ClayK;842584843 said:

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Note the graduation rates just released today: Cal is last among Power 5 schools for football.

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These figures are for students who enrolled from 2005 through 2008, all recruited by Jeff Tedford. He was fired in part for the poor academic performance of his teams. Yes, it's an embarrassment, but at least Cal as an institution perceived the problem and took steps to fix it.

BTW where did we get Tedford? From Oregon!

stu;842584874 said:

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These figures are for students who enrolled from 2005 through 2008, all recruited by Jeff Tedford. He was fired in part for the poor academic performance of his teams. Yes, it's an embarrassment, but at least Cal as an institution perceived the problem and took steps to fix it.

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The bigger question is why are we releasing these today-------2005 to 2008 is history. Why not 2010 to 2015 or 2011 to 2015. This is absurd and a cruel punishment for our past sins. I want to see if we have improved (I have heard we have) and how much.

Oregon and Brandon Austin are being discussed on ESPN's OTL right now. It is not a flattering report of Oregon.

OdontoBear66;842584909 said:

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The bigger question is why are we releasing these today-------2005 to 2008 is history. Why not 2010 to 2015 or 2011 to 2015.

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Players get 6 years after enrolling to be counted as graduating, so 2009 would be the most recent class possible to evaluate. Then to get a 4-year cohort the 2008, 2007, and 2006 classes would have to be included. Given the speed of the NCAA I can understand why they're another year behind.

The only more recent data are grade averages, which I believe have improved considerably at Cal in recent years.

annarborbear;842584852 said:

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Has anyone actually seen Eddy Ionescu play? Is it credible that he could possibly become a PAC12 D1 player some day? Or is this move by the Oregon coaches simply that transparent?

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I have seen Eddy play, and he's pretty good. But I think it would be a stretch to consider him a Pac-12 player.

And remember, Oregon always has a bunch of walk-ons, which means pretty much anyone with a decent pedigree who shows up on campus and proves he can hang with the players in some manner will be considered. And my understanding is Oregon doesn't have "preferred walk-ons," that is, those who are waiting for a scholarship to open up. So I'm pretty sure Eddy is among a handful of kids who could announce they are walk-ons at Oregon, and there's no guarantee that Dana Altman even knows who they are at this point.

Now did it hurt his chances to try out to be a walk-on that he was Sabrina's brother? I'm guessing no. But my feeling is that the son of the chair of the French department would get the same consideration ...

why can't we ask coach martin to extend a pref walk on offer to eddie? did he sign? is it binding?

ClayK;842584843 said:

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Shocky, I don't mind responding to posters who respond rationally, but that doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Still, I think offering a scholarship to a convicted rapist (if indeed that happened) would be wrong. I don't think offering a walk-on opportunity to a relative of an elite player is unethical -- college sports are a big, big business, and Cal is right in the mix. Note the graduation rates just released today: Cal is last among Power 5 schools for football. That would be last, as the opposite from first.

Now, clearly some schools are worse than others in the slime category, but as long as Cal is last in Power 5 schools for graduation rates in the most important sport, I think a lower profile when it comes to casting aspersions might be in order.

And by the way, I also have a degree from Berkeley.

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Comparing graduation rates is flawed. Cal is a more difficult school to get through than most others. It just is. And I've heard enough "stories" to know that some schools "graduate" football players who didn't really earn their grades. What the low graduation rate tells me is that we did not do a good enough job identifying individuals who could reasonably make their way through Cal and/or did not do a good enough job of helping them manage the rigorous schedule that comes with D1 athletics. I don't think we will ever be at the top but it would be nice if the graduation rate for student-athletes mirrored those of the general student body. To me, that is a better measure of how well an athletic program is doing with its student athletes.

As for Sabrina's brother, if getting her brother to attend Oregon gets her to attend Oregon, good for them. In my mind, that means she wasn't a good fit for Cal as a school or the basketball team. I don't have a problem with it at all.

As for Altman's ethics...yikes. I don't know how anyone could possibly be proud of the fact that he represents their school. I would not want him as a coach at Cal as there are enough examples of his willingness to recruit young men with questionable backgrounds. At some point, you really have to wonder how far people are willing to go to win a few basketball games. For him to play the "I didn't know" card is also lame. As the leader of a program, it is your job to know.

Finally, EVERY school makes exceptions for students who would not have gotten in but for some non-academic reason (e.g., athletics, connections). This happens at the Ivy Leagues too, though to a lesser extent than others.

sheki;842585148 said:

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why can't we ask coach martin to extend a pref walk on offer to eddie? did he sign? is it binding?

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He can

MoragaBear;842585231 said:

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Walk-ons need pretty strong gpa's

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At Oregon?

stu;842585270 said:

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At Oregon?

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No. No GPA required to attend UO. However, they usually require a pulse. There are a few special admits though.

I thought that I read that her brother had an excellent gpa. Btw, are they twins?

GO BEARS!

GOCAL73;842585302 said:

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No. No GPA required to attend UO. However, they usually require a pulse. There are a few special admits though.

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Without pulse? Nah, that would be ASU

OdontoBear66;842585347 said:

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Without pulse? Nah, that would be ASU

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I stand corrected.

GOCAL73;842584827 said:

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Wife, I know you are connected at both Cal and Furd, so please be specific. Tell us which recruited walk on with no other PAC 12 offer has Cal or Furd recruited in order to secure the services of their Top 5 sibling? Maybe the facts you share can win the day and put this argument to rest. So far, those who say everyone does it have been long on accusations but short on evidence. Be a game changer. Dish the facts.

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I'm going to be more vague. But in football we have done package deals with school mates, given a sibling a scholie when we likely would not have (this happened several times), relatives of Keenan Allen though in defense of JT they played, and we do give preferred walk on status in manny sports to donor children, though they need to have the potential to contribute. There is some other stuff, but it might be apparent for those that follow the non-revenue sports.

Furd its rampant. Just start looking at rosters and see all the relatives on teams. In one case it ended tragically. Private schools is happens a lot. BTW, one team it doesn't work for is women's basketball. Mary Lou went to UConn.

Sam was on several national teams prior to Stanford.

bobbk;842585469 said:

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Sam was on several national teams prior to Stanford.

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Am I missing something? Who is Sam?

wifeisafurd;842585381 said:

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I'm going to be more vague. But in football we have done package deals with school mates, given a sibling a scholie when we likely would not have (this happened several times), relatives of Keenan Allen though in defense of JT they played, and we do give preferred walk on status in manny sports to donor children, though they need to have the potential to contribute. There is some other stuff, but it might be apparent for those that follow the non-revenue sports.

Furd its rampant. Just start looking at rosters and see all the relatives on teams. In one case it ended tragically. Private schools is happens a lot. BTW, one team it doesn't work for is women's basketball. Mary Lou went to UConn.

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Being vague. That's the problem with people making posts claiming all schools use slimy recruiting tactics. If you are going to make accusations then back them up with facts. Otherwise it's just BS. For all of Shocky's over-the-top claims, he has done a good job of listing factual accounts of criminal and slimy incidents at Oregon,which you can find in his monster thread.
As for the NC connection, let's try a little reality check. All of the NC bunch were recruited D1 prospects including Maynard. Some critics like to omit the fact that Tedford recruited Zack in high school for a time. Zack then started at a D1 program before transferring to Cal. The other four were all heavily recruited by multiple high level D1 programs. So, how does this situation compare to the Sabrina/Eddy situation where one is a D2 prospect and the other is a D1 Top 5 prospect?
I'm still waiting for someone to back up your accusations comparing Cal to Oregon. Fact is that not all programs resort to slime ball recruiting tactics. Somehow, maybe it is because we are Cal fans, we want to believe the worst about athletic program. We are no Oregon and thank goodness for that!

MoragaBear;842585231 said:

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Walk-ons need pretty strong gpa's

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This is absolutely correct. But non-athltes need ridiculous (not just strong) grades and test scores to get into Cal these days. I probably couldn't get into Cal these days, and I finished with close to a 4.0 at Cal. BTW, and this is related to another thread as well, I noticed Sonny picked-up another recruit with a 3.8 plus GPA. Very impressive, especially when you consider the time commitment for a player in a top high school football program like this player was in. But that 3.8 plus still is way below the average GPA for Cal admits these days. And the walk ons still have to show some ability to be able to compete. This is not a give away to donors.

OBear073akaSMFan;842585475 said:

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Am I missing something? Who is Sam?

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Wifeisafurd probably meant Katie Lou and not Mary Lou.

Bobbie K mentioned Sam. I am guessing he means the same person, Katie Lou [U]Sam[/U]uelson

Now we both were referring to Sam Wopat.

MoragaBear;842585231 said:

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Walk-ons need pretty strong gpa's

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Not really, minimum UC eligibility for normal admit

iminoc;842585551 said:

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Wifeisafurd probably meant Katie Lou and not Mary Lou.

Bobbie K mentioned Sam. I am guessing he means the same person, Katie Lou [U]Sam[/U]uelson

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yes Katie Lou for me. BTW, I will refer you guys to some of the more tuned in posters who said in Sept. 2014 that Furd took the less talented and low GPA (for Furd) Karlie with an eye towards Katie Lou. How Altman like (btw, Tara is nothing like Altman, this was a snarky remark). Some irony, when you goto college that has an average GPA around 3.6, you can be less than average and still make the conference frosh academic team.

iminoc;842585551 said:

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Wifeisafurd probably meant Katie Lou and not Mary Lou.

Bobbie K mentioned Sam. I am guessing he means the same person, Katie Lou [U]Sam[/U]uelson

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meant Katie Lou. BTW, what GPA does it take to get into Furd? Is your sister the top ranked player, and your other sister play for us? (And FWIW, when the average GPA at your college is around 3.6, you can sill make an all conference academic frosh team).

wifeisafurd;842585921 said:

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meant Katie Lou. BTW, what GPA does it take to get into Furd? Is your sister the top ranked player, and your other sister play for us? (And FWIW, when the average GPA at your college is around 3.6, you can sill make an all conference academic frosh team).

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Bonnie Samuelson was a starter, Karlie has started and will probably start this season. Neither were recruited to get their younger sister (though that would have been nice) and both have been valuable players. Sam Wopat was not as highly ranked as a VB recruit as her twin sister but she was still a very good recruit. Twins being a package deal is not exactly unusual, and can you blame them?

chimera;842586129 said:

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Bonnie Samuelson was a starter, Karlie has started and will probably start this season. Neither were recruited to get their younger sister (though that would have been nice) and both have been valuable players. Sam Wopat was not as highly ranked as a VB recruit as her twin sister but she was still a very good recruit. Twins being a package deal is not exactly unusual, and can you blame them?

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Your forgetting the academics qualifications as well as basketball qualifications in your statement.

Karlie was a top recruit and a 4. Student. Now she is team captain.

I hope (Sabrina) Ionescu isn't a big football fan.

bobbk;842586185 said:

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Karlie was a top recruit and a 4. Student. Now she is team captain.

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I'm surprised a 6 point/game junior, who only started half her games last season is a captain, but then I just saw how young Furd really is going to be this year. There are worst situations I could mention at Furd, but a year plus ago folks were posting about the players Furd passed over to get Karlie and were not happy campers. There was an inference that they did so to increase their chances with her no. 1 recruit younger sister. Karlie is playing and had done deceitly academically.

Karlie was rated as high as #25 nationally IIRC and was a WBCA AA (20 selected) out of HS.

Karlie was a big reason Stanford beat UConn last year - her defense shut down Mosqueda-Lewis for most of the game.
I think Kaleena only had 4 points with only 5 minutes left in regulation. At least that is what I remember most about the game (yeah, I was there wearing Cal Blue) that and the play of UConn's Nurse, McNabb was going crazy in the stands.

wifeisafurd;842587344 said:

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I'm surprised a 6 point/game junior, who only started half her games last season is a captain, but then I just saw how young Furd really is going to be this year. There are worst situations I could mention at Furd, but a year plus ago folks were posting about the players Furd passed over to get Karlie and were not happy campers. There was an inference that they did so to increase their chances with her no. 1 recruit younger sister. Karlie is playing and had done deceitly academically.

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People were posting about the players who got passed over and were unhappy? That would be Stanford people I assume because why would anyone else care, so I can very safely say simply not true, 100% false. She was a top 100 recruit (I don't remember all the various rankings) in a five person recruiting class, which is quite large for Stanford. She was not the lowest ranked recruit in that class. So how could anyone have been passed over for her? I know the recruiting and nobody was. I don't know how you would know her GPA, test scores, AP classes, etc., certainly not enough to imply she was given a gift admit to get her sister. She's been in the rotation pretty much all her career. She has started plenty of games. The two "situations" you mention in this thread are not examples of kids getting getting an offer to get a sibling. Of the sports I follow I don't see any of that happening, not in the nefarious manner you seem to imply. They don't bend the admissions rules to get top recruits so why would they bend them to get the sister of a top recruit? Doesn't make sense.

GOCAL73;842585515 said:

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Being vague. That's the problem with people making posts claiming all schools use slimy recruiting tactics. If you are going to make accusations then back them up with facts. Otherwise it's just BS. For all of Shocky's over-the-top claims, he has done a good job of listing factual accounts of criminal and slimy incidents at Oregon,which you can find in his monster thread.
As for the NC connection, let's try a little reality check. All of the NC bunch were recruited D1 prospects including Maynard. Some critics like to omit the fact that Tedford recruited Zack in high school for a time. Zack then started at a D1 program before transferring to Cal. The other four were all heavily recruited by multiple high level D1 programs. So, how does this situation compare to the Sabrina/Eddy situation where one is a D2 prospect and the other is a D1 Top 5 prospect?
I'm still waiting for someone to back up your accusations comparing Cal to Oregon. Fact is that not all programs resort to slime ball recruiting tactics. Somehow, maybe it is because we are Cal fans, we want to believe the worst about athletic program. We are no Oregon and thank goodness for that!

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I didn't want to do this, and Moraga can censor. but here goes some less vagueness. We gave a scholie away to get a lineman from Sacramento (interestingly, the guy plays), we gave a player at a long beach school to get a WR, we gave a scholie to an out of shape son of a high school coach whose school we get players from, we told a five star player we would take his little brother, and fwiw, the little brother actually did play, and I'm just getting started. Cal did lot's of package deals during the JT era. Sorry, but it happened. Seriously, its time for us to stop being self-righteous. We were the school thought bought a player a few years prior.

And for the Furdies, new Coach Harbaugh starts by finding ways to get tight ends off his team who don't cut it, and needs a tight end. Will some former 5 star TE is looking to transfer, so let's offer and get his 2 star brother who will sit on the bench until garbage time. Need a place kicker, offer his brother. Lot more where that comes from.

As for the SEC, its far worse and you can do your own research.

The Allen thing was a whole different matter, and well, you can let Shocky tell you the gory details. (BTW Keenan Allen is a class act and a great Bear.)

Again, Moraga fee free to censor.

wifeisafurd;842588014 said:

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I didn't want to do this, and Moraga can censor. but here goes some less vagueness. We gave a scholie away to get a lineman from Sacramento (interestingly, the guy plays), we gave a player at a long beach school to get a WR, we gave a scholie to an out of shape son of a high school coach whose school we get players from, we told a five star player we would take his little brother, and fwiw, the little brother actually did play, and I'm just getting started. Cal did lot's of package deals during the JT era. Sorry, but it happened. Seriously, its time for us to stop being self-righteous. We were the school thought bought a player a few years prior.

And for the Furdies, new Coach Harbaugh starts by finding ways to get tight ends off his team who don't cut it, and needs a tight end. Will some former 5 star TE is looking to transfer, so let's offer and get his 2 star brother who will sit on the bench until garbage time. Need a place kicker, offer his brother. Lot more where that comes from.

As for the SEC, its far worse and you can do your own research.

The Allen thing was a whole different matter, and well, you can let Shocky tell you the gory details. (BTW Keenan Allen is a class act and a great Bear.)

Again, Moraga fee free to censor.

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I agree with the self-righteous comment! I love that we all get excited about giving a scholarship to a 3.5 student-athlete, and how they are a perfect fit for Cal, yet ignore the fact that they wouldn't get even a sniff as a regular student applicant. Preferential status, academic compromise-indignation anyone?
Nick Kerr transferred in as a grad student for the men, and isn't going to get more than a half of basketball cumulative playing time...but as a walk-on, no harm done (and he has some locker room value) but his last name didn't hurt? Like there aren't other kids who would have a nice affect on the leadership etc. of a team (and maybe played up a level from USD)?
You play within the rules...its big time college basketball. You don't like how the sausage is made, then go watch D-III sports...