Illegal Immigration

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dajo9
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In reply to oski003 • 1:45p, 4/24/22
oski003 said:
chazzed said:




Thank you Biden
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Zippergate
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8:48a, 10/3/23
dimitrig on the Russia board wrote:

If there weren't any jobs here the illegals wouldn't come. In fact, we saw that during the COVID shutdown. The business owners are definitely part of the problem and they aren't pressuring the state to do anything because they benefit. Start penalizing employers and I think you would see immigration rates drop.

I actually agree with your last sentence. So why is that not happening? How likely is it that the party championing sanctuary cities is going to punish employers for hiring illegals?
But illegal employment is only part of the problem. What about the criminals, drug runners, human traffickers, spies and terrorists? Normal countries protect their borders. Normal countries at least strive to protect their citizens from all these threats.
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sycasey
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8:58a, 10/3/23
Sanctuary cities are simply a response to the fact that immigration systems have been busted in this country for a long time. How is it that after all these decades we STILL have no solution for so-called "Dreamers," a.k.a. people who were brought to the US as children and have lived their entire adult lives here? How is there no path to citizenship for them?

Address that root issue and you address a lot of the other things that are attempts at band-aid solutions at best. And if you want to know which party has largely blocked immigration reform at the federal level . . . well, it ain't the Democrats.
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Zippergate
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In reply to sycasey • 9:35a, 10/3/23
sycasey said:
Sanctuary cities are simply a response to the fact that immigration systems have been busted in this country for a long time. How is it that after all these decades we STILL have no solution for so-called "Dreamers," a.k.a. people who were brought to the US as children and have lived their entire adult lives here? How is there no path to citizenship for them?

Address that root issue and you address a lot of the other things that are attempts at band-aid solutions at best. And if you want to know which party has largely blocked immigration reform at the federal level . . . well, it ain't the Democrats.
The real dreamers are the Democrats who don't understand that people respond to incentives. If having a child born here is an automatic path to citizenship, what do you think that incentivizes? How kind of message does it send when illegals can get drivers' licenses, free medical, food stamps, child care, education catered to them, even unemployment? I don't care about party; I care about policy.

The right policy is to stop incentivizing illegal immigration, enforce employment laws, and build and patrol the border. Immigration based on skills first, then family connections, authentic asylum seekers (but should be rare), and then by lottery. Breaking our laws by crossing the border gets you nothing and your children nothing. If the all the authorities are on board, this is not a problem in the slightest as illegal families with children will not be here long enough for it to have any meaning.
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sycasey
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In reply to Zippergate • 10:15a, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
sycasey said:
Sanctuary cities are simply a response to the fact that immigration systems have been busted in this country for a long time. How is it that after all these decades we STILL have no solution for so-called "Dreamers," a.k.a. people who were brought to the US as children and have lived their entire adult lives here? How is there no path to citizenship for them?

Address that root issue and you address a lot of the other things that are attempts at band-aid solutions at best. And if you want to know which party has largely blocked immigration reform at the federal level . . . well, it ain't the Democrats.
The real dreamers are the Democrats who don't understand that people respond to incentives. If having a child born here is an automatic path to citizenship, what do you think that incentivizes? How kind of message does it send when illegals can get drivers' licenses, free medical, food stamps, child care, education catered to them, even unemployment? I don't care about party; I care about policy.

The right policy is to stop incentivizing illegal immigration, enforce employment laws, and build and patrol the border. Immigration based on skills first, then family connections, authentic asylum seekers (but should be rare), and then by lottery. Breaking our laws by crossing the border gets you nothing and your children nothing. If the all the authorities are on board, this is not a problem in the slightest as illegal families with children will not be here long enough for it to have any meaning.
We can leave the partisan framing out if it if you'd like (neither Democrats nor Republicans are perfect on immigration policy), but the last I will say on that is that there is and has been a deal on the table in Congress where Democrats will accept higher border security in exchange for protections and a citizenship path for Dreamers. That sounds fair to me, but as always Republicans keep scuttling it.

Anyway, I think your policy could work if we actually had the resources to police everyone who somehow enters the country illegally, but in practice it doesn't. The country is too big and there are too many entry points. You still need a policy for the people who enter and manage to stay for a while. You also need a policy for people who don't necessarily want to stay but who do want to enter and do seasonal work; the tight border policies of recent years don't stop these people from entering, but do stop them from going back. We should have pretty liberal policies around temporary work permits too. Business owners will like it and it will add to the general economy.
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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 10:41a, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
sycasey said:
Sanctuary cities are simply a response to the fact that immigration systems have been busted in this country for a long time. How is it that after all these decades we STILL have no solution for so-called "Dreamers," a.k.a. people who were brought to the US as children and have lived their entire adult lives here? How is there no path to citizenship for them?

Address that root issue and you address a lot of the other things that are attempts at band-aid solutions at best. And if you want to know which party has largely blocked immigration reform at the federal level . . . well, it ain't the Democrats.
The real dreamers are the Democrats who don't understand that people respond to incentives. If having a child born here is an automatic path to citizenship, what do you think that incentivizes? How kind of message does it send when illegals can get drivers' licenses, free medical, food stamps, child care, education catered to them, even unemployment? I don't care about party; I care about policy.

The right policy is to stop incentivizing illegal immigration, enforce employment laws, and build and patrol the border. Immigration based on skills first, then family connections, authentic asylum seekers (but should be rare), and then by lottery. Breaking our laws by crossing the border gets you nothing and your children nothing. If the all the authorities are on board, this is not a problem in the slightest as illegal families with children will not be here long enough for it to have any meaning.


What legislation has the Republican House passed? Where is the Constitutional movement to change birthright citizenship?

I am for dreamers, reduced amnesty protections, stronger border security, and against birthright citizenship.

But, above all, I'm against injecting racism into our politics and therefore I side with Democrats on the issue.
Happy Roevember
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Zippergate
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In reply to dajo9 • 11:18a, 10/3/23
I think it is racist to advantage some groups who aren't even citizens at the expense of those who are.
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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 11:20a, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
I think it is racist to advantage some groups who aren't even citizens at the expense of those who are.


That's because people like you don't care about racism
Happy Roevember
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Zippergate
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In reply to dajo9 • 11:48a, 10/3/23
Lol. I'm sure this plays well with your type. So border chaos then. In the long run that will be great for no one including the illegals.
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Zippergate
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12:04p, 10/3/23
And by the way, clearly there will have to be an amnesty in any reasonable path forward. But amnesty will serve no purpose (and will make things worse) if we do not make the changes I suggested above. There has to be a clear declaration starting immediately: NO MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Anyone entering after the announcement has no right to be a part of the American enterprise and will be deported. I don't care which party advances this. If it makes you feel better to blame the Republicans for this not happening, fine, but then you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. The Democrats care about creating dependents and winning elections, nothing more. And btw, the Democratic Party is the party of racism. Watch Larry Elder's great documentary, "Uncle Tom."
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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 12:37p, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
Lol. I'm sure this plays well with your type. So border chaos then. In the long run that will be great for no one including the illegals.


What legislation has the Republican House passed on the issue?
Happy Roevember
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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 12:54p, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
And by the way, clearly there will have to be an amnesty in any reasonable path forward. But amnesty will serve no purpose (and will make things worse) if we do not make the changes I suggested above. There has to be a clear declaration starting immediately: NO MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Anyone entering after the announcement has no right to be a part of the American enterprise and will be deported. I don't care which party advances this. If it makes you feel better to blame the Republicans for this not happening, fine, but then you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. The Democrats care about creating dependents and winning elections, nothing more. And btw, the Democratic Party is the party of racism. Watch Larry Elder's great documentary, "Uncle Tom."


Also, what you are asking for can't be done. No Congress can bind a future Congress.
Happy Roevember
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concordtom
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1:27p, 10/3/23
Republicans can't even negotiate amongst themselves.
We know they won't negotiate with Democrats on the border.

Rather than addressing the issue, GOP would rather keep the border messed up to stir up the population's fear quotient - fear is their #1 re-election factor.

Republican Party is the party of chaos, not of progress.
Republican Party holds us back.
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concordtom
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In reply to Zippergate • 1:35p, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
I think it is racist to advantage some groups who aren't even citizens at the expense of those who are.


Is it racist to divide people into categories of citizens vs non-citizens, at least so much as you are reasoning?

Let's face it, you don't care about their nationality status. You care because they speak a different language, have different skin color, pray to Allah, and wear different clothes.

I bet you wouldn't care if these immigrants were from England or Ireland. Because, from an economic perspective, immigrants are a plus for GDP and standard of living.

They will be wiping your bunghole when you are laying flat in your last days. Make sure you thank them, else tell them your anti-immigration views beforehand.
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Zippergate
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In reply to concordtom • 1:36p, 10/3/23
concordtom said:
Republicans can't even negotiate amongst themselves.
We know they won't negotiate with Democrats on the border.

Rather than addressing the issue, GOP would rather keep the border messed up to stir up the population's fear quotient - fear is their #1 re-election factor.

Republican Party is the party of chaos, not of progress.
Republican Party holds us back.
I wonder if you realize that this critique cuts both ways. Where is the Democratic plan that solves the problem? If you want to pretend that such a plan has been presented, then there is no point to further discussion.
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sycasey
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In reply to Zippergate • 2:26p, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
And by the way, clearly there will have to be an amnesty in any reasonable path forward. But amnesty will serve no purpose (and will make things worse) if we do not make the changes I suggested above. There has to be a clear declaration starting immediately: NO MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Anyone entering after the announcement has no right to be a part of the American enterprise and will be deported. I don't care which party advances this. If it makes you feel better to blame the Republicans for this not happening, fine, but then you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. The Democrats care about creating dependents and winning elections, nothing more. And btw, the Democratic Party is the party of racism. Watch Larry Elder's great documentary, "Uncle Tom."
I thought you didn't care about political parties.
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concordtom
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In reply to Zippergate • 3:07p, 10/3/23
Zippergate said:
concordtom said:
Republicans can't even negotiate amongst themselves.
We know they won't negotiate with Democrats on the border.

Rather than addressing the issue, GOP would rather keep the border messed up to stir up the population's fear quotient - fear is their #1 re-election factor.

Republican Party is the party of chaos, not of progress.
Republican Party holds us back.
I wonder if you realize that this critique cuts both ways. Where is the Democratic plan that solves the problem? If you want to pretend that such a plan has been presented, then there is no point to further discussion.


Duh. The democrat plan dates to Obama who sought protection for the dreamers - people brought here when they had nothing to do with the decision - raised here, and know no other home.

Republicans said no, export them.

To where?? They are now Americans in pretty much all manner and right!
That's where it stands.
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BearHunter
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3:13p, 10/3/23
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dajo9
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In reply to BearHunter • 3:47p, 10/3/23
BearHunter said:


If you love Pakistan so much you should move there
Happy Roevember
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Cal88
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In reply to dajo9 • 7:26p, 10/3/23
dajo9 said:
BearHunter said:

If you love Pakistan so much you should move there

That country could have done a lot better if its government weren't constantly interfered with by US neocons, who have recently organized a coup to oust sitting President Imran Khan, in cahoots with that country's corrupt ruling military class. Pakistan is located at the crossroads between central Asia and the Middle East and Indian Ocean, its neighbors are experiencing fast economic growth.

Pakistan has been one of the main purveyors of ammunition for Ukraine.
https://sundayguardianlive.com/world/pak-emerges-as-major-supplier-of-ammunition-to-ukraine-in-war-with-russia
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Zippergate
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8:18p, 10/4/23
Well, well, well...

Can someone of the Team Blue explain this to me?

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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 8:47p, 10/4/23
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it
Happy Roevember
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oski003
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In reply to dajo9 • 9:07p, 10/4/23
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html
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dajo9
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In reply to oski003 • 9:21p, 10/4/23
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Trump would know all about that. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.
Happy Roevember
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oski003
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In reply to dajo9 • 9:27p, 10/4/23
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.


There are not rapists in any large group of men. That's sexist. These immigrants aren't all from Mexico. Many travel through Mexico to get here but are from lots of different places. Many of these countries have gangs with an extraordinary amount of political power. Many gang members illegally immigrate here, and we do little to stop them. FYI, the story I posted is from today.
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dajo9
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In reply to oski003 • 9:30p, 10/4/23
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.


There are not rapists in any large group of men. That's sexist. These immigrants aren't all from Mexico. Many travel through Mexico to get here but are from lots of different places. Many of these countries have gangs with an extraordinary amount of political power. Many gang members illegally immigrate here, and we do little to stop them. FYI, the story I posted is from today.


There are rapists in any large group of men. Not in any large group of women. Deal with it.
Happy Roevember
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Zippergate
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In reply to dajo9 • 9:44p, 10/4/23
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Trump would know all about that. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.
So we delayed the wall for years because Trump said something racist? I wonder what all the would-be immigrants from all over the world headed to the US thanks to the bright, flashing neon "Welcome!" sign non-racist Biden put up will do when they arrive at the makeshift border wall Biden is assembling for his photo shoot.
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oski003
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In reply to dajo9 • 9:47p, 10/4/23
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.


There are not rapists in any large group of men. That's sexist. These immigrants aren't all from Mexico. Many travel through Mexico to get here but are from lots of different places. Many of these countries have gangs with an extraordinary amount of political power. Many gang members illegally immigrate here, and we do little to stop them. FYI, the story I posted is from today.


There are rapists in any large group of men. Not in any large group of women. Deal with it.


I suppose we are now arguing over how many people are in a large group. Anyway, if you are trying to say there are rapists in the illegal immigrants because there are so many of them, there is truth to that. However, I guarantee that we could screen out many of these rapists with proper border control and intake. Of course we wouldn't get all of them, but it certainly beats catch and release with little barriers to illegal entry. Even when hiring warehouse workers, I or others still interview them and have them take a quick logic test. I don't just leave the windows open and hire the first folks who can break into my warehouse.
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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 5:32a, 10/5/23
Zippergate said:
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Trump would know all about that. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.
So we delayed the wall for years because Trump said something racist? I wonder what all the would-be immigrants from all over the world headed to the US thanks to the bright, flashing neon "Welcome!" sign non-racist Biden put up will do when they arrive at the makeshift border wall Biden is assembling for his photo shoot.


Yes, don't be a racist asshat if you want support for your policies. I feel very strongly about that.
Happy Roevember
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Zippergate
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In reply to dajo9 • 8:06a, 10/5/23
dajo9 said:
Zippergate said:
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Trump would know all about that. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.
So we delayed the wall for years because Trump said something racist? I wonder what all the would-be immigrants from all over the world headed to the US thanks to the bright, flashing neon "Welcome!" sign non-racist Biden put up will do when they arrive at the makeshift border wall Biden is assembling for his photo shoot.


Yes, don't be a racist asshat if you want support for your policies. I feel very strongly about that.
"Your" policies? It's Biden's policy now. But only after the problem was intentionally made much worse. I feel strongly that we should arrive at the right policies and the sooner the better.

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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 10:19a, 10/5/23
Zippergate said:
dajo9 said:
Zippergate said:
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
It's not accompanied by comments about Mexican immigrants being rapists so I'm all for it


11 of the rapists here will be processed by US Border Patrol. I don't know how many other rapists there were. The aim should be to better control which immigrants enter and stay in our country.

https://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-rape-11-old-130745219.html


There are rapists in any large group of men. Trump would know all about that. Singling out immigrants from Mexico is racist and can't get support from me.
So we delayed the wall for years because Trump said something racist? I wonder what all the would-be immigrants from all over the world headed to the US thanks to the bright, flashing neon "Welcome!" sign non-racist Biden put up will do when they arrive at the makeshift border wall Biden is assembling for his photo shoot.


Yes, don't be a racist asshat if you want support for your policies. I feel very strongly about that.
"Your" policies? It's Biden's policy now. But only after the problem was intentionally made much worse. I feel strongly that we should arrive at the right policies and the sooner the better.

Biden's policy on the wall is still better than Trump's because Trump's stupid policy was to build a wall across the whole border. A wall that is not monitored is easily passed. Trump's wall would have just been a big giant stupid monument to racism.

Biden is adding 20 miles of wall in a specific area to address a specific problem because circumstances have changed since 2020. Flexibility to new circumstances is not a liability for politicians for many of us. In fact, it is a positive. If Traitor Trump were the great President you think he was, there would have already been a wall there.
Happy Roevember
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bearister
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10:39a, 10/5/23
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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Zippergate
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In reply to bearister • 10:50a, 10/5/23
So we don't really want the wall, orange man bad, so that's why Biden is using an executive order to overturn 26 federal laws to allow construction. We're just being flexible and addressing a specific problem area, a 20 mile section of a 2,000 mile border, because we want the invasion to continue, we just don't want it concentrated in places where evil, heartless Republicans do photo ops. Do I have that about right?
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dajo9
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In reply to Zippergate • 12:15p, 10/5/23
Nope
Happy Roevember
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Zippergate
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In reply to dajo9 • 12:33p, 10/5/23
Trump's wall would have just been a big giant stupid monument to racism.

So we don't want a giant stupid monument to racism, just a small, token monument that accomplishes nothing?

If Traitor Trump were the great President you think he was, there would have already been a wall there.

I agree with you there, but Team Blue had a little something to do with blocking the evil monument to racism that they don't want but are now building. I guess government shutdowns are bad unless we're not getting what we want.



Just trying to understand.
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