" As for the 1960s protests - the Baby Boomers have always been about themselves. They weren't in the streets because of the war, they were in the streets because of the draft."

A lot of them were Vietnam combat Vets. Many women protested and they were not subject to the draft. A lot of the protestors then took serious beatings by the Guard and the Blue Meanies and kept at it anyway. Most of the young today wouldn't be able to pass a Draft physical. Either too f@ucking fat and out of shape or that pesky drug test. Let's keep this aimed at where it belongs and not cannibalize our own.

OaktownBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Divider in chief.

His law and order message will far better received than is perceived on this site.

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We all have our bubbles. We all see things based on our peers. IMO, your generation still expects that following generations will ultimately view things the way yours does. I think that it may be better received among your peers, but not nearly so much among mine and definitely not among those younger than me. No major leader has taken the line to go out and shoot protesters. The views of law enforcement in the 60's have been rejected as ineffective for decades. I don't think Gen-X and younger are going to be nearly as susceptible to this message than you think.

I could definitely be wrong. We shall see.

---

I would put it this way: Black Lives Matter started in 2013 following the Trayvon Martin killing. It was popularized further in 2014 thanks to the Ferguson incident and Eric Garner killing. So that's 6 or 7 years ago. If you're an 18-year-old graduating senior right now, you've been living with this movement as a regular public presence since you were 11 or 12 years old. They're not some weird interloper protest group to you, just something that's always been around. That's going to color your perception in ways that older people can't understand.

I have no solid prediction on how this will impact the general public opinion across all age groups, but I am also fairly confident that Trump's message is not helping him with the younger set.

Biden vs Trump is like the Soviet Union post Brezhnev where old farts ascended and quickly died. It's an inconsequential election between two failed models. These riots are normalized by now and the only difference is who the two parties blame- outside agitators, antifa, white supremacists or Russians. Everyone but themselves.

About 40% of the 18-29 age group votes. I don't see that changing this year. They don't have anyone to look to for moral or political leadership

OTOH 70%, of the over 60 group votes and they will be moved by calls for order. That doesn't mean Trump will win because he also represents chaos.

dajo9 said:

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I tend to think wiaf is right about how this is all viewed by the public. Otoh, if the youth are made more mobilized to vote, that could carry the day in November.

As for the 1960s protests - the Baby Boomers have always been about themselves. They weren't in the streets because of the war, they were in the streets because of the draft.

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I'm very critical of boomers, but I don't think that is fair. You can't argue that they were protesting for Civil rights for their selfish reasons. Many of the people who were in the streets because of the war had means to avoid the draft. In fact, it became clear that the military was targeting groups and universities that protested the war with draft notices so protesting put them at higher risk of being drafted.

My disappointment with that generation is I feel they have never moved on from the battles of their youth no matter how they reduce in relevance, they have not understood the next generations, and I feel they have championed policies to protect their personal wealth above all else, leading the current wealth disparity to be skewed towards the older generation more than any other time.

I just don't see younger generations being susceptible to "Send in the military and start shooting people". Frankly, I'm not convinced the older generation will be up for that in the numbers some people think. Hopefully people will remember when that was done in the 60's and how well that worked.

wifeisafurd said:

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Divider in chief.

His law and order message will far better received than is perceived on this site.

---

Where? On faux news?

Are we better off now than 3 1/2 years ago?

OaktownBear said:

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dajo9 said:

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I tend to think wiaf is right about how this is all viewed by the public. Otoh, if the youth are made more mobilized to vote, that could carry the day in November.

As for the 1960s protests - the Baby Boomers have always been about themselves. They weren't in the streets because of the war, they were in the streets because of the draft.

---

I'm very critical of boomers, but I don't think that is fair. You can't argue that they were protesting for Civil rights for their selfish reasons. Many of the people who were in the streets because of the war had means to avoid the draft. In fact, it became clear that the military was targeting groups and universities that protested the war with draft notices so protesting put them at higher risk of being drafted.

My disappointment with that generation is I feel they have never moved on from the battles of their youth no matter how they reduce in relevance, they have not understood the next generations, and I feel they have championed policies to protect their personal wealth above all else, leading the current wealth disparity to be skewed towards the older generation more than any other time.

I just don't see younger generations being susceptible to "Send in the military and start shooting people". Frankly, I'm not convinced the older generation will be up for that in the numbers some people think. Hopefully people will remember when that was done in the 60's and how well that worked.

---

I agree with Bearister that we shouldn't turn this into a fight about the 1960's but I'll add this. The Baby Boom has always gotten too much credit for the Civil Rights movement, which was largely fought by the Silent Generation. Even John Lewis was considered a young activist and he was Silent Generation. Our own Mario Savio was Silent Generation (fringe). When King gave his I have a Dream Speech Baby Boomers were about 0 - 20 years old. Did young white Boomers give a nod to Civil Rights while they were marching in the streets to prevent being shipped off to Vietnam? Yes.

And it's not really a knock on the Baby Boom. Later generations would riot too if they were subject to a draft to be shipped off to Iraq but later generations have been fine as long as it is others going off to war.

Biden did nothing except pander to his base by exploiting a racial and misguided ideology. I don't blame him. Anybody other candidate would do the same.

Trump needs to get off his arse and end the terrorism with a swify and intentional reckoning. That's your job. To neutralize threats both foreign and domestic. Do your job. Warn the lawful protesters that if violence is occurring that it's in their best interest to vacate immediately for their own safety, and that if you obstruct state and federal law agencies from dispersing the crowd for everybody's safety, you are by definition part of the problem and will be dealth with accordingly. They've been warned.

Trump has reached the 'mad emperor' stage, and it's terrifying to behold


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/02/weve-reached-the-mad-emperor-stage-and-its-terrifying-to-behold?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

wifeisafurd said:

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OaktownBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Divider in chief.

His law and order message will far better received than is perceived on this site.

---

We all have our bubbles. We all see things based on our peers. IMO, your generation still expects that following generations will ultimately view things the way yours does. I think that it may be better received among your peers, but not nearly so much among mine and definitely not among those younger than me. No major leader has taken the line to go out and shoot protesters. The views of law enforcement in the 60's have been rejected as ineffective for decades. I don't think Gen-X and younger are going to be nearly as susceptible to this message than you think.

I could definitely be wrong. We shall see.

---

I'm assuming we can agree that he gave an incredibly divisive speech?

As to your main point, for the last decade I kept hearing that demographic changes will mean a change in government and policy, and yet here we are. My favorite is demographic changes will make Texas a blue state - heard that one for 20 years plus running now. The generation discussion is strange. The generation above me was in the streets demonstrating in college against war and social injustice, yet they have turned conservative. We were not exactly a conservative bastion when I went to Cal, but again wherever my generation (whatever it is called - trail or post boomers?) also became more conservative. I mean I have black and gay friends who voted for Trump. so yes we all have bubbles and generational stuff.

As for the younger - and I assume younger voters are you talking about, let me quote Churchill: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

The question for you is do our voting patterns really change drastically as we age and if that's the case, will Millennials be the generation that bucks the trend by not becoming more conservative as they get older?

Some Pew stuff since I know you ardently read polls:

"In 2007, 68 percent of that generation's respondents wanted "a bigger government providing more services." That number for Millennials dipped to 57 percent ten years later still the largest percentage among any demographic, but also the only generation to show a decreased interest in the idea of bigger government.
Following other generations, Millennials are also more likely to say it's important to protect the rights of Americans to own guns than to control gun ownership (27 percent in 2007, 43 percent in 2017). As well, support for government aid for the needy has decreased, although support for gay marriage, marijuana legalization and abortion has increased for Millennials over the past ten years. Somewhat of a mixed bag on the wedge issue. The generation still leans more Democratic. That mixed bag may reflect the increased racial and ethnic diversity in younger generations 40 percent of Millennials are non-white, the highest share among the adult generations. So I don't know either.

But I suspect there is a large portion of the population this played very well with, as well as those impacted directly by the rioting and looting. There are a lot more of Hankie's pictures than those shown by Okaydo on the internet. TV was absurd. Two nights ago all they showed on every LA station was revolving shots of violent demonstrators and property burning. For hours. Maybe there is a more diverse view on public radio (thought they had a lot of angry callers about the police not protecting their cities from rioters). Let me repspectfully submit to you this site is not representative.

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https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/

Quote:

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sound tract captioning: MY EYES

> HORRIBLE ; a phd candidate in horribleness..

Any dolt with half a brain
Can see that humankind has gone insane
To the point where I don't know
If I'll upset the status quo
If I throw poison in the water main

Listen close to everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart
And crashing to the ground

I cannot believe my eyes
How the world's filled with filth and lies
But it's plain to see
Evil inside of me is on the rise.. ...

~~~

> PENNY ; a long suffering innocent

Look around
We're living with the lost and found
Just when you feel you've almost drowned
You find yourself on solid ground
And you believe

There's good in everybody's heart
Keep it safe and sound
With hope, you can do your part
To turn a life around

I cannot believe my eyes
Is the world finally growing wise
'Cause it seems to me
Some kind of harmony
Is on the rise.. .. ..

---

sniff

okaydo said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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OaktownBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

Divider in chief.

His law and order message will far better received than is perceived on this site.

---

We all have our bubbles. We all see things based on our peers. IMO, your generation still expects that following generations will ultimately view things the way yours does. I think that it may be better received among your peers, but not nearly so much among mine and definitely not among those younger than me. No major leader has taken the line to go out and shoot protesters. The views of law enforcement in the 60's have been rejected as ineffective for decades. I don't think Gen-X and younger are going to be nearly as susceptible to this message than you think.

I could definitely be wrong. We shall see.

---

I'm assuming we can agree that he gave an incredibly divisive speech?

As to your main point, for the last decade I kept hearing that demographic changes will mean a change in government and policy, and yet here we are. My favorite is demographic changes will make Texas a blue state - heard that one for 20 years plus running now. The generation discussion is strange. The generation above me was in the streets demonstrating in college against war and social injustice, yet they have turned conservative. We were not exactly a conservative bastion when I went to Cal, but again wherever my generation (whatever it is called - trail or post boomers?) also became more conservative. I mean I have black and gay friends who voted for Trump. so yes we all have bubbles and generational stuff.

As for the younger - and I assume younger voters are you talking about, let me quote Churchill: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

The question for you is do our voting patterns really change drastically as we age and if that's the case, will Millennials be the generation that bucks the trend by not becoming more conservative as they get older?

Some Pew stuff since I know you ardently read polls:

"In 2007, 68 percent of that generation's respondents wanted "a bigger government providing more services." That number for Millennials dipped to 57 percent ten years later still the largest percentage among any demographic, but also the only generation to show a decreased interest in the idea of bigger government.
Following other generations, Millennials are also more likely to say it's important to protect the rights of Americans to own guns than to control gun ownership (27 percent in 2007, 43 percent in 2017). As well, support for government aid for the needy has decreased, although support for gay marriage, marijuana legalization and abortion has increased for Millennials over the past ten years. Somewhat of a mixed bag on the wedge issue. The generation still leans more Democratic. That mixed bag may reflect the increased racial and ethnic diversity in younger generations 40 percent of Millennials are non-white, the highest share among the adult generations. So I don't know either.

But I suspect there is a large portion of the population this played very well with, as well as those impacted directly by the rioting and looting. There are a lot more of Hankie's pictures than those shown by Okaydo on the internet. TV was absurd. Two nights ago all they showed on every LA station was revolving shots of violent demonstrators and property burning. For hours. Maybe there is a more diverse view on public radio (thought they had a lot of angry callers about the police not protecting their cities from rioters). Let me repspectfully submit to you this site is not representative.

---

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/

---

At this juncture I don't know what to believe that I read anymore. This is listed as one of his most famous quotes by a lot of sources.

calpoly said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Divider in chief.

His law and order message will far better received than is perceived on this site.

---

Where? On faux news?

Are we better off now than 3 1/2 years ago?

---

From USA Today: Roughly three-quarters of respondents who watched President Trump's State of the Union address approved of his speech, according to CNN and CBS News polls released late Tuesday.

Seventy-six percent approved of the speech in the CBS poll, with 24 percent saying they disapproved. About 59 percent of respondents to the CNN poll had a very positive reaction to the speech, while 17 percent said they had a somewhat positive reaction. Roughly one-quarter 23 percent had a negative reaction in that survey.

However, a significantly higher proportion of Tuesday's viewers were Republicans, compared to the population at large, reflecting a trend that more State of the Union viewers tend to be members of the president's party.
About 43 percent of respondents in the CBS poll identified themselves as Republicans, while 24 percent said they were Democrats and 30 percent identified as independents. In a CBS poll released last month, 25 percent of those surveyed said they were Republicans.
CNN respondents were also 17 percent more likely to identify as Republicans than the general population, and 61 percent told CNN before the speech they already approved of the job Trump is doing as president, a figure about 20 points higher than his national approval rating.
Approval of the speech was starkly divided along partisan lines. Almost all of Republicans who tuned in 97 percent approved of the president's speech, according to CBS News, while only 30 percent of Democrats said the same. About 82 percent of independents in that survey who watched the speech liked what they heard."

The answer to your second question is no.

GBear4Life said:

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Biden did nothing except pander to his base by exploiting a racial and misguided ideology. I don't blame him. Anybody other candidate would do the same.

Trump needs to get off his arse and end the terrorism with a swify and intentional reckoning. That's your job. To neutralize threats both foreign and domestic. Do your job. Warn the lawful protesters that if violence is occurring that it's in their best interest to vacate immediately for their own safety, and that if you obstruct state and federal law agencies from dispersing the crowd for everybody's safety, you are by definition part of the problem and will be dealth with accordingly. They've been warned.

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PLUS ONE

GBear4Life said:

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Biden did nothing except pander to his base by exploiting a racial and misguided ideology. I don't blame him. Anybody other candidate would do the same.

Trump needs to get off his arse and end the terrorism with a swify and intentional reckoning. That's your job. To neutralize threats both foreign and domestic. Do your job. Warn the lawful protesters that if violence is occurring that it's in their best interest to vacate immediately for their own safety, and that if you obstruct state and federal law agencies from dispersing the crowd for everybody's safety, you are by definition part of the problem and will be dealth with accordingly. They've been warned.

---

Trump's best course of action is to shout Black Lives Matter from the White House balcony.

Following your advice will only boost the number of protesters (as is happening tonight). Then it'll look more unruly and more disastrous. And he'll look more out of control. As I said in another thread, violence begets violence.

Opinion | America, We Break It, It's Gone - The New York Times


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/opinion/trump-george-floyd-america.html

I apologize for posting the whole thing, rather than just linking it, but this story is a MUST READ.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/politics/trump-walk-lafayette-square.html

bearister said:

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* I have always suspected that GB4 and kelly09 engage in mutual upvoting of their posts.

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any of the hundreds of "not that there's anything wrong with that" videos go here,, eh?
# ;~)

author ! author !!

Quote:

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> Thomas Loren Friedman (/fridmn/; born July 20, 1953) is an American political commentator and author. He is a three-time Pulitzer Prize winner who is a weekly columnist for The New York Times. He has written extensively on foreign affairs, global trade, the Middle East, globalization, and environmental issues.

---

favorite bits indulged under the Less Is More principle..

Quote:

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>.. Donald Trump, a man whose first instinct, when the country is being ripped apart, was to have peaceful protesters tear-gassed and shoved aside so that he could walk to a nearby church just for a photo op outside holding a Bible. He did not open that Bible to read a healing passage. He did not enter the church to host a healing dialogue. He posed for a photo op to drive up his support among white evangelicals. Trump was holding the Bible upside down..

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Quote:

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>.. The Senate Republican caucus today is nothing but a political brothel. Mitch McConnell is the madame. And McConnell and his caucus rent themselves out by the night to whomever will energize the Republican base to keep them in power and secure the economic benefits for their wealthiest donors..

---

Quote:

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>.. enlisted the local rapper Killer Mike at her press conference, who told the city:
>
> "It is your duty not to burn your own house down for anger with an enemy. It is your duty to fortify your own house so that you may be a house of refuge in times of organization. Now is the time to plot, plan, strategize, organize and mobilize. It is time to beat up prosecutors you don't like at the voting booth. It is time to hold mayoral offices accountable, chiefs and deputy chiefs. I'd like to appreciate our mayor for talking to us like a black mama and telling us to take our ass home..

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okaydo said:

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bearister said:

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When the Bible photo op was a fail yesterday, universally rejected, and condemned by the clergy of many denominations, do you think:

1. Mark Meadows, Hope Hicks and Jarvanka each retreated to a separate dark recess of the West Wing to sob in stoic silence?
2. Did any of them wail like banshees?
3. Did they all go together to the same recess and do it in group hug fashion?
4. Did they just do it in pairs?
5. Who was in the pairs?
6. What was the average daily increase in their Xanax prescription today?*

* I have always suspected that GB4 and kelly09 engage in mutual upvoting of their posts.

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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-church-photo-op-took-defense-secretary-esper-gen-n1222391

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Well, he did get a firsthand look at how much damage happened!