calumnus said:

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sycasey said:

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At least Wilcox has shown the ability to have winning seasons. I'm not sure what Knowlton ever showed.

---

I absolutely do not want to defend Knowlton but consider:

Wilcox has only 1 winning season vs. FBS opponents. 2 if you count FCS opponents. No season with a winning record in conference. Cal's national computer rankings under his watch are worse than Holmoe's. Worst in our history actually. And he is on contract for nearly $5 million a year guaranteed through year 11.

And yet, Mark Fox was worse.

In fact, that is one of the major reasons Knowlton has been such a disaster.

When will the next $2 million investigation be completed?

---

Wilcox has been disappointing since the 2019 season, for sure. But Knowlton has been worse and more damaging.

calumnus said:

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golden sloth said:

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I'm also just happy that the national narrative seems to be changing regarding Cal and Stanford. For a week or so everyone was saying we had no value, which was always ridiculous. Cal is not a blue blood, in fact it's not even 2nd tier power. But it's also not a fresno st or new mexico, and I'm happy people are recognizing that again.

---

But we easily have the potential to be a Tier 2 power with occasional great seasons.

---

Honestly, Cal should be one of those. The fact that we aren't shows how little effort the administration has put in. Hopefully the new realities will force it.

Sactowndog said:

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golden sloth said:

---

I'm also just happy that the national narrative seems to be changing regarding Cal and Stanford. For a week or so everyone was saying we had no value, which was always ridiculous. Cal is not a blue blood, in fact it's not even 2nd tier power. But it's also not a fresno st or new mexico, and I'm happy people are recognizing that again.

---

Fresno has better ratings than you, better attendance than you, and takes transfers from Cal. I think SJSU is the more accurate compare.

---

On attendance and ratings you are simply wrong. Check the 5 year averages, unless you enjoy indulging in small sample sizes, in which case I'd recommend learning proper research techniques.

https://www.d1ticker.com/2022-fbs-attendance-trends/

As for players and coaches, yes, take pride in the fact you hire coaches we fire and recruit players that 'want playing time', and use those as reasons why you are a similar program.

Sactowndog said:

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golden sloth said:

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I'm also just happy that the national narrative seems to be changing regarding Cal and Stanford. For a week or so everyone was saying we had no value, which was always ridiculous. Cal is not a blue blood, in fact it's not even 2nd tier power. But it's also not a fresno st or new mexico, and I'm happy people are recognizing that again.

---

Fresno has better ratings than you, better attendance than you, and takes transfers from Cal. I think SJSU is the more accurate compare.

---

Dude, relax. Not sure what is in that toxic Valley dust blowing around, but this is getting old.

Enjoy MWC supremacy. Well, after Boise and SDSU.

NWBear90 said:

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Sactowndog said:

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golden sloth said:

---

I'm also just happy that the national narrative seems to be changing regarding Cal and Stanford. For a week or so everyone was saying we had no value, which was always ridiculous. Cal is not a blue blood, in fact it's not even 2nd tier power. But it's also not a fresno st or new mexico, and I'm happy people are recognizing that again.

---

Fresno has better ratings than you, better attendance than you, and takes transfers from Cal. I think SJSU is the more accurate compare.

---

Dude, relax. Not sure what is in that toxic Valley dust blowing around, but this is getting old.

Enjoy MWC supremacy. Well, after Boise and SDSU.

---

Hey, I came from "The Toxic Valley." Repetitive trolling notwithstanding, Fresno State does have the football culture we, Cal, need to get back to and I have no shame in coming from The Central Valley. And I would love to have Tedford back in a second.

PtownBear1 said:

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Cal88 said:

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Wow really puts in perspective what a major outlier Cal would be in the B12

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What do you mean? Cal Bears and Baylor Bears have two of the worst season records in the history of college basketball

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

At least Wilcox has shown the ability to have winning seasons. I'm not sure what Knowlton ever showed.

---

I absolutely do not want to defend Knowlton but consider:

Wilcox has only 1 winning season vs. FBS opponents. 2 if you count FCS opponents. No season with a winning record in conference. Cal's national computer rankings under his watch are worse than Holmoe's. Worst in our history actually. And he is on contract for nearly $5 million a year guaranteed through year 11.

And yet, Mark Fox was worse.

In fact, that is one of the major reasons Knowlton has been such a disaster.

When will the next $2 million investigation be completed?

---

Wilcox has been disappointing since the 2019 season, for sure. But Knowlton has been worse and more damaging.

---

For sure, and to be clear, I am counting the Wilcox bad and his extensions as part of the Knowlton bad. 2019 was such a "good" season we fired OC Baldwin afterward. It is all on Knowlton at this point (and Carol Christ for hiring him and giving him that ridiculous extension).

Hopefully, Wilcox turns it around this season.

---

Honestly, it's the Dykes and Wilcox experiences that have convinced me that it's not about a single coach, it's that the administration doesn't provide support and that will always kneecap the program. Took a while with Tedford, but it did eventually (poor APR monitoring). We heard Dykes' complaints about it, and saw the poor handling of COVID policies come to a head under Wilcox. That's an administrative problem and one that is constantly repeated.

Again, hopefully this near-disaster situation in realignment has changed attitudes.

DoubtfulBear said:

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PtownBear1 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

---

Wow really puts in perspective what a major outlier Cal would be in the B12

---

What do you mean? Cal Bears and Baylor Bears have two of the worst season records in the history of college basketball

---

Mad Dog is a whole new game.

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

At least Wilcox has shown the ability to have winning seasons. I'm not sure what Knowlton ever showed.

---

I absolutely do not want to defend Knowlton but consider:

Wilcox has only 1 winning season vs. FBS opponents. 2 if you count FCS opponents. No season with a winning record in conference. Cal's national computer rankings under his watch are worse than Holmoe's. Worst in our history actually. And he is on contract for nearly $5 million a year guaranteed through year 11.

And yet, Mark Fox was worse.

In fact, that is one of the major reasons Knowlton has been such a disaster.

When will the next $2 million investigation be completed?

---

Wilcox has been disappointing since the 2019 season, for sure. But Knowlton has been worse and more damaging.

---

For sure, and to be clear, I am counting the Wilcox bad and his extensions as part of the Knowlton bad. 2019 was such a "good" season we fired OC Baldwin afterward. It is all on Knowlton at this point (and Carol Christ for hiring him and giving him that ridiculous extension).

Hopefully, Wilcox turns it around this season.

---

Honestly, it's the Dykes and Wilcox experiences that have convinced me that it's not about a single coach, it's that the administration doesn't provide support and that will always kneecap the program. Took a while with Tedford, but it did eventually (poor APR monitoring). We heard Dykes' complaints about it, and saw the poor handling of COVID policies come to a head under Wilcox. That's an administrative problem and one that is constantly repeated.

Again, hopefully this near-disaster situation in realignment has changed attitudes.

---

^^^^THIS is 90% of the problem.
A NCAA Coach of the Year could not solve this problem.
We need a cultural pivot.

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

At least Wilcox has shown the ability to have winning seasons. I'm not sure what Knowlton ever showed.

---

I absolutely do not want to defend Knowlton but consider:

Wilcox has only 1 winning season vs. FBS opponents. 2 if you count FCS opponents. No season with a winning record in conference. Cal's national computer rankings under his watch are worse than Holmoe's. Worst in our history actually. And he is on contract for nearly $5 million a year guaranteed through year 11.

And yet, Mark Fox was worse.

In fact, that is one of the major reasons Knowlton has been such a disaster.

When will the next $2 million investigation be completed?

---

Wilcox has been disappointing since the 2019 season, for sure. But Knowlton has been worse and more damaging.

---

For sure, and to be clear, I am counting the Wilcox bad and his extensions as part of the Knowlton bad. 2019 was such a "good" season we fired OC Baldwin afterward. It is all on Knowlton at this point (and Carol Christ for hiring him and giving him that ridiculous extension).

Hopefully, Wilcox turns it around this season.

---

Honestly, it's the Dykes and Wilcox experiences that have convinced me that it's not about a single coach, it's that the administration doesn't provide support and that will always kneecap the program. Took a while with Tedford, but it did eventually (poor APR monitoring). We heard Dykes' complaints about it, and saw the poor handling of COVID policies come to a head under Wilcox. That's an administrative problem and one that is constantly repeated.

Again, hopefully this near-disaster situation in realignment has changed attitudes.

---

^^^^THIS is 90% of the problem.
A NCAA coach of the year could not solve this problem.
We need a cultural pivot.

---

Doubt that will happen if we get int ACC. Christ and Knowlton will pat themselves on the back on finding academic peers that underinvest in football and go back to building their wraparound porch

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

At least Wilcox has shown the ability to have winning seasons. I'm not sure what Knowlton ever showed.

---

I absolutely do not want to defend Knowlton but consider:

Wilcox has only 1 winning season vs. FBS opponents. 2 if you count FCS opponents. No season with a winning record in conference. Cal's national computer rankings under his watch are worse than Holmoe's. Worst in our history actually. And he is on contract for nearly $5 million a year guaranteed through year 11.

And yet, Mark Fox was worse.

In fact, that is one of the major reasons Knowlton has been such a disaster.

When will the next $2 million investigation be completed?

---

Wilcox has been disappointing since the 2019 season, for sure. But Knowlton has been worse and more damaging.

---

For sure, and to be clear, I am counting the Wilcox bad and his extensions as part of the Knowlton bad. 2019 was such a "good" season we fired OC Baldwin afterward. It is all on Knowlton at this point (and Carol Christ for hiring him and giving him that ridiculous extension).

Hopefully, Wilcox turns it around this season.

---

Honestly, it's the Dykes and Wilcox experiences that have convinced me that it's not about a single coach, it's that the administration doesn't provide support and that will always kneecap the program. Took a while with Tedford, but it did eventually (poor APR monitoring). We heard Dykes' complaints about it, and saw the poor handling of COVID policies come to a head under Wilcox. That's an administrative problem and one that is constantly repeated.

Again, hopefully this near-disaster situation in realignment has changed attitudes.

---

^^^^THIS is 90% of the problem.
A NCAA coach of the year could not solve this problem.
We need a cultural pivot.

---

Knowlton and the administration (Carol Christ) that thought he should even be hired and worse, extended 8 years. It is our system. Christ came from Smith. She had zero background in running a P5 program and then hired someone who also had zero background in running a p5 program. Everything that has happened since she was hired reflects that. That Cal is in this situation now reflects that.

Unless done on purpose, or they just don't give a s@#$ that sports make money. I dunno, I think it is the latter, which to me is amazing to me in today's world. But, then my wife is an attorney and some of her coworkers are in their 70's and at least one of them refuses to use a computer, and writes everything in pencil & paper. Go figure.

Sactowndog said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

I'm also just happy that the national narrative seems to be changing regarding Cal and Stanford. For a week or so everyone was saying we had no value, which was always ridiculous. Cal is not a blue blood, in fact it's not even 2nd tier power. But it's also not a fresno st or new mexico, and I'm happy people are recognizing that again.

---

Fresno has better ratings than you, better attendance than you, and takes transfers from Cal. I think SJSU is the more accurate compare.

---

Of course they take transfers from Cal. They take transfers from anywhere. They are the village bicycle

sonofabear51 said:

---

Unless done on purpose, or they just don't give a s@#$ that sports make money. I dunno, I think it is the latter, which to me is amazing to me in today's world. But, then my wife is an attorney and some of her coworkers are in their 70's and at least one of them refuses to use a computer, and writes everything in pencil & paper. Go figure.

---

I think Carol Christ took for granted that everything in the P12 would always be fine, even after the initial defections. In light of the USC/UCLA B1G move that occurred just a few months prior, her quotes in the Seth Davis piece from November were borderline preposterous and belied a complete and total lack of awareness over the importance of the revenue sports…whether she actually felt that way or not, she clearly did not seem to grasp the urgency.

Knowlton is just a complete and total boob who was NEVER prepared for the challenges that a Power 5 athletic department would pose, especially one as unique as Cal.

If we do in fact get a bid to the ACC/B1G/B12, I pray for unique, dynamic, forward thinking leadership, and quickly.

Totally agree. Why jk was hired in the first place is and has totally beyond comprehension. Hopefully now this is the wakeup call so very desperately needed for Cal and Cal athletics. There is enormous potential here for Cal, but they need to put better folks in the critical positions to make this happen. No more knowlton, thank goodness fox is gone, and Christ is on her way out. Shocky may be right in recommending McGraw. Guess we will see soon enough.

Go Bears!!

sonofabear51 said:

---

Totally agree. Why jk was hired in the first place is and has totally beyond comprehension. Hopefully now this is the wakeup call so very desperately needed for Cal and Cal athletics. There is enormous potential here for Cal, but they need to put better folks in the critical positions to make this happen. No more knowlton, thank goodness fox is gone, and Christ is on her way out. Shocky may be right in recommending McGraw. Guess we will see soon enough.

Go Bears!!

---

I would love Cal to grab a young leader like (spits) Martin Jarmond at fUCLA. Someone with experience as an Asst AD/etc. in a large, major athletic program and that has some vision.

I didn't always love Sandy Barbour, but at least I had confidence she knew what she was doing.

Bowlesman80 said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

At least Wilcox has shown the ability to have winning seasons. I'm not sure what Knowlton ever showed.

---

I absolutely do not want to defend Knowlton but consider:

Wilcox has only 1 winning season vs. FBS opponents. 2 if you count FCS opponents. No season with a winning record in conference. Cal's national computer rankings under his watch are worse than Holmoe's. Worst in our history actually. And he is on contract for nearly $5 million a year guaranteed through year 11.

And yet, Mark Fox was worse.

In fact, that is one of the major reasons Knowlton has been such a disaster.

When will the next $2 million investigation be completed?

---

Wilcox has been disappointing since the 2019 season, for sure. But Knowlton has been worse and more damaging.

---

For sure, and to be clear, I am counting the Wilcox bad and his extensions as part of the Knowlton bad. 2019 was such a "good" season we fired OC Baldwin afterward. It is all on Knowlton at this point (and Carol Christ for hiring him and giving him that ridiculous extension).

Hopefully, Wilcox turns it around this season.

---

Honestly, it's the Dykes and Wilcox experiences that have convinced me that it's not about a single coach, it's that the administration doesn't provide support and that will always kneecap the program. Took a while with Tedford, but it did eventually (poor APR monitoring). We heard Dykes' complaints about it, and saw the poor handling of COVID policies come to a head under Wilcox. That's an administrative problem and one that is constantly repeated.

Again, hopefully this near-disaster situation in realignment has changed attitudes.

---

^^^^THIS is 90% of the problem.
A NCAA coach of the year could not solve this problem.
We need a cultural pivot.

---

Doubt that will happen if we get int ACC. Christ and Knowlton will pat themselves on the back on finding academic peers that underinvest in football and go back to building their wraparound porch

---

Welp, yes, I think you're right, but only if we keep letting mediocrity be "okay." We need to keep the pressure up and demand excellence in all endeavors. Win or die.

---

I don't know if it will happen, but here's the case:

There's probably going to be a revenue shortfall to handle, wherever we go. That means donors will have to step up. The donors need to tie strings to that support, demanding additional administrative support for football (and to a lesser extent basketball). It has to come from that outside influence.

The performance of the NIL collective does lend credence to the idea that donors are getting it now. Maybe this can extend further.

The inertia is strong, but there's an opportunity here.

Cabin14 said:

---

sonofabear51 said:

---

Unless done on purpose, or they just don't give a s@#$ that sports make money. I dunno, I think it is the latter, which to me is amazing to me in today's world. But, then my wife is an attorney and some of her coworkers are in their 70's and at least one of them refuses to use a computer, and writes everything in pencil & paper. Go figure.

---

I think Carol Christ took for granted that everything in the P12 would always be fine, even after the initial defections. In light of the USC/UCLA B1G move that occurred just a few months prior, her quotes in the Seth Davis piece from November were borderline preposterous and belied a complete and total lack of awareness over the importance of the revenue sports…whether she actually felt that way or not, she clearly did seem to grasp the urgency.

Knowlton is just a complete and total boob who was NEVER prepared for the challenges that a Power 5 athletic department would pose, especially one as unique as Cal.

If we do in fact get a bid to the ACC/B1G/B12, I pray for unique, dynamic, forward thinking leadership, and quickly.

---

I kind of look up to Knowlton. I wish I could get a job I was utterly unqualified for, completely fail for multiple years, yet pull in a 7-figure salary.

I wasn't thrilled with Sandy either, but it looks like in hindsight she did ok, and I think she is still at Penn State and seems to have done well there. But yes, we need younger folks to lead the way, and I think there are some good ones out there.

Cabin14 said:

---

sonofabear51 said:

---

Totally agree. Why jk was hired in the first place is and has totally beyond comprehension. Hopefully now this is the wakeup call so very desperately needed for Cal and Cal athletics. There is enormous potential here for Cal, but they need to put better folks in the critical positions to make this happen. No more knowlton, thank goodness fox is gone, and Christ is on her way out. Shocky may be right in recommending McGraw. Guess we will see soon enough.

Go Bears!!

---

I would love Cal to grab a young leader like (spits) Martin Jarmond at fUCLA. Someone with experience as an Asst AD/etc. in a large, major athletic program and that has some vision.

I didn't always love Sandy Barbour, but at least I had confidence she knew what she was doing.

---

Agreed. Patrick Chun at WSU coukd be a good hire. Shocky thinks McGraw would be good, at least he's a Cal guy, though I'd think if he is a great leader he'd have filled the vacuum during Knowlton's long absences working from home in Colorado Springs.

Barbour retired from penn state, and was most recently hired as a consultant at, of all places, U$C who looks like they made a home run hire in Cohen.

Knowlton is so out of his league it's embarrassing.

Knowlton is so out of his league it's embarrassing.
Oh hell yes.

Did not know about Sandy.

$c still sucks, but yes they are doing things right. Cal can do the same.

sonofabear51 said:

---

Knowlton is so out of his league it's embarrassing.
Oh hell yes.

Did not know about Sandy.

$c still sucks, but yes they are doing things right. Cal can do the same.

---

Cal should do the same, but Cal being Cal, they probably won't.

sonofabear51 said:

---

I wasn't thrilled with Sandy either, but it looks like in hindsight she did ok, and I think she is still at Penn State and seems to have done well there. But yes, we need younger folks to lead the way, and I think there are some good ones out there.

---

Maybe her biggest mistake was agreeing to divert money from football to support other sports, rather than just cutting the sports that needed to be cut. But the move to cut sports was so politically unpopular (including among donors) at the time that maybe it didn't matter what she thought.

By the standards of Cal ADs she was basically Abraham Lincoln or FDR or something.

91Cal said:

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6956bear said:

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berserkeley said:

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Maybe they're trying to find a way that would keep FSU and Clemson from trying to leave before 2030.

But ...

It's been, what, 8 or 9 days since we flipped two votes from "no" to "maybe"? And they still haven't cast a vote. And it's been how many days now that they've allegedly been debating how to split the money?

It sounds like we don't have 12 "yes" votes. It sounds like the ACC has to find a way to split the money that gets UNC and NCSU to vote yes without losing any of the current support and they haven't found a way to do that yet. Or that they have to find a way to split the money that makes all 15 happy because they only reason to vote to expand is to keep FSU and Clemson in the fold.

---

Seems clear they do not have 12 votes. I think that there may be other no votes. Miami could be a no. I just do not think you will get 12 votes if that requires giving extra money to Clemson and FSU upfront.

There is a reason that ESPN has supposedly begun to lobby Yormark to let Calford into the Big 12. What would be interesting is if Fox would kick in to make Calford equal to the 4 corner schools. My guess is no.

---

There have been many, many reports from "disparate" reporters that Calford are going to be admitted stating that the details of payment/distribution are being hammered out.

This will be the first conference setting up a performance fund/unbalanced payments so am guessing that these related nuances are the long pole in the tent. How much of the "donated" amount is set aside for the performance v. how much is distributed to the existing members. How much are the new teams eligible to receive. How much distributed to the existing members for travel costs and for what sports. How much additional $$ is there with the addition of the NorCal and Dallas markets.

The have the votes, but are looking to get to unanimous.

As many have written, does Fox and the big 18, but more importantly, Fox come back with a last minute offer for Calford similar to their last second offer for the Duskies.

---

FSU and Clemson want a larger piece of the tier 1 media rights. Like about $10M-$15M more each. They also are not for voting rights for Calford. Both schools but particularly FSU believe they are worth the extra guaranteed media money. They are not opposed in principle to performance related payments but they believe this new money from admitting Calford and SMU needs to go primarily to them.

This is a USC sort of situation. They believe they carry the conference's water and want to be compensated for that. They are making threats they will leave. The GOR is through 2036 but they likely leave before. Others will want to join them. But at present none have the appeal to warrant full shares from the B1G or SEC. They would in time but likely not day 1.

Sure there are other concerns like travel offsets. But tier 1 media money and voting rights are at the heart of this. If Calford comes with full voting rights and the revenue remains equally distributed I will be very surprised. The ACC lesser lights like (BC, Syracuse, GaTech) want Calford and SMU in for conference stability. The big boy programs like Clemson and FSU are fine with instability as they believe that favors them being able to dissolve the conference and exit without penalty or a much reduced negotiated penalty.

They may find the votes and I hope they do. But there is a reason this has not been finalized. There is not a lot of opposition over the schools. Just how and to whom the new money goes and can they vote on day 1. If they get an invite it likely is sold as unanimous but I would be very dubious of that statement.

Are the non blueblood programs like BC or Wake willing to give FSU the money in exchange for Calford full voting rights? And would good programs but non bluebloods like UNC or UVa vote to go along? I agree with the premise that how everything gets distributed is the holdup, but do not believe they have 12 votes.

Meanwhile there is some steam that the Big 12 may soon (already?) get involved. ESPN is trying to help Calford find a home.

calumnus said:

---

Cabin14 said:

---

sonofabear51 said:

---

Totally agree. Why jk was hired in the first place is and has totally beyond comprehension. Hopefully now this is the wakeup call so very desperately needed for Cal and Cal athletics. There is enormous potential here for Cal, but they need to put better folks in the critical positions to make this happen. No more knowlton, thank goodness fox is gone, and Christ is on her way out. Shocky may be right in recommending McGraw. Guess we will see soon enough.

Go Bears!!

---

I would love Cal to grab a young leader like (spits) Martin Jarmond at fUCLA. Someone with experience as an Asst AD/etc. in a large, major athletic program and that has some vision.

I didn't always love Sandy Barbour, but at least I had confidence she knew what she was doing.

---

Agreed. Patrick Chun at WSU coukd be a good hire. Shocky thinks McGraw would be good, at least he's a Cal guy, though I'd think if he is a great leader he'd have filled the vacuum during Knowlton's long absences working from home in Colorado Springs.

---

Shocky is delusional in his campaign for Andrew McGraw.
McGraw doesn't even know who Shocky is, and McGraw is not the slight bit interested in the AD position. And no, he can't be talked into it.

nikeykid said:

---

Despite various reports to the contrary, Big 12 has not had conversations w/any of the Pac-4 schools & has no intention in engaging w/those schools, multiple Big 12 sources told @ActionNetworkHQ

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) August 27, 2023

Pendulum swings again

---

That is because ESPN is doing the talking.