Charlie Kirk

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concordtom
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When Charlie Kirk died, Republicans said celebrating a person's death was beneath us. Called it vile. Called for accountability.

Trump just posted: "Robert Mueller just died. Good, I'm glad he's dead."
bearister
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Remember, MAGAs think it is amusing and quaint that people of good faith think they are scoring points when they point out a significant hypocrisy on their part. They are vile people. They don't care.
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Aunburdened
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bearister said:

Remember, MAGAs think it is amusing and quaint that people of good faith think they are scoring points when they point out a significant hypocrisy on their part. They are vile people. They don't care.

Charlie Kirk stuff was always over the top and it was hypocritical on both sides, both for conservatives acting like the guy deserved sainthood and for the liberals who were glad a guy got shot for speech, but don't say boo about guys that die that actively ruined other people's lives.
concordtom
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Aunburdened said:

bearister said:

Remember, MAGAs think it is amusing and quaint that people of good faith think they are scoring points when they point out a significant hypocrisy on their part. They are vile people. They don't care.

Charlie Kirk stuff was always over the top and it was hypocritical on both sides, both for conservatives acting like the guy deserved sainthood and for the liberals who were glad a guy got shot for speech, but don't say boo about guys that die that actively ruined other people's lives.

I'm not sure about anyone being glad he was shot. That's hyperbole.

My recollection was simply that it was understandable that he offended someone. That's different than both glad and/or justified. It was wrong, nobody would say otherwise.

DiabloWags
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concordtom said:

Aunburdened said:

bearister said:

Remember, MAGAs think it is amusing and quaint that people of good faith think they are scoring points when they point out a significant hypocrisy on their part. They are vile people. They don't care.

Charlie Kirk stuff was always over the top and it was hypocritical on both sides, both for conservatives acting like the guy deserved sainthood and for the liberals who were glad a guy got shot for speech, but don't say boo about guys that die that actively ruined other people's lives.

I'm not sure about anyone being glad he was shot. That's hyperbole.

My recollection was simply that it was understandable that he offended someone. That's different than both glad and/or justified. It was wrong, nobody would say otherwise.




Ironically, some of his biggest defenders on the internet would get their "feelings" hurt if someone was critical of Kirk. And then there was the hypocrite JD VANCE.

More hypocrisy.



bearister
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It was horrible that he was murdered. It was also unfortunate that Kirk ignored the warning of the security expert that told him there was a 100% chance he would be murdered during his college campus tour if he didn't improve security.

"The security expert had advised Kirk to use bulletproof glass panels to protect him and metal detectors to screen anyone within a 700 metre radius.

"I told him that a sniper would probably go for a headshot, which means it was of critical importance to have the ballistic glass," Herzog said."

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/charlie-kirk-was-warned-he-would-be-100-killed-before-utah-shooting-9272558/amp/1
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DiabloWags
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bearister said:

It was horrible that he was murdered. It was also unfortunate that Kirk ignored the warning of the security expert that told him there was a 100% chance he would be murdered during his college campus tour if he didn't improve security.

"The security expert had advised Kirk to use bulletproof glass panels to protect him and metal detectors to screen anyone within a 700 metre radius.

"I told him that a sniper would probably go for a headshot, which means it was of critical importance to have the ballistic glass," Herzog said."

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/charlie-kirk-was-warned-he-would-be-100-killed-before-utah-shooting-9272558/amp/1


As I have pointed out on several occasions, his security team was a joke.

The event at Utah State was WIDE OPEN. No central entry gate. No tickets being scanned
No bags being checked or metal detectors, etc. No one on the perimeter. No one on the roof.

How could you be so dumb?

It's almost as though he was setting himself up to be a martyr.
concordtom
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DiabloWags said:

bearister said:

It was horrible that he was murdered. It was also unfortunate that Kirk ignored the warning of the security expert that told him there was a 100% chance he would be murdered during his college campus tour if he didn't improve security.

"The security expert had advised Kirk to use bulletproof glass panels to protect him and metal detectors to screen anyone within a 700 metre radius.

"I told him that a sniper would probably go for a headshot, which means it was of critical importance to have the ballistic glass," Herzog said."

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/charlie-kirk-was-warned-he-would-be-100-killed-before-utah-shooting-9272558/amp/1


As I have pointed out on several occasions, his security team was a joke. The event at Utah State was WIDE OPEN. No central entry gate. No tickets being scanned
No bags being checked or metal detectors, etc. No one on the perimeter. No one on the roof.

How could you be so dumb?

It's almost as though he was setting himself up to be a martyr.



Someone who has the audacity to run around the country shooting his mouth off in such a way to anger and upset thousand to millions of people might also be unaware enough to end up getting himself shot.

It's like, a lack of empathy.
Reminds me of someone else I know.
PAC-10-BEAR
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concordtom said:

When Charlie Kirk died, Republicans said celebrating a person's death was beneath us. Called it vile. Called for accountability.

Trump just posted: "Robert Mueller just died. Good, I'm glad he's dead."

PAC-10-BEAR
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Charlie Kirk was assassinated by a disturbed person with an equally disturbed transgender boyfriend.

Many libs thought Kirk deserved it because he was racist or too Christian for their liking.

It's that simple.
concordtom
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Wanna know what's simple?
Roger Stone should be rotting in a jail for being a no good scumbag.

It's that simple.

Poor baby got perp walked after bragging about being a perp.
Pfft.
concordtom
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PAC-10-BEAR said:

Charlie Kirk was assassinated by a disturbed person with an equally disturbed transgender boyfriend.

Many libs thought Kirk deserved it because he was racist or too Christian for their liking.

It's that simple.


You are entitled to your opinion, but I think many people could understand that he got shot, what with his vast inflammatory rhetoric - but NIT that he deserved it.
I think you state your opinions as fact, which is wrong.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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concordtom said:

PAC-10-BEAR said:

Charlie Kirk was assassinated by a disturbed person with an equally disturbed transgender boyfriend.

Many libs thought Kirk deserved it because he was racist or too Christian for their liking.

It's that simple.


You are entitled to your opinion, but I think many people could understand that he got shot, what with his vast inflammatory rhetoric - but NIT that he deserved it.
I think you state your opinions as fact, which is wrong.
Indeed. At the time I posted that I disagreed with most of his opinions but I was greatly saddened and disturbed as I personally lowered our office flag to half staff. I also expressed my sorrow for his wife and kids. I still feel sorrow for his kids.
bearister
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Roger Stone has a cool back tat. At least he will always have that.

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Eastern Oregon Bear
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bearister said:

Roger Stone has a cool back tat. At least he will always have that.


Meh, it's the political equivalent of having a KISS RULES! tattoo.
bearister
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His wife has a tat of Elvis on her right thigh and a tat of Johnny Cash on her left thigh. The one in the middle, they say, resembles Willie Nelson.


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concordtom
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

bearister said:

Roger Stone has a cool back tat. At least he will always have that.


Meh, it's the political equivalent of having a KISS RULES! tattoo.


Remember when people used to wear t-shirts that say Sex and Drugs and Rock-n-Roll?
I didn't think very highly of them, but they were generally young and stupid.

This is a grown man who makes the permanent pronouncement that I Believe In Corruption.

Further, watch interviews of him. It's like watching a drug addict tell you about all the times he get super high and did terrible things. Not funny!!!
concordtom
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bearister said:

His wife has a tat of Elvis on her right thigh and a tat of Johnny Cash on her left thigh. The one in the middle, they say, resembles Willie Nelson.





My mom was talking to me about who knows when, when I suddenly started laughing.
She became anxious, "are you laughing at something I said?"

"No, listen to this…"
I explained the chat conversation, how Roger Stone is a scumbag who has a tattoo of Nixon and has bragged about cheating ways for Trump, too.
I then read her your joke.

Now we are both laughing!
Cal88
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concordtom said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

bearister said:

Roger Stone has a cool back tat. At least he will always have that.



Meh, it's the political equivalent of having a KISS RULES! tattoo.


Remember when people used to wear t-shirts that say Sex and Drugs and Rock-n-Roll?
I didn't think very highly of them, but they were generally young and stupid.

This is a grown man who makes the permanent pronouncement that I Believe In Corruption.

Further, watch interviews of him. It's like watching a drug addict tell you about all the times he get super high and did terrible things. Not funny!!!


Nixon looks squeaky clean by today's POTUS standards.

He also stopped the Vietnam War, which LBJ escalated, to the point where he wrecked the Bretton Woods gold standard, not to mention killing millions of Vietnamese and being responsible for the death of tens of thousands of GIs.
DiabloWags
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Nixon also created the EPA.
Which Trump is destroying.

If you are a Trump supporter, you enjoy seeing your environment polluted.

MAGA!

concordtom
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Cal88 said:

concordtom said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

bearister said:

Roger Stone has a cool back tat. At least he will always have that.



Meh, it's the political equivalent of having a KISS RULES! tattoo.


Remember when people used to wear t-shirts that say Sex and Drugs and Rock-n-Roll?
I didn't think very highly of them, but they were generally young and stupid.

This is a grown man who makes the permanent pronouncement that I Believe In Corruption.

Further, watch interviews of him. It's like watching a drug addict tell you about all the times he get super high and did terrible things. Not funny!!!


Nixon looks squeaky clean by today's POTUS standards.

He also stopped the Vietnam War, which LBJ escalated, to the point where he wrecked the Bretton Woods gold standard, not to mention killing millions of Vietnamese and being responsible for the death of tens of thousands of GIs.


I previously did a post challenging your claim that Vietnam was responsible for falling off the gold standard. It was long time coming and multifaceted, not nearly as attributable to the war budget as you indicate.
Cal88
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Quote:

  • Balance of Payments Crisis: War spending contributed to a massive deficit in the U.S. balance of payments, creating a "gold drain" that ultimately forced President Nixon to end the dollar's convertibility into gold in 1971.


concordtom
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Cal88 said:

Quote:

  • Balance of Payments Crisis: War spending contributed to a massive deficit in the U.S. balance of payments, creating a "gold drain" that ultimately forced President Nixon to end the dollar's convertibility into gold in 1971.





How much did Vietnam contribute to to US balance of payments crisis, contribute to the end of the gold standard?

The short answer: Vietnam was a meaningful contributorbut not the primary causeof the U.S. balance of payments crisis and the eventual end of the gold standard in 1971. It acted more like an accelerant on a system that was already under strain.

Let me break it down clearly.



1) What was already going wrong (before Vietnam peaked)

Under the Bretton Woods system, the U.S. promised to convert dollars into gold at $35/oz.

That system depended on one key condition:
The U.S. needed to maintain confidence that it had enough gold to back the dollars held abroad.

But by the early 1960s, problems were already emerging:
Europe and Japan had recovered economically
The U.S. was running persistent balance-of-payments deficits
Dollars were piling up overseas ("dollar overhang")

This is often called the Triffin dilemma:
To supply the world with dollars U.S. must run deficits
But running deficits undermines confidence in gold convertibility



2) Where Vietnam comes in

The Vietnam War significantly worsened this situation, especially after escalation in 1965.

Direct financial impact:
War cost: roughly $120150 billion (1960s dollars)
Peak annual spending: ~$2530 billion/year
Much of this spending flowed overseas (troops, bases, procurement)

Balance of payments effect:

Vietnam caused:
Large outflows of dollars to Asia and allies
Increased U.S. deficits
More dollars accumulating in foreign central banks

That made other countries increasingly nervous:

"Can the U.S. actually convert all these dollars into gold?"



3) The inflation problem (critical piece)

Vietnam wasn't just about external deficitsit also drove domestic inflation.

The U.S. tried to finance:
The war
AND Great Society programs

…without raising taxes enough.

Result:
Rising inflation (late 1960s)
U.S. goods became less competitive
Trade balance worsened
Confidence in the dollar weakened further



4) The breaking point: gold outflows

Foreign governmentsespecially:
France under Charles de Gaulle

began demanding gold instead of holding dollars.

This led to:
Rapid U.S. gold reserve depletion
Mounting pressure on the system



5) 1971: The end of the gold standard

By 1971, the situation became untenable.

President Richard Nixon responded with the Nixon Shock:
Suspended gold convertibility
Effectively ended Bretton Woods



6) So how much did Vietnam matter?

A useful way to think about it:

Vietnam was not the root causebut it was a major trigger.

Relative importance:

Factor Importance

Structural flaws (Triffin dilemma) 5-stars (primary cause)

U.S. global deficits (pre-Vietnam) 4-stars

Vietnam War spending
4-stars

Inflation (guns + butter policy) 4-stars

Foreign loss of confidence (final trigger) 5-stars




Bottom line

Vietnam:
Significantly worsened U.S. deficits
Accelerated inflation
Undermined global confidence in the dollar

But even without Vietnam:
The Bretton Woods system was likely unsustainable long-term

The war didn't create the crisisbut it brought it to a head much faster, helping force the collapse by 1971.



If you want, I can quantify this more tightly (e.g., % of deficit attributable to Vietnam vs. other factors, or compare it to today's dollar system).
concordtom
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we were never going to be able to be the banker to the world, tying gold to dollars fixed at whatever that arbitrary number was forever.

Markets are always dynamic.
bearister
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…..but the worst thing about Vietnam was what it did to a generation of men that were not well connected enough to get into the National Guard, get false medical reports to disqualify them or get deferments and thus served and were killed, maimed or suffered lifelong PTSD.





*BTW, 242 soldiers had their portraits in that issue of Life Magazine, all killed the Week of May 28 to June 3, 1969.
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concordtom
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I spoke with my 79 year old uncle last week.
He graduated in June of 68 from college and the army had his ass, induction immediately after the graduation. He requested a bit of time and he was granted till September 1.
On Aug 15 he was able to get accepted into officer training school with the coast guard. 10,000 applicants, 167 accepted.

I asked who they knew. His parents knew someone he said. He was from Seattle.

He said he would have gone on Sept 1.
Lucky guy.

I shiver thinking about those who went.
I spoke with a woman who dated a guy who didn't come back.
smh
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bearister said:

..not well connected enough to get into the National Guard, get false medical reports to disqualify them or get deferments and thus served and were killed, maimed or suffered lifelong PTSD.

not connected/dead/maimed yet # woo hoo / so much winning / go bears
sighned, not dead yet # funk trunk; i.c.e. too
 
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