The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

204,597 Views | 2612 Replies | Last: 46 min ago by BearGoggles
bear2034
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Not Speaking Anymore said:

Welcome Kamala voters. Now that she lost, you can try to regain the humanity that you misplaced for a little over a year because it was Biden sending the bombs for the genocide instead of Trump.





Peace to the middle east!
Cal88
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AunBear89 said:

Is the war over yet? Trump has said he could end these conflicts on day one. Why wait until January? Get the necessary parties on the phone and do what you promised.

I'm pretty optimistic about the Ukraine war tapering down next year under Trump, however the jury is out on the even more volatile mideast.

This being said, Yogi is right, now that Trump is going to own the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, perhaps Democrats will start being more vocal about opposing it.
CaliforniaEternal
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A pogrom was orchestrated tonight in Amsterdam against Israeli soccer fans by demonic islamists. Europe has been completely overrun by illegal criminals.

AunBear89
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Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Is the war over yet? Trump has said he could end these conflicts on day one. Why wait until January? Get the necessary parties on the phone and do what you promised.

I'm pretty optimistic about the Ukraine war tapering down next year under Trump, however the jury is out on the even more volatile mideast.

This being said, Yogi is right, now that Trump is going to own the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, perhaps Democrats will start being more vocal about opposing it.


He promised on the campaign trail that he could end both conflicts on Day 1. Presumably, he's saying he'd just pick up the phone, call Vlad and then Bibi, and tell them both to stop, and they would comply.

So, I ask again: why wait until officially in office? Make those calls now and make it all better, just like he said he would.





Unless, maybe, he was a lying piece of crap and dipshyte Americans bought his con.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Cal88
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AunBear89 said:

Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Is the war over yet? Trump has said he could end these conflicts on day one. Why wait until January? Get the necessary parties on the phone and do what you promised.

I'm pretty optimistic about the Ukraine war tapering down next year under Trump, however the jury is out on the even more volatile mideast.

This being said, Yogi is right, now that Trump is going to own the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, perhaps Democrats will start being more vocal about opposing it.


He promised on the campaign trail that he could end both conflicts on Day 1. Presumably, he's saying he'd just pick up the phone, call Vlad and then Bibi, and tell them both to stop, and they would comply.

So, I ask again: why wait until officially in office? Make those calls now and make it all better, just like he said he would.

Unless, maybe, he was a lying piece of crap and dipshyte Americans bought his con.

It's Day #987 in the Ukraine war, and #395 in the Gaza Genocide, and Biden/Kamala haven't lifted a finger to try to stop these wars. In fact, the Biden administration has made sure the Ukraine war didn't stop in month #2 and is going out of their way to keep feeding the mass slaughter in Gaza.

And this has never seemed to bother you one bit. Only now you are breaching the subject of stopping these wars because they will be falling on Trump's lap.
Anarchistbear
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Trump has these weirder and weirder " coalitions"

Won Dearborn Michigan, Arab American, overwhelming for Dems 4 years ago and also the darling of Orthodox Jews.

AunBear89
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You allow your biases to cloud your reading comprehension. You continue to make assumptions about people that disagree with you. I guess that's cool if it's your side doing it.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Is the war over yet? Trump has said he could end these conflicts on day one. Why wait until January? Get the necessary parties on the phone and do what you promised.

I'm pretty optimistic about the Ukraine war tapering down next year under Trump, however the jury is out on the even more volatile mideast.

This being said, Yogi is right, now that Trump is going to own the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, perhaps Democrats will start being more vocal about opposing it.


He promised on the campaign trail that he could end both conflicts on Day 1. Presumably, he's saying he'd just pick up the phone, call Vlad and then Bibi, and tell them both to stop, and they would comply.

So, I ask again: why wait until officially in office? Make those calls now and make it all better, just like he said he would.

Unless, maybe, he was a lying piece of crap and dipshyte Americans bought his con.

It's Day #987 in the Ukraine war, and #395 in the Gaza Genocide, and Biden/Kamala haven't lifted a finger to try to stop these wars. In fact, the Biden administration has made sure the Ukraine war didn't stop in month #2 and is going out of their way to keep feeding the mass slaughter in Gaza.

And this has never seemed to bother you one bit. Only now you are breaching the subject of stopping these wars because they will be falling on Trump's lap.
LOL at Ukraine "war" and Gaza "genocide". Hamas started the war. When Israel fights back, it is not genocide.

But you can take some solace. With Trump elected, BIbi will speed things up and finish the job. Trump understands you fight to win and has the moral clarity to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah (and Iran) unconditionally.

The real question is what does Iran do? They know Trump is going to take a hard line. I could see Iran attacking now before Trump's inauguration. That would be a miscalculation. Israel will respond and Biden won't be able to dissuade them (and might not want to).
Cal88
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BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Is the war over yet? Trump has said he could end these conflicts on day one. Why wait until January? Get the necessary parties on the phone and do what you promised.

I'm pretty optimistic about the Ukraine war tapering down next year under Trump, however the jury is out on the even more volatile mideast.

This being said, Yogi is right, now that Trump is going to own the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, perhaps Democrats will start being more vocal about opposing it.


He promised on the campaign trail that he could end both conflicts on Day 1. Presumably, he's saying he'd just pick up the phone, call Vlad and then Bibi, and tell them both to stop, and they would comply.

So, I ask again: why wait until officially in office? Make those calls now and make it all better, just like he said he would.

Unless, maybe, he was a lying piece of crap and dipshyte Americans bought his con.

It's Day #987 in the Ukraine war, and #395 in the Gaza Genocide, and Biden/Kamala haven't lifted a finger to try to stop these wars. In fact, the Biden administration has made sure the Ukraine war didn't stop in month #2 and is going out of their way to keep feeding the mass slaughter in Gaza.

And this has never seemed to bother you one bit. Only now you are breaching the subject of stopping these wars because they will be falling on Trump's lap.
LOL at Ukraine "war" and Gaza "genocide". Hamas started the war. When Israel fights back, it is not genocide.

But you can take some solace. With Trump elected, BIbi will speed things up and finish the job. Trump understands you fight to win and has the moral clarity to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah (and Iran) unconditionally.

The real question is what does Iran do? They know Trump is going to take a hard line. I could see Iran attacking now before Trump's inauguration. That would be a miscalculation. Israel will respond and Biden won't be able to dissuade them (and might not want to).

When Israeli snipers put two bullets into a child's head, are they "fighting back"??





BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Cal88 said:

AunBear89 said:

Is the war over yet? Trump has said he could end these conflicts on day one. Why wait until January? Get the necessary parties on the phone and do what you promised.

I'm pretty optimistic about the Ukraine war tapering down next year under Trump, however the jury is out on the even more volatile mideast.

This being said, Yogi is right, now that Trump is going to own the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, perhaps Democrats will start being more vocal about opposing it.


He promised on the campaign trail that he could end both conflicts on Day 1. Presumably, he's saying he'd just pick up the phone, call Vlad and then Bibi, and tell them both to stop, and they would comply.

So, I ask again: why wait until officially in office? Make those calls now and make it all better, just like he said he would.

Unless, maybe, he was a lying piece of crap and dipshyte Americans bought his con.

It's Day #987 in the Ukraine war, and #395 in the Gaza Genocide, and Biden/Kamala haven't lifted a finger to try to stop these wars. In fact, the Biden administration has made sure the Ukraine war didn't stop in month #2 and is going out of their way to keep feeding the mass slaughter in Gaza.

And this has never seemed to bother you one bit. Only now you are breaching the subject of stopping these wars because they will be falling on Trump's lap.
LOL at Ukraine "war" and Gaza "genocide". Hamas started the war. When Israel fights back, it is not genocide.

But you can take some solace. With Trump elected, BIbi will speed things up and finish the job. Trump understands you fight to win and has the moral clarity to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah (and Iran) unconditionally.

The real question is what does Iran do? They know Trump is going to take a hard line. I could see Iran attacking now before Trump's inauguration. That would be a miscalculation. Israel will respond and Biden won't be able to dissuade them (and might not want to).

When Israeli snipers put two bullets into a child's head, are they "fighting back"??






The short answer is yes. I have no idea if the posts you provided are accurate (often they are not). I'm sure there is nuance beyond what you posted. For example, Palestinian "children" are often armed soldiers - it is Hamas counting deaths and the "children".

And I have no doubt that atrocities and more often mistakes have been committed by Israelis, resulting in the deaths of innocents. I wish it were not so. That is the nature of war. A war that Hamas started. A war Hamas could end by releasing hostages.

None of that makes this a genocide or changes the moral calculus. I know for a fact that the Israelis (as a whole) try to minimize the deaths of innocents. Israelis and Jews value life. That is in stark contrast to Hamas and Hezbollah who not only target innocents, but hide behind them. Hamas and Hezbollah glorify death (not life) and speak of martyrdom. That is the side and ideology you support.
bearister
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With Musk active in the Ukraine discussions and Tiffany's father in law now getting involved in the Middle East discussions, I think a couple of zoom calls in the Men's Grill at Mar a Lago over the Thanksgiving Holiday should pretty much wrap these messes up.
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tequila4kapp
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bearister said:

With Musk active in the Ukraine discussions and Tiffany's father in law now getting involved in the Middle East discussions, I think a couple of zoom calls in the Men's Grill at Mar a Lago over the Thanksgiving Holiday should pretty much wrap these messes up.
I expect the two wars to be on very different trajectories. For a variety of reasons I won't be surprised if there's a peace agreement or cease fire agreement very soon in Ukraine. But the ME may well be different. It is inherently more complex and complexity adds time. Iran is the instigator in all of this - they are a root cause. They recently tried to assassinate him. Trump previously demonstrated a view towards them that was hard line. He's not going to soften his stance. I'll predict some sort of diplomatic arrangement leveraging the signatories of the Abraham Accords to get Hamas out of Gaza, which will be the precondition to ending hostilities.
CaliforniaEternal
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Jew haters will use any pretext to justify violence against people just walking on the street. They kill children! They killed Jesus! They all need to be deported back to Syria or wherever they came from.
BearGoggles
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tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

With Musk active in the Ukraine discussions and Tiffany's father in law now getting involved in the Middle East discussions, I think a couple of zoom calls in the Men's Grill at Mar a Lago over the Thanksgiving Holiday should pretty much wrap these messes up.
I expect the two wars to be on very different trajectories. For a variety of reasons I won't be surprised if there's a peace agreement or cease fire agreement very soon in Ukraine. But the ME may well be different. It is inherently more complex and complexity adds time. Iran is the instigator in all of this - they are a root cause. They recently tried to assassinate him. Trump previously demonstrated a view towards them that was hard line. He's not going to soften his stance. I'll predict some sort of diplomatic arrangement leveraging the signatories of the Abraham Accords to get Hamas out of Gaza, which will be the precondition to ending hostilities.

I think its very hard to say. I think there's much more potential for disagreement among NATO members re Ukraine then with regard to the ME and Iran.

With Biden and his terrible crew out of the picture, there's a general consensus among the US and its regional allies aligned against Iran and its proxies.

The question is do they go for the easy resolution (cease fire in GAZA), the medium resolution (cease fire in Gaza and Lebanon), or try to take down or materially weaken Iran. Israel may press for the big solution. And the US has to respond to the assassination.

With Qatar now on board and Saudi's better relationship with Trump, it seems like the Gaza solution could happen pretty quickly if they go that route.
tequila4kapp
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There's an article on Breitbart explaining that Lebanese FIL of Tiffany Trump has already been engaged with the PA's Abous (sp?) on a Gaza and will be point person for negotiations with Lebanon.
BearGoggles
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tequila4kapp said:

There's an article on Breitbart explaining that Lebanese FIL of Tiffany Trump has already been engaged with the PA's Abous (sp?) on a Gaza and will be point person for negotiations with Lebanon.
Gaza seems like a solvable situation - Hamas can be largely neutralized.

I don't see a quick solution in Lebanon. Israel will not accept less than what is required by UN Resolution 1701 - withdrawal of Hezbollah and other forces from Lebanon south of the Litani. Hezbollah is more firmly entrenched.

I actually think it is easier to solve the Lebanon situation with measures against Iran. But that is a longer term project.
bearister
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Qatar ends mediation efforts between Israel and Hamas, citing lack of good-faith negotiations


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/qatar-hamas-gaza-hostages-israel-war-ceasefire-rcna179332
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BearGoggles
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bearister said:

Qatar ends mediation efforts between Israel and Hamas, citing lack of good-faith negotiations


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/qatar-hamas-gaza-hostages-israel-war-ceasefire-rcna179332
It is almost like something changed Qatar's calculus last week? I wonder what that was? Hmm
smh
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> ..ethnic cleansing in gaza..
key takeaway from hitler was genocide sucks, big time.
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
BearGoggles
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Happy Roevember said:

Quote:

None of that makes this a genocide or changes the moral calculus. I know for a fact that the Israelis (as a whole) try to minimize the deaths of innocents. Israelis and Jews value life
Isreali newspaper Haaretz rebuts the above.



Yes - Israel has far left wackos too. Many of them engage in demagoguery and some write in Haaretz. For them Bibi = Trump and they have Bibi Derangement Syndrome. That's part of a free society.

Incidentally, how does Gaza compare on that front? Is there a free press where opposing viewpoints are allowed? Or are those people killed?

Ethnic cleansing is generally defined as creating ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups.

Creating a war zone/buffer with no civilians is not that. If you think it is, please tell me what ethnically homogeneous areas have been created? Have Israeli citizens rushed in to occupy Gaza? No they have not.

This is a bad faith argument. If the Israelis fight the war without moving citizens, they are accused of "war crimes" or "genocide" due to the resulting civilian casualties. If the Israelis clear out people from an area, they are accused of ethnic cleansing. The truth is, people making these arguments just want Israel to lose. Israel is not obliged to lose because Hamas chooses to hide behind civilians.

Cal88
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BearGoggles said:

Happy Roevember said:

Quote:

None of that makes this a genocide or changes the moral calculus. I know for a fact that the Israelis (as a whole) try to minimize the deaths of innocents. Israelis and Jews value life
Isreali newspaper Haaretz rebuts the above.



Yes - Israel has far left wackos too. Many of them engage in demagoguery and some write in Haaretz. For them Bibi = Trump and they have Bibi Derangement Syndrome. That's part of a free society.

Incidentally, how does Gaza compare on that front? Is there a free press where opposing viewpoints are allowed? Or are those people killed?

Ethnic cleansing is generally defined as creating ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups.

Creating a war zone/buffer with no civilians is not that. If you think it is, please tell me what ethnically homogeneous areas have been created? Have Israeli citizens rushed in to occupy Gaza? No they have not.

This is a bad faith argument. If the Israelis fight the war without moving citizens, they are accused of "war crimes" or "genocide" due to the resulting civilian casualties. If the Israelis clear out people from an area, they are accused of ethnic cleansing. The truth is, people making these arguments just want Israel to lose. Israel is not obliged to lose because Hamas chooses to hide behind civilians.


The real wackos in Israel are the right wing fanatical supremacists, and unfortunately they constitute the majority today in Israel, as reflected by their current government, with a minister like Ben Gvir who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby in a big party.


Israel has forcibly displaced millions of Palestinians from their homes, it has been a long process of ethnic cleansing that is ongoing now with Gaza being entirely razed to the ground, 200,000 Gazans dying whether from direct bombing or from the consequences of their entire infrastructure being deliberately destroyed, hospitals blown up and population deliberately starved.



Israel has gone beyond ethnic cleansing and has been conducting genocide in Palestine.



BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

BearGoggles said:

Happy Roevember said:

Quote:

None of that makes this a genocide or changes the moral calculus. I know for a fact that the Israelis (as a whole) try to minimize the deaths of innocents. Israelis and Jews value life
Isreali newspaper Haaretz rebuts the above.



Yes - Israel has far left wackos too. Many of them engage in demagoguery and some write in Haaretz. For them Bibi = Trump and they have Bibi Derangement Syndrome. That's part of a free society.

Incidentally, how does Gaza compare on that front? Is there a free press where opposing viewpoints are allowed? Or are those people killed?

Ethnic cleansing is generally defined as creating ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups.

Creating a war zone/buffer with no civilians is not that. If you think it is, please tell me what ethnically homogeneous areas have been created? Have Israeli citizens rushed in to occupy Gaza? No they have not.

This is a bad faith argument. If the Israelis fight the war without moving citizens, they are accused of "war crimes" or "genocide" due to the resulting civilian casualties. If the Israelis clear out people from an area, they are accused of ethnic cleansing. The truth is, people making these arguments just want Israel to lose. Israel is not obliged to lose because Hamas chooses to hide behind civilians.


The real wackos in Israel are the right wing fanatical supremacists, and unfortunately they constitute the majority today in Israel, as reflected by their current government, with a minister like Ben Gvir who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby in a big party.


Israel has forcibly displaced millions of Palestinians from their homes, it has been a long process of ethnic cleansing that is ongoing now with Gaza being entirely razed to the ground, 200,000 Gazans dying whether from direct bombing or from the consequences of their entire infrastructure being deliberately destroyed, hospitals blown up and population deliberately starved.



Israel has gone beyond ethnic cleansing and has been conducting genocide in Palestine.




If the majority of Israelis were right wing wackos intent on committing genocide/ethnic cleansing, etc., then there would be no Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Yet there are. And in fact their numbers have grown massively in the last 40 years. If Israel is committing genocide, they are really bad at it.

On the other hand, let's discuss Gaza which is in fact governed by a group (Hamas) that is explicitly in favor of geociding/cleansing Israel. That is their stated goal. And they are in power. We could say the same about Hezbollah and Lebanon.

Ben Gvir is a fringe politician in Israel. He is part of a coalition government. Many of his views/statements are bad; but they are not widely held or official policy. That is in stark contrast to the Hamas and Hezbollah leaders (both dead and a few alive) who were/are avowed terrorists and seek to, as a matter of sated policy, to eradicate Israel (i.e., commit genocide).

And as further evidence of how absurd your claims are, there is no one with any credibility claiming 200,000 Gazans have died from Israeli actions in the current conflict. The alleged number - based on Hamas and other highly questionable and biased reporting - is around 44,000. That includes combatants.

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaza-strip-5-november-2024

If you want to end suffering in Gaza, you should be advocating for the release of hostages, a Hamas surrender, and restoration of a Gazan government that does not seek war with Israel. But of course, that would require you (and the Gazans) to accept the existence of Israel in its current form, which you're not prepared to do.
Chapman_is_Gone
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HEY ALUMNI !! GO!!

ISRAEL !!

GO !!

ISRAEL !!

GO !!

ISRAEL !!
bearister
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I guess those guys that had an alliance with tRumpists and had so much empathy for those suffering in Gaza should have been careful what they wished for:

Mike Huckabee, Ambassador to Israel



* "There's really no such thing as a Palestinian," Huckabee told a Massachusetts rabbi during his 2008 presidential campaign. "That's been a political tool to try to force land away from Israel." Salon.com

*Many evangelicals maintain that the continued existence of Israel is key to their understanding of the end times, as explained in the Book of Revelations. They believe that Jews must possess their own country in the Holy Land of Israel before the second coming of Jesus can occur, which is seen as the ultimate goal in Christian theology, with the establishment of a Christly kingdom on Earth. These distinctive religious beliefs lead to significant differences in evangelicals' views of Israel compared to other Americans."
https://globalaffairs.org/commentary-and-analysis/blogs/american-evangelicals-unique-support-israel

This is starting to get tragically funny, Yogi. Between Huckabee and Neocon Mike Waltz, you're batting 0-2. You are actually 0-3 when you consider Secretary of State selection Marco Rubio is considered a foreign policy Hawk.

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BearGoggles
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bearister said:

I guess those guys that had an alliance with tRumpists and had so much empathy for those suffering in Gaza should have been careful what they wished for:

Mike Huckabee, Ambassador to Israel



* "There's really no such thing as a Palestinian," Huckabee told a Massachusetts rabbi during his 2008 presidential campaign. "That's been a political tool to try to force land away from Israel." Salon.com

*Many evangelicals maintain that the continued existence of Israel is key to their understanding of the end times, as explained in the Book of Revelations. They believe that Jews must possess their own country in the Holy Land of Israel before the second coming of Jesus can occur, which is seen as the ultimate goal in Christian theology, with the establishment of a Christly kingdom on Earth. These distinctive religious beliefs lead to significant differences in evangelicals' views of Israel compared to other Americans."
https://globalaffairs.org/commentary-and-analysis/blogs/american-evangelicals-unique-support-israel

This is starting to get tragically funny, Yogi. Between Huckabee and Neocon Mike Waltz, you're batting 0-2. You are actually 0-3 when you consider Secretary of State selection Marco Rubio is considered a foreign policy Hawk.


You're right. Trump, Rubio, Waltz, and Huckabee all are very anti-Hamas and support Israel. I'm sorry for your loss. But nothing surprising about this.

It is not a matter of empathy. It is a matter of safety/security. If Hamas surrenders, Gaza will experience peace. And if Palestinians de-radicalize, they will have their own state. Until then, they won't.
 
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