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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to philly1121 • 2:06p, 7/27/22
philly1121 said:
Deutsch said:
Dennis Dodd article 7/27/22: Big 10 considering addition of Cal, Stanford, Oregon & Washington…after media rights deal is finalized in August.

If this happens - big IF - then the PAC is toast.
If 6 of the Pac-12 teams go to the B1G then yes, the Pac is toast.

The thing I can't quite wrap my arms around is whether I'd rather stay with the Pac-10 or go to the B1G.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one. "We'll" have more money but let's be honest that won't do a damn thing for the fans. We won't ever see a dollar from those better media deals and will be perennial non-contenders.

If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).

And then I wake up and realize that NIL + transfer portal + media money has pretty much taken all the joy out of college football and that I can't really predict whether I will GAF about Cal football in the new world.
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ColoradoBear
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 2:14p, 7/27/22
Unit2Sucks said:
philly1121 said:
Deutsch said:
Dennis Dodd article 7/27/22: Big 10 considering addition of Cal, Stanford, Oregon & Washington…after media rights deal is finalized in August.

If this happens - big IF - then the PAC is toast.
If 6 of the Pac-12 teams go to the B1G then yes, the Pac is toast.

The thing I can't quite wrap my arms around is whether I'd rather stay with the Pac-10 or go to the B1G.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one. "We'll" have more money but let's be honest that won't do a damn thing for the fans. We won't ever see a dollar from those better media deals and will be perennial non-contenders.

If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).

And then I wake up and realize that NIL + transfer portal + media money has pretty much taken all the joy out of college football and that I can't really predict whether I will GAF about Cal football in the new world.


Discussing those two options in respect to what you'd rather do (or any of us) doesn't really matter in this case though as that's not a choice Cal is likely to be faced with - if Cal gets offered BT, it's almost certainly going to be in a group of teams. At that point, the p12 is done whether Cal accepts or not. Choosing not not go BT means MWC or B12, not P12.

I guess one could question does keeping the BT talk out there by not recommitting to the PAC publically also hold down the value of the conference? Not sure it's in any of the 4 teams best interest to do that, and you'd really need all 4 to coordinate it with a TV offer in hand.
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 2:15p, 7/27/22
Unit2Sucks said:
philly1121 said:
Deutsch said:
Dennis Dodd article 7/27/22: Big 10 considering addition of Cal, Stanford, Oregon & Washington…after media rights deal is finalized in August.

If this happens - big IF - then the PAC is toast.
If 6 of the Pac-12 teams go to the B1G then yes, the Pac is toast.

The thing I can't quite wrap my arms around is whether I'd rather stay with the Pac-10 or go to the B1G.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one. "We'll" have more money but let's be honest that won't do a damn thing for the fans. We won't ever see a dollar from those better media deals and will be perennial non-contenders.

If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).

And then I wake up and realize that NIL + transfer portal + media money has pretty much taken all the joy out of college football and that I can't really predict whether I will GAF about Cal football in the new world.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
-Wayne Gretzky
-Michael Scott
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 2:18p, 7/27/22
ColoradoBear said:
Unit2Sucks said:
philly1121 said:
Deutsch said:
Dennis Dodd article 7/27/22: Big 10 considering addition of Cal, Stanford, Oregon & Washington…after media rights deal is finalized in August.

If this happens - big IF - then the PAC is toast.
If 6 of the Pac-12 teams go to the B1G then yes, the Pac is toast.

The thing I can't quite wrap my arms around is whether I'd rather stay with the Pac-10 or go to the B1G.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one. "We'll" have more money but let's be honest that won't do a damn thing for the fans. We won't ever see a dollar from those better media deals and will be perennial non-contenders.

If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).

And then I wake up and realize that NIL + transfer portal + media money has pretty much taken all the joy out of college football and that I can't really predict whether I will GAF about Cal football in the new world.


Discussing those two options in respect to what you'd rather do (or any of us) doesn't really matter in this case though as that's not a choice Cal is likely to be faced with - if Cal gets offered BT, it's almost certainly going to be in a group of teams. At that point, the p12 is done whether Cal accepts or not. Choosing not not go BT means MWC or B12, not P12.


Yes, I know what I think doesn't matter and that what will be will be. The question is whether we should be excited or not.

MinotStateBeav said:
Unit2Sucks said:
philly1121 said:
Deutsch said:
Dennis Dodd article 7/27/22: Big 10 considering addition of Cal, Stanford, Oregon & Washington…after media rights deal is finalized in August.

If this happens - big IF - then the PAC is toast.
If 6 of the Pac-12 teams go to the B1G then yes, the Pac is toast.

The thing I can't quite wrap my arms around is whether I'd rather stay with the Pac-10 or go to the B1G.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one. "We'll" have more money but let's be honest that won't do a damn thing for the fans. We won't ever see a dollar from those better media deals and will be perennial non-contenders.

If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).

And then I wake up and realize that NIL + transfer portal + media money has pretty much taken all the joy out of college football and that I can't really predict whether I will GAF about Cal football in the new world.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
-Wayne Gretzky
-Michael Scott


That argument can be used for just about any action in this environment. Is going independent a shot? Or staying in the Pac? Moving to Big12 or MWC?
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sycasey
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2:29p, 7/27/22
I would still prefer going to the B1G over the MWC route, because at least then you keep playing interesting opponents.
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Rushinbear
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 3:49p, 7/27/22
Unit2Sucks said:
philly1121 said:
Deutsch said:
Dennis Dodd article 7/27/22: Big 10 considering addition of Cal, Stanford, Oregon & Washington…after media rights deal is finalized in August.

If this happens - big IF - then the PAC is toast.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one. "We'll" have more money but let's be honest that won't do a damn thing for the fans. We won't ever see a dollar from those better media deals and will be perennial non-contenders.

If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).

And then I wake up and realize that NIL + transfer portal + media money has pretty much taken all the joy out of college football and that I can't really predict whether I will GAF about Cal football in the new world.
Only 4 of the old BT contend for their title as it is.

If things ever stabilize, we can decide whether to root for Cal. As it is, I'm trying to just ride it out.
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sycasey
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4:24p, 7/27/22
Rich Eisen further elaborates on his argument for why the Big Ten would want Cal and Stanford.

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bearsandgiants
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4:26p, 7/27/22
It wasn't long ago that there was talk of a massive Big 10 (I refuse to use their stupid G) and Pac 12 merger, to make a mega conference that would overshadow the SEC. Everyone seemed on board then. Why not now? Did no one thing about the travel implications? Having a chance to win it all is always the best position to be in. If there's a spot on a "playoff" for teams outside the SEC and Big10, who win their conference, I'd be fine with that, as long as the competition was interesting. Mountain West and WAC are not interesting in the slightest. Not the universities, nor the cities (for the most part), nor the stadiums, nor the tailgating scene. If "Door #2" has that crap behind it, I guess #2 is the perfect name for it.
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to sycasey • 4:44p, 7/27/22
sycasey said:
I would still prefer going to the B1G over the MWC route, because at least then you keep playing interesting opponents.
The B1G conference games would be a lot more fun than the current mix. I don't care one bit about games WSU, OSU, Utah, Colo, ASU, and AZ. Cal has been a bottom tier team in the P12 anyway for the past 15 years so what is the hand wringing about? We do not lose any built in advantages switching to the B1G.
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Big C
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In reply to sycasey • 4:51p, 7/27/22
sycasey said:
Rich Eisen further elaborates on his argument for why the Big Ten would want Cal and Stanford.


Glad to see somebody out there making our case. Really, it would seem to make a lot of sense for the B1G to take Cal, Furd, UW and Oregon. Each school/program/market has some definite strengths and then there's a 6-team pod out west. Travel becomes much more easy.

Agree with U2S about the new reality: It wasn't too long ago we were debating fans' game day experience. Ahhahahaha! Now, we'd take Thurs/Fri/Sat games at 8 PM, if it meant survival in the "big time". And let's raise a NIL fund!

But bottom line for me, I'm not ready to give up my dream of someday everything clicks and we actually make a big splash.
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Golden One
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 6:03p, 7/27/22
Unit2Sucks said:

.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one.
How is that any different from the last 30 years of Cal football (except for 2-3 years under Tedford)?
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Deutsch
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6:53p, 7/27/22
Interesting that B10 commentators this evening are debating which, if any, B10 west teams can compete with the passing offense/defense of the six pac 12 teams being mentioned.
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Deutsch
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6:55p, 7/27/22
Further recruiting thought: western talent would no longer have to go east to get Midwest/eastern exposure. Let's keep those golden arms here.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to Golden One • 9:03p, 7/27/22
Golden One said:
Unit2Sucks said:

.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one.
How is that any different from the last 30 years of Cal football (except for 2-3 years under Tedford)?
Are you looking to recreate the past or do better? Our odds are probably improved in the new weakened Pac-10. Certainly we are more competitive in a USC/UCLA-less Pac-10 than in the B1G. Is that debatable?
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Golden One
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:23p, 7/27/22
Unit2Sucks said:
Golden One said:
Unit2Sucks said:

.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one.
How is that any different from the last 30 years of Cal football (except for 2-3 years under Tedford)?
Are you looking to recreate the past or do better? Our odds are probably improved in the new weakened Pac-10. Certainly we are more competitive in a USC/UCLA-less Pac-10 than in the B1G. Is that debatable?
No, I'm not trying to recreate the past. I'm simply responding to the poster who said that if we move to the B1G we will likely never win a championship or contend for one. My point is that would be nothing new for us. That. has been our situation for many years.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to Golden One • 10:28p, 7/27/22
Golden One said:
Unit2Sucks said:
Golden One said:
Unit2Sucks said:

.

If we move to the B1G, we will likely never win a championship and may not ever really contend for one.
How is that any different from the last 30 years of Cal football (except for 2-3 years under Tedford)?
Are you looking to recreate the past or do better? Our odds are probably improved in the new weakened Pac-10. Certainly we are more competitive in a USC/UCLA-less Pac-10 than in the B1G. Is that debatable?
No, I'm not trying to recreate the past. I'm simply responding to the poster who said that if we move to the B1G we will likely never win a championship or contend for one. My point is that would be nothing new for us. That. has been our situation for many years.
That's a bad thing right?
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Sebastabear
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12:02a, 7/28/22
I think it's a false choice to say "Would we rather contend for more championships in a weakened PAC 10 or fewer championships in a stronger Big 10" because the reality is the Pac 10 will blow apart the second the Big 10 or the SEC offers UW or Oregon a slot. They've already made that clear. So there is not going to be a conference for us to play in, much less contend for championships in, unless we get ourselves into one of the major conferences left standing when the dust settles.

Cal joining some Mountain West / Big 12 group of also rans makes no sense economically or academically for us. It wouldn't work. We'd be far more likely to go to the Ivey model if those are our only choices.

So the real choice is do we want to see Cal football survive or don't we. I think we've all put far too much into this program to watch it fold up shop. There are a finite number of life rafts out there and we need to get Cal into one of them.
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Strykur
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In reply to Sebastabear • 12:24a, 7/28/22
Sebastabear said:
So the real choice is do we want to see Cal football survive or don't we. I think we've all put far too much into this program to watch it fold up shop. There are a finite number of life rafts out there and we need to get Cal into one of them.
Also with an expanded playoff, it is possible that even without having an outstanding season we still get a shot at Rose or another major bowl, since multiple teams from multiple conferences will be receiving playoff spots.
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calumnus
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In reply to Sebastabear • 4:21a, 7/28/22
Sebastabear said:
I think it's a false choice to say "Would we rather contend for more championships in a weakened PAC 10 or fewer championships in a stronger Big 10" because the reality is the Pac 10 will blow apart the second the Big 10 or the SEC offers UW or Oregon a slot. They've already made that clear. So there is not going to be a conference for us to play in, much less contend for championships in, unless we get ourselves into one of the major conferences left standing when the dust settles.

Cal joining some Mountain West / Big 12 group of also rans makes no sense economically or academically for us. It wouldn't work. We'd be far more likely to go to the Ivey model if those are our only choices.

So the real choice is do we want to see Cal football survive or don't we. I think we've all put far too much into this program to watch it fold up shop. There are a finite number of life rafts out there and we need to get Cal into one of them.


I don't think UW and Oregon get B1G offers without Cal and Stanford also getting offers.

However, if I am any school that gets left behind (say OSU) I would not immediately join the MWC (or B12), I woulld push Kliavkoff to steal yhe best teams from the MWC (or even B12) for the PAC.
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PtownBear1
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6:23a, 7/28/22
Imagine a Pac 8 with Cal, Furd, OSU, WSU in the north and ASU, AZ, CU, and UU in the south. I realize there's no way it would be viable, but we could actually contend for a title! Or at least have a chance to make the title game while losing to UU.

In all seriousness though, this whole thing has me really losing interest in college sports. I had already lost half my interest when Cal killed off basketball. And now, to sustain football, we need to be the cupcake team for a west coast pod of a Midwest based conference.
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Bobodeluxe
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7:31a, 7/28/22
"The cupcake team of the west coast pod of a midwest based.conference"

I registered that for future concession sales.
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BigDaddy
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In reply to PtownBear1 • 7:51a, 7/28/22
PtownBear1 said:
Imagine a Pac 8 with Cal, Furd, OSU, WSU in the north and ASU, AZ, CU, and UU in the south. I realize there's no way it would be viable, but we could actually contend for a title! Or at least have a chance to make the title game while losing to UU.
There wouldn't be divisions in an 8 team league. And if they went down to 8, they'd probably move pretty quickly to add teams, including SDSU and maybe Fresno or Nevada/UNLV to get back to 10 or 12.

That league also has the same problem with stability, since you still be at risk of teams like Arizona or Colorado leaving the league for the Big XII
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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LTbear
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8:15a, 7/28/22

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sosheezy
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In reply to LTbear • 8:20a, 7/28/22
LTbear said:



This the doomsday scenario. BTM = Big Ten Man, this guys source. As far as non journalist Twitter rumor mongers go, he's been may more measured in transmitting "info" than the West Virginia guy. A whole lot of tweets on the topic passing on his source's perspective this morning. FWIW cold water on the recent uptick in Cal being mentioned for expansion. Very much hinges on ND.
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sycasey
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In reply to LTbear • 8:21a, 7/28/22
LTbear said:

This looks like another MHiver guy who just throws out random rumors. From four weeks ago:

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bluehenbear
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:26a, 7/28/22
Unit2Sucks said:



If we stay in the Pac, we should somewhat frequently contend for the title (legit shot at least a few times per decade).
Maybe if the talent level stays where it is now. I think it will be hard to maintain it.
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philly1121
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In reply to sosheezy • 9:32a, 7/28/22
sosheezy said:
LTbear said:



This the doomsday scenario. BTM = Big Ten Man, this guys source. As far as non journalist Twitter rumor mongers go, he's been may more measured in transmitting "info" than the West Virginia guy. A whole lot of tweets on the topic passing on his source's perspective this morning. FWIW cold water on the recent uptick in Cal being mentioned for expansion. Very much hinges on ND.
Oh man. This guys other posts about Cal getting no love from the B1G are pretty heartbreaking but true, unfortunately.


Quote:
California addition to Big 10 is something we haven't heard through anybody. No booster, no one.

and this doozy...

Quote:
California is the top public university in the country. Location is beautiful, but its demographics when it comes to consuming college sports is well below par. Not close.

Ugh.
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sycasey
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In reply to philly1121 • 9:35a, 7/28/22
philly1121 said:
sosheezy said:
LTbear said:



This the doomsday scenario. BTM = Big Ten Man, this guys source. As far as non journalist Twitter rumor mongers go, he's been may more measured in transmitting "info" than the West Virginia guy. A whole lot of tweets on the topic passing on his source's perspective this morning. FWIW cold water on the recent uptick in Cal being mentioned for expansion. Very much hinges on ND.
Oh man. This guys other posts about Cal getting no love from the B1G are pretty heartbreaking but true, unfortunately.


Quote:
California addition to Big 10 is something we haven't heard through anybody. No booster, no one.

and this doozy...

Quote:
California is the top public university in the country. Location is beautiful, but its demographics when it comes to consuming college sports is well below par. Not close.

Ugh.
There's no reason to think anything he says is true.
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maxer
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In reply to philly1121 • 9:37a, 7/28/22
philly1121 said:
sosheezy said:
LTbear said:



This the doomsday scenario. BTM = Big Ten Man, this guys source. As far as non journalist Twitter rumor mongers go, he's been may more measured in transmitting "info" than the West Virginia guy. A whole lot of tweets on the topic passing on his source's perspective this morning. FWIW cold water on the recent uptick in Cal being mentioned for expansion. Very much hinges on ND.
Oh man. This guys other posts about Cal getting no love from the B1G are pretty heartbreaking but true, unfortunately.


Quote:
California addition to Big 10 is something we haven't heard through anybody. No booster, no one.

and this doozy...

Quote:
California is the top public university in the country. Location is beautiful, but its demographics when it comes to consuming college sports is well below par. Not close.

Ugh.
As opposed to Stanford, with their huge and passionate alumni fanbase who sell out every home game.
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philly1121
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In reply to maxer • 9:39a, 7/28/22
lol you've got him on that one. They're pretty apathetic. In a smaller stadium no less.
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berserkeley
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In reply to philly1121 • 10:02a, 7/28/22
philly1121 said:
sosheezy said:
LTbear said:



This the doomsday scenario. BTM = Big Ten Man, this guys source. As far as non journalist Twitter rumor mongers go, he's been may more measured in transmitting "info" than the West Virginia guy. A whole lot of tweets on the topic passing on his source's perspective this morning. FWIW cold water on the recent uptick in Cal being mentioned for expansion. Very much hinges on ND.
Oh man. This guys other posts about Cal getting no love from the B1G are pretty heartbreaking but true, unfortunately.


Quote:
California addition to Big 10 is something we haven't heard through anybody. No booster, no one.

and this doozy...

Quote:
California is the top public university in the country. Location is beautiful, but its demographics when it comes to consuming college sports is well below par. Not close.

Ugh.
I think CBS Sports is perhaps a little more reliable than Big Ten Man.
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BigDaddy
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10:11a, 7/28/22
Notre Dame is the program that screws up the arithmetic. ND joins the B1G and they're at 17 teams. 3 spots left to get to 20 teams with 4 schools competing for those spots in Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal.

Somebody is going to get left out.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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Econ141
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In reply to BigDaddy • 10:13a, 7/28/22
BigDaddy said:
Notre Dame is the program that screws up the arithmetic. ND joins the B1G and they're at 17 teams. 3 spots left to get to 20 teams with 4 schools competing for those spots in Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal.

Somebody is going to get left out.


Yesterday I woke up, read the rumors and was thrilled as it looks like our chances to get in shot you drastically. Today I wake up and all is deflated. Someone put me out of my misery!!
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sycasey
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In reply to Econ141 • 10:21a, 7/28/22
fat_slice said:
BigDaddy said:
Notre Dame is the program that screws up the arithmetic. ND joins the B1G and they're at 17 teams. 3 spots left to get to 20 teams with 4 schools competing for those spots in Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal.

Somebody is going to get left out.


Yesterday I woke up, read the rumors and was thrilled as it looks like our chances to get in shot you drastically. Today I wake up and all is deflated. Someone put me out of my misery!!

Yesterday's rumors are probably more reliable than today's (just compare the sources). But ultimately, we don't really know yet.
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bencgilmore
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In reply to calumnus • 10:23a, 7/28/22
calumnus said:


I don't think UW and Oregon get B1G offers without Cal and Stanford also getting offers.

However, if I am any school that gets left behind (say OSU) I would not immediately join the MWC (or B12), I woulld push Kliavkoff to steal yhe best teams from the MWC (or even B12) for the PAC.
Its semantics at that point. If the Pac 10 dies and OSU/WSU go to the MWC, I'm honestly not sure they would keep pace with SDSUs and Boises of the world. If the Pac survives and adds the Boises and SDSUs of the world, the latter probably still have advantages long term.

Keeping in mind if the Big10 takes any more Pac schools, the 4 corner schools are almost certainly going Big 12... if any of this happens, the end product is going to be a slightly scaled up MWC. Really sucks for OSU and WSU fans.

Of course if things break the wrong way we could be in a pretty similar spot so I won't go counting chickens yet
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