The Economy

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oski003
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DiabloWags said:

BearlySane88 said:


"All told, 2025 represented Ford's third-worst performance ever, and accounts for a third full-year loss in the last six years."

So who was president for their two worst performances ever? Maybe it's not the president and they are just struggling as a company over the last six years?


How do you think the best selling pick-up truck in AMERICAN HISTORY (for 47 straight years) is doing after Trump imposed a 50% tariff on aluminum?

Hint: The Ford F-150 is 43% aluminum



Not well?
BearlySane88
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DiabloWags said:

BearlySane88 said:


"All told, 2025 represented Ford's third-worst performance ever, and accounts for a third full-year loss in the last six years."

So who was president for their two worst performances ever? Maybe it's not the president and they are just struggling as a company over the last six years?


How do you think the best selling pick-up truck in AMERICAN HISTORY (for 47 straight years) is doing after Trump imposed a 50% tariff on aluminum?

Hint: 700 lbs of ALUMINUM goes into making a Ford F-150.

Are you claiming that Trump's tariffs haven't hurt Ford?




I didn't imply anything. I asked questions that you didn't answer and made assumptions instead.
DiabloWags
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tequila4kapp said:

Great data. Thanks.


Here's some more data that is most interesting given how HEALTHCARE workers outstrip all other sectors.







"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Cal88
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Aunburdened
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Cal88 said:

Bachelors in English and a Masters in Journalism I would guess. Same background as with most science journos.

B.A. in English literature.

Not that I would consider economists to be an authority on anything. Larry Summers comes from a family of economists, has a bunch of degrees and impressive positions on his resume, and he's still doesn't know a thing about how the economy works.
DiabloWags
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Aunburdened said:

B.A. in English literature.

Not that I would consider economists to be an authority on anything. Larry Summers comes from a family of economists, has a bunch of degrees and impressive positions on his resume, and he's still doesn't know a thing about how the economy works.


What "qualifications" do you have in the field of economics give you credibility to claim that Larry Summers
"doesn't know a thing about how the economy works"?

As I recall, Larry Summers was literally the ONLY economist warning the White House and the rest of Washington that inflation was a real danger, while everyone else in the Biden Administration were celebrating the remarkable economic recovery from the pandemic in the spring of 2021.

Too bad Biden never listened.
Inflation was clearly the #1 issue for voters that helped put DONALD TRUMP back into the White House.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Aunburdened
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DiabloWags said:

Aunburdened said:

B.A. in English literature.

Not that I would consider economists to be an authority on anything. Larry Summers comes from a family of economists, has a bunch of degrees and impressive positions on his resume, and he's still doesn't know a thing about how the economy works.


What "qualifications" do you have in the field of economics gives you credibility to claim that Larry Summers "doesn't know a thing about how the economy works"?

https://mmt101.substack.com/p/crowding-out-the-accounting-error

Quote:

In Warren Mosler's 'Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds' he recounts conversations he had with former Assistant Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, Vice President Al Gore and former U.S. Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin that demonstrated that they had little understanding of how government deficits or surpluses work.

That is, they did not understand the effects of deficits or surpluses on the health of the economy and the people who live and work in it.

For example, here is Assistant U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers replying to Mosler's question on why a deficit is a problem:

"It takes away savings that could be used for investment."

And here is Robert Rubin, former U.S. Treasury Secretary on his understanding of the impact of running a surplus on the non-government sector:

"When the government runs a surplus, it buys Treasury securities in the market, and that adds to savings and investment."

Both of these statements are 100% wrong; in fact, they are the opposite of reality.

However, their misunderstanding is no surprise; it is a reflection of the mainstream view, as taught within many macroeconomics textbooks.

Economics is one of the biggest bull**** disciplines in the world. They can't predict anything and their prescriptions to remedy problems are often backwards.
DiabloWags
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Aunburdened said:

Economics is one of the biggest bull**** disciplines in the world. They can't predict anything and their prescriptions to remedy problems are often backwards.


Thanks for your reply that answers my question about your "qualifications"

Too bad Biden didn't listen to his warning in the Spring of 2021 about inflation coming back.
It was the #1 issue that helped put Trump back in office.

Let me know if you can find anyone besides Larry Summers who made this "inflation" call back in 2021.




"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
cal83dls79
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Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

BearlySane88 said:



She's not an economist

shes an author selling books and looking thru her own quirky lense that back her theories. Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.

Well, that's why you make a lot of dumb posts on this forum and I don't because I can tell the difference.

Journalists that write about economics aren't economists.
I wasn't the one who posted the original cnn video of "economist". Sane88 did and was super excited because it was reported in CNN. I merely posted her CV and noted that she passes for an economist to some.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
Aunburdened
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DiabloWags said:

Aunburdened said:

Economics is one of the biggest bull**** disciplines in the world. They can't predict anything and their prescriptions to remedy problems are often backwards.


Thanks for your reply that answers my question about your "qualifications"

Too bad Biden didn't listen to his warning in the Spring of 2021 about inflation coming back.
It was the #1 issue that helped put Trump back in office.

Let me know if you can find anyone besides Larry Summers who made this "inflation" call back in 2021.




Larry Summers was predicting recessions and inflation for over a decade. A broken clock is eventually right for a second.
Aunburdened
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cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

BearlySane88 said:



She's not an economist

shes an author selling books and looking thru her own quirky lense that back her theories. Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.

Well, that's why you make a lot of dumb posts on this forum and I don't because I can tell the difference.

Journalists that write about economics aren't economists.

I wasn't the one who posted the original cnn video of "economist". Sane88 did and was super excited because it was reported in CNN. I merely posted her CV and noted that she passes for an economist to some.

"Sounds like an economist to me."
cal83dls79
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Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

BearlySane88 said:



She's not an economist

shes an author selling books and looking thru her own quirky lense that back her theories. Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.

Well, that's why you make a lot of dumb posts on this forum and I don't because I can tell the difference.

Journalists that write about economics aren't economists.

I wasn't the one who posted the original cnn video of "economist". Sane88 did and was super excited because it was reported in CNN. I merely posted her CV and noted that she passes for an economist to some.

"Sounds like an economist to me."
you missed the sarcasm, not sure how.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
BearlySane88
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cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

BearlySane88 said:



She's not an economist

shes an author selling books and looking thru her own quirky lense that back her theories. Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.

Well, that's why you make a lot of dumb posts on this forum and I don't because I can tell the difference.

Journalists that write about economics aren't economists.
I wasn't the one who posted the original cnn video of "economist". Sane88 did and was super excited because it was reported in CNN. I merely posted her CV and noted that she passes for an economist to some.


We have very different definitions of super excited
DiabloWags
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dls83cal79grad said:

Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.



Yeah, your sarcasm was pretty obvi.
Not sure how anyone could miss that.
And of course, Yogi conveniently left out the rest of your sentence above highlighted in black.

Pretty disingenuous.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
cal83dls79
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BearlySane88 said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

BearlySane88 said:



She's not an economist

shes an author selling books and looking thru her own quirky lense that back her theories. Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.

Well, that's why you make a lot of dumb posts on this forum and I don't because I can tell the difference.

Journalists that write about economics aren't economists.
I wasn't the one who posted the original cnn video of "economist". Sane88 did and was super excited because it was reported in CNN. I merely posted her CV and noted that she passes for an economist to some.


We have very different definitions of super excited
well you did get a little perturbed when you only got partial credit from 09
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
BearlySane88
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cal83dls79 said:

BearlySane88 said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

cal83dls79 said:

Aunburdened said:

BearlySane88 said:



She's not an economist

shes an author selling books and looking thru her own quirky lense that back her theories. Sounds like an economist to me, or what passes for one.

Well, that's why you make a lot of dumb posts on this forum and I don't because I can tell the difference.

Journalists that write about economics aren't economists.
I wasn't the one who posted the original cnn video of "economist". Sane88 did and was super excited because it was reported in CNN. I merely posted her CV and noted that she passes for an economist to some.


We have very different definitions of super excited
well you did get a little perturbed when you only got partial credit from 09


I have no idea what you're talking about
SBGold
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Flagged
DiabloWags
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The January CPI was reported to have risen 2.4% annually, which was less than the 2.5% expected.
+0.3% on a monthly basis.

This figure brought the CPI back to May 2025 levels - - - a month after Trump first announced tariffs.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
tequila4kapp
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The consumer price index climbed 0.2 percent in January compared with the final month of last year. Compared with the start of 2025, prices are up 2.4 percent.

The annual rate of inflation was three percent when Trump took office.

Economists had forecast a rise of 0.3 percent for the month and 2.5 percent over the past year.

Core consumer prices, a measure that excludes food and energy, rose 0.3 percent in January. Over the past 12 months, core prices are up 2.5 percent. Both figures were in line with expectations. That is the lowest annual core inflation reading since March 2021 ***

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2026/02/13/inflation-cools-more-than-expected-2/
tequila4kapp
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There was an interesting interview with the Fed Chair recently where he conceded the economy was strong, consumer spending was strong and consumers continue to answer surveys with low levels of confidence/happiness.

I guess I never paid much attention to this stuff before say, Biden. But going back to maybe 2021 there has been a repeating theme of a disconnect between people's perception of the economy and what the official numbers tell us.
DiabloWags
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Yes, that is true.

There has been a disconnect between what is called "hard" data and "soft" data.

Soft data are typically your consumer sentiment surveys, the purchasing managers index (PMI) which surveys manufacturing and service sector executives and their outlooks, etc.

Hard data mostly comes from measurements of business activity.
Jobs data, factory production levels, inflation reports, etc.

At some point, economists would look for the "gap" to close and the soft data to be reflected in the hard data.


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

There was an interesting interview with the Fed Chair recently where he conceded the economy was strong, consumer spending was strong and consumers continue to answer surveys with low levels of confidence/happiness.

I guess I never paid much attention to this stuff before say, Biden. But going back to maybe 2021 there has been a repeating theme of a disconnect between what people's perception of the economy and what the official numbers tell us.

There's gotta be something they're not measuring via the traditional stats. Before you could point to inflation (people see prices rising and say the economy is bad) but that seems to have leveled off and the effect persists.
BearlySane88
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Aunburdened
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tequila4kapp said:

There was an interesting interview with the Fed Chair recently where he conceded the economy was strong, consumer spending was strong and consumers continue to answer surveys with low levels of confidence/happiness.

I guess I never paid much attention to this stuff before say, Biden. But going back to maybe 2021 there has been a repeating theme of a disconnect between what people's perception of the economy and what the official numbers tell us.

It's not very difficult to understand.

The Fed sees the economy as how industry and investors see the economy. People see the economy as their own personal economy. How many good jobs are out there? Are goods and services affordable? Can I afford shelter?

All of those things have gotten steadily worse over the last decade and a half and when the inflation rate goes down, prices don't go down with it. That just means they're not increasing as fast as before. And with AI coming to take more jobs away, things are going to get even worse.
tequila4kapp
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I find it to be a very interesting - fascinating, even - dynamic.

Trump 1 was an economic home run, Biden was an economic struggle and Trump 2 is just very economically confusing for the T4K household.
DiabloWags
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It's VERY DYNAMIC.

When people go to buy groceries and items like fast food that they repeatedly buy, they see that prices have never leveled off and continue to go up even though the CPI only shows 2.4% YoY growth in January.

This is what sours consumer sentiment.
Grocery prices are insane!

This is as opposed to durable goods orders (like a washing machine, water heater, etc.) or automobile that gets purchased once every 10 years.

It will be interesting to see if the new Fed Chairman Kevin Warsh throws the Fed's economic forecasting and "dot" plots out the window as Larry Summers has advised. Warsh has been highly critical of Jerome Powell's reliance on the "dot" plots and other forecasting models. Warsh is more of a hard-money guy and will focus more on the money supply.

One thing I know for certain, Warsh will be shrinking the Fed's balance sheet.

That means more supply hits the market and puts pressure on rates to increase.
That having been said, he may use issuance of shorter term instruments like T-Bills to do it.

The latter was proposed by Janet Yellen during the Biden Administration.
It was criticized by Trump cheerleaders like Treasury Secretary Bessent, but that's exactly what Bessent has been doing now.




"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
PAC-10-BEAR
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2.4% CPI
172k new private sector jobs (Jan)
4.3% unemployment rate

All beating expectations
BearlySane88
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PAC-10-BEAR said:

2.4% CPI
172k new private sector jobs (Jan)
4.3% unemployment rate

All beating expectations


Did those Nobel winning economists not really know what they were talking about?
DiabloWags
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BearlySane88 said:

PAC-10-BEAR said:

2.4% CPI
172k new private sector jobs (Jan)
4.3% unemployment rate

All beating expectations


Did those Nobel winning economists not really know what they were talking about?


Who would that be specifically?
And what was their forecast that was wrong?

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
BearlySane88
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DiabloWags said:

BearlySane88 said:

PAC-10-BEAR said:

2.4% CPI
172k new private sector jobs (Jan)
4.3% unemployment rate

All beating expectations


Did those Nobel winning economists not really know what they were talking about?


Who would that be specifically?
And what was their forecast that was wrong?




sycasey
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BearlySane88 said:

DiabloWags said:

BearlySane88 said:

PAC-10-BEAR said:

2.4% CPI
172k new private sector jobs (Jan)
4.3% unemployment rate

All beating expectations


Did those Nobel winning economists not really know what they were talking about?


Who would that be specifically?
And what was their forecast that was wrong?






I will concede that the effects of the tariffs have not been as bad as predicted, but I must also point out here that these economists were making these predictions when Trump was promising much bigger tariffs than are actually in effect right now.
DiabloWags
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Trump clearly pulled his TACO.
And yet his supporters turn a BLIND EYE to that fact.

Shocker.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
BearlySane88
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DiabloWags said:

Trump clearly pulled his TACO.
And yet his supporters turn a BLIND EYE to that fact.

Shocker.




It's impossible for you to give him any credit
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

BearlySane88 said:

DiabloWags said:

BearlySane88 said:

PAC-10-BEAR said:

2.4% CPI
172k new private sector jobs (Jan)
4.3% unemployment rate

All beating expectations


Did those Nobel winning economists not really know what they were talking about?


Who would that be specifically?
And what was their forecast that was wrong?






I will concede that the effects of the tariffs have not been as bad as predicted, but I must also point out here that these economists were making these predictions when Trump was promising much bigger tariffs than are actually in effect right now.
And the Fed interest rate cuts. (Even smaller) tarrifs + lower Fed rates should not = lower inflation, etc. It doesn't make much sense
DiabloWags
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BearlySane88 said:

DiabloWags said:

Trump clearly pulled his TACO.
And yet his supporters turn a BLIND EYE to that fact.

Shocker.




It's impossible for you to give him any credit


No.

I'm just aware of what has FACTUALLY transpired and am much more astute when it comes to the history of Trump's tariffs, which are a TAX.

If trade wars are so easy to "win" as Trump has proclaimed, then why hasn't China bought a single soybean from the U.S. Farmer in 6 consecutive months?

If Trump's tariffs are so good for the the U.S. auto manufacturers, then why did FORD take a hit of Billions from his tariffs?

These are basic questions.
But you repeatedly fail to address them.

Instead of making this "personal" and focusing on me and deflecting, why not look at his tariff strategy realisticaly as a TAX, rather than deflecting with "the Nobel prize economists were wrong about inflation" routine?

Has a 50% tariff on copper created any new U.S. copper mines? How about aluminum?

A Ford F-150 requires 700 lbs of aluminum to build. How did that 50% Trump tariff on aluminum help Ford?

Can you answer that?




"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
 
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