2020 Election - Catch-all Thread

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GBear4Life
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 11:14a, 6/20/19
Anarchistbear said:
Why should they? Voting is an affirmation not a calculation over which of two pimps is less disgusting.
Certainly true, and I am of the same mind, but it certainly isn't pragmatic.

But at bottom, the whole electorate process is broken beyond repair. When half the country isn't voting, it's not an issue with the people, the problem is with the process and the system that churn out professional swindlers, and act as a gatekeeper to candidates Americans would endorse en masse.

Parties are a farce. There should be no R- or D- in front of candidates, no millionaire candidates and parties raising money off the back of schmucks making $25k a year so they can run their propaganda campaigns.
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Anarchistbear
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11:29a, 6/20/19
It's even worse. The parties are the government which means they control access, legislation, who runs for office and the bribery and favors that sustains them- all of which has little to do with constituents.

The notion that over 300 million people- many of them individualistic and rebellious- are now ruled by an authoritarian duopoly more akin to a banana republic or the Soviet Union is beyond shocking and far more dangerous than who is President.
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sycasey
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In reply to GBear4Life • 11:31a, 6/20/19
GBear4Life said:
dajo9 said:
GBear4Life said:
Bernie Sanders
The socialist would be good for Dems?
He'd have a better shot at winning the general election is what I mean. Along with Warren, though I think Warren will come off as smug and elitist to centrists living in middle america more so than Bernie.

Warren is actually from middle America though.
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dajo9
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In reply to GBear4Life • 11:41a, 6/20/19
GBear4Life said:
dajo9 said:
GBear4Life said:
Bernie Sanders
The socialist would be good for Dems?
He'd have a better shot at winning the general election is what I mean. Along with Warren, though I think Warren will come off as smug and elitist to centrists living in middle america more so than Bernie.
I think you overestimate Sanders' electability.

Warren is a woman. That would cost her about 5% of the vote.
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sycasey
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In reply to dajo9 • 12:41p, 6/20/19
dajo9 said:
Warren is a woman. That would cost her about 5% of the vote.

Get out of here with your identity politics.
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bearister
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 12:47p, 6/20/19
Anarchistbear said:
Why should they? Voting is an affirmation not a calculation over which of two pimps is less disgusting.


Something tells me that you would have a challenge finding a respected bipartisan think tank that would write a position paper (with evidentiary exhibits) that supports the proposition that Donald J. tRump and Hillary Rodham Clinton were so equally unqualified to discharge the job duties of POTUS that the only path available to a citizen of good conscience, morals and ethics was to not cast a vote for either for them.
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Anarchistbear
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1:08p, 6/20/19
48% of the public is proof enough. We don't need your stinking think tank!
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bearister
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 1:37p, 6/20/19
Anarchistbear said:
48% of the public is proof enough. We don't need your stinking think tank!


Yeah, sure, but I methinks ya needs me weed.

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okaydo
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In reply to sycasey • 2:22p, 6/20/19
sycasey said:
GBear4Life said:
dajo9 said:
GBear4Life said:
Bernie Sanders
The socialist would be good for Dems?
He'd have a better shot at winning the general election is what I mean. Along with Warren, though I think Warren will come off as smug and elitist to centrists living in middle america more so than Bernie.

Warren is actually from middle America though.

Warren would be the first president since Reagan without an Ivy League degree.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to okaydo • 2:51p, 6/20/19
okaydo said:


Warren would be the first president since Reagan without an Ivy League degree.
I'm not sure how relevant that is given that she was a professor at Penn and Harvard for more than two decades.

I'm not saying she needs to run away from her academic background, but that surely makes it hard to argue that she's less ivy league than someone who merely attended 2 years of school at one and probably didn't pick up a textbook (like Trump).
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Another Bear
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3:06p, 6/20/19
Warren is an elite...but she knows policy and has specific ideas that should benefit most, average Americans instead of the 1%. My take on Uncle Joe is he's gonna wing the whole freakin' deal and ride the "anyone but Trump" ticket and rely on the same old D.C. crap. Americans however don't want the same old thing...Biden orTrump.
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okaydo
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 3:08p, 6/20/19
Unit2Sucks said:
okaydo said:


Warren would be the first president since Reagan without an Ivy League degree.
I'm not sure how relevant that is given that she was a professor at Penn and Harvard for more than two decades.

I'm not saying she needs to run away from her academic background, but that surely makes it hard to argue that she's less ivy league than someone who merely attended 2 years of school at one and probably didn't pick up a textbook (like Trump).

Not disagreeing.

But I think if she could sell her Midwestern roots the way Obama sold his Midwestern roots, she could excel.
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bearister
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In reply to Another Bear • 3:19p, 6/20/19
Another Bear said:
... Americans however don't want the same old thing...Biden orTrump.


...and what Americans are we talking about? Americans as a whole or the only Americans that count when it comes to electing the POTUS in 2020, the sacred voters of Arizona, Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin?
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to okaydo • 3:23p, 6/20/19
okaydo said:



Not disagreeing.

But I think if she could sell her Midwestern roots the way Obama sold his Midwestern roots, she could excel.
Sure but he had two ivy league degrees. I know you like factoids but this one (about ivy league credentials) is pretty hollow.

It's also amusing that you talk about her selling her midwestern "roots" like Obama given that he grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia and didn't move to Chicago until he was like 25 but I take the point.

I agree with you and others on the larger point which is that when you get away from the non-substantive attacks that will be levied at Warren, she is one of the few people in the field who has genuinely tried to make a difference in the lives of the less fortunate and has something to show for it. In many ways she is the democratic candidate I have the most respect for (intellectually and otherwise) and I hope she is in it until the end. I don't particularly care for a number of her major policy positions but I'm willing to allow those disagreements to take a back seat because she's passionate about helping people, has thought deeply about the issues facing our country, and would join Obama and Clinton as the only intelligent presidents we've had in the last 40 years.
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calbear93
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In reply to bearister • 3:31p, 6/20/19
bearister said:
Another Bear said:
... Americans however don't want the same old thing...Biden orTrump.


...and what Americans are we talking about? Americans as a whole or the only Americans that count when it comes to electing the POTUS in 2020, the sacred voters of Arizona, Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin?
Don't forget the rest of the Rust Belt.

Rust Belt is the reason why I think Warren will not win. She is too much of a policy wonk who is already viewed as inauthentic or pandering.

For the blue-collar workers in Midwest, Biden's faux pas and lack of eloquence will be a plus. It will be viewed as authentic.
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bearister
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In reply to calbear93 • 3:38p, 6/20/19
calbear93 said:
...For the blue-collar workers in Midwest, Biden's faux pas and lack of eloquence will be a plus. It will be viewed as authentic.


BINGO! The sacred on the fence voters in those states could give a rat's a$$ about Biden's recent comments and they love the fact he didn't apologize. There is plenty of time for Biden to self flagellate at the altar of the Progressives AFTER he seizes the reins of power. Although this recent dust up confirms my theory that Biden is every bit as stupid as tRump, I do have faith that he will surround himself with more able people than the Felliniesq cast that surrounds the Mad King.

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okaydo
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 4:00p, 6/20/19
Unit2Sucks said:
okaydo said:



Not disagreeing.

But I think if she could sell her Midwestern roots the way Obama sold his Midwestern roots, she could excel.
Sure but he had two ivy league degrees. I know you like factoids but this one (about ivy league credentials) is pretty hollow.

It's also amusing that you talk about her selling her midwestern "roots" like Obama given that he grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia and didn't move to Chicago until he was like 25 but I take the point.

I agree with you and others on the larger point which is that when you get away from the non-substantive attacks that will be levied at Warren, she is one of the few people in the field who has genuinely tried to make a difference in the lives of the less fortunate and has something to show for it. In many ways she is the democratic candidate I have the most respect for (intellectually and otherwise) and I hope she is in it until the end. I don't particularly care for a number of her major policy positions but I'm willing to allow those disagreements to take a back seat because she's passionate about helping people, has thought deeply about the issues facing our country, and would join Obama and Clinton as the only intelligent presidents we've had in the last 40 years.

By Obama selling his Midwestern roots, I'm talking about this...




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okaydo
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In reply to bearister • 4:10p, 6/20/19
bearister said:
calbear93 said:
...For the blue-collar workers in Midwest, Biden's faux pas and lack of eloquence will be a plus. It will be viewed as authentic.


BINGO! The sacred on the fence voters in those states could give a rat's a$$ about Biden's recent comments and they love the fact he didn't apologize. There is plenty of time for Biden to self flagellate at the altar of the Progressives AFTER he seizes the reins of power. Although this recent dust up confirms my theory that Biden is every bit as stupid as tRump, I do have faith that he will surround himself with more able people than the Felliniesq cast that surrounds the Mad King.


He's every bit as (I wouldn't use the word stupid) as Trump. The conservatives have been making fun of him for years. He ain't changing. It's only going to get worse. Personally, I think he's just another Hillary. (Trump liked to falsely state that Hillary was in power for 30 years during the last election. With Biden, he'll just harp on about how he's been a Washington Insider for 50 years. I think the point of the next election is to get out the vote. If you're on the fence when it comes to Trump at this point, then really you're a lost cause. The reason Hillary didn't win is because people who would've ordinarily voted for her weren't passionate enough to vote for her. Or they hated her. In a get out the vote election, having an extremely polarizing person like Biden as the Democratic nominee hurts more than it helps. People who voted for Obama who were apathetic/disliked Hillary aren't going to wait in long lines to vote for Biden.


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Unit2Sucks
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4:14p, 6/20/19
I don't know what to say if you think Obama playing up his "roots" in Kansas was a major part of his appeal. Maybe this was one of your jokes? I assume you know he got smoked by McCain in Kansas.

I guess if Warren wanted to play up her "roots" like Obama she would talk about her native american "roots."

But more likely she can point to the fact that she grew up middle class in Oklahoma and has focused her political life on helping economically disadvantaged Americans. It's an authentic message for her (not unlike Bernie) and she has a demonstrable track record.
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okaydo
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 4:24p, 6/20/19
Unit2Sucks said:
I don't know what to say if you think Obama playing up his "roots" in Kansas was a major part of his appeal. Maybe this was one of your jokes? I assume you know he got smoked by McCain in Kansas.

I guess if Warren wanted to play up her "roots" like Obama she would talk about her native american "roots."

But more likely she can point to the fact that she grew up middle class in Oklahoma and has focused her political life on helping economically disadvantaged Americans. It's an authentic message for her (not unlike Bernie) and she has a demonstrable track record.

I'm saying he used his Kansas roots to appeal to certain Midwesterners, the ones who didn't think he was a foreigner. I'm saying it helped him win the 2008 Iowa Caucus and the 2008 and 2012 general election in Iowa. I'm saying that while a large number of people in the Midwest saw him as a foreigner, he could rebut that with an emphasis on his Kansas ancestery -- and it would work on some people. A lot of people. He was able to take advantage of his Kansas roots.

My point is he could use his Kansas background to say "hey, I'm one of you" even though it wouldn't do him good in Kansas. And Warren could do that, too, with her Oklahoma background, even though it wouldn't do her good in Oklahoma.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to okaydo • 4:36p, 6/20/19
okaydo said:



I'm saying he used his Kansas roots to appeal to certain Midwesterners, the ones who didn't think he was a foreigner. I'm saying it helped him win the 2008 Iowa Caucus and the 2008 and 2012 general election in Iowa. I'm saying that while a large number of people in the Midwest saw him as a foreigner, he could rebut that with an emphasis on his Kansas ancestery -- and it would work on some people. A lot of people. He was able to take advantage of his Kansas roots.
While we can agree to disagree on the extent to which Obama rode his "roots" in Kansas to victory, I'm just not sure how any of that is relevant to a white lady with a midwestern accent who actually grew up in the midwest. I suppose the amusing point here is that Obama chose to play up his white midwestern heritage and Warren chose to play up her non-white (possibly non-existent) native american midwestern heritage.
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Another Bear
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In reply to bearister • 4:36p, 6/20/19
bearister said:
Another Bear said:
... Americans however don't want the same old thing...Biden orTrump.


...and what Americans are we talking about? Americans as a whole or the only Americans that count when it comes to electing the POTUS in 2020, the sacred voters of Arizona, Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin?
I'd say ALL Americans. Even the Trumpkins want change but of course they thought Trump would bring it and it would benefit them, coal jobs, farmers not getting screwed, Harley, yada, yada. Of course they were wrong.
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okaydo
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:16p, 6/20/19
Unit2Sucks said:
okaydo said:



I'm saying he used his Kansas roots to appeal to certain Midwesterners, the ones who didn't think he was a foreigner. I'm saying it helped him win the 2008 Iowa Caucus and the 2008 and 2012 general election in Iowa. I'm saying that while a large number of people in the Midwest saw him as a foreigner, he could rebut that with an emphasis on his Kansas ancestery -- and it would work on some people. A lot of people. He was able to take advantage of his Kansas roots.
While we can agree to disagree on the extent to which Obama rode his "roots" in Kansas to victory, I'm just not sure how any of that is relevant to a white lady with a midwestern accent who actually grew up in the midwest. I suppose the amusing point here is that Obama chose to play up his white midwestern heritage and Warren chose to play up her non-white (possibly non-existent) native american midwestern heritage.

Because Midwesterners are always touted as the true Americans, and having any connection to the Midwest helps more than it hurts. Would Pete Buttigieg have had the same impact if he was mayor of Eugene, Oregon?

I'm not saying Obama's Kansas roots had a huge impact, but it helped ground him as an American as his detractors tried to emphasize his foreign background.

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Anarchistbear
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5:39p, 6/20/19
What do the great unwashed want? The most enduring and provincial trope here.
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dajo9
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In reply to calbear93 • 6:13p, 6/20/19
calbear93 said:
bearister said:
Another Bear said:
... Americans however don't want the same old thing...Biden orTrump.


...and what Americans are we talking about? Americans as a whole or the only Americans that count when it comes to electing the POTUS in 2020, the sacred voters of Arizona, Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin?
Don't forget the rest of the Rust Belt.

Rust Belt is the reason why I think Warren will not win. She is too much of a policy wonk who is already viewed as inauthentic or pandering.

For the blue-collar workers in Midwest, Biden's faux pas and lack of eloquence will be a plus. It will be viewed as authentic.


Warren is a woman
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okaydo
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In reply to bearister • 8:15p, 6/20/19
bearister said:
calbear93 said:
...For the blue-collar workers in Midwest, Biden's faux pas and lack of eloquence will be a plus. It will be viewed as authentic.


BINGO! The sacred on the fence voters in those states could give a rat's a$$ about Biden's recent comments and they love the fact he didn't apologize. There is plenty of time for Biden to self flagellate at the altar of the Progressives AFTER he seizes the reins of power. Although this recent dust up confirms my theory that Biden is every bit as stupid as tRump, I do have faith that he will surround himself with more able people than the Felliniesq cast that surrounds the Mad King.


Also, it seems like Biden is playing it safe and sitting on his lead...

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sycasey
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 9:10p, 6/20/19
Anarchistbear said:
What do the great unwashed want? The most enduring and provincial trope here.

And I'm not convinced anyone here has a good handle on it.
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bearister
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6:54a, 6/21/19
What does Biden have in common with Trump? Delusional nostalgia

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/21/joe-biden-trump-sexism-delusional-nostalgia?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Another Bear
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10:03a, 6/21/19
Well one measure of a man is his offspring. Biden's son, Hunter, just weird stuff.

Note: from Fox News, so it's a hit piece but you can't ignore the weirdness. Maybe he's overcompensating or grieving through his crotch...


Quote:
The 49-year-old offspring of the former vice president made more headlines this week after the New York Post reported that an Arkansas woman says Hunter is the father of her child.

Previously this month, the son made news after he married a South African woman, whom he reportedly had only recently met, just months after splitting from Hallie Biden, the widow of his brother Beau, who died in 2015.

It's not the first marriage for Hunter. In 2017 he divorced his wife of over 20 years, Kathleen Biden, following a messy divorce proceeding where she accused him of spending money on drugs and strip clubs.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-campaign-son-personal-life-business-deals-spotlight
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okaydo
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12:06p, 6/21/19

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Genocide Joe 58
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In reply to bearister • 7:08p, 6/21/19
bearister said:
What does Biden have in common with Trump? Delusional nostalgia

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/21/joe-biden-trump-sexism-delusional-nostalgia?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Biden has nothing to offer other than the status quo and that doesn't cut it anymore
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calbear93
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In reply to sycasey • 9:48p, 6/21/19
sycasey said:
Anarchistbear said:
What do the great unwashed want? The most enduring and provincial trope here.

And I'm not convinced anyone here has a good handle on it.


I am almost certain Biden will win the primary. The only way Biden loses to Trump is if the left loses their collective mind and convinces themselves that Biden is just as bad as Trump.
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Genocide Joe 58
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In reply to calbear93 • 1:42a, 6/22/19
calbear93 said:
sycasey said:
Anarchistbear said:
What do the great unwashed want? The most enduring and provincial trope here.

And I'm not convinced anyone here has a good handle on it.


I am almost certain Biden will win the primary. The only way Biden loses to Trump is if the left loses their collective mind and convinces themselves that Biden is just as bad as Trump.
That isn't going to happen. There are going to be record turnouts for the election in 2020.
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concordtom
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In reply to Genocide Joe 58 • 6:46a, 6/22/19
Yogi Bear said:
calbear93 said:

I am almost certain Biden will win the primary. The only way Biden loses to Trump is if the left loses their collective mind and convinces themselves that Biden is just as bad as Trump.
That isn't going to happen. There are going to be record turnouts for the election in 2020.
Oh yeah!
I hate Trump with as much passion as I've ever hated anyone. Even more.
I would vote 1000 times to get him out of office.
If anyone knows how I can get in on a scheme to do so, please let me know.
(Then call the White House and alert them to said scheme, so that trump can claim the election was rigged and he can declare marshall law to keep him as president indefinitely, which means forever. This would in turn cause someone somewhere to feel the need to assassinate the military dictator - thus, he'd end up dead, finally - hallelujah.)

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concordtom
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 6:47a, 6/22/19
Anarchistbear said:
What do the great unwashed want? The most enduring and provincial trope here.
Who are the great unwashed?

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