DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

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sycasey said:

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Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

Quote:

---

College revenue sports are rapidly becoming a highly regional play that is losing national interest

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DoubtfulBear said:

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berserkeley said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

Apparently, the ACC's deal with ESPN allows ESPN to reduce the per team payout if the conference drops below 15 members so adding Calford helps protect the current payouts if FSU and Clemson ever decide to buy their way out.

---

The exit fee is so high that the ACC will be in a good spot even if ESPN renegotiated

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

I can think of something that's worse than a fixed income with no COLA…

---

Our tentative offer is not much better than SMU's.

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

It's not clear that Cal and Stanford would be available in the future. Another major conference could snap them up in a year. They might build their own conference out of the best remaining from the AAC and MWC and get locked into a different TV deal. Their athletic departments could implode entirely. They are free agents now.

---

DoubtfulBear said:

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sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

It's not clear that Cal and Stanford would be available in the future. Another major conference could snap them up in a year. They might build their own conference out of the best remaining from the AAC and MWC and get locked into a different TV deal. Their athletic departments could implode entirely. They are free agents now.

---

Then we will get picked up like the 4 G5 schools into Big 12 after O/UT left. No chance we would prefer to stay behind in some hypothetical AAC/MWC hybrid conference. I get you all want to be optimistic but we really don't much leverage, now or later

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

I can think of something that's worse than a fixed income with no COLA…

---

Our tentative offer is not much better than SMU's.

---

It is better than any situation Cal and Stanford will end up in if the ACC doesn't have the votes to make an offer.

---

I know some of you don't like to hear this, but it is better for you, but not necessarily better for Cal. There is a price point where cutting funding and playing at a lower level or not playing at all is a financially better deal. I don't claim to know where that price point is, but it is there. Honestly, I think a lot of you would want us to actually pay the ACC to allow us to join.

Additionally, you are entering a situation where everyone else is starting with more money than you, and at least some have more institutional and alumni support, so you are asking a program to compete with a lot fewer resources than their peers.

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

It's not clear that Cal and Stanford would be available in the future. Another major conference could snap them up in a year. They might build their own conference out of the best remaining from the AAC and MWC and get locked into a different TV deal. Their athletic departments could implode entirely. They are free agents now.

---

Then we will get picked up like the 4 G5 schools into Big 12 after O/UT left. No chance we would prefer to stay behind in some hypothetical AAC/MWC hybrid conference. I get you all want to be optimistic but we really don't much leverage, now or later

---

That is true, but I think it is now or never. I don't think the ACC would think they could always get us later because our brand would be so damaged as to be no use to them later.

---

berserkeley said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

Apparently, the ACC's deal with ESPN allows ESPN to reduce the per team payout if the conference drops below 15 members so adding Calford helps protect the current payouts if FSU and Clemson ever decide to buy their way out.

---

The exit fee is so high that the ACC will be in a good spot even if ESPN renegotiated

---

That's not the point. It's not just about having a home; it's about having a home that pays $30M/team rather than being stuck in a home you cannot leave, but where ESPN can arbitrarily decide you are now worth $10M/team.

---

philly1121 said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

Apparently, the ACC's deal with ESPN allows ESPN to reduce the per team payout if the conference drops below 15 members so adding Calford helps protect the current payouts if FSU and Clemson ever decide to buy their way out.

---

The exit fee is so high that the ACC will be in a good spot even if ESPN renegotiated

---

That's not the point. It's not just about having a home; it's about having a home that pays $30M/team rather than being stuck in a home you cannot leave, but where ESPN can arbitrarily decide you are now worth $10M/team.

---

$30 million? Where did you get that number? Base payout for us in ACC is $8-10 million tops. Its not known if we are part of the performance incentive equation or if we get a payout for increased travel. And we don't know when our base payout will escalate.

---

philly1121 said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

Apparently, the ACC's deal with ESPN allows ESPN to reduce the per team payout if the conference drops below 15 members so adding Calford helps protect the current payouts if FSU and Clemson ever decide to buy their way out.

---

The exit fee is so high that the ACC will be in a good spot even if ESPN renegotiated

---

That's not the point. It's not just about having a home; it's about having a home that pays $30M/team rather than being stuck in a home you cannot leave, but where ESPN can arbitrarily decide you are now worth $10M/team.

---

$30 million? Where did you get that number? Base payout for us in ACC is $8-10 million tops. Its not known if we are part of the performance incentive equation or if we get a payout for increased travel. And we don't know when our base payout will escalate.

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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JB was a Chieftain said:

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dimitrig said:

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Econ141 said:

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TheBearWontDie said:

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calumnus said:

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GoCal80 said:

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https://www.si.com/college/georgiatech/football/notre-dame-ad-is-unsure-when-acc-presidents-call-will-be-rescheduled

From the Norte Dame President:

"You can't have two of the great academic institutions in the world not have a place to play. We're working on (a solution). There is still consideration of the ACC as a home for those schools."

"A complete disaster" what's happened in college athletics. "Everybody in the industry has to take responsibility here I'm not excluding myself from that. I think the decision-making lost its way in terms on the focus of the student athlete & what's primarily best for them."

---

Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us.

---

They felt remorse for robbing that game from us last year... credit them for standing up for us/LSJU regardless of their motivations. I'll be rooting for them versus FSU I'll tell you that much.

---

Who's ever think this debacle would make me like both Stanford and Notre Dame more? To be honest - I am voting for Stanford over all other pack 12 teams except Cal obviously. That might change of course after this year.

---

I am sort of hoping that the former Pac-12 teams win their new conferences. I have always felt that our teams were better than they were given credit for and that the Pac-12 was a really tough league top to bottom. We shall see how true that is.

---

Nope

I want the 8 schools that left to be bottom feeders in their new conferences! I want UCLA & USC to be embarrassed on National TV on a weekly basis. I want coach prime to go away forever. Arizona & ASU can go back to partying and celebrating their 2 win teams. Oregon & Washington can watch as Oregon St. & Washington St. make the CFP as G5 members. Utah is meh.

---

What I want is for the whole system to crash and burn and for every school responsible for the ruin of college football and basketball to take a monumental financial bath in the upcoming years and to be honest, that is where I think this is heading. College football and basketball have been crappy on the field/court products compared to the pros for almost a century. You didn't watch because it was the best, much in the same way you didn't watch your high school play or your kids' or other local youth play because they were the best. You watched because games were the culmination of the hard work and training of young people who put on a jersey to proudly represent their community and their teammates by trying their best to play and win a game. That is why it wasn't necessary to have a playoff in football because what mattered was what you did on game day in your community, not what someone 3000 miles away thought of you. The game has been ruined by a bunch of people with money who try to buy success for their own massive egos instead of just enjoying the beauty of sports whether their college's jersey won that day or not. What is going on now is a few participants have lost all sense of proportion and priorities and they will succeed by buying kids who don't give a shyte about the school or their teammates but will (wisely) use the massive egos of those that will fund them to get ahead.

All these teams desperately moving into new conferences are going to fail miserably because that is their role here. Virtually none of them have the priorities (or lack thereof) to compete with a handful of schools in the midwest and southeast who will do anything for this. They are being brought in as fodder for those schools. It is hard to see how battling to be the third or fourth or tenth best in a system you have no chance of beating is going to attract the interest of new fans in these communities. College revenue sports are rapidly becoming a highly regional play that is losing national interest.

College revenue sports, outside of those handful of schools, are a nostalgia play on fumes. They are that restaurant that was special to you when you were young, but their food has long since become crappy and the only thing keeping it going is the sign on the door making people feel like they can still get something they can't. The people with that nostalgia are dying off and they aren't being replaced because what do they really have to offer young people who don't have that nostalgia? Much of the country is already realizing the lack of relevance of the activity. There is no there there.

The best, most spirited college football game I ever saw was in the last game of the year for each team, one team coming in 6-4, the other coming in 5-5. Full house. Loud. Both teams playing their asses off. Paid advertisement at a minimum. No one giving a damn what anyone outside that stadium and the two college communities thought of them. That simply doesn't exist anymore, and pretending like watching Double A football is the same is an exercise many will no longer undertake.

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ColoradoBear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

Go!Bears said:

---

"They are that restaurant that was special to you when you were young, but their food has long since become crappy and the only thing keeping it going is the sign on the door making people feel like they can still get something they can't"

Blondies…

---

That would be:

They are that restaurant that was special to you in college but you realize now their food was always crap but after several beers you didn't notice, but hey, for old time's sake let's have some bad pizza (and several beers still don't hurt).

---

Always crap?

---

ColoradoBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

Go!Bears said:

---

"They are that restaurant that was special to you when you were young, but their food has long since become crappy and the only thing keeping it going is the sign on the door making people feel like they can still get something they can't"

Blondies…

---

That would be:

They are that restaurant that was special to you in college but you realize now their food was always crap but after several beers you didn't notice, but hey, for old time's sake let's have some bad pizza (and several beers still don't hurt).

---

Always crap?

---

philly1121 said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

berserkeley said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

Apparently, the ACC's deal with ESPN allows ESPN to reduce the per team payout if the conference drops below 15 members so adding Calford helps protect the current payouts if FSU and Clemson ever decide to buy their way out.

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The exit fee is so high that the ACC will be in a good spot even if ESPN renegotiated

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That's not the point. It's not just about having a home; it's about having a home that pays $30M/team rather than being stuck in a home you cannot leave, but where ESPN can arbitrarily decide you are now worth $10M/team.

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$30 million? Where did you get that number? Base payout for us in ACC is $8-10 million tops. Its not known if we are part of the performance incentive equation or if we get a payout for increased travel. And we don't know when our base payout will escalate.

---

Quote:

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"That's the way the NCAA runs just about every other sport: think March Madness. It crowns a national champion in basketball, but all the conferences get to participate and there are multiple routes to getting in."

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DoubtfulBear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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sycasey said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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sycasey said:

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Bowlesman80 said:

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sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

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Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

It's not clear that Cal and Stanford would be available in the future. Another major conference could snap them up in a year. They might build their own conference out of the best remaining from the AAC and MWC and get locked into a different TV deal. Their athletic departments could implode entirely. They are free agents now.

---

Then we will get picked up like the 4 G5 schools into Big 12 after O/UT left. No chance we would prefer to stay behind in some hypothetical AAC/MWC hybrid conference. I get you all want to be optimistic but we really don't much leverage, now or later

---

That is true, but I think it is now or never. I don't think the ACC would think they could always get us later because our brand would be so damaged as to be no use to them later.

---

Our brand will always be a top academic school. But say you are right, that's even worse for us if SDSU and Fresno State are more attractive brands in 5 years when FSU and Clemson leave. Either way the ACC doesn't lose out by waiting around a few more years.

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

It's not clear that Cal and Stanford would be available in the future. Another major conference could snap them up in a year. They might build their own conference out of the best remaining from the AAC and MWC and get locked into a different TV deal. Their athletic departments could implode entirely. They are free agents now.

---

Then we will get picked up like the 4 G5 schools into Big 12 after O/UT left. No chance we would prefer to stay behind in some hypothetical AAC/MWC hybrid conference. I get you all want to be optimistic but we really don't much leverage, now or later

---

That is true, but I think it is now or never. I don't think the ACC would think they could always get us later because our brand would be so damaged as to be no use to them later.

---

Our brand will always be a top academic school. But say you are right, that's even worse for us if SDSU and Fresno State are more attractive brands in 5 years when FSU and Clemson leave. Either way the ACC doesn't lose out by waiting around a few more years.

---

I would argue that SDSU, FSU, or Cal after a couple years of being outside a major conference are all of no use to the ACC

They want a conference of perceived major conference teams.

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BearSD said:

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Quote:

---

"That's the way the NCAA runs just about every other sport: think March Madness. It crowns a national champion in basketball, but all the conferences get to participate and there are multiple routes to getting in."

---

College basketball is not a good example. 90% of the fans care only about March Madness, maybe a little about the small-school conference tournament finals hyped by ESPN, and nothing about the regular season that proceeds it.

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sycasey said:

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I fully agree with the comments that college sports are losing the regionalism and tradition that made them special and different from pro sports, and it's going to kill the whole thing if they don't put the brakes on it. I don't know how or when that happens; some larger entity needs to be able to regulate the highest level of college football and prevent the massive inequality between conferences we're currently seeing. I can't imagine the fans, as a group, like any of this.

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BearSD said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearSD said:

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Bowlesman80 said:

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BearSD said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

I can think of something that's worse than a fixed income with no COLA…

---

Our tentative offer is not much better than SMU's.

---

It is better than any situation Cal and Stanford will end up in if the ACC doesn't have the votes to make an offer.

---

I know some of you don't like to hear this, but it is better for you, but not necessarily better for Cal. There is a price point where cutting funding and playing at a lower level or not playing at all is a financially better deal. I don't claim to know where that price point is, but it is there. Honestly, I think a lot of you would want us to actually pay the ACC to allow us to join.

Additionally, you are entering a situation where everyone else is starting with more money than you, and at least some have more institutional and alumni support, so you are asking a program to compete with a lot fewer resources than their peers.

---

There is no price point at which playing football at a lower level is better for Cal and Stanford. It's not sustainable in the long term. Donor support would evaporate.

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DoubtfulBear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

Most of the ACC knows that they could be in trouble if their own conference implodes. FSU and Clemson should be safe enough. UNC and Miami, probably (though not guaranteed). The rest have to be looking over their shoulders. If they add more power schools then they have a decent chance of keeping things together even if two schools leave. That's the thinking here.

---

What's the urgency of adding us now? They can still do so after FSU and Clemson leave. It's not like we will have a better option anytime in the future.

---

It's not clear that Cal and Stanford would be available in the future. Another major conference could snap them up in a year. They might build their own conference out of the best remaining from the AAC and MWC and get locked into a different TV deal. Their athletic departments could implode entirely. They are free agents now.

---

Then we will get picked up like the 4 G5 schools into Big 12 after O/UT left. No chance we would prefer to stay behind in some hypothetical AAC/MWC hybrid conference. I get you all want to be optimistic but we really don't much leverage, now or later

---

That is true, but I think it is now or never. I don't think the ACC would think they could always get us later because our brand would be so damaged as to be no use to them later.

---

Our brand will always be a top academic school. But say you are right, that's even worse for us if SDSU and Fresno State are more attractive brands in 5 years when FSU and Clemson leave. Either way the ACC doesn't lose out by waiting around a few more years.

---

I would argue that SDSU, FSU, or Cal after a couple years of being outside a major conference are all of no use to the ACC

They want a conference of perceived major conference teams.

---

That's clearly false considering how relevant Cincinnati, Houston, UCF and BYU have been despite being stuck in G5

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

BearSD said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Bowlesman80 said:

---

"Having Notre Dame as an ally in this is huge. I will always remember that stood up for us when others were kicking us."

Almost has me forgetting the Immaculate Encroachment call.

And, honestly, I am quite sure there is ND's own self interest standing to gain, somehow. Still, it does make one pause with appreciation for those that stand for one when one is down.

---

ND wants to keep the ACC from falling apart, so they can remain independent. The fewer conferences there are, the more likely they'll be forced to join one in football. More schools in the ACC guards against that.

---

I suspected there was something self-serving behind ND's charity.
And the Gang of Four wants the ACC to implode, hence the roadblock.
Welp, two of the best universities in the world have been reduced to pawns in a power struggle.
I most angry at our leadership, which has, by ineptitude, neglect, and/or design, put us in this position.

---

Yes, though the only schools that REALLY want out of the ACC right now are FSU and Clemson. The NC schools probably are swayable (perhaps already have been swayed and we are just playing out the string).

---

In all honesty, I can't see how most of the ACC schools could be satisfied with the status quo with over a decade left on a contract that locks them into yesterday's Dollars. Accounting for higher than normal inflation, the ACC contract is like a fixed income with no COLA.

---

I can think of something that's worse than a fixed income with no COLA…

---

Our tentative offer is not much better than SMU's.

---

It is better than any situation Cal and Stanford will end up in if the ACC doesn't have the votes to make an offer.

---

I know some of you don't like to hear this, but it is better for you, but not necessarily better for Cal. There is a price point where cutting funding and playing at a lower level or not playing at all is a financially better deal. I don't claim to know where that price point is, but it is there. Honestly, I think a lot of you would want us to actually pay the ACC to allow us to join.

Additionally, you are entering a situation where everyone else is starting with more money than you, and at least some have more institutional and alumni support, so you are asking a program to compete with a lot fewer resources than their peers.

---

There is no price point at which playing football at a lower level is better for Cal and Stanford. It's not sustainable in the long term. Donor support would evaporate.

---

There has been purported insider information that agrees with you that playing at a lower level is not sustainable and the option at that point is shutting down. Don't know if that is true or not, but that only means that the price point equation is play or don't. It is also not sustainable to play with little conference money. Football is expensive and there is a point where what the ACC offers would be too low. Unless donors come through in a way they have not prior, we can't run a major conference program only on donations

---