Did the old man **** the bed? It will be a pox upon his house.

Fox News legal analyst says Trump call with Ukraine leader could be 'more serious' than what Mueller 'dragged up'

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/462704-fox-news-legal-analyst-says-trump-call-with-ukraine-leader-could-be-more

Fox News' Napolitano: What Trump Has Admitted to Is a Crime

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-napolitano-to-shepard-smith-what-trump-has-admitted-to-is-a-crime/

There's suppose to be some internal dialogue about if Jerry Nadler and the House Judiciary Comm or Adam Schiff and the House Intel Comm should take the lead on impeachment. I don't know how impeachment works but I know Schiff is a former federal prosecutor and Trump hates him. So in that case...Schiff should lead. Schiff will have the dual effect of personally annoying Trump and having the legal chops to cut him up.

BearForce2 said:

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What happened to 3 years of Russia Collusion? oh yeah.

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I take all my cues from the Chief Fox News Legal Analyst....or is he going to be replaced by Tucker Carlson now?

three-dimensional air-hockey, Biden noteriety nomination bump, impeachment bump due to sheer drumph fatigue reaction, second term and debatable whether he wants it






https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/24/hes-gone-grateful-dead-legend-robert-hunter-dead-at-78/

If Congress impeaches tRump, how can any attorney on earth prepare him to testify on his own behalf during the trial before the Senate? He lives in an alternate reality like OJ.



This may be the only attorneys who can do it:

Giuliani pursued shadow Ukraine agenda as key foreign policy officials were sidelined


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/giuliani-pursued-shadow-ukraine-agenda-as-key-foreign-policy-officials-were-sidelined/2019/09/24/ee18aaec-deec-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html

As a lefty progressive, let me just say that you guys are nuts. As long as Senate Republicans have Trump's back and coordinate with him on anything they decide to do (even releasing transcripts which I'm sure will be totally un-doctored), and more or less the judiciary has Trump's back as well, he is Teflon. This is going to end in more tears for the Dems.

It has nothing to do with justice. The issue is not whether Trump and his enablers are guilty. Of course he is (and some of them are) guilty just as OJ was. But they are not going to be punished for it. Not now and not like this. Maybe much later, 6 or more years from now when he is (possibly) no longer President.

In the meantime, his supporters, projecting as always, will convince themselves and up to 40%+ of the country that the Dems are doing nothing but making stuff up to try to smear an opponent. Because that's what they themselves try to do, so they assume that's what everyone must be doing. And to be sure, they'll have a small fraction of a point as some of Trump's opponents will overstep, as they have before, and that will become evidence to the 40% that the whole thing is bogus, even while they buy hook line and sinker every bogosity spewed by the White House weekly. Even in the Mueller report, it's clear that the President obstructed justice, but that the narrow interpretation used by the report left it up to others to decide on whether to convict. So those in the Trump cult or orbiting the cult, the Mueller report somehow became... an exoneration.

There is a small possibility of changing all this and taking our country back at the ballot box in 2020, overcoming the inherent disadvantages of the Electoral College and Senate (not to mention voter suppression) that make his supporters' votes count more than everyone else's. But that is the only way. If all this latest stuff helps with that, ok, but I doubt it.

Tits in a wringer libs. Bad move....Biden & Son go down. Lefties win out, and blown out like Eugene back in the Dark Ages.

OdontoBear66 said:

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Tits in a wringer libs. Bad move....Biden & Son go down. Lefties win out, and blown out like Eugene back in the Dark Ages.

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You don't have to be liberal to hate tRump and his Crime Family. This is really upsetting to him. It stains him no matter how it turns out. He probably has to throw Rudy under the bus. If Congress impeaches him he will be humiliated testifying at the trial before the Senate because he is too stupid and mentally degraded for any witness prep by an attorney. I don't care if he wins again. His policies favor me financially and f@ucks over much of his base. I always vote against my best financial interests, as does much of his base except those birdbrains don't realize it.

The reality is the Senate is phase 2 of impeachment and they hold the trial, so yes, the current senate won't do anything, and will obstruct.

That said, the issue is too big, because Trump admitted to everything, talking to a foreign head of state to leverage U.S. aid to get dirt on Biden. The inspector general for U.S. Intel is involved. I imagine they have something simple but direct, unlike the Mueller report that was 400+ pages and convoluted...and thus easier to dismiss and obstruct.

My take is the Dems had to take a stand even if the Senate won't do anything. To paraphrase Pelosi, "we know Trump is unfit to serve but now the criminal activity is clear". Once it became clear, blatant and realively simple, the Dems and House had to do something because that's their duty, to serve and protect.

Yes there is danger here because Trump will play the media and it's said he wants impeachment so he can get a "win". That could happen but I think Trump's head explodes from the pressure and he craps his pants....and then he'll do something really, really, really stupid, blatant and criminal...because he's stupid and incompetent. I think Trump sinks his own ship...I just don't know how.

Sometimes you have to fight the good fight even if you have a good chance to lose. It's about standing up for the rule of law. If no one takes a stand...then just stand back and watch as U.S. democracy gets flushed down the crapper. You can't run a democracy if the head of state is a criminal and lawless. Impeachment is suppose to be difficult or it would be used all the time.

The thing is, the U.S. doesn't need a "win" and complete removal of the potus. That has never happened. I think the point is set the record straight and get Trump's crimes on the book. The destruction and division will push for a resolution, kind of like Brexit right now...total beotch...but you have to face up it head on.

Trump and Ukraine-gate is a much easier crime to understand and explain. It doesn't require collaboration and deep investigation. Also Trump's duplicity is very clear. He doesn't have the same cover. Different game.

America is too slow and stupid to read the whole Mueller report...or everyone is looking at their phone. The Mueller report couldn't be reduced to sound bites or a simple idea.

Ukraine-gate however can be: Trump tried to leverage U.S. aid to get a dirt on an opponent and that's illegal and a security risk. The circle of those involved is much smaller (a few people) and no one needs to go to Russia. And one person, the whistleblower, is willing and ready to talk. Yes the GOP will try and sink this but again...less cover to hide, more straightforward of a crime.

Go Bears!

tRump responding to a question is like a Trane sax solo, sheets of sound, rapid-fire improvisations and bold, cathartic wails.

okaydo said:

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The fact Ukraine-gate can be summarized in one regular news article, or three paragraphs, says a lot. I can understand why Nancy Pelosi took this on. The narrative is short, fairly concise and clear, unlike the Mueller report. It si also recent, July of this year.

Mueller took a year to compete and it would have taken four more to slog through to even get things clear...all while Trump and Rudy distracted daily. It was never going to happen.

Ukraine-gate is a lot more cut and dried and those involved are Americans (minus the Ukrainians) inside the intel community and it happened fairly recently. It reads like a mafia story, godfather tells consigliere to broker a deal. That's what Rudy try to do, or did do.

The biggest take away is really...they're that stupid? Trump and Giuliani tried to run a shadow operation under the noses of intel, diplomats and security people, to get dirt on Biden? This isn't some loose and vague internet influence deal with fake news...this is direct influencing in person, by dispatch. If there are people willing to talk, this is very different.

Senate will still do nothing...but at risk of coughing up their majority in the 2020 election.

Another Bear said:

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...The biggest take away is really...they're that stupid? Trump and Giuliani tried to run a shadow operation under the noses of intel, diplomats and security people....

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Yep. Guys like tRump and Rudy always think they are the smartest guys in the room....just like Ed Norton in The Score when he thought he had double crossed his partner in crime, Bobby D, out of the $4 million jewel encrusted scepture...but then...

bearister said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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Tits in a wringer libs. Bad move....Biden & Son go down. Lefties win out, and blown out like Eugene back in the Dark Ages.

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You don't have to be liberal to hate tRump and his Crime Family. This is really upsetting to him. It stains him no matter how it turns out. He probably has to throw Rudy under the bus. If Congress impeaches him he will be humiliated testifying at the trial before the Senate because he is too stupid and mentally degraded for any witness prep by an attorney. I don't care if he wins again. His policies favor me financially and f@ucks over much of his base. I always vote against my best financial interests, as does much of his base except those birdbrains don't realize it.

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So in the long run do you think this move helps or hurts what is unfolding in the Dem Party? Energizing bases etc. Is this a good move?

Two photos, one video!!

Use the committees to investigate the F out of this pie-hole. Subpoena his taxes. Force the Supreme Court to rule on 50 shades of grey about this P-rick.
Send him to the guillotine.

bearister said:

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Another Bear said:

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...The biggest take away is really...they're that stupid? Trump and Giuliani tried to run a shadow operation under the noses of intel, diplomats and security people....

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Yep. Guys like tRump and Rudy always think they are the smartest guys in the room....just like Ed Norton in The Score when he thought he had double crossed his partner in crime, Bobby D, out of the $4 million jewel encrusted scripture....but then...

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I'll have to put that film on the list. Never heard of it.

By the way, is there ANY way that we can trust that the transcript, soon to be released, will be accurate and unaltered?????

No.
If it's a tepid look, not worthy of a whistleblower complaint, i will believe that trump had it cleaned up.

Trump and his people are complete liars.
Sinners go to hell.

concordtom said:

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I'll have to put that film on the list. Never heard of it.

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A pretty solid film. Advertised with the tag line, "Starring the 3 greatest actors of their generation, Brando, DeNiro and Norton."*

*Although Brando's was little more than a cameo appearance ....and Norton was young and still chewing the scenery a bit.

There are a few films some 20 years ago they I recall Ed Norton in, and he was pretty good. But what the hell has he done lately?

Transcript is online.

bearister said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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...So in the long run do you think this move helps or hurts what is unfolding in the Dem Party? Energizing bases etc. Is this a good move?

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Totally speculative. You just have to do the right thing and to Hell with the consequences.

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This plus the Trump base is resilient but not growing. No one is entering his base but people are leaving through expiration, suicide, etc. I don't see how anyone who hates Trump will be bothered by this inquiry, and most people hate Trump.

It's still an open question as to who the dem nominee will be but as in 2016, Trump's only hope is that they choose someone whose popularity does not far exceed his own.

If this whole saga is really Biden's undoing it might actually be good for the Dems. On the other hand, what no one on the Republican side of the fence seems to realize is that attacking Biden under false pretenses (which this clearly is given that the facts have shown that Biden himself did nothing wrong in Ukraine) then shouldn't they be concerned about rallying democrats and others (eg fencesitting old white oriole) to Biden's defense? Could strengthen his campaign.

Also wanted to note my favorite Republican talking point is the demand that Biden release the transcripts of his discussion with Ukraine about the chief prosecutor. They don't seem to realize that Biden isn't an elected official and has no ability to do so but someone else certainly can. Wonder why they aren't doing so.

concordtom said:

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By the way, is there ANY way that we can trust that the transcript, soon to be released, will be accurate and unaltered?????

No.
If it's a tepid look, not worthy of a whistleblower complaint, i will believe that trump had it cleaned up.

Trump and his people are complete liars.
Sinners go to hell.

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As predicted, from CBS:

The memorandum released by the Justice Department is not, according to the administration, a verbatim transcript. The text, according to the document released by the administration, is the record of the notes and recollections of the officers and National Security Council policy staff "assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form."

I'm very confident a taped recording exists somewhere, either in US, Ukraine, or at some spy shop warehouse. And while I can't know what's on that tape, I can have little confidence that this release matches that tape - because Trump and his team have descended into a pit of misinformation and lies to such an extent that they not only should be doubted but specifically disbelieved. Anything coming from his corner is a lie - that's the base starting point. He's earned it!