pushing 50m. Aside from the value of the markets themselves we also y valuable time slots. We will be fine.
CBS & Turner are currently no longer involved in Pac-12’s media rights negotiations, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 15, 2023
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
tequila4kapp said:
We are the biggest bunch a negative Nancy's ever.
The B12s media deal pays members 31.6m annually. In other words, our worst case number is their ceiling. But they are killing it because their only 2 name schools are paying to get away from them even faster. Uh huh.
Their conference if filled with a bunch of nothing media markets, a few good markets that are owned by SEC schools and an absolutely terrible geographic distribution. Seriously, consider the teams and visualize a map: Baylor, Houston, TCU, Tx Tech, OK State, BYU, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF, Kansas, K State, Iowa State. OK State is probably their 3rd or 4th most prominent program. I just drove past the off ramp to Stillwater. Think Pullman, WA. About 1/2 their schools profile similarly.
If that collection of crappy sw/Midwest areas is worth 31.6m then SF, Phoenix, Provo, Seattle, Portland and presumably San Diego has to be north of 40m, if not pushing 50m. Aside from the value of the markets themselves we also y valuable time slots. We will be fine.
Agree 100% we SHOULD be worth MUCH more. The problem is that it appears Fox and ESPN are not willing to pay us what we are worth. They are each tied up with the Big 10 and SEC and may have other motives.
tequila4kapp said:
If that collection of crappy sw/Midwest areas is worth 31.6m then SF, Phoenix, Provo, Seattle, Portland and presumably San Diego has to be north of 40m, if not pushing 50m. Aside from the value of the markets themselves we also y valuable time slots. We will be fine.
Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
Might be something, but keep in mind that McMurphy is a graduate of a Big 12 school (Oklahoma State) and is motivated to spread negative intel about the Pac-12, whether or not it's significant or accurate.BigDaddy said:CBS & Turner are currently no longer involved in Pac-12’s media rights negotiations, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 15, 2023
He might have better intel on Big12 stuff, but he's been very straightforward on his reporting re: Pac 12. When the circumstances look bleak or limited, they just are, it isn't spin. He was the first to break the idea that Big 10 was possibly considering Cal as part of bigger westward expansion back when that was being discussed several months ago, when many online wouldn't even mention Cal.BearSD said:Might be something, but keep in mind that McMurphy is a graduate of a Big 12 school (Oklahoma State) and is motivated to spread negative intel about the Pac-12, whether or not it's significant or accurate.BigDaddy said:CBS & Turner are currently no longer involved in Pac-12’s media rights negotiations, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 15, 2023
LMFAO!!!BearSD said:Might be something, but keep in mind that McMurphy is a graduate of a Big 12 school (Oklahoma State) and is motivated to spread negative intel about the Pac-12, whether or not it's significant or accurate.BigDaddy said:CBS & Turner are currently no longer involved in Pac-12’s media rights negotiations, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 15, 2023
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
(1) Suggesting that the Big Ten was considering further expansion is arguably meant to destabilize the Pac-12, even if he's suggesting Cal was considered.sosheezy said:He might have better intel on Big12 stuff, but he's been very straightforward on his reporting re: Pac 12. When the circumstances look bleak or limited, they just are, it isn't spin. He was the first to break the idea that Big 10 was possibly considering Cal as part of bigger westward expansion back when that was being discussed several months ago, when many online wouldn't even mention Cal.BearSD said:Might be something, but keep in mind that McMurphy is a graduate of a Big 12 school (Oklahoma State) and is motivated to spread negative intel about the Pac-12, whether or not it's significant or accurate.BigDaddy said:CBS & Turner are currently no longer involved in Pac-12’s media rights negotiations, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 15, 2023
(2) It seems like the Big Ten is, in fact, not considering further expansion at this time.
(3) So... his sources aren't worth much, or his sources were just speculating instead of providing accurate information, or he is "wishcasting", i.e. writing things that might lead to what he wants to happen.
I would suggest (as it was reported I think by Dennis Dodd and Pete Prisco too eventually) that the reporting merely reflected the scuttlebutt and discussion at the time, which I believe was late summer/early fall, when the previous Big Ten Commissioner seemed to be talking more aggressively about more expansion. It is true that now, it does not appear the Big Ten is considering it - that doesn't mean that some sources/decision makers weren't discussing it previously, and also clearly the Big Ten was divided on the matter, with the no votes overriding. But clearly some sources were advocating for it or at least consideration of it. The idea of these national reporters as agents of the Big 12, I just don't see it. The Pac 12 keeps stepping on a rake, that's the story, until we get a deal.BearSD said:(1) Suggesting that the Big Ten was considering further expansion is arguably meant to destabilize the Pac-12, even if he's suggesting Cal was considered.sosheezy said:He might have better intel on Big12 stuff, but he's been very straightforward on his reporting re: Pac 12. When the circumstances look bleak or limited, they just are, it isn't spin. He was the first to break the idea that Big 10 was possibly considering Cal as part of bigger westward expansion back when that was being discussed several months ago, when many online wouldn't even mention Cal.BearSD said:Might be something, but keep in mind that McMurphy is a graduate of a Big 12 school (Oklahoma State) and is motivated to spread negative intel about the Pac-12, whether or not it's significant or accurate.BigDaddy said:CBS & Turner are currently no longer involved in Pac-12’s media rights negotiations, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 15, 2023
(2) It seems like the Big Ten is, in fact, not considering further expansion at this time.
(3) So... his sources aren't worth much, or his sources were just speculating instead of providing accurate information, or he is "wishcasting", i.e. writing things that might lead to what he wants to happen.
If that is the case, then this whole argument about media markets isn't really that plausible is it? In other words, if we can't get $30 million annually per school or more, then our media markets don't really matter that much, since ours are arguably better.
It begs the question as to what Kliavkoff is really asking for? $35-40 million per school?
It begs the question as to what Kliavkoff is really asking for? $35-40 million per school?
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