So let's say Sabrina Ionescu's professional goal is basketball. She wants to play professionally and then move into coaching.

In what way do these academic rankings impact that career goal? Now if she wanted to be a college professor or a scientist or mathematical innovator, these kinds of rankings come into play, but in terms of basketball, what she would need would be:

1) A coach with a proven record of success in developing professional players; and
2) A coach who can help her through his or her connections once she quits playing.

I don't think LG is a slacker in either of these categories, but to impose overall academic standards on a specific field just doesn't make sense. Just as aspiring film directors would choose USC over Cal for good reasons, so other students in other fields would choose (or not choose) Cal over other options.

And from all indications, Sabrina wants to pursue basketball as a career ...

ClayK;842572843 said:

---

So let's say Sabrina Ionescu's professional goal is basketball. She wants to play professionally and then move into coaching.

In what way do these academic rankings impact that career goal? Now if she wanted to be a college professor or a scientist or mathematical innovator, these kinds of rankings come into play, but in terms of basketball, what she would need would be:

1) A coach with a proven record of success in developing professional players; and
2) A coach who can help her through his or her connections once she quits playing.

I don't think LG is a slacker in either of these categories, but to impose overall academic standards on a specific field just doesn't make sense. Just as aspiring film directors would choose USC over Cal for good reasons, so other students in other fields would choose (or not choose) Cal over other options.

And from all indications, Sabrina wants to pursue basketball as a career ...

---

Clearly, there are successful people in life who have gone to all kinds of different schools, and some not to any school at all. But I would still advise a young person to go to the best academic school they can get into. It will likely provide a few more options and opportunities when first starting out, and especially if they happen to change their minds about majors and/or careers along the way.

annarborbear;842572852 said:

---

Clearly, there are successful people in life who have gone to all kinds of different schools, and some not to any school at all. But I would still advise a young person to go to the best academic school they can get into. It will likely provide a few more options and opportunities when first starting out, and especially if they happen to change their minds about majors and/or careers along the way.

---

+1

I don't know anyone whose life unfolded as planned in high school. IMHO the greatest benefit of a good education is becoming aware of options, opportunities, and possibilities.

clay, the wbna is not the nba in terms of being set for life financially

coach gottlieb is an ivy league grad, well educated people are at a significant advantage in life over those with mediocre educations

Shocky1;842573148 said:

---

clay, the wbna is not the nba in terms of being set for life financially

coach gottlieb is an ivy league grad, well educated people are at a significant advantage in life over those with mediocre educations

---

Are you really suggesting the hypothetical of someone interested in studying film would be better off going to Cal over USC or UCLA? Or someone interested in equine sciences should pick Cal over UC Davis or Texas A&M?

I didn't go to an ivy league school and didn't fall in love with Cal until after I moved to the Bay Area well after I graduated, but the mediocre education I received in my field of study provided me with a better range of real world experience that I needed to get where I am in my job than I would have gotten at Berkeley because Cal doesn't specialize in it. I would've just been an even smarter guy trying to learn on the job instead of a smart guy ready to step in and contribute.

Do we even know what Sabrina is looking for in a school choice, or is all of this academic talk just speculation that we should automatically get her since we're Cal? If that's the case, people on the men's board should have been telling Jaylen Brown that the only thing that made sense was to go to Kentucky

For most people, having an idea of what we want to do for our career at age 17 is pretty remote, but for some exceptional talents it's different. Elite scientists and mathematicians and dancers and so on can identify their passion and talent long before others can, and follow their bliss. Of course, some get derailed ...

Sabrina Ionescu and the other 20 or so elite players in the Class of 2016 have a reason to believe their careers might be basketball -- and by career, I mean more than playing in the WNBA. A career in basketball is viable for talented players, as they can easily move into coaching and/or teaching after they quit playing professionally. Since we're talking about Sabrina, I'll use her, but the example could apply to any elite player (Brittany Boyd, Katie Lou Samuelson, etc.): Barring disaster, and with normal expected improvement, she will make close to $200,000 a year until her early 30s. At that point, she can transition into coaching or another sports-related field and have a nice career.

Whether she goes to Cal or Oregon or UConn or UCLA will have little impact on that career arc, again barring disaster. Of course, going to Cal or UCLA would give her more options if she decided she wanted to shift careers, but she's an exceptional individual, and the usual rules do not apply.

I agree with Clay, if it were all about the academics we would have all the Furd fans on here telling us how inferior we are to them

califan;842573457 said:

---

I agree with Clay, if it were all about the academics we would have all the Furd fans on here telling us how inferior we are to them

---

califan, reread carefully the us world 2015 collegiate rankings i posted on this thread yesterday, cal is the #3 ranked university in the world & stanford is ranked #4

clay k, i sincerely hope you don't work with our youth with your wonderful advice that academically gifted students should pass on free rides to harvard if cal state fremont offers their interested area of study...if you told me that you graduated from an academically mediocre school i would believe you

Shocky1;842573585 said:

---

clay k, i sincerely hope you don't work with our youth with your wonderful advice that academically gifted students should pass on free rides to harvard if cal state fremont offers their interested area of study

---

I know a guy, now in his thirties, who enrolled at San Jose State because the field of his dreams was offered there. In his first year he realized he had made a major error. After that year he transferred to a community college, then finished his degree at Cal in a totally different area.

I'm not close friends with anyone who has Sabrina's level of talent so I can't say I'm sure how she should proceed. But if basketball is her only priority why Oregon? Why not UConn? Why not Notre Dame? Why not Cal? And I wouldn't want to have the course of my life depend on healthy knees.

Quote:

---

if you told me that you graduated from an academically mediocre school i would believe you

---

I was in high school with Clay and I can testify he's bright and well educated. Also, like Shocky1, he's not afraid to share his opinions.

Shocky1;842573585 said:

---

califan, reread carefully the us world 2015 collegiate rankings i posted on this thread yesterday, cal is the #3 ranked university in the world & stanford is ranked #4

clay k, i sincerely hope you don't work with our youth with your wonderful advice that academically gifted students should pass on free rides to harvard if cal state fremont offers their interested area of study...if you told me that you graduated from an academically mediocre school i would believe you

---

Shocky1, try to READ (for the first time apparently) past the headline of the ranking you so magnanimously provided to Ms. Ionescu & the board (and don't be a dumb azz#)....

Really, I would think someone who managed to graduate from such a prestigious institution should possess a tad more academic curiousity and reading comprehension. Your rankings only "focus specifically on schools' academic research and reputation overall and not on their separate undergraduate or graduate programs." So unless Sabrina has a strong interest in following you into higher academia, these rankings are of little relevance. Just one click away, you could have actually gleaned a little insight into the process (I personally think that the bibliometric indicator is going to clinch the deal for Ionescu) instead of just jacking up your screen shot and airballing it:
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/articles/methodology

I find it a bit amusing (also troubling) that so many seem to put so much weight on these rankings - but Shocky, perhaps you were confused by US News' proliferation of published rankings (so many because they're so profitable - i.e., a sucker born every....). The more commonly cited top national univ ranking has Stanford #4 and Cal all the way down at 20. I assume you can do the math on that one (even 7-11 supervisors need basic math skills, right?) but even in the global univ ranking you posted, the bias towards size and quantity indicates that the quality of Stanford's academic research would rank it ahead of Cal if they were similarly sized.

Of course many people view the rankings as flawed and controversial, but as always it's your option to form your opinion on as little or as much sound evidence as you like. At some point you seemed to at least pay lip service to the actual quality of education that someone like Sabrina might receive - but neither the national nor the global rankings focus primarily on undergraduate education. US News even has a best undergraduate teaching ranking, but Cal does not appear (limited to top 20). Or maybe Sabrina should just go to Pomona... http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#tab:rank

I sincerely hope you put more thought and effort into your studies while in college -- apparently Cal could still use the help in the rankings.

Shocky1;842573148 said:

---

clay, the wbna is not the nba in terms of being set for life financially

coach gottlieb is an ivy league grad, well educated people are at a significant advantage in life over those with mediocre educations

---

As Clay already corrected you, the bigger money for women players is not really from the WNBA (though from just the WNBA a young player probably makes more pro rated for a full year's work than most recent Cal grads). Also, very few Cal (or any!) grads are set for life financially after the span of a typical WNBA career... if Sabrina wants to go into coaching or other sports-related field, a successful WNBA career would then likely give her more than enough advantage - even if she went to Podunk U.

A Cal degree is definitely not a lottery ticket. As annarborbear pointed out, generally speaking a degree from an academically reputable school can provide some (and potentially important) advantages at the margins. But recruits should not be making their individual decisions based on general reputations, rankings, etc., and there are a lot of rational reasons why a less prestigious academic school may be a better fit.

Of course there is at least one Oregon grad who did win the lottery and has donated so much of it back to OU athletics that their facilities are tough for Cal to compete with in recruiting, even with its Golden Ticket degree. Maybe instead of ranting on message boards, a Cal lottery winner should just step up.... Anyone??

stu;842573611 said:

---

I know a guy, now in his thirties, who enrolled at San Jose State because the field of his dreams was offered there. In his first year he realized he had made a major error. After that year he transferred to a community college, then finished his degree at Cal in a totally different area.

I'm not close friends with anyone who has Sabrina's level of talent so I can't say I'm sure how she should proceed. But if basketball is her only priority why Oregon? Why not UConn? Why not Notre Dame? Why not Cal? And I wouldn't want to have the course of my life depend on healthy knees.





I was in high school with Clay and I can testify he's bright and well educated. Also, like Shocky1, he's not afraid to share his opinions.

---

I do know the daughter of a family friend who chose a more prestigious school for academic reasons over others better positioned to win a national championship, and she was pretty sure she made the wrong choice. She said she would have had a better college and pro career and a better overall 4 year college experience, and thought she could have gotten a perfectly fine education at a lesser academic-ranked school. Even though her WNBA career was cut short due to injuries, all of the quite successful sports related jobs she has held since would have been just as if not more accessible.

So, as just one example, the player's fit on the team and with the coach, and their success, can be a huge reason she chooses a certain school... and it's a big enough part of her overall college time that if she's unhappy or less happy than she could have been, the academic/career/social sides (or whatever) can suffer - even if those were supposed strengths of the school.

I think it's always going to be partly a crapshoot; academic advantages should certainly be considered, but the college selection process is usually not an all-other-things-being-equal decision, so other factors including personal preferences (e.g. wants to be close to/far from home) have to be considered... sometimes they may be quirky, sometimes recruits may not even quite know their own preferences yet -- so certainly speculating outsiders are going to have a tough time predicting the outcomes. Alumni and fans seem to want to think recruiting is a science, but it's far from it - just too much unpredictability and luck involved.

really, i'm really glad that you know a friend of a friend who went to san quentin & now is more successful than a cal grad you know, that's really insightful

i dunno, maybe sabrina should go to san quentin

don't be a dumb azz#

Shocky1;842573705 said:

---

really, i'm really glad that you know a friend of a friend who went to san quentin & now is more successful than a cal grad you know, that's really insightful

i dunno, maybe sabrina should go to san quentin

don't be a dumb azz#

---

Man, you can be such an idiot sometimes.
The person actually took time to write a cogent post and this is what you sling back?
It gets old, Shocky.
I wonder.... do you post photos of hot men on this women's board?
And which Pac12 women's teams' coaches are criminals?
Wait, don't answer that...

concordtom;842574077 said:

---

Man, you can be such an idiot sometimes.
The person actually took time to write a cogent post and this is what you sling back?
It gets old, Shocky.
I wonder.... do you post photos of hot men on this women's board?
And which Pac12 women's teams' coaches are criminals?
Wait, don't answer that...

---

Thanks Concordtom. What's funny is that he can't help embarrassing himself even though I just got done teaching him that reading is fundamental....

Shocky, are you trying to singlehandedly prove that you can get a Cal degree without being able to read? You just got called out for your lack of reading comprehension and instead of just admitting to being a dumbazz (wouldn't be the first time, am I right?), you double down only to fail even more hilariously.

It's even funnier because you weren't able to muster a comeback attempt in response to my first 2 posts (which were the only ones actually addressed to you), then thought you had a really insightful point to make about my response to Stu -- but even when you know people are questioning your intelligence and education (the very subject you were initially claiming to value... starting to appreciate the irony here?), somehow can't manage to read and understand 3 simple sentences. Was that not a requirement for passing freshman English back when you were in school? :facepalm

If you can't follow your own advice to reread carefully those 3 sentences, or still couldn't understand, let me try again and I'll use easier words just for you: The daughter (not friend - try to keep facts straight when writing; this will help improve your future job prospects) of my friend chose the better school, a school that is ahead of Cal in your beloved rankings. It turned out that she regretted not going to one of the lower-ranked schools because her basketball career was worse and she realized that the big name school on her resume wasn't necessary for her success.

(I didn't compare her success to any cal grads, or even mention a cal grad I know -- but I'm pretty sure she's more successful than at least one I can think of :rolleyes

I dunno, I would say you should just go back to the men's board where you might at least have a little recruiting info to add - but your entertainment value has been too high lately... as long as your example of how the rankings don't preclude dumb azzes at Cal doesn't scare off recruits.

the fix is in, eddy ionescu will walk on at oregon, criminal dana altman is gonna save the scholly for the next sexual predator with elite basketball skills that becomes available

oregon is a semi professional sports program that is loosely affiliated with an almost mediocre school

Shocky1;842574111 said:

---

the fix is in, eddy ionescu will walk on at oregon, criminal dana altman is gonna save the scholly for the next sexual predator with elite basketball skills that becomes available

oregon is a semi professional sports program that is loosely affiliated with an almost mediocre school

---

Shocky- your posts have been nothing but cringe worthy regarding this matter. Grow up, act like an adult, and be happy for the kid. You are making Cal fans look like immature children

Thanks, Stu ... I'm guessing I know who you are ...

For the record, I have a degree in history from UCSB and a degree in philosophy from Cal. Some graduate work in philosophy (not at Cal). As far as I could tell, the source of neither degree made any difference in my ability to get hired.

Agree...and. also, maybe wait until its a done deal to whine?

Thanks, Stu ... I'm guessing I know who you are ...

For the record, I have a degree in history from UCSB and a degree in philosophy from Cal. Some graduate work in philosophy (not at Cal). As far as I could tell, the source of neither degree made any difference in my ability to get hired.

Shocky1;842574111 said:

---

the fix is in, eddy ionescu will walk on at oregon, criminal dana altman is gonna save the scholly for the next sexual predator with elite basketball skills that becomes available

oregon is a semi professional sports program that is loosely affiliated with an almost mediocre school

---

Let's try this a different way. Cal is a great fit for many student athletes. Missy Franklin is quite prepared to tell anyone she had the best time of her life at Cal. But its not a fit for everyone. Hopefully Sabrina sees the fit, and picks cal.

And before getting holier than thou, just recall how JT recruited a recent five star WR. Everyone does this.

Landing a local star with national prominence, like Sabrina, should stimulate attendance, particularly, when she teams with other former local HS stars like Green and Cowling, as well as Thomas and Mosely.

Maybe more Asians will come to WBB games to see Chen Yue and Natalie Chou if she chooses Cal.

orindabear74;842574341 said:

---

Maybe more Asians will come to WBB games to see Chen Yue and Natalie Chou if she chooses Cal.

---

Sarcasm I am assuming?

CalFanatic;842574360 said:

---

Sarcasm I am assuming?

---

I don't think it is sarcasm. There is some truth in what OrindaB says especially if Chen Yue gets some minutes. It would just be a bump for those years though. Jeremy Lin was an example of this in NY.

Max was such an attraction for the MBB team. He helped draw both Chinese and non-Chinese fans to support Cal basketball. There has been a solid contingent of Asian-American Cal basketball fans--both students and non-students for a long time. Chen, and, hopefully, Chou, will help build that fan base for WBB because, unlike Max, Chan and Natalie will be at Cal for four years.

http://www.dailyemerald.com/2015/10/19/oregon-ducks-receive-verbal-commitment-from-eddy-ionescu/

I will just say the obvious needs no comment. Hope he has a great career there and his sister decides to have a great career here.

Shocky1;842574616 said:

---

http://www.dailyemerald.com/2015/10/19/oregon-ducks-receive-verbal-commitment-from-eddy-ionescu/

---

Ok, I don't like a lot of those comments. Nothing from a D1 school and the WBB assistant coach puts him in touch with the Oregon coach and boom? The situation is... Strange. Happy for him and hope his sister has a great career here.

orindabear74;842574341 said:

---

Maybe more Asians will come to WBB games to see Chen Yue and Natalie Chou if she chooses Cal.

---

This could be true. There are many Asian leagues and they love basketball.

On a related note...

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/baker-column19/

CalFanatic;842574630 said:

---

Ok, I don't like a lot of those comments. Nothing from a D1 school and the WBB assistant coach puts him in touch with the Oregon coach and boom? The situation is... Strange. Happy for him and hope his sister has a great career here.

---

Right. I'm going to re-order some of the sentences so it tells the story a bit more clearly to my understanding.

[INDENT]
Sabrina Ionescu is ranked No. 4 nationally by espnW and has narrowed her options to California, Oregon, Oregon State and Texas.

"We would like to stay together," Eddy said. "We've been together since we were small, but all in all, it's her decision where she wants to go. I'm supportive; I think all of her schools are still in the picture. We've definitely talked about it.

Eddy Ionescu said women's basketball assistant coach Mark Campbell "really helped me out with getting connected" to the men's program.


"I didn't really feel a difference from being the No. 1 player in the country or a walk-on," Ionescu said. "All the coaches treated me the same as their recruits. I love all the coaching staff."
"I'm still in shock," Eddy said. "I'm just so happy. I can't put it into words. My dream, as a kid, was playing Div. I basketball. All the hard work has paid off."
Ionescu is the fourth member of Altman's 2016 class. Other Oregon commits include: M.J. Cage, Payton Pritchard and Keith Smith.
Ionescu will work his way toward a three-year scholarship "if everything goes well." He turned down scholarship offers from Hawaii-Pacific, Chico State and other small schools in the Northern California area.
His decision could potentially affect his twin sister's college decision.
[/INDENT]

Sorry, but guys getting offers from Chico don't get scholarships at Oregon. I'm sure the coaching staff is fine having him there for 4 years as a walk-on, but that's as far as it goes. I'm sure it was no sweat for the basketball coaches to do the women's coaches a solid by having Eddy be a walk-on.
Best of luck. Could end up being a good deal for him.

This is a really good article talking about the experience of a walk on at Kentucky.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4651014-kentucky-basketball-how-to-walk-on-tod-lanter-john-calipari-willie-cauley-stein-nerlens-noel

Take away:
He's not going to be treated the same as a scholarship player.
He's going to have to work his butt off to stick with the program, be a leader by example in all ways.
He could end up having a great experience that is well worth it. Just understand your role and do it.

"the strengths of this university is that it's the #1 ranked public university in the world...if that doesn't mean something when we're recruiting, we're not recruiting the right guy...it's that simple...if that doesn't ring true to you, then we're wasting our time"

-cal football coach sonny dykes

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/pac12/2015/10/21/cal-bears-football-grades-academics-sonny-dykes/74314368/



50 year decision#

Looks like Sabrina will be on the visit with Kat Tudor. Though Kat has committed to OSU, she is actually making her official visit today hmmmmmmmmmm?