Pac4 rules. Home and away! Twice!

nikeykid said:

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Despite various reports to the contrary, Big 12 has not had conversations w/any of the Pac-4 schools & has no intention in engaging w/those schools, multiple Big 12 sources told @ActionNetworkHQ

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) August 27, 2023

Pendulum swings again

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As a Cal fan, I've learned to expect the worst, so I figure that none of these rumors will turn into anything that works out well for us.

FSU and Clemson want a larger piece of the tier 1 media rights. Like about $10M-$15M more each. They also are not for voting rights for Calford. Both schools but particularly FSU believe they are worth the extra guaranteed media money. They are not opposed in principle to performance related payments but they believe this new money from admitting Calford and SMU needs to go primarily to them.


This is a USC sort of situation. They believe they carry the conference's water and want to be compensated for that. They are making threats they will leave. The GOR is through 2036 but they likely leave before. Others will want to join them. But at present none have the appeal to warrant full shares from the B1G or SEC. They would in time but likely not day 1.

Sure there are other concerns like travel offsets. But tier 1 media money and voting rights are at the heart of this. If Calford comes with full voting rights and the revenue remains equally distributed I will be very surprised. The ACC lesser lights like (BC, Syracuse, GaTech) want Calford and SMU in for conference stability. The big boy programs like Clemson and FSU are fine with instability as they believe that favors them being able to dissolve the conference and exit without penalty or a much reduced negotiated penalty.

They may find the votes and I hope they do. But there is a reason this has not been finalized. There is not a lot of opposition over the schools. Just how and to whom the new money goes and can they vote on day 1. If they get an invite it likely is sold as unanimous but I would be very dubious of that statement.

Are the non blueblood programs like BC or Wake willing to give FSU the money in exchange for Calford full voting rights? And would good programs but non bluebloods like UNC or UVa vote to go along? I agree with the premise that how everything gets distributed is the holdup, but do not believe they have 12 votes.

Meanwhile there is some steam that the Big 12 may soon (already?) get involved. ESPN is trying to help Calford find a home.



Excellent summary of issues. It's like you've been in the ACC for a couple of years already.

As a Louisville fan, I've followed this potential expansion with interest.

Notre Dame pushing hard for both you and Stanford says a lot. Clearly the Irish want to stay independent, and have no love lost for the Big Ten. By adding Cal and Stanford to the ACC, the Irish are maintaining an excellent home for their non-football sports, which goes hand-in-hand with their desire for football independence.

For me, I'd love to see you all join our league. Sure travel will be a b1tch. But it'd be fun having Cal, Stanford and SMU on the schedule going forward.

Best of luck to you all -- hopefully this gets settled soon.

And oh yeah --- screw FSU. I don't think they've fully gotten over Lamar dropping 62 points on 'em when they were (over)ranked #2 in the country.

CALiforniALUM said:

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nikeykid said:

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Despite various reports to the contrary, Big 12 has not had conversations w/any of the Pac-4 schools & has no intention in engaging w/those schools, multiple Big 12 sources told @ActionNetworkHQ

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) August 27, 2023

Pendulum swings again

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That is because ESPN is doing the talking.

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That's basically what I thought when the "leaks" happened and still do now: some combination of Stanford/Cal and ESPN are getting impatient with the ACC's decision-making and are trying to push it over the line. Trying to create some smoke with another conference.

Sources: Resolution on ACC expansion expected in the next few days. Room is warming to adding Cal, SMU and Stanford. Current members working together but still much to discuss and financial details to hammer out.

Votes are “really close,” one source told @247Sports. pic.twitter.com/KGnUBzx9Bw

— Brandon Marcello (@bmarcello) August 27, 2023

dimitrig said:

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Piratefan2102 said:

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How would y'all feel about Cal's three permanent "rivals"… Stanford SMU Wake Forest?

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Why would SMU be a rival to Cal in any way?

The most natural rivals are Georgia Tech, Virginia, and Duke.

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By rival, they mean closest travel partner.

For a combination of likely wins, cultural fit (as a rival), great place to travel to and wins (again) as the two other than Stanford are essentially replacing fUCLA & U$C:
1. UNC (great academics, great town, great area, plenty of direct flights, strong football heritage, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)
2. Georgia Tech (great academics, great city, lots of direct flights, weaker football heritage and solidly weaker than Cal)
3. BC (great city, plenty of direct flights, decent football heritage, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)
4. UVA (great town, but harder to get to from the west coast, decent football heritage, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)
5. Duke (v. similar to Stanford, great area, plenty of direct flights, weaker football heritage and solidly weaker than Cal)
6. SMU (good city, lots of direct flights, weaker academics, decent football heritage (since their death penalty, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)

Piratefan2102 said:

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How would y'all feel about Cal's three permanent "rivals"… Stanford SMU Wake Forest?

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Stanford is a given.

SMU is understandable, and gives Cal a presence in Texas for recruiting, and helps limit travel to a degree, which I like.

As for the third, hey, we are the new guys, we are happy to be here, I'm open to whomever you want it to be.

I'd also be cool, with just having stanford and smu be our protected rivals if everyone else doesnt want to change.

dimitrig said:

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Piratefan2102 said:

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How would y'all feel about Cal's three permanent "rivals"… Stanford SMU Wake Forest?

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Why would SMU be a rival to Cal in any way?

The most natural rivals are Georgia Tech, Virginia, and Duke.

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Cal, Stanford, and SMU will almost certainly be protected games because the three of us have no history with any ACC teams. I would actually be surprised if any of us get a third protected game because none of the ACC teams would want a permanent game against a far flung opponent.

But we should consider ourselves lucky to get a protected game in one of the best recruiting territories in the country. Especially after losing our annual LA game. Plus it's the shortest travel distance for us.

Bowlesman80 said:

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91Cal said:

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For a combination of likely wins, cultural fit (as a rival), great place to travel to and wins (again) as the two other than Stanford are essentially replacing fUCLA & U$C:
1. UNC (great academics, great town, great area, plenty of direct flights, strong football heritage, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)
2. Georgia Tech (great academics, great city, lots of direct flights, weaker football heritage and solidly weaker than Cal)
3. BC (great city, plenty of direct flights, decent football heritage, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)
4. UVA (great town, but harder to get to from the west coast, decent football heritage, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)
5. Duke (v. similar to Stanford, great area, plenty of direct flights, weaker football heritage and solidly weaker than Cal)
6. SMU (good city, lots of direct flights, weaker academics, decent football heritage (since their death penalty, but definitely weighted toward Cal winning more than half)

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I remember Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech being in our Cal songbook circa 1976. Still there?

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Yup. It's the Stanfurd Jonah for us

As I read all this: Momentum building but the votes still aren't quite there. Hmmm. I may have heard that very thing over and over for the last three weeks. Frustrating!

golden sloth said:

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berserkeley said:

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dimitrig said:

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Piratefan2102 said:

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How would y'all feel about Cal's three permanent "rivals"… Stanford SMU Wake Forest?

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Why would SMU be a rival to Cal in any way?

The most natural rivals are Georgia Tech, Virginia, and Duke.

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Cal, Stanford, and SMU will almost certainly be protected games because the three of us have no history with any ACC teams. I would actually be surprised if any of us get a third protected game because none of the ACC teams would want a permanent game against a far flung opponent.

But we should consider ourselves lucky to get a protected game in one of the best recruiting territories in the country. Especially after losing our annual LA game. Plus it's the shortest travel distance for us.

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I know this is a controversial idea, but I still say we try to schedule an annual game with ucla. Stanford, SMU, ucla as consistent foes makes sense. Two traditional rivals, two great recruiting territories.

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F*** ucla!

hell no to UCLA or USC for that matter. let them make their trips to the B10.

LodeBear said:

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hell no to UCLA or USC for that matter. let them make their trips to the B10.

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I get the emotion, but Cal shouldn't make decisions based on anger and spite. The long term health of the program requires good players from LA. Good players from LA are easier to get with consistent games there.

The only instance of not having ucla on the schedule long-term is if Cal and SDSU agree to play a game at SOFI (or another LA based stadium) every year for a decade).

Also, its good to maintain a presence with alumni down there.

golden sloth said:

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LodeBear said:

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hell no to UCLA or USC for that matter. let them make their trips to the B10.

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I get the emotion, but Cal shouldn't make decisions based on anger and spite. The long term health of the program requires good players from LA. Good players from LA are easier to get with consistent games there.

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Yes, very much this. If we can, need to get UCLA and/or USC as regular non-conference foes.

I know we're mad they blew up the conference. It's still good for the program to play them.

golden sloth said:

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LodeBear said:

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hell no to UCLA or USC for that matter. let them make their trips to the B10.

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I get the emotion, but Cal shouldn't make decisions based on anger and spite. The long term health of the program requires good players from LA. Good players from LA are easier to get with consistent games there.

The only instance of not having ucla on the schedule long-term is if Cal and SDSU agree to play a game at SOFI (or another LA based stadium) every year for a decade).

Also, its good to maintain a presence with alumni down there.

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It's not mostly anger and spite. What do we have to gain? For the next few years we'll likely be a $20-30 million program vs a $75 million program. Screw them. Maybe in 5-10 years if/when we're in the same conference.

Apparently Brett not talking to same #Big12 and #Stanford sources that we are. As always, it may or may not happen, but there are definitely talks going on with Stanford and the Big 12. #StayTuned https://t.co/yzwoHerEHq

— THE SWAIM SHOW (@GSwaim) August 27, 2023

Can't wait until this is all over

ferCALgm2 said:

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golden sloth said:

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LodeBear said:

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hell no to UCLA or USC for that matter. let them make their trips to the B10.

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I get the emotion, but Cal shouldn't make decisions based on anger and spite. The long term health of the program requires good players from LA. Good players from LA are easier to get with consistent games there.

The only instance of not having ucla on the schedule long-term is if Cal and SDSU agree to play a game at SOFI (or another LA based stadium) every year for a decade).

Also, its good to maintain a presence with alumni down there.

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It's not mostly anger and spite. What do we have to gain? For the next few years we'll likely be a $20-30 million program vs a $75 million program. Screw them. Maybe in 5-10 years if/when we're in the same conference.

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agree. And for those pro on playing the former schools that can no longer be named in decent company, don't forget that either woudl be our A game in an OOC schedule. And that means no Auburn, no Tennessee, no Northwestern or tOSU. If we want to raise the national profile we need to go beat some of these other teams.