First problem is that George hasn't presented a deal, supposedly just what he is hearing. I can see why the WSU AD said to Wilner the problem wasn't that the programs were not together, but that they were waiting and that timing was more of an issue (I'm paraphrasing)tequila4kapp said:
At some point, if there isn't a deal that makes everyone happy after 8 months just shut the damn thing down and let everyone go their separate ways.
CALiforniALUM said:
If we go with Amazon, at least we will be on PRIME time. With free punt returns!
Colorado will be the most popular 5-7 team ever this upcoming season.calumnus said:With Colorado they can offer Prime on Prime. That has to have some entertainment value.CALiforniALUM said:
If we go with Amazon, at least we will be on PRIME time. With free punt returns!
CLIP: Pac 12 may have missed its best deal months ago, which could lead it to Apple.
— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) February 22, 2023
POD: https://t.co/lyi8nmHjgE pic.twitter.com/moDl4PllhO
Arizona State Ray Anderson tells Arizona Sports new @pac12 deal, "may not be the projections originally contemplated but will be a solid enough financial situation to keep this conference together."
— Dennis Dodd (@dennisdoddcbs) February 23, 2023
50 million subscribers - 25 million paid subscribers. The rest are people who have deals - like ATT get apple TV for a year, etc. Similar to HBO...I got it from ATT phone. But I watch HBO max all the time. And my apple plan is currently in use in Santa Barbara and San Diego with my kids as well and their roommates (yes I do pay for Apple TV - plus cable, plus Amazon, plus a bunch of others).berserkeley said:Does anyone see this as a positive sign? A quick Google search suggests that Apple TV+ has 20-25 million subscribers and a 6% market share coming in after HBO Max, Disney+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix.calumnus said:BigDaddy said:NEWS: Apple has emerged as a potential landing spot for Pac 12, The Post has learned.
— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) February 21, 2023
More in story ...https://t.co/MMALO2BkFO
Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?
Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
Perhaps Kliavkoff can find a way to get Myspace to stream Pac-12 games ....
Oski87 said:50 million subscribers - 25 million paid subscribers. The rest are people who have deals - like ATT get apple TV for a year, etc. Similar to HBO...I got it from ATT phone. But I watch HBO max all the time. And my apple plan is currently in use in Santa Barbara and San Diego with my kids as well and their roommates (yes I do pay for Apple TV - plus cable, plus Amazon, plus a bunch of others).berserkeley said:Does anyone see this as a positive sign? A quick Google search suggests that Apple TV+ has 20-25 million subscribers and a 6% market share coming in after HBO Max, Disney+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix.calumnus said:BigDaddy said:NEWS: Apple has emerged as a potential landing spot for Pac 12, The Post has learned.
— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) February 21, 2023
More in story ...https://t.co/MMALO2BkFO
Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?
Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
Perhaps Kliavkoff can find a way to get Myspace to stream Pac-12 games ....
PAC 12 network has direct to consumer reach of 12 million subscribers - about a third of California. Exciting distribution that Cal was on 8 times last year.
There is no doubt I would prefer to watch all the sports on my comcast linked TIVO, but frankly it is pretty easy to switch the input on the TV and get to the there inputs.
Yep, the statement has to mean a number bigger than 31.6.ColoradoBear said:Oski87 said:50 million subscribers - 25 million paid subscribers. The rest are people who have deals - like ATT get apple TV for a year, etc. Similar to HBO...I got it from ATT phone. But I watch HBO max all the time. And my apple plan is currently in use in Santa Barbara and San Diego with my kids as well and their roommates (yes I do pay for Apple TV - plus cable, plus Amazon, plus a bunch of others).berserkeley said:Does anyone see this as a positive sign? A quick Google search suggests that Apple TV+ has 20-25 million subscribers and a 6% market share coming in after HBO Max, Disney+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix.calumnus said:BigDaddy said:NEWS: Apple has emerged as a potential landing spot for Pac 12, The Post has learned.
— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) February 21, 2023
More in story ...https://t.co/MMALO2BkFO
Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?
Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
Perhaps Kliavkoff can find a way to get Myspace to stream Pac-12 games ....
PAC 12 network has direct to consumer reach of 12 million subscribers - about a third of California. Exciting distribution that Cal was on 8 times last year.
There is no doubt I would prefer to watch all the sports on my comcast linked TIVO, but frankly it is pretty easy to switch the input on the TV and get to the there inputs.
Pac 12 network distribution was obviously not good, but you are mixing up TV households and population - CA has around 14 million TV households and the Pac 12 states around 25 million households. In market TV penetration rates were decent for p12N, but there were terrible options out of market.
Apple TV would at least give every tv viewer in the country and reasonable way to watch P12 content. Non fans won't buy it, but they wound have watched anyway. For actual p12 fans - especially those who have cut to the cord or are thinking about it - a compete package with apple tv (Like MLS) would be great because they would get all games. I have no idea on the details, no one does. If the AD at ASU believes the $$$ ate enough to work for stability, that is a very positive sign, since ASU has an easy path to jump to the Big 12.
MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
ColoradoBear said:MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
While I am sure Ray Anderson (ASU AD) has some influence the ASU vote resides with ASU President Michael Crow. Crow was perhaps the biggest supporter of Larry Scott and wants to stay in the P12. He is not happy with Kliavkoff though if you believe the reporting.ColoradoBear said:Oski87 said:50 million subscribers - 25 million paid subscribers. The rest are people who have deals - like ATT get apple TV for a year, etc. Similar to HBO...I got it from ATT phone. But I watch HBO max all the time. And my apple plan is currently in use in Santa Barbara and San Diego with my kids as well and their roommates (yes I do pay for Apple TV - plus cable, plus Amazon, plus a bunch of others).berserkeley said:Does anyone see this as a positive sign? A quick Google search suggests that Apple TV+ has 20-25 million subscribers and a 6% market share coming in after HBO Max, Disney+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix.calumnus said:BigDaddy said:NEWS: Apple has emerged as a potential landing spot for Pac 12, The Post has learned.
— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) February 21, 2023
More in story ...https://t.co/MMALO2BkFO
Crazy that we are not at least owning the "After Dark" broadcast slot. What will ESPN broadcast after the SEC games? MWC games?
Having cut the cord and living out on an island in the Pacific, a streaming deal with Apple is actually really great for me and my wife. I just don't see it being great for Cal.
Perhaps Kliavkoff can find a way to get Myspace to stream Pac-12 games ....
PAC 12 network has direct to consumer reach of 12 million subscribers - about a third of California. Exciting distribution that Cal was on 8 times last year.
There is no doubt I would prefer to watch all the sports on my comcast linked TIVO, but frankly it is pretty easy to switch the input on the TV and get to the there inputs.
Pac 12 network distribution was obviously not good, but you are mixing up TV households and population - CA has around 14 million TV households and the Pac 12 states around 25 million households. In market TV penetration rates were decent for p12N, but there were terrible options out of market.
Apple TV would at least give every tv viewer in the country and reasonable way to watch P12 content. Non fans won't buy it, but they wound have watched anyway. For actual p12 fans - especially those who have cut to the cord or are thinking about it - a compete package with apple tv (Like MLS) would be great because they would get all games. I have no idea on the details, no one does. If the AD at ASU believes the $$$ ate enough to work for stability, that is a very positive sign, since ASU has an easy path to jump to the Big 12.
Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:ColoradoBear said:MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.
Those are all moving targets and will be moving until a deal is actually approved. The Four Corners schools love the SoCal recruiting base, so they may be willing to accept "slightly" (however defined) less money from the p12 for trips west, and remain. The Arizona schools have thousands of students from California and continued contact with the state may sway Presidents' votes.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:ColoradoBear said:MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.
IMO that's not enough.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.ColoradoBear said:Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
BearSD said:IMO that's not enough.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.ColoradoBear said:Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
Any amount below $30 million just invites the Big Ten, whenever they decide to expand again, to offer $30 million/year to any Pac school they want (perhaps with the promise that they'll get a full share in the next Big Ten TV contract). Anything under $30 million also makes the outreach from Pac members to the Big Ten even more desperate than it already is.
Just barely more than the Big 12 could offer to a Pac team isn't enough to keep members around, either. The Big 12 offers stability, because they have no one the Big Ten would ever add. Despite what the ASU AD said the other day, ASU would be the first school to jump to the Big 12. ASU isn't an AAU member (whereas UA, UU, and CU all are), thus ASU has no prospect of even a longshot invitation to the Big Ten, so they have nothing to lose by locking in longterm stability in the Big 12.
juarezbear said:BearSD said:IMO that's not enough.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.ColoradoBear said:Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
Any amount below $30 million just invites the Big Ten, whenever they decide to expand again, to offer $30 million/year to any Pac school they want (perhaps with the promise that they'll get a full share in the next Big Ten TV contract). Anything under $30 million also makes the outreach from Pac members to the Big Ten even more desperate than it already is.
Just barely more than the Big 12 could offer to a Pac team isn't enough to keep members around, either. The Big 12 offers stability, because they have no one the Big Ten would ever add. Despite what the ASU AD said the other day, ASU would be the first school to jump to the Big 12. ASU isn't an AAU member (whereas UA, UU, and CU all are), thus ASU has no prospect of even a longshot invitation to the Big Ten, so they have nothing to lose by locking in longterm stability in the Big 12.
If this indeed heads Apple's way, it seems to me that they'd want the Pac to be healthy and stable as they build their sports business. I know from somebody at MLS that Apple is spending a ton of money on their new MLS deal that exclusively broadcasts all MLS games. I would think that Pac 10 football would have at least as high a viewership as MLS, thus Apple should pay enough to ensure that the Pac 10 teams will be loyal to the conference. I'm curious what would happen to the Pac 12 network and all the coverage of the Olympic sports. I'm probably one of a few people who looks forward to seeing a lot of the non-revenue sports and hope that survives somehow.
If this report of high 20s is accurate then I predict the conference is dead.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:ColoradoBear said:MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.
Econ141 said:juarezbear said:BearSD said:IMO that's not enough.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.ColoradoBear said:Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
Any amount below $30 million just invites the Big Ten, whenever they decide to expand again, to offer $30 million/year to any Pac school they want (perhaps with the promise that they'll get a full share in the next Big Ten TV contract). Anything under $30 million also makes the outreach from Pac members to the Big Ten even more desperate than it already is.
Just barely more than the Big 12 could offer to a Pac team isn't enough to keep members around, either. The Big 12 offers stability, because they have no one the Big Ten would ever add. Despite what the ASU AD said the other day, ASU would be the first school to jump to the Big 12. ASU isn't an AAU member (whereas UA, UU, and CU all are), thus ASU has no prospect of even a longshot invitation to the Big Ten, so they have nothing to lose by locking in longterm stability in the Big 12.
If this indeed heads Apple's way, it seems to me that they'd want the Pac to be healthy and stable as they build their sports business. I know from somebody at MLS that Apple is spending a ton of money on their new MLS deal that exclusively broadcasts all MLS games. I would think that Pac 10 football would have at least as high a viewership as MLS, thus Apple should pay enough to ensure that the Pac 10 teams will be loyal to the conference. I'm curious what would happen to the Pac 12 network and all the coverage of the Olympic sports. I'm probably one of a few people who looks forward to seeing a lot of the non-revenue sports and hope that survives somehow.
I have asked this question in other threads but have never gotten a response. Shouldnt the media companies involved in pac-12 media rights look at this as an investment? I mean if I'm Apple, I'm thinking hey - let me get these teams closer competitively to what the B1G offers so that they can potentially be as good a product. I mean imagine a conference where Cal, Stanford, UW, Oregon, and Utah are all strong. That would be a super exciting conference which a bunch of teams like Ore St, WSU, SDSU also being exciting and competitive. If they low ball us or put us many tens of millions behind B1G we will just continue to be a crap product.
I think these media companies should get more involved in how the schools especially Cal run their program. Like venture capitalists - we are going to give XX million / per year but need you to make the following changes...etc.
Are the media companies looking at this as an investment or just getting inventory on the cheap? The former can provide a lot higher ROI if done right.
Apple still has not made formal offer for Pac-12’s media rights, but ION television has emerged as a potential Pac-12 partner, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ. ION TV is owned by E.W. Scripps Company, which has 61 local TV stations nationwide & launched Scripps Sports this year
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 24, 2023
ION/Scripps Sports is not involved in the Pac-12's TV negotiations, a source with direct knowledge of the situation tells @TheAthletic.
— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) February 24, 2023
okaydo said:Apple still has not made formal offer for Pac-12’s media rights, but ION television has emerged as a potential Pac-12 partner, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ. ION TV is owned by E.W. Scripps Company, which has 61 local TV stations nationwide & launched Scripps Sports this year
— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) February 24, 2023
That is assuming a couple things.tequila4kapp said:If this report of high 20s is accurate then I predict the conference is dead.philly1121 said:Kliavkoff knows the target he has to hit. He has to hit a number that exceeds what the Big 12 expansion rate would be for any new schools entering. From ESPN, if the Big 12 expands, the new schools would get 63% pro rata revenue. That's about $20 million. Get above $20M to keep the conference together and to have it make sense for SDSU and SMU to join.calumnus said:ColoradoBear said:MTbear22 said:
Supposedly Utah AD is saying high 20s and mostly streaming. Ray Anderson from ASU was quoted saying something like "not like initial projections but should be enough to hold us together."
Just for reference, the media payout for the final 2023-24 contract year will be $26.75 million.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2013/06/19/Media/Pac12.aspx
Length of contract and annual escalator amount is important too.
So, it looks like the new contract will likely generate more money than we currently receive, but not as much as the even the Big12 gets.
Remember, the P12 is protecting against two conferences, not just the B12. That number works great to protect against the 4 corner schools leaving for the B12. But if I am the B10 and the P12 number is say 29m, I'm coming in and offering UW, UO, Cal and Furd 35m with a timeline for getting to full payment. Maybe 40m.
How could the schools say no? They'd get 5 west coast games per year in their pod. They could schedule non-con games as they currently do to manage travel. That leaves 4 games. 2 of those will be home. So for 6-11m extra dollars your football team travels twice. Same basic dynamic for all other sports. AND the schools are on a timeline for substantially more money than they will ever make in the P12. Impact to student athletes is negligible vs traveling to Dallas, SD and Seattle.
From the B12 perspective they will own the west coast, own the late time frames on Saturday and they will own the #2, #6, #12 and #21 tv markets...all at a substantial discount. They give SC/UCLA their supposedly promised west coast pod (again, at a huge discount). They gain 3 really great academic schools that are very aligned to their academic mission. And by adding SC and Furd they make a potential ND addition that much more appealing/likely to the Irish.
McMurphy stated that Apple hadn't made a formal offer - which is different that not having discussions. Where are you seeing that?philly1121 said:
And now, with recent posts on Twitter - if Apple hasn't had discussion with us and instead we have ION TV - which today was the first I have heard of it - it doesn't bode well. Six schools likely head off to the B1G and Big 12, leaving 4 to figure things out.
philly1121 said:
That is assuming a couple things.
First, that the Big 10 is interested in creating a West Coast "pod".
Secondly, that USC and UCLA were promised a West Coast "pod" prior to their agreeing to go to to the B1G and even making that a condition. This seems completely far fetched. We would have heard about this and it would have made all of this marketing maneuvering unnecessary and pointless.USC
I get it on youtube tv.Big Dog said:
btw; ION is carried by several cable networks including Spectrum and Cox, as well as Direct TV. (Hey Larry Scott..)