going4roses said:

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Did both sides support lynching?

Did both sides blow up churches with little girls inside ?

Did both sides shoot up grocery stores in Black neighborhoods ?

Did both si

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Talk to the DemoKKKrat party.

If someone has Body integrity dysphoria (BID), also referred to as body integrity identity disorder (BIID), amputee identity disorder or xenomelia, should we pay for surgeries to remove their healthy limbs?

This rare mental disorder also begins in early adolescence.

I once spent a vacation weekend in a large house filled with lesbian women, and one transman. The women overdosed on drama and establishing power dynamics. The transman was the most rational and helpful, but even he and his wife revealed his years-long confusion about whether to transition, or not. His wife eventually forced him to make a decision.

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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If someone has Body integrity dysphoria (BID), also referred to as body integrity identity disorder (BIID), amputee identity disorder or xenomelia, should we pay for surgeries to remove their healthy limbs?

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Are there doctors recommending this as the best course of treatment?

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We have doctors giving mastectomies to healthy 14-year-old girls, so it looks like they'll do anything.

New Tyler Robinson posts leaked to me tell a very different story than you've heard before:https://t.co/kI8EhweRwO

— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) September 16, 2025

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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Debunking The Biggest Lies Told About Charlie Kirk

(0:00) - Intro
(10:58) - On Second Amendment
(12:48) - On Empathy
(15:42) - On Gay People
(17:58) - On Trans People
(24:21) - On Racism
(28:21) - On Affirmative Action
(30:58) - On Critical Race Theory
(34:56) - On Illegal… pic.twitter.com/6NKI1L4jVt

— Amir Odom (@amirxodom) September 13, 2025

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I was thinking more something straight from Kirk himself.

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It's includes clips of Kirk highlighting his core beliefs of each issue listed

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Okay, but the argument from Kirk fans is that people on the left just unfairly take short clips of him saying negative stuff and that you can't see the full context. If a fan like this is selectively showing you POSITIVE clips of him, isn't that just the same thing on the other end?

What's a good way to get the full experience of the guy?

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Fair point. I'll look later today and see if I can find something that fits more what you're looking for

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Okay. So I did watch most of that guy's video you posted and here's my reaction:

Some of the points are fair, Kirk wasn't necessarily explicitly racist against Blacks or Latinos, just very much against DEI and affirmative action programs. One can agree or disagree with that but I wouldn't call it fundamentally offensive to say so.

When he talks about Kirk's opinions on LGBT issues is where you can tell this guy has to start tip-toeing around what Kirk actually said, especially because he's gay. Kirk explicitly says that he wouldn't allow gay marriage. The guy in the video kind of cuts off the clip right there and says in a hand-wavey kind of way, "Well I'm not going to dismiss the guy because of one opinion." Okay, maybe he wouldn't but could you see why a lot of gay or lesbian folks would pretty much call that a deal-breaker? If Charlie Kirk were in charge he'd take away their rights, and that seems pretty explicit to me. From my perspective, seeing this clip doesn't help at all. I dislike him even more after seeing it.

On the trans stuff: Kirk is polite with the trans person who questioned him in the clip, I'll give him that. And the criticism of clinics rushing to diagnose and prescribe medicine or surgery to kids who might show gender dysphoria is fair. But he also quite explicitly says that you shouldn't call a person by their preferred pronouns because it's a lie, and then he goes into saying that you can't change chromosomes, etc. But that wasn't the argument from the student; the student says that it's about common courtesy. And you know what? I think the student is right! It absolutely is rude if a person says to you, "I want you to call me 'she' now even though I was born as a male, and also by this new name" and you refuse to do so. Again, to me this does not make Charlie Kirk look good, and this kind of argument kind of gives away the game to me that it's not just about kids or women's sports, it's about denying the existence of trans people and even adults' desire to live their lives as they want.

If this is meant to be the friendliest argument in favor of Charlie Kirk, then I say no thanks. Doesn't mean he should have been shot, of course he shouldn't have. But I will continue to say he was a toxic presence in our politics when he was alive.

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Valid points for the most part. Agree to disagree on some such as I don't think it should be required for me to call a person by pronouns I don't agree with. They can identify and call themselves whatever they'd like, doesn't mean I have to agree to that. Change your life if you want, don't force me to change mine.

His response to gay marriage is based on his faith belief. He never tells anyone they shouldn't be gay or that they are less than for being gay. He's also on the record saying anyone who doesn't think gays can be conservative don't belong in the Conservative Party

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Not sure anyone in that clip was talking about "required" other than Charlie Kirk himself, he brought that up. The student just said you should do it out of basic courtesy. I agree with the student. And I also think this statement betrays a larger attitude that trans people just shouldn't exist at all. Otherwise why refuse to call them by the name they have chosen as grown adults?

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Universities were and so do some companies. Conservatives don't see lying to somebody as a courtesy and not helpful to them. Reality is tough enough without having to live in pretend land. You see playing along as caring, conservatives see telling the truth as the caring choice.

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We will never agree about this.

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And guess what… THATS OKAY! Neither have to be labeled a bigot or hater or racist or transphobe or whatever other term.

Discourse is fundamentally American. Share your opinions, listen to others opinions, agree to disagree sometimes.

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Saying that trans people don't really exist and it's a lie is kind of transphobic, though.

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You cannot scientifically change your sex. That's all I'm saying and that's not transphobic. It's factual, evidence based truth.

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Okay but a trans person is someone who was born as one gender and wants to live and identify as the other. These people exist and are not lying about it.

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No one is saying these people don't "exist." Of course they do and most people agree that adults should be free to live their lives however they want. However, the trans community has constructed the completely absurd argument that if you don't agree that a man can become a woman, or vice versa - which is a legitimate science based viewpoint - that you are denying their existence.

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I think that if you say that no one can change their sex and refuse to call a trans person their current preferred name/pronouns because you don't believe in their transition . . . that kind of is denying their existence. Not denying there is a literal person in front of you, of course, but denying that they are who they say they are and that there is such a thing as "trans?" Yes, it is.

Also, if that is your viewpoint? I don't think you should be upset about being called "transphobic." You are, and proudly so. Own it!

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No - it is being rude and insensitive. If you tell me your a horse and I disagree, what then? If a white person claims to be black, what then?

If I'm Jewish and a person tells me I'm going to burn in hell for not accepting Christ, does that "deny my existence"? If Christmas is a national holiday but Hanukkah is not, does that deny my Jewish existence? What about a cult leader who claims to be the reincarnation of Christ? Am I obliged to accept that? If not, what is the difference?

This formulation is absurd. No one has any obligation to accept another person's claim as to "who they are" and confer agreement with it. That is an irrational expectation that infringes on the other person's liberties - it is a free country and we can think what we want (even hateful or intolerant thoughts). And beyond that, it is an unhealthy dynamic where the trans person is relying on others for affirmations. Why would any person confer that power on another?

Just to be clear, I would want to confer dignity on any trans person I meet. I have no desire to offend or hurt. But that is my choice and a trans person has no right to demand that from everyone.

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In a legal sense? No, no particular obligation. In a moral sense? Yeah, I think you typically should. Obviously there are limits, but I don't think referring to someone with male versus female pronouns is over that limit.

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We happen to agree on that. But people who disagree are not fascists, transphobic, or killing trans people.

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Maybe a little transphobic. Though I will concede that this also depends on how much your beliefs about transgenderism being "a delusion" or whatever (and that being why you don't want to use the different pronouns) extends into supporting laws that suppress trans medicine. I find that the one tends to flow from the other, but I suppose it doesn't have to be the case.

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Words have meaning. We need to define transphobic. The internet supplies the following definition which seems like a good one: "having or showing a dislike of or strong prejudice against transgender people."

Merriam Webster - "discrimination against, aversion to, or fear of transgender people "

None of what I described - particularly science based beliefs - falls within those definitions. And in terms of discrimination, it is very much a question of balancing the rights of different people. Why do the rights and desires of trans people trample the rights of born females to have separate sports and places like locker rooms?

In terms of the "delusion" claim, the DSM still classifies gender dysphoria as a mental condition. There's also possibly a social contagion aspect - e.g., the odds of having two trans/gender confused kids are astronomical yet lots of Hollywood celebrities have exactly that. That doesn't mean that trans people should be treated poorly. It does mean that its very reasonable for people to view gender dysphoria as a deviation from the norm.

In terms of medicine, there are many laws regulating the use of "medicine" particularly as to children. The science behind the " trans medicine" is in dispute and it is not transphobic for society to limit life changing controversial medical treatments on children. This is well established - e.g., California's ban on conversion therapy.

Using words like transphobic, racist and fascist loosely devalues and distorts real instances of discrimination and fascism. It also raises the temperature by impugning the motives of people with mainstream and honestly held views. It leads to violence.

PAC-10-BEAR said:

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sycasey said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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The reason the idea that “both sides” commit political violence is so offensive is not only that it’s false; it’s that it reassigns to the Right to half the guilt of a crime committed against them, while not one Democrat has apologized for the rhetoric they shared with the killer pic.twitter.com/I5DdaRqrB3

— Batya Ungar-Sargon (@bungarsargon) September 16, 2025

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This is just so 100% incorrect I'm kind of in disbelief she said it, but Batya is an idiot so I shouldn't be surprised.

We have already discussed many times the killing of Democrat Melissa Hartman by conservative reigious activist and one-time registered Republican Vance Boelter. Republicans and conservatives on this very forum have tried to argue that Boelter was actually a leftist, which the bulk of available evidence says he was not. Both sides absolutely do this.

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Vance Boelter was a Tim Walz appointee who murdered Melissa Hartman and her husband after she stepped out of line and voted with Republicans. His wife also interned for Tim Walz back in 2010.

Boelter wrote in a confession letter that Tim Walz wanted him to assassinate Amy Klobuchar so he could take her Senate seat and was found to have "No Kings' flyers in his vehicle.

This story was so weird that the mainstream media didn't want to dwell on it for potential narratives. That's what I remember.

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Did anyone on the right claim that Hartman and her husband (or the other victims) where bad people or that they deserved to die? To my knowledge, the right were nearly universal in decrying the killings.

Were there any celebrations in Minnesota after the murders?

Thanks.

BearGoggles said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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sycasey said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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The reason the idea that “both sides” commit political violence is so offensive is not only that it’s false; it’s that it reassigns to the Right to half the guilt of a crime committed against them, while not one Democrat has apologized for the rhetoric they shared with the killer pic.twitter.com/I5DdaRqrB3

— Batya Ungar-Sargon (@bungarsargon) September 16, 2025

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This is just so 100% incorrect I'm kind of in disbelief she said it, but Batya is an idiot so I shouldn't be surprised.

We have already discussed many times the killing of Democrat Melissa Hartman by conservative reigious activist and one-time registered Republican Vance Boelter. Republicans and conservatives on this very forum have tried to argue that Boelter was actually a leftist, which the bulk of available evidence says he was not. Both sides absolutely do this.

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Vance Boelter was a Tim Walz appointee who murdered Melissa Hartman and her husband after she stepped out of line and voted with Republicans. His wife also interned for Tim Walz back in 2010.

Boelter wrote in a confession letter that Tim Walz wanted him to assassinate Amy Klobuchar so he could take her Senate seat and was found to have "No Kings' flyers in his vehicle.

This story was so weird that the mainstream media didn't want to dwell on it for potential narratives. That's what I remember.

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Did anyone on the right claim that Hartman and her husband (or the other victims) where bad people or that they deserved to die? To my knowledge, the right were nearly universal in decrying the killings.

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High profile people on the right pretty universally lied about the shooter being a leftist or ignored the shooting, expressing zero sympathy or concern in the process.

PATEL GOT ABSOLUTELY ROASTED TODAY.

DESERVEDLY SO.

movielover said:

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If someone has Body integrity dysphoria (BID), also referred to as body integrity identity disorder (BIID), amputee identity disorder or xenomelia, should we pay for surgeries to remove their healthy limbs?

This rare mental disorder also begins in early adolescence.

I once spent a vacation weekend in a large house filled with lesbian women, and one transman. The women overdosed on drama and establishing power dynamics. The transman was the most rational and helpful, but even he and his wife revealed his years-long confusion about whether to transition, or not. His wife eventually forced him to make a decision.

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I once went on vacation with a wine maker. I do not presume that makes me the expert you claim to be ;-)

BearGoggles said:

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Did anyone on the right claim that Hartman and her husband (or the other victims) where bad people or that they deserved to die? To my knowledge, the right were nearly universal in decrying the killings.

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Only the ****ING SENIOR SENATOR FROM UTAH!!!!

" "This is what happens," Lee wrote in an X post, "when Marxists don't get their way." Attached to the post was a picture of the suspect charged in the shooting, Vance Boelter, evidently wearing a latex face mask."

" Separately, under another picture of Boelter, Lee wrote, "Nightmare on Waltz Street", which appeared to be a reference to Tim Walz,

Seriously - there is not a single Democratic elected official of similar stature that did the things that Mike Lee did......and I actually LIKE Lee when he used to be a sagebrush libertarian before going all MAGA after watching what the cult did to Mitt.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/republican-senator-mike-lee-kirk-shooting-melissa-hortman

🚨HOLY CRAP! Kash Patel just revealed new information about the investigation into Tyler Robinson!

This is another BOMBSHELL!

According to Kash, there are "MANY MORE THAN 20" people from Discord who are now under investigation.

Sen. Hawley: "I see that thread had as many as… pic.twitter.com/sp7xhnPoUZ

— Gunther Eagleman™ (@GuntherEagleman) September 16, 2025

going4roses said:

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They don't admit to any wrongdoing just like America with her dark under belly of evil. Lie lie lie denial denial denial then cry cry cry while pointing the finger elsewhere (everywhere except to the real problem/people/never self)

It's a cold dynamic
They Reach then Gaslight then cry victim and have it down to a science. Wrapped in denial/no accountability ( never ever admitting to any wrongdoing aka think they are infallible) lacking of any self awareness so self absorbed (so full of **** they don't know / don't care what the truth is) it's only about them and everything else is wrong or "shut up"

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That's a great overview of the left

going4roses said:

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We’ve reached the point where straight white male school shooters are now being painted as the left. Like, come on. Give it a rest. https://t.co/l5gp2lHlcW

— Akilah Hughes (@AkilahObviously) September 16, 2025

So y'all just gonna keep lying geez us h Christ

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Are you intentionally ignoring the facts that are out rn? Either you are or you're just trolling at this point

socaltownie said:

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BearGoggles said:

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socaltownie said:

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Yes. You have the freedom to be an *******. We have the freedim to call you one. What many oppose is that you wany us bite our tongue rather than call you out. I refuse.

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It is not being an ******* or "transphobic" to have the science based opinion that there are only two sexes, to think trans women (i.e., biological males) should not participate in women's sports or invade women's spaces, and/or to think (again based on substantial science) that it is harmful to medically or surgically transition teenagers. These are mainstream (I believe majority) views where people are still vilified and, more importantly, trans people are told that they are mistreated simply because people hold these views.

Yet we've all heard the rhetoric that these reasonable beliefs are "fascist" and "killing trans people" which is just absurd rhetoric that creates a permission structure for violence. And as a result, there is a strong presence of trans people in antifa and have been recent mass shootings by trans people (or motivated by this extreme trans ideology).

That is a lot of words saying that you're not an ******* or mistreating someone for holding mainstream and quite reasonable beliefs.

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. So the question really should be thrown back to you and you should ask - why do I have such a problem with someone born with XY chromosomes wearing a dress and wearing makeup?

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You clearly have ignored everything said. Nobody gives a damn what they wear, just stop trying to get everyone to recognize a man as a woman.

socaltownie said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Did anyone on the right claim that Hartman and her husband (or the other victims) where bad people or that they deserved to die? To my knowledge, the right were nearly universal in decrying the killings.

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Only the ****ING SENIOR SENATOR FROM UTAH!!!!

" "This is what happens," Lee wrote in an X post, "when Marxists don't get their way." Attached to the post was a picture of the suspect charged in the shooting, Vance Boelter, evidently wearing a latex face mask."

" Separately, under another picture of Boelter, Lee wrote, "Nightmare on Waltz Street", which appeared to be a reference to Tim Walz,

Seriously - there is not a single Democratic elected official of similar stature that did the things that Mike Lee did......and I actually LIKE Lee when he used to be a sagebrush libertarian before going all MAGA after watching what the cult did to Mitt.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/republican-senator-mike-lee-kirk-shooting-melissa-hortman

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Uhhh how about every time a dem senator calls Trump and all his followers Nazis…

HELP US FIND HIM: A student at Texas State University is imitating the assassination of Charlie Kirk and threatening TPUSA members at a Charlie Kirk memorial with violence.

The student glorifies the assassination of Charlie, encourages more violence against students then walks… pic.twitter.com/bwibo9gZyL

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) September 16, 2025

But nobody on the left is celebrating right?

cal83dls79 said:

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So Bondi promises to go after hate speech only to back off because Charlie and other conservative pundits said there was no such thing as hate speech. She must have followed him very closely. Ooops.

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You have to give credit to the right for staying principled on hate speech. Whenever anyone is in power, all of a sudden, they start talking about hate speech, because it’s such an obvious way to shut down dissent. But when Pam Bondi suggested it, the right pushed back. Nice job!

— Cenk Uygur (@cenkuygur) September 16, 2025

Anarchistbear said:

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Key text message exchange between Tyler Robinson, the accused Charlie Kirk assassin, and his roommate and romantic partner, per prosecutors.

Live updates here: https://t.co/6GmkMqQAqH

Full indictment: https://t.co/kZIVcy9PgL pic.twitter.com/JFHs3yW5OW

— Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs (@NickAtNews) September 16, 2025

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Seems like it's true that Robinson's roommate/partner had no idea what was going on.

Seems like Robinson was in love.

Tyler Robinson texted his trans lover: "I did it because I had enough of his hate"

Don't worry, they'll spin this too

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) September 16, 2025

socaltownie said:

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BearGoggles said:

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socaltownie said:

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Yes. You have the freedom to be an *******. We have the freedim to call you one. What many oppose is that you wany us bite our tongue rather than call you out. I refuse.

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It is not being an ******* or "transphobic" to have the science based opinion that there are only two sexes, to think trans women (i.e., biological males) should not participate in women's sports or invade women's spaces, and/or to think (again based on substantial science) that it is harmful to medically or surgically transition teenagers. These are mainstream (I believe majority) views where people are still vilified and, more importantly, trans people are told that they are mistreated simply because people hold these views.

Yet we've all heard the rhetoric that these reasonable beliefs are "fascist" and "killing trans people" which is just absurd rhetoric that creates a permission structure for violence. And as a result, there is a strong presence of trans people in antifa and have been recent mass shootings by trans people (or motivated by this extreme trans ideology).

That is a lot of words saying that you're not an ******* or mistreating someone for holding mainstream and quite reasonable beliefs.

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OK. Lets unpack this a bit.

First, there are (mostly) two sexes but there are Many different ways that GENDER is expressed.

A way to think about this is realize that the US has a fairly wide range of accepted gender roles for those of XX sex (from bombshell hyper-feminity to tom boy rough it with the guys. Those with XX chromosomes have a fairly narrow range of what is consider acceptable male gender roles. For example, men who wanted to paint their finger nails would be considered at odds with majority gender roles - unless black and in a goth band ;-) You also would hopefully recognize that this is not historically (or culturally) fixed. Men used to wear wigs loved lace...

And yes, I am using that rather than Male and Female sexed because such terms have historical and cultural constest. Remember, it wasn''t very long ago (within our lifetimes if you are a 60 year old far like myself) where "Girls" were not considered lady like if they rode a bike with a straight cross bar rather than one that could accomodate a skirt.and where called "tom boys" if they did.

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We've had gay, straight, bears (small b), bisexuals, transvestites and others for decades. A few items really pushed the 'Overton window' and received a lot of backlash.

1. Sex-change surgeries for confused children, allegedly exploded during Covid (social contagion?) and funded under Obamacare.

2. An explosion in drag queen social hours for children in schools, libraries, etc.

3. Trying to ramrod new self-identified pronouns including nonsensical they / them plural pronouns to an individual.

Detransitioner Chloe Cole is a perfect example. Mixed feelings as adolescence hit, liked being a jock, was told online she was trans, gained an immediate following and fanbase. Her parents were told if they didn't go along w her transition, she might commit suicide (a lie?). One counselor had misgivings, and was pulled off her case. Dr. Jordan Peterson says her feelings and insecurities were well within normal teenage angst. She had a double mastectomy.

She was never told the medical consequences, the affects of the powerful hormone blockers she would take, possible infertility, etc. At 15 or 16 she took a psychology class, and realized she wanted a family. She is now suing Kaiser for $75 million (?). Her online 'friends' disappeared when she de-transitioned.

It appears that CC had unqualified and rushed therapeutic care. Why the rush? Dr. Peterson claims conditions like bulimia can cluster w teenagers, and the same might happen with the new 'trans movement'. The apparent explosion of trans children in Hollywood would appear to confirm external factors having a huge influence.

Transgendered academic Dr. Camille Paglia has said that our social upheaval about sexuality, gender roles, etc., denote a civilization in decline, like ancient Rome. She grappled with gender dysphoria since her youth.

"Paglia doesn't mince words when it comes to this point. "Sex change is literally impossible," she says. "[E]very cell of our bodies, except for the blood, remains coded with our birth gender for life." She suggests that those who pursue gender reassignment are acting out in rebellion, instead of living out how they were born, as many insist is the case."

Her views are controversial to some, and some on the intolerant Left label her transphobic.

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2019/09/paglia-criticizing-transgenderism-is-not-transphobic/

Drag Queen hour has a boatload of problems, not the least being that 50% or more of our students are below-grade level with basic math and reading comprehension.

The sycophantic fantasy y'all have with trans people is way out

sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Key text message exchange between Tyler Robinson, the accused Charlie Kirk assassin, and his roommate and romantic partner, per prosecutors.

Live updates here: https://t.co/6GmkMqQAqH

Full indictment: https://t.co/kZIVcy9PgL pic.twitter.com/JFHs3yW5OW

— Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs (@NickAtNews) September 16, 2025

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Seems like it's true that Robinson's roommate/partner had no idea what was going on.

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We'll see if that's true once they scrub everything, I find it hard to believe he knew nothing but they will find the truth.

They'll get the truth, but will we?