Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Happy Roevember said:
Quote:
None of that makes this a genocide or changes the moral calculus. I know for a fact that the Israelis (as a whole) try to minimize the deaths of innocents. Israelis and Jews value life
Isreali newspaper Haaretz rebuts the above.
Yes - Israel has far left wackos too. Many of them engage in demagoguery and some write in Haaretz. For them Bibi = Trump and they have Bibi Derangement Syndrome. That's part of a free society.
Incidentally, how does Gaza compare on that front? Is there a free press where opposing viewpoints are allowed? Or are those people killed?
Ethnic cleansing is generally defined as creating ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups.
Creating a war zone/buffer with no civilians is not that. If you think it is, please tell me what ethnically homogeneous areas have been created? Have Israeli citizens rushed in to occupy Gaza? No they have not.
This is a bad faith argument. If the Israelis fight the war without moving citizens, they are accused of "war crimes" or "genocide" due to the resulting civilian casualties. If the Israelis clear out people from an area, they are accused of ethnic cleansing. The truth is, people making these arguments just want Israel to lose. Israel is not obliged to lose because Hamas chooses to hide behind civilians.
The real wackos in Israel are the right wing fanatical supremacists, and unfortunately they constitute the majority today in Israel, as reflected by their current government, with a minister like Ben Gvir who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby in a big party.
Israel has forcibly displaced millions of Palestinians from their homes, it has been a long process of ethnic cleansing that is ongoing now with Gaza being entirely razed to the ground, 200,000 Gazans dying whether from direct bombing or from the consequences of their entire infrastructure being deliberately destroyed, hospitals blown up and population deliberately starved.
Israel has gone beyond ethnic cleansing and has been conducting genocide in Palestine.
If the
majority of Israelis were right wing wackos intent on committing genocide/ethnic cleansing, etc., then there would be no Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Yet there are. And in fact their numbers have grown massively in the last 40 years. If Israel is committing genocide, they are really bad at it.
On the other hand, let's discuss Gaza which is in fact governed by a group (Hamas) that is explicitly in favor of geociding/cleansing Israel.
That is their stated goal. And they are in power. We could say the same about Hezbollah and Lebanon.
Ben Gvir is a fringe politician in Israel. He is part of a coalition government. Many of his views/statements are bad; but they are not widely held or official policy. That is in stark contrast to the Hamas and Hezbollah leaders (both dead and a few alive) who were/are avowed terrorists and seek to, as a matter of sated policy, to eradicate Israel (i.e., commit genocide).
And as further evidence of how absurd your claims are, there is no one with any credibility claiming 200,000 Gazans have died from Israeli actions in the current conflict. The alleged number - based on Hamas and other highly questionable and biased reporting - is around 44,000. That includes combatants.
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaza-strip-5-november-2024If you want to end suffering in Gaza, you should be advocating for the release of hostages, a Hamas surrender, and restoration of a Gazan government that does not seek war with Israel. But of course, that would require you (and the Gazans) to accept the existence of Israel in its current form, which you're not prepared to do.
