cal83dls79 said:

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Again I'm not an attorney but isn't the bar lower in a civil suit?

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Burdens of Proof:
Criminal:
Beyond a reasonable doubt. Jury verdict must be unanimous
Civil:
By a Preponderance of the evidence

Federal Court
In federal civil cases, the verdict must be unanimous unless all parties agree otherwise. Juries typically consist of at least six members and no more than twelve.

State Court
State court requirements vary significantly:

Majority Rule: Many states allow for a less-than-unanimous, or "super-majority," verdict in civil cases.
Common requirements include a vote of at least three-fourths (75%) of the jurors, or five out of six, or nine out of twelve jurors, depending on the state's specific rules and the size of the jury.

For example, in California civil trials, a minimum of 9 out of 12 jurors must agree to reach a verdict.

Unanimous Rule: A minority of states still require a unanimous verdict for a civil case.
https://www.mcmanislaw.com/blog/2018/the-jury-system-a-brief-comparison-between-federal-and-california-practices/

sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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A slowed down version of the liberal terrorlst trying to run over an ICE agent has been released..

Spread this everywhere!! pic.twitter.com/hjHJtLHtJ5

— American AF 🇺🇸 (@iAnonPatriot) January 7, 2026

Another angle

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This angle makes it look like the officer was not actually hit, or at best maybe a glancing blow from the rear-view mirror to his hand. Hardly in danger of being run over, though I can see why he might have thought so as the car started moving.

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This is basically the test - would a reasonable person fear for their safety / life in that moment. To me the answer is an easy Yes.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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For what exactly? The more angles I see, the shoot was justified.

It shouldn't have happened and this is a terrible look. But legally it looks justified

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wrongful death suits for one, but I'm not an attorney. Maybe they can chime in.

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A successful wrongful death suit unfortunately encourages more dangerous behavior by rioting nutjobs. Driving your car at a law enforcement officer pointing a gun at you is the cause of getting shot by that officer. I still think the officer should be fired. We need folks that use better judgment when facing rioting nutjobs.

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For one thing, he probably shouldn't have gotten that close to the front of the car. I don't know what official procedure is supposed to be there, but seems like that's asking for trouble.

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Well, that answers that. He shouldn't have approached from the front.

NEW: ICE officers are trained to never approach a vehicle from the front and instead to approach in a “tactical L” 90-degree angle to prevent injury or cross-fire, a senior Department of Homeland Security official told @NBCNews @JuliaEAinsleyhttps://t.co/dnAB62UP64

— Natasha Korecki (@natashakorecki) January 7, 2026

Another question: did ICE prevent this woman from getting quick medical attention? That could be actionable.

"A doctor at the scene attempted to help the woman who was shot, but was kept away by federal agents. When an ambulance finally arrived, it was blocked from reaching her by law-enforcement vehicles, and paramedics had to reach her on foot." https://t.co/aWDPslnLkS

— nxthompson (@nxthompson) January 7, 2026

Mar a Lago face*


* Full lips, high, prominent cheekbones, bright white teeth, a strong jawline and minimal facial movement with well-defined eyebrows."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/doctor-makes-bold-prediction-about-mar-a-lago-face/

tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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A slowed down version of the liberal terrorlst trying to run over an ICE agent has been released..

Spread this everywhere!! pic.twitter.com/hjHJtLHtJ5

— American AF 🇺🇸 (@iAnonPatriot) January 7, 2026

Another angle

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This angle makes it look like the officer was not actually hit, or at best maybe a glancing blow from the rear-view mirror to his hand. Hardly in danger of being run over, though I can see why he might have thought so as the car started moving.

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This is basically the test - would a reasonable person fear for their safety / life in that moment. To me the answer is an easy Yes.

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I've been closer to being harmed by old women driving thru the Montclair Safeway parking lot.
If trump's mall cop feared for his life, he needs to grow some balls, find a new job or both

“This is what we call officer-created jeopardy,” Geoffrey Alpert, an expert on police use of force, said, noting that the 1st agent to approach the car escalated the situation, whereas local police officers are trained to de-escalate tense confrontationshttps://t.co/A7JQu6EBZz

— Trip Gabriel (@tripgabriel) January 8, 2026

Odd behavior for someone who was trying to impede ICE:

The footage clearly shows Renee Nicole Good trying to wave the ICE agent's car ahead, which completely undermines DHS's narrative that she intended to "kill the ICE agent" pic.twitter.com/M9myMtyJgf

— Kei Pritsker (@KeiPritsker) January 7, 2026

Deleted to allow more facts to come out.

sycasey said:

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Odd behavior for someone who was trying to impede ICE:

The footage clearly shows Renee Nicole Good trying to wave the ICE agent's car ahead, which completely undermines DHS's narrative that she intended to "kill the ICE agent" pic.twitter.com/M9myMtyJgf

— Kei Pritsker (@KeiPritsker) January 7, 2026

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She,clearly wasn't there to intentionally kill an ICE Agent. She was there as a legal observer.

This is the definition:

"A legal observer is a neutral, trained volunteer (often a law student or lawyer) who monitors and documents police conduct at protests and demonstrations to ensure protesters' rights are protected, acting as an independent witness to potential misconduct or unlawful behavior without participating in the protest itself. They wear identifying vests (like orange) and use video, photos, and notes to create records that can be used later to defend arrested activists, challenge police actions, or hold law enforcement accountable. "

Can we all agree that Trump's claim that the driver ran over an ICE agent is a lie and inappropriate?

This whole thing is a poorly executed Trump fiasco

Yes. And Noem's statement was equally BS.

tequila4kapp said:

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Yes. And Noem's statement was equally BS.

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All of this should convince everyone to never take this government's claims about ICE behavior at face value. They've been caught in a lie too many times.

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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Odd behavior for someone who was trying to impede ICE:

The footage clearly shows Renee Nicole Good trying to wave the ICE agent's car ahead, which completely undermines DHS's narrative that she intended to "kill the ICE agent" pic.twitter.com/M9myMtyJgf

— Kei Pritsker (@KeiPritsker) January 7, 2026

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She,clearly wasn't there to intentionally kill an ICE Agent. She was there as a legal observer.

This is the definition:

"A legal observer is a neutral, trained volunteer (often a law student or lawyer) who monitors and documents police conduct at protests and demonstrations to ensure protesters' rights are protected, acting as an independent witness to potential misconduct or unlawful behavior without participating in the protest itself. They wear identifying vests (like orange) and use video, photos, and notes to create records that can be used later to defend arrested activists, challenge police actions, or hold law enforcement accountable. "

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That seems awfully generous. She was in a car positioned across a street.

Here's further video:

NEW: Here is an eyewitness video of the shooting, posted by Daniel Suitor on Bsky. While it doesn't capture the actual moment itself (the shooting is blocked by the car), @TriciaOhio's claim below of an attempt to run down an officer already appears to be demonstrably false. https://t.co/AS6z11IyBG pic.twitter.com/HuWzsoHAcI

— Aaron Reichlin-Melnick (@ReichlinMelnick) January 7, 2026

This actually looks like she is trying to pull her car onto the road, but is stopping to wave other cars by first. The ICE agents stop their truck and demand she leave her car.

Why? What authority does ICE have to do this? Do they have reason to suspect that this white woman in Minneapolis is an illegal immigrant? That's supposed to be their only purview, not general law enforcement.

The more I see, the worse this looks for ICE.

Right, waving the Ice guy to pass.

sycasey said:

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Another question: did ICE prevent this woman from getting quick medical attention? That could be actionable.

"A doctor at the scene attempted to help the woman who was shot, but was kept away by federal agents. When an ambulance finally arrived, it was blocked from reaching her by law-enforcement vehicles, and paramedics had to reach her on foot." https://t.co/aWDPslnLkS

— nxthompson (@nxthompson) January 7, 2026

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WATCH THIS NOW!

Doctor on scene: I'm a physician.

Ice agent: I DON'T CARE

They shot her three times in the face and head and then denied her medical care and it's all ON CAMERA.pic.twitter.com/41vLCl7uxt

— Don Winslow (@donwinslow) January 7, 2026

We will continue to have chaotic deadly scenes on our streets as long as the magats are in charge

I put the blame here on the far left who have clearly been stoking anti-ICE sentiment for some time hoping something like this would happen so they could weaponize it.

The ICE agent shouldn't have shot her.

The ICE agent was justified in doing so.

This is sad and I feel sorry for her parents.

All the above.

Come on man, she caused her own death. It sucks. It shouldn't have happened but this is no one's fault but hers.

BearlySane88 said:

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Come on man, she caused her own death. It sucks. It shouldn't have happened but this is no one's fault but hers.

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The reason your opinions are so persuasive is because you are consistent. That is precisely what you said about the Ashley Babbitt shooting, right?

" Within minutes of yesterday's fatal ICE shooting in Minneapolis, the country had splintered into two irreconcilable camps one crying murder, the other terrorism, Axios' Zachary Basu writes.

Why it matters: In another era, responsible actors might have treated a tragedy like this with restraint and calls for a thorough investigation. In today's hyperpartisan climate, it became an instant Rorschach test.

The left branded the ICE agent a "rogue officer" who executed a U.S. citizen during a federal immigration crackdown that never should have happened in the first place.

The right labeled the slain driver as a "domestic terrorist" and framed the shooting as a clear-cut case of self-defense amid an assault on law enforcement.

The same video footage, watched by millions of Americans, fueled both narratives. Elected officials only accelerated the rush to judgment.

President Trump accused 37-year-old Renee Good of "violently, willfully, and viciously" running over an ICE officer, and said "it's hard to believe" the officer survived."*
Axios

*….and the reason Trump is so persuasive is because we know that from him we are only going to get the facts and nothing but the truth.

BearlySane88 said:

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Come on man, she caused her own death. It sucks. It shouldn't have happened but this is no one's fault but hers.

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?????????

For the love of god.

Did you write the same thing about the Kent State Students?

(Deletes way snarky personal attack but I am thinking it).

FAFO is a HORRIBLE trend in our culture as it essentially justifies authoritarian thuggery. At this point driving less than 5 MPH is "****ing around". I guess the police on the Edmund Pettus bridge were terrified of being stampeded by the marchers and thus, since they were ****ing around, it was perfectly fine for them to find out with guard dogs. Or maybe jews were ****ing around by not coverting and adopting the majoritarian religion in German, Russia, Iran, etc. etc. They found out. Or perhaps Native Americans ****ed around by being born with certain genes and well, they found out in the american genocide.

Now what we HOPEFULLY can agree with (this seems simple and easy) is that the ICE surge is just BADDLY implemented Public policy. No plan for recruitment. Ridiculously low standards. Minimal training. And so we are putting them (and it isn't their fault) into situations in which they are not trained. The officer that shot should NEVER have been directly in front of the vehicle - something that is drilled in over and over in even the smallest and least resourced academy. The way in which ICE agents are captured repeatedly on video detaining people also is so subpar for law enforcement. If you talk to any bigger city police officer (I have asked 4) they are appalled at what they are seeing.

I am not a lawyer so I will not opine as to whether the officer is or isn't crimilaly liable. We also have not seen all the video (if it exists) as to the entire situation and arrest. ICE (I would note) doesn't wear body cams so we may NEVER know (and a nice example of WHY body cams often protect lawenforcement just as much as the "public"). But what IS clear is that the way the officer tactically handled this was below trainee standards.

She blocked a road, ignored the order to exit, tried to flee, struck a LEO with a vehicle. It is 100% true that if she just doesn't do any ONE of those things she is alive. She was not an innocent peaceful protester.

The policy of having ICE arrest people illegally here and detain those who have overstayed their visas is 100% legitimate and valid. The problem is sanctuary jurisdictions giving people defacto free reign to threaten, harm and impede those actions by not having local police on hand enforcing basic laws.

I did say the same things about Ashley Babbit and will do so again now. She was a freaking idiot for ignoring commands, breaking the law, ignoring the armed officer on the other side of the doors and being part of a threat by trying to go through that window. Neither woman deserved to die but both women recklessly created the situation that led to their own deaths.

Kent State students had no weapons and were not a threat to the troops. Totally different situation.

socaltownie said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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Come on man, she caused her own death. It sucks. It shouldn't have happened but this is no one's fault but hers.

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?????????

For the love of god.

Did you write the same thing about the Kent State Students?

(Deletes way snarky personal attack but I am thinking it).

FAFO is a HORRIBLE trend in our culture as it essentially justifies authoritarian thuggery. At this point driving less than 5 MPH is "****ing around". I guess the police on the Edmund Pettus bridge were terrified of being stampeded by the marchers and thus, since they were ****ing around, it was perfectly fine for them to find out with guard dogs. Or maybe jews were ****ing around by not coverting and adopting the majoritarian religion in German, Russia, Iran, etc. etc. They found out. Or perhaps Native Americans ****ed around by being born with certain genes and well, they found out in the american genocide.

Now what we HOPEFULLY can agree with (this seems simple and easy) is that the ICE surge is just BADDLY implemented Public policy. No plan for recruitment. Ridiculously low standards. Minimal training. And so we are putting them (and it isn't their fault) into situations in which they are not trained. The officer that shot should NEVER have been directly in front of the vehicle - something that is drilled in over and over in even the smallest and least resourced academy. The way in which ICE agents are captured repeatedly on video detaining people also is so subpar for law enforcement. If you talk to any bigger city police officer (I have asked 4) they are appalled at what they are seeing.

I am not a lawyer so I will not opine as to whether the officer is or isn't crimilaly liable. We also have not seen all the video (if it exists) as to the entire situation and arrest. ICE (I would note) doesn't wear body cams so we may NEVER know (and a nice example of WHY body cams often protect lawenforcement just as much as the "public"). But what IS clear is that the way the officer tactically handled this was below trainee standards.

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Yes, and I will again ask why the other ICE guys needed to run up on her car in the first place and demand she get out? There is no evidence she's an illegal immigrant or has any with her. They don't get to order people around just because; they have a very specific job (or are supposed to). Seems to me that the officers created a bad situation by being too aggressive.

And if you're saying "she's blocking the road" . . . please. She was waving cars past just before this happened. In fact, the officer who walked in front of the car and shot her had just been waved past!

She WAS blocking the road otherwise she would not have been able to wave people around. At that point the LEO is legally justified in approaching the vehicle and ordering her out. She is allegedly breaking federal law by impeding ICE operations. The arguments related to her waving people around would be relevant at her trial.

tequila4kapp said:

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She blocked a road, ignored the order to exit, tried to flee, struck a LEO with a vehicle. It is 100% true that if she just doesn't do any ONE of those things she is alive. She was not an innocent peaceful protester.

The policy of having ICE arrest people illegally here and detain those who have overstayed their visas is 100% legitimate and valid. The problem is sanctuary jurisdictions giving people defacto free reign to threaten, harm and impede those actions by not having local police on hand enforcing basic laws.

I did say the same things about Ashley Babbit and will do so again now. She was a freaking idiot for ignoring commands, breaking the law, ignoring the armed officer on the other side of the doors and being part of a threat by trying to go through that window. Neither woman deserved to die but both women recklessly created the situation that led to their own deaths.

Kent State students had no weapons and were not a threat to the troops. Totally different situation.

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Lots of roadblocks for litigation in this matter:

Explainer - Can the ICE agent who shot a Minneapolis woman be prosecuted? https://www.msn.com/en-us/crime/general/explainer-can-the-ice-agent-who-shot-a-minneapolis-woman-be-prosecuted/ar-AA1TOeSV

tequila4kapp said:

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She blocked a road, ignored the order to exit, tried to flee, struck a LEO with a vehicle. It is 100% true that if she just doesn't do any ONE of those things she is alive. She was not an innocent peaceful protester.

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Or maybe the LEO's weren't trained properly.
Did you ever think about that?

"From Title 1, U.S. DOJ Policy on Use of Force:

"Firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury ... and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle."

Page #7

Policy on the Use of Force

tequila4kapp said:

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She WAS blocking the road otherwise she would not have been able to wave people around. At that point the LEO is legally justified in approaching the vehicle and ordering her out. She is allegedly breaking federal law by impeding ICE operations. The arguments related to her waving people around would be relevant at her trial.

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I believe her lesbian partner was the woman standing behind the car, videotaping the officers, cussing at them, and yelling at them to get the f out of town while she herself, as a legal observer, was acting like a professional obstructer of ICE. It is unclear how long she had been in Minneapolis. She moved to Minneapolis from Kansas City during the summer. The ICE agents said she was repeatedly blocking them with her car.

tequila4kapp said:

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She WAS blocking the road otherwise she would not have been able to wave people around. At that point the LEO is legally justified in approaching the vehicle and ordering her out. She is allegedly breaking federal law by impeding ICE operations. The arguments related to her waving people around would be relevant at her trial.

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I'm sorry, but you cannot tell me that the ICE vehicle is "impeded" when one of them just drove past. They chose to get out of the truck and engage with her.

NEW: Here is an eyewitness video of the shooting, posted by Daniel Suitor on Bsky. While it doesn't capture the actual moment itself (the shooting is blocked by the car), @TriciaOhio's claim below of an attempt to run down an officer already appears to be demonstrably false. https://t.co/AS6z11IyBG pic.twitter.com/HuWzsoHAcI

— Aaron Reichlin-Melnick (@ReichlinMelnick) January 7, 2026

It appears to me from the video the key moments from the point where she started driving forward to the point where a shot was fired was about 1 second, definitely not more than 2 seconds. The officer didn't draw his weapon until after she started forward. He had a split second to respond and didn't know if she was going to proceed straight at him, veer left or veer right. The word "reasonable" in the guideline you quoted is the operative word.

sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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She WAS blocking the road otherwise she would not have been able to wave people around. At that point the LEO is legally justified in approaching the vehicle and ordering her out. She is allegedly breaking federal law by impeding ICE operations. The arguments related to her waving people around would be relevant at her trial.

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I'm sorry, but you cannot tell me that the ICE vehicle is "impeded" when one of them just drove past. They chose to get out of the truck and engage with her.

NEW: Here is an eyewitness video of the shooting, posted by Daniel Suitor on Bsky. While it doesn't capture the actual moment itself (the shooting is blocked by the car), @TriciaOhio's claim below of an attempt to run down an officer already appears to be demonstrably false. https://t.co/AS6z11IyBG pic.twitter.com/HuWzsoHAcI

— Aaron Reichlin-Melnick (@ReichlinMelnick) January 7, 2026

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By your logic, if a car is perpendicular in the middle of the 405 freeway, it isn't impeding traffic. After all, cars can still go by either side of it.

The fact she did not fully impede all traffic does not mean she was not intending to and actually impeding ICE operations.

I withdrew an earlier comment saying I'd like to see additional information. I was thinking about a) how her vehicle got to that position; b) what the shooting officer was doing before she moved forward and why he was wherever he was. I would still like to get that info; it is very important, in part because it goes to this impeding question.

oski003 said:

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I believe her lesbian partner was the woman standing behind the car, videotaping the officers, cussing at them, and yelling at them to get the f out of town while she herself, as a legal observer, was acting like a professional obstructer of ICE. It is unclear how long she had been in Minneapolis. She is from Colorado. The ICE agents said she was repeatedly blocking them with her car.

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Lesbian is irrelevant.
USA Today reports her mom told the Star Tribune she and her partner lived in Minneapolis.