82gradDLSdad said:
calbear93 said:
82gradDLSdad said:
calbear93 said:
SFCityBear said:
82gradDLSdad said:
calbear93 said:
movielover said:
The Wall Street UniParty is pushing already-over Ron DeSanctimonious.
DeSantis is done. Running to the right of Trump wins over no one.
Yep, he already lost me. Maybe the left media had a hand in this with the relentless amount of 'look what Ron did now stories' but he sure seemed to get more outlandish the longer he had the spotlight. Started to remind me of Trump. That's why I commented on the Vivek rapping post. I really don't want to see Vivek turning into a clown show now that he has a bit of momentum. I want my president to act presidential.
I fear that those days are gone now. Not sure we can resurrect them.
Someone like Tim Scott, Chris Sununu, Glenn Youngkin, and even someone more liberal like Michael Bennet. All about business, governing and leading without needless mudslinging.
I liked Tim Scott and my dismissing of him may be a bit unfair but when I heard him end a campaign speech with, "Can I get an Amen", he lost me. I really want my politicians to keep religion out of their decision making. I'm no constitutional scholar but I think that's in there, right?
The others I haven't listened to yet. Vivek talks about faith being part of what he thinks folks are missing and I hope he goes no further than that word. I'm getting picky in my old age.
You are misinterpreting the establishment clause. Every politician has the right to practice and promote their own faith like everyone else. The establishment clause prohibits congress from establishing an official government religion. That has been extended to the states through the 14th amendment. The issue has primarily revolved in case law and pertained to funding but to a lesser degree to endorsement by official state action (e.g. split on whether posting ten commandment violates the establishment clause). A politician saying and expressing faith (which both Clintons and Obama have done also) is not even close.
And if that simple non-disparaging statement of personal faith disqualifies a candidate (one simple statement), how the heck do you vote for any candidate?
There are degrees. I don't want candidate speech to end with "can I get an Amen". It's pretty easy, actually. I don't want the candidate to slap me in the face with his faith. Yes, I'm an atheist. I guess you could say "Amen" and be an atheist but I haven't seen one. I will vote for religious folks especially over Trump but my preference is that it not be something they proclaim in the first thing I see from them. I actually like Tim Scott so maybe I'll take your info and reevaluate.
OK, that's fair. Then it comes down to your personal connection to a candidate. It is not an establishment clause violation for a candidate to state an expression of faith during his campaign.
What I will say is that, while understandable, we need to stop looking at candidates and political parties as affirmation of ourselves. Affirmation should come from family and friends, but not our leaders. It should be based on policy and not whether we think a candidate makes us feel identified, affirmed and included.
When you get a chance and despite The Atlantic being a far left publication (but they have some really good thought pieces from time to time), read the article from yesterday titled "How America Got Mean". It is not one sided and does not just attack conservatives, even if the conclusion is that culture devoid of moral education, individual and subjective morality and humanistic psychology intertwined with parental coddling that has created narcissist who focus on how they are feeling, and political alignment as moral affirmation as opposed to what they are doing in their community have led to the far right worship of Trump. However, the points made in the article also clearly pertain to the tribal defense and rationalization of Biden (as we have seen) and virtue signaling from the left.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/09/us-culture-moral-education-formation/674765/I recognized that there may be a paywall and I am normally against reposting for copyright reasons, However, because I think it is such a thoughtful analysis, I can repost the full article on how we ended up in a society where Trump is acceptable or cheered or worshipped by a large percentage of America. The article address that as well as how the typical knee-jerk reaction to, obsession with, Trump from the left is part of the cultural problem and degradation that will continue to make Trumpism possible. Let me know if you are interested in reading the article.