I worked with a consultant who was supposedly transgender (no one asks the question). He was a big, middle-aged guy, but he wore men's clothes with no makeup or anything to indicate he was trying to appear like a woman, except for maybe a couple of painted fingernails. He was quite professional and knew his stuff. But he had a woman's name and the people around him referred to him as "she/her". I called him by his woman's name because that was his name but I naturally referred to him as he/him in business conversations with others because I subconsciously saw him as a man. I couldn't gaslight myself.

DiabloWags said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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lol sure but you made the argument to show that republicans can't read while actually showing how dumb California and the dems really are.

That backfired buddy. Try again next time

---

I'm not surprised that you completely missed the point of my post.
You must be one of those 54% of Americans that have reading comprehension stuck at the 6th GRADE LEVEL.

Microsoft Word - BBFoundation_GainsFromEradicatingIlliteracy_9_8.docx

---

Good pivot buddy. You tried to show that conservatives don't read yet the largest democratic state is the biggest offender. It backfired, it's okay to mess up sometimes

sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

---

Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

---

I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

---

It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

---

Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

---

Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

---

Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

---

Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

---

Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

---

Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

---

We will never agree about this.

---

And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

---

Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

---

So is being intersexed.
Like Castor Semenya, assigned female at birth but has the condition 5a-Reductase 2 deficiency (5-ARD).

Normal male internal structures that are not fully masculinized during development of the reproductive system in utero, due to low levels of the hormone dihydrotestosterone (DHT). As a result, the external genitalia may appear ambiguous or female at birth.

Semenya has said that she was born with a vagina and internal undescended tests, but that she has no uterus or fallopian tubes and does not menstruate. Her internal tests produce natural testosterone levels in the typical male range. She does not label herself as "intersexed".

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

---

Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

---

I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

---

It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

---

Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

---

Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

---

Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

---

Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

---

Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

---

Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

---

We will never agree about this.

---

And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

---

Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

---

Okay but a trans person is someone who was born as one gender and wants to live and identify as the other. These people exist and are not lying about it.

Bearly you are getting cooked

DiabloWags said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

---

So is being intersexed.
Like Castor Semenya, assigned female at birth but has the condition 5a-Reductase 2 deficiency (5-ARD).

Normal male internal structures that are not fully masculinized during development of the reproductive system in utero, due to low levels of the hormone dihydrotestosterone (DHT). As a result, the external genitalia may appear ambiguous or female at birth.

Semenya has said that she was born with a vagina and internal undescended tests, but that she has no uterus or fallopian tubes and does not menstruate. Her internal tests produce natural testosterone levels in the typical male range. She does not label herself as "intersexed".

---

You use intersex to prove what point? That's not the same as transgender and no where have I mentioned intersex people don't exist.

Was that supposed to be another gotcha moment? It failed again. Man you're shooting and missing a lot today but it's okay, keep shooting and maybe you'll make one sometime

going4roses said:

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Bearly you are getting cooked

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Lolol blindly follow your leader

sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

---

I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

---

It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

---

Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

---

Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

---

Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

---

Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

---

Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

---

Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

---

We will never agree about this.

---

And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

---

Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

---

Okay but a trans person is someone who was born as one gender and wants to live and identify as the other. These people exist and are not lying about it.

---

Okay and they can do what they want. Nowhere have I said a man can't dress femininely if they choose or vice versa. Just don't force me to buy into it.

When we get into the subject of children transitioning, that's where I actually have an issue. We are asking children who can't vote, drive, rent a car, have their own insurance, etc. to identify who they are and make a life altering change. Makes no sense to me. You want to transition medically, cool do it once you're an adult and have a fully formed brain to make those choices

NJ doctor resigns after nurse said he 'cheered' Charlie Kirk's death

After investigation by Hospital the Doctor resigned and the Nurse who reported his comments was reinstated to her job.

The tyrant dies and his rule is over.

The martyr dies and his rule begins.

- Soren Kierkegaard

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

---

Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

---

I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

---

It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

---

Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

---

Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

---

Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

---

Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

---

Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

---

Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

---

We will never agree about this.

---

And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

---

Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

---

Okay but a trans person is someone who was born as one gender and wants to live and identify as the other. These people exist and are not lying about it.

---

Okay and they can do what they want. Nowhere have I said a man can't dress femininely if they choose or vice versa. Just don't force me to buy into it.

---

Again, not sure what "force" means here. I won't personally hold you at gunpoint and make you use the right names or pronouns. I will personally think you're an a**hole if you don't do it after specifically being asked by the other person, though. And at some point if you start pushing legislation that literally forces trans people to no longer live as they please I will definitely object to that.

I also see here almost exactly, to the letter, the same arguments previously used against the idea of gays getting married. Marriage is between a man and a woman! It's just fact! Don't force me to buy into your agenda! Except the ask was just for gay people to be able to marry and live their own lives with their own families. Yes, I know that trans people are different from homosexuals. It's always something different. To me the fundamental principle of letting adults live their own lives and offering the same common courtesy to all remains the same.

Medical transition for kids is a separate issue and pretty complicated, so I will leave that aside for now.

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

I worked with a consultant who was supposedly transgender (no one asks the question). He was a big, middle-aged guy, but he wore men's clothes with no makeup or anything to indicate he was trying to appear like a woman, except for maybe a couple of painted fingernails. He was quite professional and knew his stuff. But he had a woman's name and the people around him referred to him as "she/her". I called him by his woman's name because that was his name but I naturally referred to him as he/him in business conversations with others because I subconsciously saw him as a man. I couldn't gaslight myself.

---

I knew someone in college who started to socially transition male-to-female. Still looked like a man but wanted you to use the new female name and she/her type pronouns. This was like 25 years ago, so way before trans people became a big political football nationwide. This was someone just trying to live their life as they wanted.

Once I learned the new name and the new request, I just started doing it. Might have made a mistake once in a while, but for the most part it was easy and no skin off my nose. This person is fully transitioned and definitely looks like a woman now, by the way. Seems pretty happy, if her Facebook profile is any indication.

More random trans stuff:

I am happy to try and use preferred pronouns when I refer to others. I may slip up sometimes, but I will sincerely try.

I draw the line when I am asked to declare my pronouns. I'm a guy, duh. Just seems waaaay too "PC" for everybody to have to do that. Is it supposed to make any trans people feel more accepted? I dunno, it just seems ridiculous. Thoughts?

going4roses said:

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Bearly you are getting cooked

---

Bwahahahahaha!

True.

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

---

I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

---

It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

---

Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

---

Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

---

Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

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Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

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Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

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Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

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We will never agree about this.

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And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

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Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

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You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

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Okay but a trans person is someone who was born as one gender and wants to live and identify as the other. These people exist and are not lying about it.

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Okay and they can do what they want. Nowhere have I said a man can't dress femininely if they choose or vice versa. Just don't force me to buy into it.

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Again, not sure what "force" means here. I won't personally hold you at gunpoint and make you use the right names or pronouns. I will personally think you're an a**hole if you don't do it after specifically being asked by the other person, though. And at some point if you start pushing legislation that literally forces trans people to no longer live as they please I will definitely object to that.

I also see here almost exactly, to the letter, the same arguments previously used against the idea of gays getting married. Marriage is between a man and a woman! It's just fact! Don't force me to buy into your agenda! Except the ask was just for gay people to be able to marry and live their own lives with their own families. Yes, I know that trans people are different from homosexuals. It's always something different. To me the fundamental principle of letting adults live their own lives and offering the same common courtesy to all remains the same.

Medical transition for kids is a separate issue and pretty complicated, so I will leave that aside for now.

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Cool, if my choices lead me to be socially ostracized that's on me and you can think I'm an *******. Some would argue that the ******* is actually the person "forcing" another person to see them for what they aren't.

Love who you love. Marry who you wanna marry. Idgaf.

Yes, let adults live their own lives, you live as a woman and I'll live choosing to know you're still a man. I won't be hateful towards you but you'll still call me a bigot for calling a man a man.

Be a whatever you want but don't get mad at others when they don't wanna recognize your delusions.

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Well, that about wraps up this conversation.

DiabloWags said:

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going4roses said:

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Bearly you are getting cooked

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Bwahahahahaha!

True.

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Bless your heart DiddyWagon

sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

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I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

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It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

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Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

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Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

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Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

---

Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

---

Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

---

Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

---

We will never agree about this.

---

And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

---

Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

---

You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

---

Okay but a trans person is someone who was born as one gender and wants to live and identify as the other. These people exist and are not lying about it.

---

Okay and they can do what they want. Nowhere have I said a man can't dress femininely if they choose or vice versa. Just don't force me to buy into it.

---

Again, not sure what "force" means here. I won't personally hold you at gunpoint and make you use the right names or pronouns. I will personally think you're an a**hole if you don't do it after specifically being asked by the other person, though. And at some point if you start pushing legislation that literally forces trans people to no longer live as they please I will definitely object to that.

I also see here almost exactly, to the letter, the same arguments previously used against the idea of gays getting married. Marriage is between a man and a woman! It's just fact! Don't force me to buy into your agenda! Except the ask was just for gay people to be able to marry and live their own lives with their own families. Yes, I know that trans people are different from homosexuals. It's always something different. To me the fundamental principle of letting adults live their own lives and offering the same common courtesy to all remains the same.

Medical transition for kids is a separate issue and pretty complicated, so I will leave that aside for now.

---

Cool, if my choices lead me to be socially ostracized that's on me and you can think I'm an *******. Some would argue that the ******* is actually the person "forcing" another person to see them for what they aren't.

Love who you love. Marry who you wanna marry. Idgaf.

Yes, let adults live their own lives, you live as a woman and I'll live choosing to know you're still a man. I won't be hateful towards you but you'll still call me a bigot for calling a man a man.

Be a whatever you want but don't get mad at others when they don't wanna recognize your delusions.

---

Well, that about wraps up this conversation.

---

Good talk buddy

The reason the idea that “both sides” commit political violence is so offensive is not only that it’s false; it’s that it reassigns to the Right to half the guilt of a crime committed against them, while not one Democrat has apologized for the rhetoric they shared with the killer pic.twitter.com/I5DdaRqrB3

— Batya Ungar-Sargon (@bungarsargon) September 16, 2025

PAC-10-BEAR said:

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The reason the idea that “both sides” commit political violence is so offensive is not only that it’s false; it’s that it reassigns to the Right to half the guilt of a crime committed against them, while not one Democrat has apologized for the rhetoric they shared with the killer pic.twitter.com/I5DdaRqrB3

— Batya Ungar-Sargon (@bungarsargon) September 16, 2025

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This is just so 100% incorrect I'm kind of in disbelief she said it, but Batya is an idiot so I shouldn't be surprised.

We have already discussed many times the killing of Democrat Melissa Hartman by conservative reigious activist and one-time registered Republican Vance Boelter. Republicans and conservatives on this very forum have tried to argue that Boelter was actually a leftist, which the bulk of available evidence says he was not. Both sides absolutely do this.

Simple Question:

How is it possibly legal to carry and openly display these kinds of semi-automatic weapons (AR-15s?) in public?

What purpose other than intimidation does this serve, and whatever 2nd amendment defense is offered, isn't it out-weighed the right of citizens to not have their safety so brazenly threatened?