2020 Election - Catch-all Thread

58,498 Views | 1686 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Professor Turgeson Bear
dajo9
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:



Ah yes, illegal immigrants are such a valuable voting bloc.

Is it not possible they and/or Democratic voters might actually believe in some of this stuff on principle?
It's not the illegals that provide a significant voting block for Dems, it's the moronic liberals who are committed to this incoherent pathology.

No, it is not possible for these Dems to actually believe this stuff unless they have a mental illness, which I don't believe any of them do


And there it is.

We have a mental illness.
An old white dude
Anarchistbear
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You don't have to be documented to file or pay taxes. All you need is an ITIN number which the IRS by law does not share with immigration. You can get a mortgage and buy a house with an ITIN- perfectly legal. So many undocumented pay federal local payroll social security Medicare and sales taxes without receiving benefits like social security and Medical.
bearister
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..and courtesy of KH, it is going to stay that way in 2020.
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Another Bear
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Anarchistbear said:

Another Bear said:

Anarchistbear said:

Well done! Join me in destroying the authoritarian state.
Okay sign me up...in 10 years. That's when things will break IMO. The last of the boomers have to retire or reach 65. That will mark generational change...then need a historic event (like 9/11) that must be capitalized on...but for the good of the people (now what Dubya did) and against the usual suspects (status quo, military industrial complex, corporate tax breaks, etc.) Of course it could happen sooner but something bad or catastrophic has to happen. Also Gramsci will have a say in this.


I think it will happen sooner. The young are dispossessed. Alienation rules us be it violence, apathy, drug addiction, Facebook or pornography. Has there ever been a society more obsessed with health and less healthy than this one? . Watching last night's debate was really the reckoning of of the repudiation of the last 50 years of The Capitalist State of America


"Capital" [...] in the political field is analogous to "government". [...] The economic idea of capitalism, the politics of government or of authority, and the theological idea of the Church are three identical ideas, linked in various ways. To attack one of them is equivalent to attacking all of them. [...] What capital does to labour, and the State to liberty, the Church does to the spirit. This trinity of absolutism is as baneful in practice as it is in philosophy. The most effective means for oppressing the people would be simultaneously to enslave its body, its will and its reason.
It could happen sooner. Wouldn't be surprise. I guess something bad happens within the next 5 years but going with the generational change theory, it will take a bit more. Perhaps the last boomers hitting retirement age signal the end or start. I agree capitalism has left many outside looking in and that's a major issue not being addressed...and it's the kind of stuff that blows up.
bearister
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Difference between Republicans and Democrats:

Republicans: tRump calls journalist murderer Saudi Crown Prince MBS "a friend of mine" and joked with Putin about Russia interfering in the election and also joked with journalist murderer Putin about fake media. Result: Mad King will be re-elected in 2020.

Democrats: Senator Al Franken gets handsy in photos with females. Result: He resigns from Senate.
Joe Biden makes an inarticulate and moronic comment about reaching across the aisle to work with segregationists Result: Biden's Presidential run derailed.

...and when Vice President Dick Cheney was questioned about his ties to Halliburton by Senator Leahy his response was:


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kelly09
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BearNIt said:

GBear4Life said:

She injected her race into the debate as a crutch to pander. And now some (for whatever reason: to troll etc) are pointing out both her AND her minority parents did not experience the stereotypical woe-is-me American Black experience, something she tried to employ to virtue signal and grandstand.

Another reason why identity politics is bad, and everybody loses. Irrational injection of race is invitation to irrational identity semantics from the other side.

They're both wrong. She is, in fact, half black - and her blackness (race) is, in fact, irrelevant.
Your understanding of race in America and the historical effect that it had on minorities is woefully lacking. Until the issue of race is dealt with in a comprehensive manner it will remain the 800 lb. gorilla in America. It is race that brought about slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, the sentencing disparities concerning black vs white for possession of drugs like cocaine during the 80s and 90s, the need for civil rights, voting rights, desegregation, the 13TH, 14TH, and 15TH amendments, and we still haven't figured it out.

In the U.S. if you are part black, you are considered black by definition. To say that Harris' race is irrelevant is incorrect as it still influences a large number voters. Race still plays a major role in this country. If you don't think so then look at Charlottesville when there were marchers with torches shouting, "Jews will not replace us". Just because your parents live in an upscale community doesn't mean that racism magically disappears. Nobody can tell how much money you have just by looking at you. For most race is the first thing that they see and with that comes preconceived ideas about who you are.

Yes, she spoke up when the topic turned to race. She might as a person of color have key insights to the topic and yes she used it to score points, much like some last night used their age or a police shooting to pander and score points. That's is what politicians running for POTUS do, they score points when they can. (See Trump's Tweets)

Key Insights?!!! I was at Ft Benning GA in 1963. Lived in Berkeley most of my life.Kamala having two PHD professors as parents and growing up in Berkeley and Toronto cannot possibly identify with the black people that lived in Columbus
Ga in during that period. It,s insane and she is a liar. And oh,btw she detests Catholics.
Golden One
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sycasey said:

Golden One said:


You're not missing anything. The candidates are just pandering to their newest constituency--illegals and their relatives in the U.S. It's downright shamefull and providing a huge issue for Trump to take advantage of during the election. As Doug Schoen, Democratic consultant, said this afternoon, Trump was the big winner last evening.
Ah yes, illegal immigrants are such a valuable voting bloc.

Is it not possible they and/or Democratic voters might actually believe in some of this stuff on principle?
No, it's not possible. It's just pure politics with pandering at its best. And the illegals may not be such a valuable voting bloc, but the bleeding heart open borders crowd is.
Golden One
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.
GBear4Life
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kelly09 said:

BearNIt said:



She might as a person of color have key insights to the topic
Key Insights?!!! I was at Ft Benning GA in 1963. Lived in Berkeley most of my life.Kamala having two PHD professors as parents and growing up in Berkeley and Toronto cannot possibly identify with the black people that lived in Columbus Ga in during that period. It,s insane and she is a liar. And oh,btw she detests Catholics.
If you haven't noticed, one of the key elements of leftist SJW culture -- and pandered to by the establishment -- is the presumption that we can presume (the same) experiences based on one's group identity. KH is black, therefore her life must have been "harder" than whites (an absurd claim), and she gets to employ the "poor little black girl" card. Using their own rhetoric against them, KH's background is of the privileged top 5% in America. Two parent household, uber-educated, upper-middle class both culturally and economically. Black, white, organge, yellow, that is their own definition of privilege.

It's funny that his whole post was about how race matters, in part because people make assumptions based on race, as he explicitly does that very thing about KH.

Can they make up their minds? Should race matter or not? Are people individuals before members of a group? Can we sum up or somebody's life experience based on their race or gender or sexual orientation? Can't have it both ways.
sycasey
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Golden One said:

sycasey said:

Golden One said:


You're not missing anything. The candidates are just pandering to their newest constituency--illegals and their relatives in the U.S. It's downright shamefull and providing a huge issue for Trump to take advantage of during the election. As Doug Schoen, Democratic consultant, said this afternoon, Trump was the big winner last evening.
Ah yes, illegal immigrants are such a valuable voting bloc.

Is it not possible they and/or Democratic voters might actually believe in some of this stuff on principle?
No, it's not possible. It's just pure politics with pandering at its best.

Republicans seem to honestly believe this because this is what they do.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:



Ah yes, illegal immigrants are such a valuable voting bloc.

Is it not possible they and/or Democratic voters might actually believe in some of this stuff on principle?
It's not the illegals that provide a significant voting block for Dems, it's the moronic liberals who are committed to this incoherent pathology.

So in other words, they are trying to represent their constituency. Horrible!
You first insinuate they might actually believe it.

It's pointed out that's not likely, given how stupid it is.

You then pivot and defend the Dems possible pandering on the basis of them simply representing their constituency.

So what politicians support is irrelevant so long as some subset of their "constituency" supports it? Fascinating

You'll apologize for the Left any time for any reason won't you?

(As I have pointed out, I think this political move will backfire. The base that will swing their vote based on health care for illegals, I would suspect, is still pretty small. In other words, it's not swing issue for Democrats in a way others are. They may have riled up their bases' excitement a tad, but the payoff is dwarfed by the blowback, IMO. Time will tell).
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:



Ah yes, illegal immigrants are such a valuable voting bloc.

Is it not possible they and/or Democratic voters might actually believe in some of this stuff on principle?
It's not the illegals that provide a significant voting block for Dems, it's the moronic liberals who are committed to this incoherent pathology.

So in other words, they are trying to represent their constituency. Horrible!
You first insinuate they might actually believe it.

It's pointed out that's not likely, given how stupid it is.

You then defend the Dems possible pandering on the basis of them simply representing their constituency.

So what politicians support is irrelevant so long as some subset of their "constituency" supports it? Fascinating

You'll apologize for the Left any time for any reason won't you?

You call it stupid. I don't think it is. I guess this means I have a mental illness.

Also, I did not call it "pandering," that's your word. It's very possible (even likely) that liberal voters who believe in something might elect people who also believe in that thing.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:




You call it stupid. I don't think it is. I guess this means I have a mental illness.

Also, I did not call it "pandering," that's your word. It's very possible (even likely) that liberal voters who believe in something might elect people who also believe in that thing.
If a person supports something they don't actually believe in for the purpose of getting something from the people who do actually support that thing, that pandering by definition. I'm certainly not implying pandering is unique to any one party. It is baked into our political system and culture.

You don't think it's stupid for a country to offer free health care to everybody else in the world that enters, or stays in, their country illegally.

You have the floor, sir.
bearister
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Somehow it makes perfect sense that the only candidate in the Democratic field with any chance to get the low information voters in Arizona, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Florida to cast a ballot for him (and thus defeat the Orange Tub of Guts) is also as dumb as a turnip:

"After his poor debate showing, Biden tried to recover Friday in Chicago but stepped in it again, saying during a labor luncheon, "We've got to recognize that kid wearing a hoodie may very well be the next poet laureate and not a gangbanger." Maureen Dowd, NY Times
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bearister
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Golden One said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.


The US national debt just pushed past $22 trillion here's how Trump's $2 trillion in debt compares with Obama, Bush, and Clinton

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-national-debt-deficit-compared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2
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Golden One
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bearister said:

Golden One said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.


The US national debt just pushed past $22 trillion here's how Trump's $2 trillion in debt compares with Obama, Bush, and Clinton

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-national-debt-deficit-compared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2
Your data prove my point; more debt was accumulated per year under Obama than so far under Trump per year. In both cases, however, the debt accumulation is totally unacceptable.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:




You call it stupid. I don't think it is. I guess this means I have a mental illness.

Also, I did not call it "pandering," that's your word. It's very possible (even likely) that liberal voters who believe in something might elect people who also believe in that thing.
If a person supports something they don't actually believe in for the purpose of getting something from the people who do actually support that thing, that pandering by definition. I'm certainly not implying pandering is unique to any one party. It is baked into our political system and culture.

You don't think it's stupid for a country to offer free health care to everybody else in the world that enters, or stays in, their country illegally.

You have the floor, sir.

When did I say the Democratic politicians don't believe in what they say? You're the one who keeps making that assertion and placing it on me, your usual rhetorical practice. I think most of them probably do believe in it.

I don't think it's stupid to treat people for medical issues, whether they are citizens or not. You'll just wind up paying for it anyway when they show up at emergency rooms, only now it will be more expensive to treat them. If you just turn them away, you still have a public health problem.
bearister
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Golden One said:

bearister said:

Golden One said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.


The US national debt just pushed past $22 trillion here's how Trump's $2 trillion in debt compares with Obama, Bush, and Clinton

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-national-debt-deficit-compared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2
Your data prove my point; more debt was accumulated per year under Obama than so far under Trump per year. In both cases, however, the debt accumulation is totally unacceptable.


..Yep, I'm interested in the facts, even if they don't back up my team, although in fairness, O inherited a tanked economy and tRump a strong one.
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GBear4Life
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I agree on the deficit, but that's simply prolonging a Happy Hour party. Only when the bill is paid will it hurt people.

I was referencing metrics like poverty, life expectancy, violence, etc
dajo9
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Golden One said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.


Obama cut the deficit he inherited by 1/3
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dajo9
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Golden One said:

bearister said:

Golden One said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.


The US national debt just pushed past $22 trillion here's how Trump's $2 trillion in debt compares with Obama, Bush, and Clinton

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-national-debt-deficit-compared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2
Your data prove my point; more debt was accumulated per year under Obama than so far under Trump per year. In both cases, however, the debt accumulation is totally unacceptable.


Obama inherited the Great Recession and the huge deficits that came with it
An old white dude
BearNIt
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kelly09 said:

BearNIt said:

GBear4Life said:

She injected her race into the debate as a crutch to pander. And now some (for whatever reason: to troll etc) are pointing out both her AND her minority parents did not experience the stereotypical woe-is-me American Black experience, something she tried to employ to virtue signal and grandstand.

Another reason why identity politics is bad, and everybody loses. Irrational injection of race is invitation to irrational identity semantics from the other side.

They're both wrong. She is, in fact, half black - and her blackness (race) is, in fact, irrelevant.
Your understanding of race in America and the historical effect that it had on minorities is woefully lacking. Until the issue of race is dealt with in a comprehensive manner it will remain the 800 lb. gorilla in America. It is race that brought about slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, the sentencing disparities concerning black vs white for possession of drugs like cocaine during the 80s and 90s, the need for civil rights, voting rights, desegregation, the 13TH, 14TH, and 15TH amendments, and we still haven't figured it out.

In the U.S. if you are part black, you are considered black by definition. To say that Harris' race is irrelevant is incorrect as it still influences a large number voters. Race still plays a major role in this country. If you don't think so then look at Charlottesville when there were marchers with torches shouting, "Jews will not replace us". Just because your parents live in an upscale community doesn't mean that racism magically disappears. Nobody can tell how much money you have just by looking at you. For most race is the first thing that they see and with that comes preconceived ideas about who you are.

Yes, she spoke up when the topic turned to race. She might as a person of color have key insights to the topic and yes she used it to score points, much like some last night used their age or a police shooting to pander and score points. That's is what politicians running for POTUS do, they score points when they can. (See Trump's Tweets)

Key Insights?!!! I was at Ft Benning GA in 1963. Lived in Berkeley most of my life.Kamala having two PHD professors as parents and growing up in Berkeley and Toronto cannot possibly identify with the black people that lived in Columbus
Ga in during that period. It,s insane and she is a liar. And oh,btw she detests Catholics.
You actually think that because one has parents that are professors and growing up in Berkeley and Toronto cannot possibly identify with the black people that lived in Columbus, Ga., that racism magically disappears because your parents had PhDs in 1963 WOW! I can tell you this as a person of color, that getting called the N-Word in Columbus, Ga evokes the same visceral feelings as getting called the N-Word in Berkeley, Ca, Toronto, Munich, London or any location around the world. As a person of color not only can you identify, you became involved in the movement for civil rights at various levels to end such things as Jim Crow and segregation. You fought for the right to vote which resulted in the 1965 Voting Rights Act or fought against redlining.

Based on your argument, what would you know about racism in the context of being a black person from Columbus, Ga. in 1963 who experienced racism, Jim Crow, lynchings the last occurring 1981, or being called "boy"? These are the stories that are told by grandparents and parents, some who are even PhDs.

It's a reach to accuse Harris of old-fashioned anti-Catholicism because of the written questions she posed to judicial nominee, Buescher. But she displayed a lack of knowledge about Catholic culture that could be mistaken for the hostility that occurred in the 1950s and 1960s.
GBear4Life
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Called it



sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

Called it




I am SHOCKED that conservative news outlets don't like liberal ideas.
B.A. Bearacus
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Good on Joe.

concordtom
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Golden One said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

calpoly said:


Speaking of worst of time...How is the deficit?
You gotta keep up. Deficits don't matter now that a Republican is in the White House.
Deficits didn't seem to matter when Obama was in the White House for 8 years either. The fact is that neither party now seems to care much about deficits, and that's a problem.
Obama gets a pass for the first half of his time. The sh't had hit the fan!
In my opinion, he should have pulled back more, sooner. But I think he didn't want to slow down the economy, which it would have:

GDP = Consumer Spending + Government Spending (G) + Business Investment + Net Imports (long a minus for USA)
Whereas Govt is something like 20% of GDP, the deficit of $1T represents about 25% of G, and the knock on affect of reducing G by so much would be severe - we've gotten ourselves into a catch 22 position: tragic!

Trump is continuing the deficits for the same reasons Obama did in his second term, yet it's even more grotesque and obvious to me because we are that much further removed from 2008 crash. Now is the time to be paying down the deficit, not extending it!!

The bill is going to come due for the USA and it's going to be a very sad day when that happens. We are playing with Fire. I am disgusted with the Republican Party. They used to stand for principles. Now I view them as a bunch of partisan pussees following a true monster. And his zombie henchmen. Pathetic and unprincipled.
GBear4Life
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Good on Joe.


What racism directed at KH is Biden talking about? Or is this one of the million instances where they conflate stupidity with "racism"?
concordtom
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GBear4Life said:

What racism directed at KH is Biden talking about? Or is this one of the million instances where they conflate stupidity with "racism"?
After reading your first sentence, I reply: yes, what is this in reference to? I'm not up on every tidbit of news.

After reading your second sentence, I reply: **** *** **** **. If you want to look at stupidity and racism, just look at the party you are blindly partisan towards.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:


I am SHOCKED that conservative news outlets don't like liberal ideas.
That's not what made it front-page worthy. That conservatives would object goes without saying. What's noteworthy is that many are pointing out, correctly in my view, that the Democrats taking that position is reckless strategically. More or less political suicide for the general election.

As I noted earlier, I anticipate the primary winner to walk their position back in the general election. Who knows if that will save them. I think for now, the Dems are simply concerned with not putting off their base in efforts to get them out to vote in the primaries. That's short sighted in my view.

I think if, say, one person didn't raise their hand, clarified their liberal views on immigration but that the reality of free health care and decriminalizing illegal entry (which in effect negates the "illegal" part) was bad for the Americans and legal immigrants already here, they would have faced some scrutiny immediately in the aftermath, but would have distinguished themselves and come out as the winner on the issue among liberal democrats
GBear4Life
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concordtom said:

GBear4Life said:

What racism directed at KH is Biden talking about? Or is this one of the million instances where they conflate stupidity with "racism"?
After reading your first sentence, I reply: yes, what is this in reference to? I'm not up on every tidbit of news.

After reading your second sentence, I reply: **** *** **** **. If you want to look at stupidity and racism, just look at the party you are blindly partisan towards.
yawn
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:


I am SHOCKED that conservative news outlets don't like liberal ideas.
That's not what made it front-page worthy. That conservatives would object goes without saying. What's noteworthy is that many are pointing out, correctly in my view, that the Democrats taking that position is reckless strategically. More or less political suicide for the general election.

As I noted earlier, I anticipate the primary winner to walk their position back in the general election. Who knows if that will save them. I think for now, the Dems are simply concerned with not putting off their base in efforts to get them out to vote in the primaries. That's short sighted in my view.

I think if, say, one person didn't raise their hand, clarified their liberal views on immigration but that the reality of free health care and decriminalizing illegal entry (which in effect negates the "illegal" part) was bad for the Americans and legal immigrants already here, they would have faced some scrutiny immediately in the aftermath, but would have distinguished themselves and come out as the winner on the issue among liberal democrats

This may turn out to be true. I am also sure that even if it were not true, Fox News and the New York Post would say it was. Those outlets are evidence of nothing.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:




This may turn out to be true. I am also sure that even if it were not true, Fox News and the New York Post would say it was. Those outlets are evidence of nothing.
Stop concerning yourself with the partisan sources. That partisan news networks like Fox are often right by accident purely because it aligns with their ideology is nothing anybody is not aware of. Fox didn't make these candidates pander on an unpopular idea. In this case, as you acknowledge, the case is substantive. Scarsborough points this out too.

Google search to find people's response to this issue on the Left. It's not all puppy dogs and ice cream.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:




This may turn out to be true. I am also sure that even if it were not true, Fox News and the New York Post would say it was. Those outlets are evidence of nothing.
Stop concerning yourself with the partisan sources. That partisan news networks like Fox are often right by accident purely because it aligns with their ideology is nothing anybody is not aware of. Fox didn't make these candidates pander on an unpopular idea. In this case, as you acknowledge, the case is substantive. Scarsborough points this out too.

Scarborough is also a conservative, despite being on MSNBC.

I don't know if the Democrats' position on this issue will hurt them or not. I don't think you provided convincing evidence of it by offering up the sources you did.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:




Scarborough is also a conservative, despite being on MSNBC.

I don't know if the Democrats' position on this issue will hurt them or not. I don't think you provided convincing evidence of it by offering up the sources you did.
lol OF COURSE.
BearNakedLadies
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bearister said:

KH just effectively put a bow on 2020 for tRump by shredding the only moronic candidate in the Democratic field that the low information voters of Arizona, Wisconsin, North Carolina and Florida will cast a vote for. The only thing that derails the Mad King at this point is A Cheeseburger Too Far scenario.

https://media.giphy.com/media/2WxWfiavndgcM/giphy.gif
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